Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?

DrJ · Nov 3, 2006, 11:32 AM

The King James version of the Bible is said to be the most accurate translation of the Bible to date. This version of the Bible translates these words said by Jesus in the ninth hour of His crucifixion as "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me."

Forsake: to renounce or turn away from entirely, abandon.

Jesus knew that he was being betrayed, and could have easily gone into hiding rather than being captured, but he did not. Rather than run or hide, Jesus went peacefully and lovingly into the hands of his captors knowing that he would be crucified. Jesus knew exactly what was happening. He knew of his impending death. .

So why, in His last hours, did Jesus say this? Why express this self-pity, something He taught against so adamantly?

RickJ · Nov 3, 2006, 11:40 AM

First: Query 100 textual scholars and a majority will NOT say that the KJV is the most accurate. But that is beside the point since most versions word that passage so similarly.

To answer the question: He said that because he was fully human. Any human hanging on a cross might feel like God has forsaken him.

Now just to anticipate a question I might have begged. Yes, I do believe in the traditional Christian doctrine that He was BOTH fully human AND fully divine.

DrJ · Nov 3, 2006, 11:55 AM

So then you are saying that Jesus faulted?

Crucifixions happened quote a bit... I could understand any other human crucified may feel that way... but wasn't He the Holy Son of God? He KNEW exactly what was going to happen. Why would He feel this way?

This was supposed to be HIS PURPOSE ON THIS EARTH. It sounds like Jesus didn't feel the same way.

RickJ · Nov 3, 2006, 12:14 PM

I wish I could offer something professiorial sounding here, but I can't. You are speaking of one of the most, if not THE most, mysterious of Christian doctrines.

This is the "dual nature of Christ", which can be stated and discussed at length (and has been for 2000 years) but cannot be "defined" in words humans can imagine.

After literally centuries of debate and vague language, the Council of Chalcedon, in 451, declared that Christ, though one person, exhibited two natures "without confusion, without change, without division, without separation": so both fully God and fully human.

Despite that we just cannot fully comprehend it, it's the doctrine that's accepted by most Christians today, Catholic and Protestant alike.

Starman · Nov 3, 2006, 11:20 PM

He felt the weight of our sins on his shoulders and cried out in our behalf.

Excerpt:

"Yet all the griefs he felt were ours,

Ours were the woes he bore;

Pangs, not his own, his spotless soul

With bitter anguish tore.

"We held him as condemn'd of heaven,

An outcast from his God;

While for our sins he groaned, he bled,

Beneath his Father's rod."

http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/2133.htm

Fr_Chuck · Nov 4, 2006, 08:58 AM

Well of course as agreed, the King James if not nearly the best translation version. But with that said,

The thought behind it, is that Christ had to take all the sin, ( every sin that man could and would commit) upon hisself at the cross and defeat it for us. Part of that would be the felling of complete separation from God.
As full man and full God, he indeed had to feel the separation that man often feels from God. That felling had to be almost more than he could bear.

dre4real · Jun 22, 2007, 09:47 AM

First you need to understand that what kept Jesus on that cross was not the nails, it was His love for us. He could have come down from there if He wanted to. But remember in the garden (Gethsemane), HE prayed to the Father asking if there was any other way to bring His children back to Him. (John 17) He experienced unanswered prayer so we don't have to. Jesus had to take upon Himself everything that we desserved. Actually, Jesus had to become our sin by faith. Can u imagine that! The Father had to take His eyes off His beloved son because of all known and unknown sin laid upon Him. Scripture actually says that it pleased God to see the wages of sin being paid for by death. Jesus died a spiritual death (seperation) from the Father because He had to be the first man to be born again, and break the curse on the bloodline. Amen

ActionJackson · Jun 22, 2007, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by DrJizzle

So then you are saying that Jesus faulted?
Crucifixions happened quote a bit... I could understand any other human crucified may feel that way... but wasn't He the Holy Son of God? He KNEW exactly what was going to happen. Why would He feel this way?
This was supposed to be HIS PURPOSE ON THIS EARTH. It sounds like Jesus didnt feel the same way.

Once again, Christ was giving divine authority to the Old Testament, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Why are Thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?" Psalms 22:1 He was quoting His ancestor, King David. He, being 100% man and 100% God, was expressing His manhood at that moment. He was sacrificing His body for the sins of an entire world for many generations past, present, and future.

At a point just prior to His crucifixion, He expressed more of His feelings of manhood, "Then saith He unto them, 'My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with Me.' And He went a little farther, and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, 'O My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from Me: nevertheless not as I will, but as Thou wilt.'" Matthew 26:38-39. Christ, in His manhood, had and understood the emotions of mankind. If He laughed and cried; if he showed anger and sorrow; then it comes as no surprise that He experienced fear; however, He showed, by example, that we can overcome our fears. A lesson that Peter and the other Apostles learned in subsequent years.

Tessy777 · Jun 22, 2007, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by ActionJackson

Once again, Christ was giving divine authority to the Old Testament, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Why are Thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?" Psalms 22:1 He was quoting His ancestor, King David. He, being 100% man and 100% God, was expressing His manhood at that moment. He was sacrificing His body for the sins of an entire world for many generations past, present, and future.

At a point just prior to His crucifixion, He expressed more of His feelings of manhood, "Then saith He unto them, 'My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with Me.' And He went a little farther, and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, 'O My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from Me: nevertheless not as I will, but as Thou wilt.'" Matthew 26:38-39. Christ, in His manhood, had and understood the emotions of mankind. If He laughed and cried; if he showed anger and sorrow; then it comes as no surprise that He experienced fear; however, He showed, by example, that we can overcome our fears. A lesson that Peter and the other Apostles learned in subsequent years.

AJ,

Couldn't have said it better myself... you done good.

ActionJackson · Jun 22, 2007, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by Tessy777

AJ,

couldn't have said it better myself...you done good.

Thanks but I done nothing... Christ done it all. What a wretch I was before He saved me and what a wretch I would still be without Him. The non-believers can poke and prod and nitpik but one thing they can not deny is the power that Jesus Christ has had in the lives who those who have truly accepted Him.

They come in to the Christian forums to disrupt and to spew their personal brand of venom but they CAN'T take His influence away from any of us (Christians). They literally hate that fact.

Christ suffered an agonizing death for them as well but, for some unknown reason, they currently choose death over everlasting life.

firmbeliever · Jul 23, 2007, 12:51 PM

004.157
"That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-"

005.116
"And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden."

003.055
" Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute."
---------

The above are verses taken from the Quran and we muslims believe that Jesus/Easa alaihi salaam was a full mortal, but he did not die nor was he killed but we believe he was taken up to the Almighty and he will return towards the end of the world and put right the doubts people have of him and also we believe that he will live the life of a mortal and die a natural death.

Hope this puts your question into a new light, a different perspective with new information.:) :)