[harum]

The theory of evolution is a well established and elegant theory developed from an extensive body of data. It is a convenient and fruitful paradigm and a reference frame for the field of biology. Before one starts critically thinking about the subject, one has to know well beyond the basics. Why don't all those people also attack the big bang theory? Is it because it is beyond their education level? Why is evolution theory taken so personally by all those people?

[Tj3]

The theory of evolution is a well established and elegant theory developed from an extensive body of data. It is a convenient and fruitful paradigm and a reference frame for the field of biology. Before one starts critically thinking about the subject, one has to know well beyond the basics.

I have a degree in science, I am an engineer, a senior member of the IEEE, and have studied evolution and creation most of my life. I used to be an evolutionist, but having studied it, the facts forced me to reject evolution as not being a viable theory.

But I note that you did not answer the question. You claimed that the majority of YECs accept evolution. What is the source for this claim?

[harum]

Well, how do you study creationism? :) That's beyond my understanding. Do you find more evidence that whoever created the planet first made dinosaurs, then killed them, then created humans? I have no idea what YEC is. You don't have to answer my question though, just being sarcastic. You have a degree and can afford critical thinking, but 12 year olds cannot (yet).

[arcura]

harum,
I believe in both creation and some forms of evolution.
God created life and all else that is seen and unseen.
The parts of evolution I do not believe in are those which conflict with that belief.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[harum]

harum,
I believe in both creation and some forms of evolution.
God created life and all else that is seen and unseen.
The parts of evolution I do not believe in are those which conflict with that belief.

To say that God created humans means pretty much nothing. You just substitute one word with another not explaining anything. The evolution theory goes beyond this. It introduces new concepts and actually attempts to trace the history of life, from ecosystems down to molecular level. Again, I am not sure believing in something is an argument in favor or against it.

[arcura]

Harum.
Of that is what you believe, that what I believe is nothing, that is your right to do so.
I, however, do not believe that what you believe is nothing.
You are a valuable human being to me and I believe also to God.
So what you think and believe is of interest even though I may not agree with some of that.
Part of what you believe about evolution I also believe.
I believe evolution was a big part of God's planned design for the universe to become what we see of it today.
I am very comfortable with that belief. It explains much to me.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[harum]

Of that is what you believe, that what I believe is nothing, that is your right to do so.
I, however, do not believe that what you believe is nothing.
You are a valuable human being to me and I believe also to God.
So what you think and believe is of interest even though I may not agree with some of that.
Part of what you believe about evolution I also believe.

:) I am saying that you can stay comfortable, and believe in anything you choose, and call everyone a valuable person. But I believe (I use "believe" here, because I know but cannot prove that this is true) as soon as you really want to actually discover new things you should study scientific theories summarizing (very well or not so well) knowledge collected before you and, what is as important, their language. You have to get your hands dirty and sometimes make yourself a fool going the wrong way. But your beliefs that everyone is a valuable person will not get you anywhere and will not bring you comfort in this case. It is very funny (if not sad and inconsistent) that the person a few posts up who believes in "creation" advises on critical thinking. What?. What? We have to redefine the word "critical" then. Bottom line for me here: You are free not to accept scientific theories, but never use your religious beliefs as an argument against those theories. Keep the flies and the burgers away from each other.

[asking]

Elelmhorst disagrees:

I am sure that we do not need a quick evolution 101 course here so you'd be wise to preach elsewhere.

Actually, I was just giving her some basic information so she could pass the course with a minimum of effort, so I was not preaching. I was operating on the assumption that she was stuck in the class. She can get a good grade or a bad one; I was trying to help her get something better than a D or an F.

And, by the way, the information in my post was factually correct or opinion, so not worthy of your "disagree."

[Tj3]

Well, how do you study creationism? :) That's beyond my understanding.

Before you criticize it, it might be a good idea to study it. I have studied both evolution and creationism.

Do you find more evidence that whoever created the planet first made dinosaurs, then killed them, then created humans?

There is a great deal of evidence that dinosaurs and humans have co-existed.

I have no idea what YEC is.

Young Earth (World) Creationist.

