[smoothy]

Hey Smoothy and Jake not to keep this going because I agree with you both. BUT...how can she deal with her insecurities with this when he isnt listening.

How can she work on this alone and sit back and watch him continue to bring down her self esteem. Isnt a relationship 50/50. Isnt that whats always preached in these threads?

Why should she struggle through this alone while he just keeps feeding his desires and has no understanding of her feelings?

A fear of water or spiders is one thing to over come. Thats an easy insecurity. When your loved one pushes you more in to that insecurity I think its time it becomes a problem for both, not just her.

If he was berating and belittling her... then he would be responsible for bringing down her self esteme. This however is not happening here.

What if it was because he ignored her to watch football? Or heaven forbid... hanging out with his buddies a few hours?

See where I'm going here?

Her blaming HIM for self esteme issues is trying to offload the blame for an issue she is responsible for. After all... he loves her, comes home everyday to her... doesn't cheat on her... but that's not enough, she expects him to unreasonibly not gaze upon another female... so what's next... force every woman to wear a burka lest he be tempted to look, and she might feel bad that he did? Perhaps take it a step further... sanctioned segregation of males and females in public, like Saudi Arabia.


Actually what is needed here is that she seek counseling as to the real root of her low self esteme, and to work to feel better about herself. What others may think or say doesn't matter as long as one is happy with themselves. It is unrealistic and unreasonible to expect everything and everyone to conform to what YOU want... you have to find your way into the world were others have their own rights and behaviours. Many you may not agree with, others you might.

Two of the most important points to not lose sight of are...

You are responsible for yourself and your own actions and behaviour...

Your rights end where the rights of the next person begins, and vice versa.

[Synnen]

Got to disagree with you Smoothy.

It is JUST as damaging to self esteem to be ignored for football, a video game, ALWAYS hanging out with the buddies over hanging out with you, playing sports, what have you.

Being ignored is being ignored--it doesn't matter if it's porn or shopping or TV or a book. If it happens too often, then YES, it is contributing to low self esteem.

Just ask any woman who's gotten out of an abusive relationship how the self esteem problems start--and I bet they start with him ignoring how she feels on something.

Look--you know I don't have a problem with porn, and I'm not blaming the issue here on porn. If he got up right after sex to watch football it would be AS big a problem. The problem is that he doesn't care how SHE feels about it--and in a relationship, you NEED to take into account another person's feelings. That doesn't mean she gets to demand that he never look at porn--but it DOES mean that he needs to listen to her concerns about it and make compromises. Just like if he had a problem with the fact that she went shopping every day, and got up to go shopping RIGHT after having sex, and ignored his feelings about the fact that HE thinks she has unrealistic expectations about her wardrobe and decorating their house because she shops so much. SHE could say that she's just looking, and that she has no intentions of buying, and she's just enjoying looking at nice things--but do you really think that he's not going to be thinking that she's unsatisfied with what he provides for her if she's constantly looking at nicer things?

It's the job in a marriage to support each other--which means he needs to HELP her with her self-esteem issues, not compound them by ignoring her thoughts on this.

[smoothy]

Gotta disagree with you Smoothy.

It is JUST as damaging to self esteem to be ignored for football, a video game, ALWAYS hanging out with the buddies over hanging out with you, playing sports, what have you.

Being ignored is being ignored--it doesn't matter if it's porn or shopping or TV or a book. If it happens too often, then YES, it is contributing to low self esteem.

Just ask any woman who's gotten out of an abusive relationship how the self esteem problems start--and I bet they start with him ignoring how she feels on something.

Look--you know I don't have a problem with porn, and I'm not blaming the issue here on porn. If he got up right after sex to watch football it would be AS big a problem. The problem is that he doesn't care how SHE feels about it--and in a relationship, you NEED to take into account another person's feelings. That doesn't mean she gets to demand that he never look at porn--but it DOES mean that he needs to listen to her concerns about it and make compromises. Just like if he had a problem with the fact that she went shopping every day, and got up to go shopping RIGHT after having sex, and ignored his feelings about the fact that HE thinks she has unrealistic expectations about her wardrobe and decorating their house because she shops so much. SHE could say that she's just looking, and that she has no intentions of buying, and she's just enjoying looking at nice things--but do you really think that he's not going to be thinking that she's unsatisfied with what he provides for her if she's constantly looking at nicer things?

It's the job in a marriage to support each other--which means he needs to HELP her with her self-esteem issues, not compound them by ignoring her thoughts on this.

Ah... but see, that's my point. She would likely be so clingy that he CAN'T watch TV... or hang out with his man friends at times...

Obviously I'm not saying he camps out on the sports channel or with his buddies EVERY day... all day... (or night). In that case a spouse would have a reason to gripe.


