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arcura · Apr 6, 2009, 10:47 PM

Th3,
SEE...
There you are with your negativeness.
If you have no positive answer to my request you are not addressing the topic which calls for evidence FOR asking saints to pray for us or others.

450donn · Apr 7, 2009, 05:54 AM

Fred, you have been answered so many times it is not even funny any more
THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS... N O N E!!

arcura · Apr 7, 2009, 07:16 PM

450donn,
Sorry donn, that is incorrect.
The post I have received FOR show that so far.
Fred

Tj3 · Apr 7, 2009, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

450donn,
Sorry donn, that is incorrect.
The post I have received FOR show that so far.
Fred

It makes one wonder why someone would ask a question and then decide that they will only listen to those who say what they wanted to hear to begin with.

arcura · Apr 7, 2009, 09:02 PM

I listen to what I asked for NOT what I didn't.

Tj3 · Apr 7, 2009, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

I listen to what I asked for NOT what I didn't.

That's what I said.

arcura · Apr 7, 2009, 09:31 PM

Please stay ON the topic of evidence FOR, nothing else.
Fred

Wondergirl · Apr 7, 2009, 09:44 PM

Really, think about it. What's the worst that could happen if you do ask those who died in Christ to pray for you? Some think those spirits are sleeping until the Last Day, so then they wouldn't hear you. If they are indeed awake in heaven, God might be keeping them so busy that they don't notice you down on earth or maybe don't even hear you. Meanwhile, you have earthly saints praying for you and, of course, you are petitioning God. And if the saints in heaven hear you and pray to God for you, that's great! I don't see a problem.

arcura · Apr 7, 2009, 09:52 PM

Wondergirl,
You have made some good points with that.
Thanks,
Fred

Wondergirl · Apr 7, 2009, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

Wondergirl,
You have made some good points with that.
Thanks,
Fred

I was the first grandchild on both sides of the family. I'm sure all four grandparents are in heaven, and they would be the first in line (after my father) to say a prayer for me, since they all did so and often when they were on earth. It's actually a sweet, loving thing to do.

Tj3 · Apr 7, 2009, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Really, think about it. What's the worst that could happen if you do ask those who died in Christ to pray for you?

We have one example in scripture of someone who did exactly that, and we see the judgment brought against him:

1 Sam 28:15-19
16 Then Samuel said: "Why then do you ask me, seeing the LORD has departed from you and has become your enemy? 17 And the LORD has done for Himself as He spoke by me. For the LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David. 18 Because you did not obey the voice of the LORD nor execute His fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore the LORD has done this thing to you this day. 19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines. And tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The LORD will also deliver the army of Israel into the hand of the Philistines."
NKJV

Wondergirl · Apr 7, 2009, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by Tj3

We have one example in scripture of someone who did exactly that, and we see the judgment brought against him

Oh, tweedle dee dee! I'm not afraid of some old Philistines!

(And that had nothing to do with asking saints in heaven to intercede.)

Tj3 · Apr 7, 2009, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Oh, tweedle dee dee! I'm not afraid of some old Philistines!

(And that had nothing to do with asking saints in heaven to intercede.)

It had everything to do with asking a saint in heaven. Scripture identifies the issue:

1 Sam 28:15
15 Now Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"
NKJV

1 Sam 28:16
16 Then Samuel said: "Why then do you ask me, seeing the LORD has departed from you and has become your enemy?
NKJV

You need not fear the Philistines, but Fear Him who warned against calling up the dead. The Philistines did not succed because of their strength, but because of the disobedience against God by Saul.

Wondergirl · Apr 7, 2009, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by Tj3

It had everything to do with asking a saint in heaven. Scripture identifies the issue:

1 Sam 28:15
15 Now Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"
NKJV

1 Sam 28:16
16 Then Samuel said: "Why then do you ask me, seeing the LORD has departed from you and has become your enemy?
NKJV

You need not fear the Philistines, but Fear Him who warned against calling up the dead. The Philistines did not succed because of their strength, but because of the disobedience against God by Saul.

Tsk, tsk. The Lord hasn't departed from me. And look who was calling Samuel (who is alive in heaven).

Tj3 · Apr 7, 2009, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Tsk, tsk. The Lord hasn't departed from me. And look who was calling Samuel (who is alive in heaven).

Well, you hope that the Lord has not departed from you. I cannot comment one way or another on your specifics, but clearly God does not take well to people committing what He called an abomination (in Deut) by speaking those who died in the flesh (which includes Samuel)

Wondergirl · Apr 7, 2009, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by Tj3

Well, you hope that the Lord has not departed from you. I cannot comment one way or another on your specifics, but clearly God does not take well to people committing what He called an abomination (in Deut) by speaking those who died in the flesh (which includes Samuel)

He hasn't departed from me. That I know with all my heart.

arcura · Apr 7, 2009, 10:41 PM

Wondergirl,
Yes it is a sweet loving thing to do.
Just as Jesus prayed for us while here with us on earth.
I think the saints in heaven are more the willing to pray for the saints on earth for they all are loving beings.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Tj3 · Apr 8, 2009, 06:10 AM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

He hasn't departed from me. That I know with all my heart.

Good - well don't go committing any acts that He calls abominations like speaking to those who are dead in the flesh! :)

Tj3 · Apr 8, 2009, 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by arcura

I think the saints in heaven are more the willing to pray for the saints on earth for they all are loving beings.

They are in heaven because they love the Lord. Would they want us to commit a sin of trying to communicate with them? I don't think so.

450donn · Apr 8, 2009, 08:22 AM

This and Fred's last identical question reminds me of the story in Mark 10. That is one of the reasons I have simply given up on those that refuse to believe what the Word has to say on this subject!