You don't have to answer my question though, just being sarcastic. You have a degree and can afford critical thinking, but 12 year olds cannot (yet).

Many cannot because they have been taught in the manner that asking suggests, to just take what they are told without any thought ro challenge.

I remain interested in the source for your claim that YECs accept evolution.

[harum]

There is a great deal of evidence that dinosaurs and humans have co-existed.

I can't tell if you are serious and sincere here or just making fun of me in a twisted way. I don't know what your motivation is when you say that dinosaurs coexisted with humans. Is your sticking with "creationism" due to your desire to describe natural history in a better way? Or you prefer "creationism" because you just want to stay with the old beliefs of our forefathers (which, no irony here, is touching and understandable) after a few patches here and there at the expense of modern textbooks? By the way, back to dinosaurs and humans, have they co-existed or been co-created? This is the question :). I haven't heard anything about co-existence (you are not talking about "Jurassic Park", are you?), but co-existence is not good enough for us, isn't it? Did they find undigested human bones inside a T.rex skeleton or inside its petrified pile of feces?

[arcura]

harum,
Believe it or not Tj3 is serious. He does believe that men and dinosaurs did co-exist together at one time about 6000 years ago.
He is a firm believer in the young earth hypotheses.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Tj3]

I can't tell if you are serious and sincere here or just making fun of me in a twisted way. I don't know what your motivation is when you say that dinosaurs coexisted with humans. Is your sticking with "creationism" due to your desire to describe natural history in a better way? Or you prefer "creationism" because you just want to stay with the old beliefs of our forefathers (which, no irony here, is touching and understandable) after a few patches here and there at the expense of modern textbooks?

I am a Christian and I am a man of science. I have studied the topic of creation a great deal over the years, and it was that study that caused me to turn from my belief in evolution to accept what the evidence was really pointing to.

Though some folk may tell you otherwise, there are thousands of scientists, both Christian and non-Christian who, on the basis of the evidence, have rejected revolution in favour of following the evidence wherever it may lead.

I am still waiting for the source of your claim that the majority of YECs accept macro-evolution

[arcura]

Tj3,
That really makes me wonder who taught you science.
Also where is all of this marvelous evidence you claim exists that man and dionsaurs co-existed 6000 or so years ago.
Did you get that from your science professor?
Fred

[Akoue]

I am still waiting for the source of your claim that the majority of YECs accept macro-evolution

Harum didn't make this claim. Xxariesxx did:

here are many religious people that accept evolution, in fact most young-world creationists have accepted evolution but interpret it in their own way, which is fine.

[Tj3]

Tj3,
That really makes me wonder who taught you science.

One of the finest, top rated universities in the country. And you?

Also where is all of this marvelous evidence you claim exists that man and dionsaurs co-existed 6000 or so years ago.
Did you get that from your science professor?
Fred

I did get it from scientists. How about your evidence for macro-evolution - I keep asking for that and have not seen it yet.

[Tj3]

I see some folks don't takje well to having their "beliefs" threatened with the facts. One person gave me a reddy and said"

"You threaten my beliefs."

Yes, I may in fact do so. The truth often has a way of doing that.

[arcura]

Tj3,
I have rated no one.
I have yet to figure out how to do that.
I have no rate button on people's posts.
I do not give you anything on macro evolution because I do not believe in it.
I believe only in some forms of it as I have mentioned several times.
By the way in case you are wondering you have never threatened my beliefs or faith.
You don't have the ability to do that.
Fred

[Tj3]

Tj3,
I have rated no one.

Don't get paranoid, Fred, I never said that you did.

I do not give you anything on macro evolution because I do not believe in it.
I believe only in some forms of it as I have mentioned several times.

What forms? Where is the proof of those forms?

[arcura]

Tj3,
That evolution is going on right now.
Certain species have been adopting ti various world changes,
Stars are dying and others are being formed, etc.
I believe I have mentioned this to you before.
Fred

[Tj3]

Tj3,
That evolution is going on right now.
Certain species have been adopting ti various world changes,

That is not macro-evolution, but micro-evolution.