[lizzybethann]

No one, me included, would volunteer to work on this case without knowing the charges and without speaking to the PD's office. No one knows what proof the "other side" has or what is involved here. Some of these matters are best left alone - at the advice of the PD - because anything which is NOT helpful MUST be turned over and I've seen people destroy their own cases with "bad" witnesses.

I realize the need for privacy and I am not asking you to reveal anything - I am just explaining how this works.

OOOO, OK... I understand what you are saying. Stepping lightly...

If you are in a position to help, and would be willing to look into it, I would ask that we pursue this option further. Is there some way I could get your credentials, and get permission from the P.D. to speak with you privately, or in conjunction with their office, so everything is on the level?

We have been told that corroboration is not needed for conviction, and that evidence does not need to be disclosed until the day of the trial. My son maintains his absolute innocence. He just needs a fair investigation, so that he may be better prepared to defend himself.

Im going to see how the next few days/weeks goes, and get an idea of where things are headed. Regroup, and visit with my son... Ill keep checking here and keep in touch...

Thanks a bunch to you all... I am glad to have found this site... People, helping people... are the luckiest people, in the world... haha, but seriously... Blessings and thanks

[diva25]

First of all a public defender works with the state so there not going to help u like a paid lawyer,the best is try to come up with the money to get better results!

I need some direction, key phrases and terminology to use to be effective in geting my sons over-scheduled, somewhat jaded public defender to make some effort to build a defense case for my son.

My 18 y/o. son has been accused of a crime, in Wayne County, Upstate NY, which carries a 10 year to life sentence.

My son has been in jail for 29 days, waiting for a trial. We have given the Public defender names of possible alibi's, and other information which we feel will help put holes in the prosecutions story.

We met with the Public defender today, after a bail reduction hearing proved to be unsuccessful. I asked him how the investigation is going, and he said that alibi testimony is not very reliable, and that the investigators have not even spoken to the possible witness. We have been told not to talk to anyone, and have complied.

When I was finally able to pin him down and ask why, the investigation has not even started, a month after the arraignment, he blatantly stated, "There is no reason, I am just very busy".
He also stated that he is having a, "hard time dealing with this case," because he just had a similar case and the man was convicted with no evidence.


Is there a document out there which dictates specific responsibilities of the public defenders office? And possible consequences for inappropriate defense?

How can I get these people to take my sons case seriously?

We can not afford a paid lawyer, even though that is exactly what he needs - in this life and death case for an 18 year old young man.

I pray that someone out there has the information that I need to advocate for my son.

Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions,
Blessings,
Elizabeth

[lizzybethann]

I think we got some good news, we'll see where it goes.

I sent the letter, (I revised it a bit, and took out some non-essential sentences - short and sweet) via USPS, and the same day forwarded a copy of the same - via email, to the P.D. to give him a heads up. He responded positively, and asked me for permission to forward the email to his boss. Well, the boss called my husband on his cell at 7pm that night, to let us know that he is on the case, and had already scheduled interviews with 3 defense witnesses for the next day.

Praise God. Blessings to all. Ill keep in touch

[lizzybethann]

Update: I just got a call from my son, in jail 38 days now, awaiting trial. He reported to me that there was a physical attack, perpetrated on him, by a guard at the jail - a C.O.

Apparently this is what happened:

My son was in his cell with the door locked, and a guard (my son does not know his name) came and opened the door, and said to my son, "So you think you're a tough guy, hey?"

My son said, "No, I do not think I am a tough guy."

The guard told my son to sit down, and my son complied...

The guard told my son to take off his shirt, and my son complied. (why would the guard do this?)

The guard proceeded to punch my son in the head repeatedly, and then he choked my son to the point that he felt like he was going to pass out and was seeing stars.

The attack was reported and papers were filed. Pictures were taken and my son went to the nurse, for treatment and documentation.

There are multiple "goose eggs" on the back of my son head, and hand prints on both sides of his neck. My son is sick about this, and swears that he did not even say a word to defend himself, nor did he take any physical action to defend himself. This was a blatant, unprovoked attack.

My son stated that Sgt. XXX, and Sgt. XXX were very receptive to his complaint, and one of them even stated that, "This kind of behavior is not acceptable from a C.O." They also stated that they would take care of the situation. There is also a Lieutenant, who was very receptive, but my son did not know his name. My son did not receive a "write up" or any other reprimand regarding this incident.

My sons P.D. received news of this incident from me, in an email. He went directly to the jail, and took his own pictures, and talked to my son. He confirmed that what my son said was true.

