[seedy]

My 2yr old rescue mastiff/rotti cross is a teddy bear at home with me and my kids, but as soon as he's in public - he's a monster. He wants to attack ALL other dogs and lunges at people, especially children. I have been trying to socialise him for 10 months but don't seem to be getting anywhere. I have used a behaviourist for the last 12months, but to no avail. HELP!!
I don't want people thinking I have a vicious thug of a dog.
PS - I also have a staffi and he is fine with her.

[tickle]

Well, you do a have a thug of a dog if he behaves like that in public, especially around children. He incorporates two breeds that can be very aggressive, not only in public but with people visiting a home that they don't know. Its too bad that his previous owner/owners didn't do the right thing by him. You are to be commended for taking on a dog like this, especially hving a staffi already in residence. It could have turned out much worse. Some dogs can't be rehabilitated.

Cesaro Milan has some pretty good videos about re-training, and I actually think he is the best ever with dogs. If I find a link I will edit this post, or you can Google his name and visit his website for more excellent information. Good luck !

Tick

[Catsmine]

You have a very scared pup there. Was he abandoned or taken? I have had good results with breaking the lunging habit with a noise distraction.

This "behaviorist" has been working with you for a YEAR? Has any progress at all been made? How often do you see them and how much practice between sessions do you do?

[shazamataz]

It may be something that will always be with him.
My mom recently had to send a pup back to the breeder because he was fine at home, he played with her other dogs and us but as soon as he went out and saw new people he would attack them out of fear.
She worked so hard with that pup, outings and training for hours every day but he only got worse.

If you have been working with a professional for a year now I can't see him getting any better...
It might be outings to secluded places or just staying at home for this one.

[Aurora_Bell]

I recently had to put down a bull mastif shepard with serious aggression issues. He to was a perfect gentel man when in the home but as soon as some one came to the door, walked by the house, or we were in public, he would act like a lunatic. Aggression isn't something that a dog nesseccarly becomes, it's genetics. If you have been working with a behaviorist for a year and your dog still has aggression issues, you may want to consider a different approach. And most of all you need to be so careful with young ones in a house with a scared, and or angry dog.

[tickle]

I recently had to put down a bull mastif shepard with serious aggression issues. He to was a perfect gentel man when in the home but as soon as some one came to the door, walked by the house, or we were in public, he would act like a lunatic. Aggression isn't some thing that a dog nesseccarly becomes, it's genetics. If you have been working with a behaviorist for a year and your dog still has aggression issues, you may want to consider a different approach. And most of all you need to be so careful with young ones in a house with a scared, and or angry dog.

I have actually heard of two other instances where these breeds, bull mastiffs, mixed with whatever, which appears to enhance their aggression, being put down because nothing else could be done and the people were just too afraid of handling him, trying again and again to rehabilitate the dog and of course, like you say, Aurora, home and out were just not an option.

Bull mastiffs the pure breed, are really not too bad but need a firm hand to control, but need not be aggressive. That is a big dog to handle.

Tick

[Aurora_Bell]

Agreed. In Canada, if you give away a aggressive dog, and that dog bites someone, the original owner of the animal can get charged with criminal neglect and could be held accountable for whatever the out come of the bite was. I wonder if it is something in the Mastif breed that just can not handle a "mix" I know several people who have pure bred bull mastif's and they are truly gentel giants! Very friendly dogs. But they are very possessive and like you said need a strong hand in controlling them. I even lived in the country but when I spoke to a rescue group ( I tried every other option before putting him down) They said, that if a child can not approach your door step out of fear of being bitten, then the dog needs to go. It is law that a child needs to have a safe walk way to a FRONT and BACK door, in case of being chased by person or animal.

[JudyKayTee]

Agreed. In Canada, if you give away a aggressive dog, and that dog bites someone, the original owner of the animal can get charged with criminal neglect and could be held accountable for whatever the out come of the bite was. I wonder if it is something in the Mastif breed that just can not handle a "mix" I know several people who have pure bred bull mastif's and they are truly gentel giants! Very friendly dogs. But they are very possessive and like you said need a strong hand in controlling them. I even lived in the country but when I spoke to a rescue group ( I tried every other option before putting him down) They said, that if a child can not approach your door step out of fear of being bitten, then the dog needs to go. It is law that a child needs to have a safe walk way to a FRONT and BACK door, in case of being chased by person or animal.

I'm a liability investigator and I've never heard of the law about previous owners - do you have a source? I realize you are talking about criminal law and I investigate civil actions but I would like it for reference purposes.

I'm also involved in animal rescue and, in fact, have had dogs given to me or "adopted" by me after surrender by the previous owners and never had a problem. It appears to be unfair to the animals if the only choice by some sort of law is to put the animal down in order to avoid liability for any future behavior. I see all sorts of legal problems when a person adopts ANY dog if this is law.

In NY (which is where I am) vicious propensities enter into a liability investigation. Aggressiveness is something else, not considered, so I am interested for that aspect, too.

I have also never heard the "front door/back door" rule/law and would like a source for that.

I investigate a lot of dog bites - the worse one I have ever seen was an attack by an Akita (just for the record).

[shazamataz]

As much as I love my dogs and as much as everyone is going to hate me for this I would rather see an aggressive dog put to sleep than risk a child being bitten.