I do see what you are saying Synnen but I have seen and known too many clingy women with no self esteme that gets upset when THEY are not a constant subject and sole subject of attention. What I am saying is in a healthy relationship, each might have a hobby or diversion that doesn't necessarily involve or focus exclusively on the other partner, lest they take offense to not being a subject of obsession.

[Synnen]

But if he camps out EVERY day with porn, that's not as big an issue?

If it's 5 minutes, well... okay then. But it's not usually 5 minutes, is it?

I agree... in a healthy relationship, though, BOUNDARIES are talked about for hobbies and diversions. For example--if her hobby is shopping, then the BOUNDARY might be how much she can spend. If it's scrapbooking, then whatever time she spends on it shouldn't interfere with the time that should be spent on the relationship.

It works both ways.

I like going out for coffee with my friends--but my husband complained one time that I was doing it EVERY night--which left no time for him, except the weekends, which is when I do most our our housework. So my "hobby", even if it was only for an hour each day, was cutting into the time we could spend together, since he gets up earlier than I do and is home from work about 3 hours before I am. I mean, if I'm getting home after my hour out with friends, I could be pulling in the driveway just as he's going to bed.

It has NOTHING to do with WHAT the activity is. It has EVERYTHING to do with not communicating to each other how it's hurting the relationship.

PS--my relationship was nearly lost over a computer game. I tried talking to him, leaving him notes, seducing him with lingerie, starting fights---ANYTHING to get him to notice me instead of the freaking computer. It took me cheating on him to get his attention, that his "hobby" was fine, as long as it wasn't interfering with US---which it was, because he contributed nothing to the relationship except crawling into bed in the wee hours of the morning, whispering "I love you" and trying to start some nookie. That KILLED my self-esteem--I felt like I was only there for HIS convenience, that MY feelings didn't matter as long as he could do what HE wanted to do. So... I'm not saying he shouldn't be able to look at porn. I'm saying that IF he wants to be able to look at porn, he needs to listen to his wife's concerns and work with her to make sure she's confident enough in him to not doubt his affection OTHERWISE.

[smoothy]

But if he camps out EVERY day with porn, that's not as big an issue?

If it's 5 minutes, well....okay then. But it's not usually 5 minutes, is it?

See, that's the rub... there is ZERO indication of him camping out all night every night.

Per the OPs post... its just that he does it at all. And well, I take major issue with that. Because of this simple point. Who appointed her Queen and made him the servant? What ever happened to equality in relationships and adults not be subservant to others?

As a wife she has the right to mention something... not demand or nag about it any more than he does to her about something else.

Respecting your spouse is a lot more about accepting and living with then whining and trying to dictate what they will do, what they can see, who they can talk too etc...

Obviously there is a reasonable area... a grey area... and an over the limit area... but there is zero indications that this has crossed into either of the latter.

[Catsmine]

[QUOTE=smoothy;2089536]See, that's the rub... there is ZERO indication of him camping out all night every night.[QUOTE]

All night every night is an overstatement, but Rockerchick does say that her main concern is wondering will it develop into something that interferes with the relationship. It may be a valid concern.

Some check favorite porn sites just like e-mail, to see if anything new has been posted. If he's one of those there shouldn't be a problem.

Some go straight for the kleenex every time they power up the computer. If he does, then it's time to look for therapists.

Rockerchick, you've said you talked to him about it and he said get used to it. Does he show any other signs of obsession or addiction? Even cigarettes could be a clue.

[smoothy]

All night every night is an overstatement, but Rockerchick does say that her main concern is wondering will it develop into something that interferes with the relationship. It may be a valid concern.

Some check favorite porn sites just like e-mail, to see if anything new has been posted. If he's one of those there shouldn't be a problem.

Some go straight for the kleenex every time they power up the computer. If he does, then it's time to look for therapists.

Rockerchick, you've said you talked to him about it and he said get used to it. Does he show any other signs of obsession or addiction? Even cigarettes could be a clue.

She's creating an issue where none exists.

Classic case of making a mountain out of a molehill. If she actually WANTS to drive a wedge between them in their relationship, she's going to achieve that quite readily.

He's not spending 6 hours a night, spanking the monkey and ignoring her... and that's how some people seem to be responding like that's the case. There was nothing at all posted to indicate that he looks at some nude women on the internet every day for excessive periods. To some women looking at another woman in the grocery store is enough to set them off.


I see this as a passive-agressive behaviour trying to force another adult to give up their free will and freedom under an excuse of "low self esteme".

But we do really need more details about both parties from the OP. We really are having to make a lot of guesses.

[Catsmine]

Several viewpoints here, Rockerchick. Some assumptions, too. Which ones are helpful and which are off-base? I need to hear back before I go any further.

If I don't, good luck.