I am going to look into weather the ACLU or any other advocacy group would be willing to get involved with the case. Any help on that would be greatly appreciated. I am absolutely outraged. My son is maintaining his composure, but why should he have to deal with this, while he is trying to build a defense? I just wonder how they can get away with this… Im sick about it…

I need some direction, key phrases and terminology to use to be effective in geting my sons over-scheduled, somewhat jaded public defender to make some effort to build a defense case for my son.

My 18 y/o. son has been accused of a crime, in Wayne County, Upstate NY, which carries a 10 year to life sentence.

My son has been in jail for 29 days, waiting for a trial. We have given the Public defender names of possible alibi's, and other information which we feel will help put holes in the prosecutions story.

We met with the Public defender today, after a bail reduction hearing proved to be unsuccessful. I asked him how the investigation is going, and he said that alibi testimony is not very reliable, and that the investigators have not even spoken to the possible witness. We have been told not to talk to anyone, and have complied.

When I was finally able to pin him down and ask why, the investigation has not even started, a month after the arraignment, he blatantly stated, "There is no reason, I am just very busy".
He also stated that he is having a, "hard time dealing with this case," because he just had a similar case and the man was convicted with no evidence.


Is there a document out there which dictates specific responsibilities of the public defenders office? And possible consequences for inappropriate defense?

How can I get these people to take my sons case seriously?

We can not afford a paid lawyer, even though that is exactly what he needs - in this life and death case for an 18 year old young man.

I pray that someone out there has the information that I need to advocate for my son.

Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions,
Blessings,
Elizabeth

[excon]

I am going to look into weather the ACLU or any other advocacy group would be willing to get involved with the case. I am absolutely outraged.

Hello again, liz:

I understand your outrage. I caution you, however, to focus your outrage where it will do the most good. I further suggest that you recognize that the people who are in charge of your sons well being aren't very nice people. They're not fair. They're mean, and they don't care about your outrage.

Plus, it doesn't appear that your son knows how to deal with his surroundings. He's the one who may take the brunt of your outrage... He CAN be victimized.

Now, please don't think for a minute that I believe you should lay down for these people... But, I also don't believe the cop beat your son up just because he had nothing else to do. SOMETHING happened to provoke it.

As difficult as it is, your son needs to learn how to cope with his environment or he could get hurt. Complaining about it could have deleterious consequences.

excon

[lizzybethann]

Hello again, liz:

I understand your outrage. I caution you, however, to focus your outrage where it will do the most good. I further suggest that you recognize that the people who are in charge of your sons well being aren't very nice people. They're not fair. They're mean, and they don't care about your outrage.

Plus, it doesn't appear that your son knows how to deal with his surroundings. He's the one who may take the brunt of your outrage.... He CAN be victimized.

Now, please don't think for a minute that I believe you should lay down for these people... But, I also don't believe the cop beat your son up just because he had nothing else to do. SOMETHING happened to provoke it.

As difficult as it is, your son needs to learn how to cope with his environment or he could get hurt. Complaining about it could have deleterious consequences.

excon

All due respect, excon, but you do not understand my outrage - you do not understand the situation at all. Just because I am outraged, doe not mean that I am going to fly off the handle and do something stupid. I am wise beyond my years, and have a basic understanding of how things work in the real world. Just because I am a spiritual person, and a mother, does not mean that I am an idiot who would start pointing fingers and put my son at further risk... so lets get that out of the way right now...

You constantly jump to assumptions without exploring all possibilities - the ones beyond your personal experience.

I, like you, also believe that the guard did not beat up my son for no reason, but it was not anything my son did, it is a reason beyond our scope of our understanding, right now...

The fact is that he has already been victimized, and the jail staff already admitted it to the P.D. They have taken full responsibility - I don't know how to express this fact to you, in a way that you will understand it.

I would never complain to anyone in the jail, I am not stipid, and would never put my son at risk that way... But, I also know that he needed to see his lawyer, after it happened, and have the incident documented by the P.D. office.

You say, "please don't think for a minute that I believe you should lay down for these people..." Well, stop telling me what NOT to do and suggest something proactive, and positive that I can do to advocate for my son.
... no disrespect intended...
Blessings...

[JudyKayTee]

I'm going to walk the middle of the road here - I understand the outrage of a mother. I understand what Excon (who knows the system) is saying. There is some reason why out of ALL the prisoners the guard is taking things out on your son. I think the more of a commotion you cause the more things will be taken out on him in the future. The squeeky wheel does not necessarily get the most oil.