It's not the dogs fault that it was aggressive, it's either in it genetics or caused by the owner but... it's not something that can be 'trained' out of them 90% of the time.

[Catsmine]

You have a point, Shaz. Tempramental instability is one of the (2) reasons I am so vehemently against "designer dogs." The other is re-introducing medical problems pure breed owners have worked long and hard to eradicate.

Seedy, think seriously about neutering if he isn't already, then look at maybe having to find another dog. I always hate to say that, but sometimes the human children have to take precedence.

[Aurora_Bell]

Judy, I was told all of this information by a local animal control officer, who was called to my house by a friendly neighbour. Like I said my dog would bark like a lunatic at any thing that passed the house. My neighbours complained that my dog was using the bathroom too close to their yard and when they would come out side he would bark at them. I am not trying to 'downplay' the situation, because it was very serious, and even though he was neuthered he became more aggressive with each day. When she came to my house, she said that if she can not safely make it to my front door step, then she would have the right to 'put him down' her self. I too tried obeidience classes as well as spent a small fortune on an animal behaviourist who in turn told me I should think about getting my boy put down. I called the German Shepard Rescue of Nova Scotia, who told me that they were not allowed to adopt or 'rescue' any animal with aggression issues. And then went into the long drawn out story of how I could be held liable for his actions with a new owner. The lady from animal control seccond this, and told me about the front/back door. I am looking at my county's by laws to see if there is anything I can reference for you, I will post later today if something is found.

[tickle]

. When she came to my house, she said that if she can not safely make it to my front door step, then she would have the right to 'put him down' her self. I too tried obeidience classes as well as spent a small fortune on an animal behaviourist .

Hi Aurora, the claim your neighbour made here is suspect. If this were the case, then any postal worker would be able to 'put your dog down' unbidden. I don't think that is a law, per se, IMO.

Tick

[Aurora_Bell]

Am I allowed to copy and paste somethiong from my counties bylaws?

[JudyKayTee]

Got to agree with "Tickle" - these sound like words intended to scare people into compliance. Maybe it's a policy, maybe it's a rule of thumb but I think you were misled.

Just from a legal standpoint - I DO understand why rescues won't take dogs that appear to be vicious (or proved themselves to be vicious). I also know that I investigate any number of dog bites where the first owner lied to the second about the history because if the truth were told the dog would be euthanized and not adopted.

A strict "if the dog proves to be vicious" law would cause EVERY rescue to refuse to re-home EVERY dog because of liability issues - my dog bites, I get sued, I point a finger at the previous owner, he/she gets sued.

I think the Dog Warden made it up as he went along.

[tickle]

Am I allowed to copy and paste somethiong from my counties bylaws?

Yes, of course, it will substantiate, if possible, for Judy. Or, you can offer a website.

Tick

[Aurora_Bell]

I don't know if I am allowed topost this, so I willunderstand if it gets removed. This is from my counties dog bylaws.

Municipal Staff may, without notice to or complaint against the owner, kill on sight or
After capture any dog that:
(a) is fierce or dangerous;
(b) is rabid or exhibits symptoms of canine madness.
25. Municipal Staff may, after two written warnings have been given to the owner that a dog
Has been running at large or eluding capture, kill such dog on sight of after capture.
26. Municipal Staff may, kill on sight any dog that is running at large and which the Dog
Control Officer believes, on reasonable and probable grounds, to pose a danger to a
Person or a domestic animal or to property of persons other than the owner.

She also told me that even if my dog is tied in the yard and she can not obtain control over him then she can put him down. As this is considered running at large. I did have some problems with the neighbours, I was in the process of buying a piece of land, and I was unable to move to that piece of land until spring or early summer, so I was staying in a small rural community, there was a large green belt behind my house where I would take my dog to run and play, they would call animal control and tell them that my dog was running at large and they were terrified to leave their houses. Of course non of this was expressed directly to me, and I was surpised when she came to my home with my "first" warning. She said if my neighbours called again to complain about him beig out side or barking that was my seccond warning.

[JudyKayTee]

I don't doubt what you have posted.

It's pretty much the same here (I'm in NY State). If a dog is tied or chained and extremely aggressive or dangerous a homeowner can be warned and eventually (usually by Court Order) the dog can be seized and euthanized.

In theory a Dog Warden (Animal Control Officer) is trained and can spot a dangerous dog. In practice I have found in my community these are political appointees who like to wear uniforms and ride around in Town vehicles.

At any rate I continue to question the previous owner being automatically liable as well as the whole "sidewalk," front and back part.

I realize you can only find what you can find based on what you've been told and I have a nagging feeling you may have been "taken."

[Aurora_Bell]

Well I am starting to think that as well, I have the web site, and I really want to email the animal control officer, but we recently had some words after my dog was put down. I do not think she would respond to me any ways.:(
I am still looking, and have been googling, and unfortuantly I have not come up with much.

[JudyKayTee]

I am honestly sincere here - this is one of those situations where I wish I lived closer to you. I would LOVE to be assigned something like this. I would LOVE it!

[Aurora_Bell]

Well in that case then I wish you lived closer too!

This the web site if any one wants to have a look as well.
http://www.colchester.ca/animal-control