[Cat1864]

I think this post of rockerchick's has been over-looked:

Jake,

Usually it is in addition to sex. To my knowledge it hasn't extended beyond just looking at pictures and videos.

It's nothing exotic. He likes "real" people and usually looks for amateur stuff. Maybe that's what bothers me about it. That it's women he could be looking at everyday and not some fantasy woman.

I've been mulling this over and I think I may be making more out of it then it is. I masterbate (although I usually wait until he isn't in the house). I don't watch porn to do it because I dont need a visual. I don't think it would be right of me to expect him to never masterbate.

Rockerchick, you have my respect for not sticking your head in the sand and trying to ignore your feelings until a small uncertainty became a huge red flag. Instead, you are facing the concerns and trying to deal with them like a mature adult and not a sulky teenager.

This is (hopefully) very early in your marriage and I hope that you both can learn to effectively communicate your feelings and concerns to each other without worrying that the other person will shut down or dismiss those concerns with the wave of a hand. Ups and downs, disagreements, problems, etc. will occur. How you communicate with each other and work together to solve them will determine just how strong a marriage you are building.

[rockerchick26]

I know that I haven't given a great deal of background information. Maybe because I don't want to drone on forever about the things in my relationship that bother me.

My husband is really independent and I like to think that I am too. I'm in grad school, work, have friends. Still, I realize that I am the needier party in the relationship.

The computer has been an issue our entire relationship. He is basically at it ALL the time. And I am not exaggerating here. He has dozens of non porn internet hobbies. I feel like we have very little interaction. I have tried to talk to him about it in a calm rational way. I usually get the responses "we would do more if we had money" and "i'm happy just to be in the same room together doing separate things."

My reason for going into all this non porn stuff is just to set the stage for the general situation. Every time I voice something that bothers me it always gets twisted into being MY issue or me being irrational. I don't really feel heard or that my feelings are being taken to heart.

Porn is just a part of the bigger picture I guess. It almost feels like the computer is an easy replacement for me. I probably sound nuts rambling on...

I'm thinking marriage counseling might be a good idea.

[Jake2008]

I think this says it all:

I don't really feel heard or that my feelings are being taken to heart.

I think you are wise to seek professional help.

I hope you'll post again Rockerchick, let us all know how you're doing. Best of luck.

[Catsmine]

So the porn viewing is merely a symptom of a larger problem rather than a problem in itself.

Be glad there's only the two of you involved right now. Kids would make this really complicated.

Have you considered non-verbal ways of getting inside his "shell?" Maybe an extended stay with a friend might let him realize what it's like to be alone.

[smoothy]

I know that I haven't given a great deal of background information. Maybe because I don't want to drone on forever about the things in my relationship that bother me.

My husband is really independent and I like to think that I am too. I'm in grad school, work, have friends. Still, I realize that I am the needier party in the relationship.

The computer has been an issue our entire relationship. He is basically at it ALL the time. And I am not exaggerating here. He has dozens of non porn internet hobbies. I feel like we have very little interaction. I have tried to talk to him about it in a calm rational way. I usually get the responses "we would do more if we had money" and "i'm happy just to be in the same room together doing separate things."

My reason for going into all this non porn stuff is just to set the stage for the general situation. Every time I voice something that bothers me it always gets twisted into being MY issue or me being irrational. I don't really feel heard or that my feelings are being taken to heart.

Porn is just a part of the bigger picture I guess. It almost feels like the computer is an easy replacement for me. I probably sound nuts rambling on...

I'm thinking marriage counseling might be a good idea.

Well anytime you put two people together one will be needier than the other... the trick is how much.

If you are still fairly recent newlyweds or living together... you will have the minor push and shove as each finds their niche they will settle into, and there will likely be some friction during that time. A good solid point to remember that will serve anyone that has to share a living space... is to remember that you each have a perspective, you each have your rights and you each have your expectations. And unless you have a strange Dom-Sub relationship you each will want to do things without begging for the others approval.

I'm not saying you can't talk about concerns, it never hurts to talk... but what I AM saying is know when to let something drop after its been brought up.

This can all be summed up in a simple quote "Choose your battles carefully". Or " Take care of the big things and the little things will take care of themselves".

Any couple will have minor conflicts and things that can be an irritant to the other. And if you focus on those points you will be unhappy, and the relationship WILL suffer as a result. But if you step back, realize you each have your own idiosyncrasies and don't hyper focus on the others while ignoring your own... you will find yourself with less stress and happier. Nobody likes being or even feeling dominated in a relationship.

True its not easy to learn, but everyone who has been married a long time will tell you that they have learned it.

I don't have any stats to back it up, and I really don't feel like looking for any. But I think a significant portion of divorces are the results of people that are hypercritical of others while thinking they themselves are perfect. Men and women both.