Again - I respect your request for privacy and your not wanting to post the details of this case BUT your son is facing some very heavy time and I question what the charges are. Violence by personnel against prisoners in MY area (and it's certainly not the same all over the country) is reserved for child molesters, woman beaters.

I know you are a mother and you are hurting and I am NOT saying your son is in one of those categories. I am saying that without knowing more about the charges it is difficult to understand the treatment he is receiving and has received.

[excon]

I would never complain to anyone in the jail, I am not stipid, and would never put my son at risk that way... But, I also know that he needed to see his lawyer, after it happened, and have the incident documented by the P.D. office.

The The attack was reported and papers were filed. Pictures were taken and my son went to the nurse, for treatment and documentation.

Hello again, lizz:

I'm beginning to see what the problem is.

excon

[lizzybethann]

I'm going to walk the middle of the road here - I understand the outrage of a mother. I understand what Excon (who knows the system) is saying. There is some reason why out of ALL the prisoners the guard is taking things out on your son. I think the more of a commotion you cause the more things will be taken out on him in the future. The squeeky wheel does not necessarily get the most oil.

Again - I respect your request for privacy and your not wanting to post the details of this case BUT your son is facing some very heavy time and I question what the charges are. Violence by personnel against prisoners in MY area (and it's certainly not the same all over the country) is reserved for child molesters, woman beaters.

I know you are a mother and you are hurting and I am NOT saying your son is in one of those categories. I am saying that without knowing more about the charges it is difficult to understand the treatment he is receiving and has received.

Again, I have to say, I have caused NO commotion, I am not a sqweeky wheel... I am simply asking questions. I have spoken to no one about his, except for the P.D. I am aware of the risks, and that is why I am asking about what/if any, would be an appropriate reaction. AGAIN! I have done nothing - My son has done nothing! This was an isolated incident,. a test of his character, so to speak, and he passed... he did not report it, he did not file charges, he did not even fight back... he did exactly what he should have done - he is no punk... and I am proud of how he is dealing with this joke of a justice system... which exists in MY area and yours...

Yall' may have seen so much, that it just does not effect you any longer. But, let me tell you people, we are fighting a just fight, with patience and passion... with the universal power to guide us. This is opportunity for lessons to be learned, for all involved - nothing more, nothing less.

If I told you that my son was accused of beating a woman, or stealing a loaf of bread, or pissing on a cop - What the F*** is the difference? (excuse my language) He is accused, not convicted! Would your response be any different? The charges do not have any bearing on weather or not you deserve being beaten for no reason, while waiting for trial, in the United States of America. Like Ive said before, I believe that we all need to live by a higher standard of brotherhood in humanity, and realize that every single person who's rights are neglected, deserves a person who is willing to stand by them and let them know that what happened was wrong, and that the universe assures us that - what goes around comes around... no squeeky wheels involved - just the natural order of things. We do not need or want simple payback, we will settle for nothing less than justice.

Again, no disrespect intended... I just don't think that we are on the same page...
Blessings and sincere thanks to all -

[lizzybethann]

hello again, lizz:

I'm beginning to see what the problem is.

excon

?
?
?

[excon]

I would never complain to anyone in the jail, I am not stipid, and would never put my son at risk that way... But, I also know that he needed to see his lawyer, after it happened, and have the incident documented by the P.D. office.

The The attack was reported and papers were filed. Pictures were taken and my son went to the nurse, for treatment and documentation.

?
?
?

Hello for the last time, lizz:

In your top quote, you say that you would NEVER complain and put your son at risk...

In your middle quote, you tell us that you complained.

In your bottom quote, you look confused. I understand why.

excon

[lizzybethann]

Hello for the last time, lizz:

In your top quote, you say that you would NEVER complain and put your son at risk...

In your middle quote, you tell us that you complained.

In your bottom quote, you look confused. I understand why.

excon

Ok, allow me to clarify.. even if for the last time...

I did not complain to anyone, neither did my son. A different guard walked in on the deal and reported it... it was totally out of my sons hands. I never said that I complained...

All I did was contact my sons attorney... who is very receptive to my contact, and has not shown any resentment or resistance to my involvement. Are you saying that my telling the lawyer about the incident, qualifies as complaining to the jail or being a squeeky wheel?

My question marks in my las post... are simply asking you what you "see"... as you only stated that you "see". I am not confused, whatsoever. I was asking you to follow up with your statement...

[JudyKayTee]

I think it's time to close this - it's a public debate, not a legal question.

I see no point in continuing.