[DominusVobiscum]

DominusVobiscum,
Any time I use the term "The Church" with capitol letters I refer to The Church that Jesus founded with Peter as its first leader that is now called The Catholic Church which I became a member of over 30 years ago after leaving Protestantism.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I knew it! I also use that allusion. But I just wanted to make sure. By the way, what rite do you belong to? I belong to the Roman rite.

[galveston]

To the OP. The battle between the angels and the dragon may be accepted as literal, though unseen by men. The dragon is a portrayal of Satan himself, and he and his angels will be thrown down to the surface of this planet. As of right now, they still have access to the heavens, at least to the immediate heavens, i.e. the atmosphere.

[techpro]

But didn't god banish him from the heavens before therefore creating hell?

[galveston]

but didn't god banish him from the heavens before therefore creating hell?

No. Even though Hell was created for the devil and his angels, none of them have been there---yet. In the book of Job, we see Satan appearing at the throne of God making accusation against Job.

Eph 2:2
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
(KJV)

In this scripture you see Satan identified as "the prince of the power of the air" so his casting down to the Earth is still future.

[techpro]

No. Even though Hell was created for the devil and his angels, none of them have been there---yet.

So when you say this you mean Satan was never actually sent to the hell that was created for him, just sent down to the earth to tempt us?

[galveston]

So when you say this you mean Satan was never actually sent to the hell that was created for him, just sent down to the earth to tempt us?

I simply mean that though Satan has been judged, he has not yet been incarcerated. He will be though. You have to understand that this Earth was under the oversight of the Archangel who later rebelled against God. We know him as Satan or the devil. Adam was given oversight, but forfeited it when he rejected God and accepted Satan as his advisor. God operates by laws that we only slightly comprehend, but since He (God) had turned this world over to Adam and Adam subsequently turned it back to Satan, it became necessary to regain full control by the bringing of life back into situation that had become a realm of death. All the history of the Bible is a record of Jehova's plan to keep His promise to Eve concerning "her seed" (Messian/Christ). We will all be tested and proven before we are allowed to enter into the Eternal City of God. So in this respect, even Satan serves some function in spite of himself.

[Athos]

I have been trying to study as much as i can about the book of Revelations, but i have been having a hard time understanding some of the content, can anyone help me to better understand this book!
Any help is appreciated!

Techpro - the Book of Revelation was a book that got into the canon by the skin of its teeth. It was essentially ignored for a thousand years, then in the 19th century the Fundamentalists got ahold of it and made it into something it was never intended to be.

It was written about the Roman Empire but you will never convince present-day fundamentalists that this is what it was all about. The radical right of Christianity loves to see Satan and the Catholic Church in this quirky book. It was the Harry Potter book of the day.

It is by far the best example of how badly some folks can interpret the Bible to fit their agenda.

Main stream theologians (Lutheran, Catholic, Anglican, etc.) have long since discarded this book as meaning anything other than its original intention as a coded message against the Roman Empire.

The fundamentalists love it.

[Tj3]

DominusVobiscum,
Any time I use the term "The Church" with capitol letters I refer to The Church that Jesus founded with Peter as its first leader that is now called The Catholic Church which I became a member of over 30 years ago after leaving Protestantism.

Jesus never appointed Peter as the head of any church. The Church that Jesus Christ established is the body of all believers that He called the Body of Christ. He did not found a denomination.

1 Cor 12:26-28
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 2
NKJV

[Athos]

Jesus never appointed Peter as the head of any church. The Church that Jesus Christ established is the body of all believers that He called the Body of Christ. He did not found a denomination.

1 Cor 12:26-28
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 2
NKJV

Sorry, but Jesus DID appoint Peter as head of his church. It couldn't be more clear in the Gospel.

[Tj3]

Sorry, but Jesus DID appoint Peter as head of his church. It couldn't be more clear in the Gospel.

It must have been penciled in in yours.:D

It is not in mine. Mine says Jesus was and is and remains head of the church:

Eph 5:22-24
23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.
NKJV

So, He is head of my Church. Sorry to hear about yours. ;)

[Athos]

It must have been penciled in in yours.:D

It is not in mine. Mine says Jesus was and is and remains head of the church:

Eph 5:22-24
23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.
NKJV

So, He is head of my Church. Sorry to hear about yours. ;)

You need to read the Gospel.

[Maggie 3]

I have a book called "Revelation, Gods Word for Biblically-Inept"
It is by Daymond R. Duck.You should take a look at it. I found it very useful

Maggie 3

[Tj3]

You need to read the Gospel.

I have - all of them many times, and I can state categorically that there is nothing in any of them saying that Christ ceased being head of the church and turned that over to any man.

[arcura]

DominusVobiscum
Roman Rite.
And the bible DOES clearly say that Jesus appointed Perter as the leader of His Church on earth and gave him the keys to heaven.
Matthew 16: 18. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
19. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Athos]

I have - all of them many times, and I can state categorically that there is nothing in any of them saying that Christ ceased being head of the church and turned that over to any man.

I don't think you have. Try again. It's all very clear.

[Tj3]

I don't think you have. Try again. It's all very clear.

Think as you wish - but I have, many times, and very thoroughly.

As the scripture that I quoted states - Christ is the head of the church.

[Tj3]

DominusVobiscum
Roman Rite.
And the bible DOES clearly say that Jesus appointed Perter as the leader of His Church on earth and gave him the keys to heaven.
Matthew 16: 18. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
19. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Is that what you were thinking of?

Matt 16:13-19
13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?" 14 So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets." 15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" 16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
NKJV

What do we see here?

- Jesus was speaking to his disciples as a group

- The topic was "who is Jesus"

- Peter answered that he is the Messiah, son of the living God.

- Jesus does not immediately refer to Peter, but rather the fact that the revelation of the truth came from God the father.

The word Peter here is Petros, which means stone or a piece of a rock, and then Jesus refers to the "rock" which is the revelation of who he is, and states that His church shall be built upon this revelation that He is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. The word "rock" here is Petra, which means rock, or a mass of rock. We do not build a building upon a piece of a rock or a stone, but rather upon a rock that is massive enough to provide a solid foundation. Jesus' choice of words made it clear which should be the foundation of His church. It is interesting to note the consistency of scripture in the use of these terms, Rock and stone. Throughout scripture, the Rock refers to God (Father or Son):

[Fr_Chuck]

I have PM and asked for them to explain the relationship,

But the OP techpro and the other new poster here DominusVobiscum are using the same IP address, and use the same server for their email address.

I have asked for them to explain this to me but we may well have the same person, answering thierself

[Akoue]

DominusVobiscum
Roman Rite.
And the bible DOES clearly say that Jesus appointed Perter as the leader of His Church on earth and gave him the keys to heaven.
Matthew 16: 18. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
19. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Hi Fred.

That's a great verse. It's even more clear in Aramaic, the language in which Matthew was originally written: "And I tell you you are KEPHA, and on this KEPHA I will build my church". Sure seems like Christ was talking to Peter about Peter, doesn't it?

[Athos]

Think as you wish - but I have, many times, and very thoroughly.

As the scripture that I quoted states - Christ is the head of the church.

I don't think you have. And not as thoroughly as you may think.