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treespectro · Dec 12, 2008, 05:55 AM

1997 Honda Civic: Automatic
Just got to work and had a heck of time getting in. Owned car since new and have never seen check engine light come on. Today is the first. Pouring rain on the drive, the car started normally and ran nornally. Travelled approx. 4 miles before check engine light came on. Car seemed a bit sluggish but nothing alarming. I noticed the speedometer was not working and upon giving the car gas after stopping for a traffic light -- the speedometer flew past 60 mph as I pulled from the light. Very strange. The needle then went back to zero. I continued to drive and noticed the dash lights were not steady -- they were dimming slightly and then getting bright again. I'm not sure but I think my headlights were doing the same. I pulled off and this odd behavior continued while parked.
I did continue to drive another 8 miles in this condition. I'm guessing I got something very wet when going through a puddle?
Any guidance is appreicated.

eddiy75ru · Dec 12, 2008, 10:04 AM

Sounds like cause is electrical. Could be water splashed on Alternator and caused temeporary loss of power output. Or water got into wiring harness (somewhere ?) and short circuited electrical system. BUT may be either/both caused damage to Alternator. If Alternator fails to provide electricity to car then Battery will provide power until Battery drained (day or so) and weak lights may happen. Check Engine Light will come ON when Alternator is not providing enough power; it MAY also come ON due to wiring short-circuit (?). After engine drys out, restart and hopefully Alternator is OK. If not take to mechanic for testing.

Another possibility: Water (and oil) got on rubber drive belt that turns Alternator and cuased slipping of that belt and so Alternator did not produce enough power. Usually you can hear slipoping belt, but with rain and wet-slippage may not sound loud. This is tmeporary and after belt dries will seem OK. BUT drive belt is too loose to begin with, so have mechanic either tighten or replace drive belt.

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 12, 2008, 10:15 AM

. Check for codes, since the CEL came on.

. Remove and fully charge the battery--if it's over 3 years old, consider replacing it.

. Test/replace the alternator--it's very possible the alternator is bad. Most auto parts stores will do this for free.

treespectro · Dec 12, 2008, 11:16 AM

Thank you to both for your replies. I am still at work and have yet to check to see if the car is still acting up. Ah... can't wait till 4:00 to see. I'll post when I find out the problem.

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 12, 2008, 11:32 AM

Here are some maintenance ideas to keep your Civic running a long time:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...tml#post219991

treespectro · Dec 13, 2008, 08:50 AM

Drove the car home last night and it started fine and ran good for about 3 minutes. After that warm up time the car began to exhibit the same problems I had explained previously. The only thing different I noticed was that climbing hills seems kind of tough for the car --- as if the transmission was sluggish and having trouble finding the correct gear. Don't know if this is related but I have never had transmission problems before. Just wanted to send a update.

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 13, 2008, 08:57 AM

The first thing you should do is check for codes. Many auto parts stores will do this for free--call around.

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 13, 2008, 09:05 AM

It's starting to sound like the Ignition Control Module and coil need replacing:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...tml#post265896

eddiy75ru · Dec 13, 2008, 10:25 AM

Back up a moment; let's not start replacing expensive parts too quickly. Sounds like "treespectro" is driver, not mechanic. Sounds to me that water has gotten down in "spark plug well(s)" of engine head and causing erratic plug firing. This happened to me and caused the poor running for days (finally had to use hair dryer to remove water/moisture). Also water/moisture could have gotten into distributor cap and cause similar problem. Yes, do check the OBED computer codes FREE at auto parts store, but plugs misfiring due to water/moisture unlikely to cause OBD Code (Engine Light). So some more problems could have been caused by the water splashing into engine compartment. If you can drive car to Auto Store for them to check OBD Codes, they can also check spark plug wells and distributir cap for excessive moisture. At least it runs and that is good news. Keep learning and save money.

treespectro · Dec 14, 2008, 07:36 AM

The replies once again are very helpful. I will get the codes checked today if I can find a shop that will do it. I will also check out the plug wells. As was said I am a driver and not a mechanic but I do feel comfortable getting under the hood and trying things. I have a well lit garage to get out of the cold.

I have a little bit more additional information I hope can shed a bit more light on this problem. I had the car in the garage and tested the voltage on the battery. It was reading approx. 12. This was kind of nice to see because I felt I may have drained it during my drive to and from work (about 35 miles total) I then started the car. It had been sitting in the freezing cold over night. It started normally and idled normally.
I thought that maybe the problem was just some wet issue. While in park, I slowly gave the car gas to see if it operated well at higher rev's. I do not have a tachometer but I would say it ran perfect until it got to about 1500-1800 rpm. As soon as it hit this threshold it begin it's problem (dashboard light pulsing etc. ) I shut the car down and restarted.---- perfect idle once again. ---- slowly brought it to the higher rpm and again the problem persisted. I did this four times with the same result.
I thought this would be useful information to help diagnose my problem. I'm hoping it's a relay or something I can replace on a Sunday. If I cannot cure this thing today... it's going to the shop tomorrow and I would love to avoid the $$$ loss.

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 14, 2008, 09:06 AM

I suspect the brushes ($5) in the alternator have worn down too much. At 1500 to 1800 rpm, the brushes start to bounce, lights start to pulsate, and the electrical system gets erratic. After testing for codes, get the alternator tested. Most auto parts stores will do these tests for free.

For the serious do-it-yourselfer, rebuilding alternators is fun and inexpensive:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...tml#post666293

How many miles are on the car?

treespectro · Dec 14, 2008, 09:44 AM

Tgm,
Thank you for the reply. I have 112,000 miles on the car. I will begin to call around and see if any care parts place will do code look-up for me and check alt. if possible. I'd love to remove the alt. if this is the problem but it sure looks like a bear to get at. I would assume it has to be removed from the underside? I do have the entire shop manual for the 97 civic.

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 14, 2008, 09:58 AM

Yes, you are clearly in the zone when alternators go. I think your problems just happened to coincide with wet weather and were not a function of it.

Removal is from below, but it's not too bad. Here's how:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...tml#post224856

eddiy75ru · Dec 14, 2008, 10:59 AM

Good to hear about your self-help efforts. Well, it sounds more serious than just water/moisture on plugs. DID you check plug wells for water? You really need to have the OBD Code(s) read; most national chain Auto Parts Stores will do it free; many even give you a little paper printout. [BTW: with some code reading equipment the codes are erased upon reading; so Engine Light may disappear for a day or so, but will return shortly after engine running]. The Fault Codes can also be found on various web sources; just Google the OBD Code ### and you will surly get many hits. Anyway, maybe leads back to what tx---- was saying; first get those Codes, then start hoping for simple cure. Remember when explaining to mechanics, be sure to relate that heavy rain may have splached up into hood. ALSO FYI: Battery voltage with engine OFF should read 12V; with Engine Running that same reading should be around 14V; that is simple check than Alternator system is functioning OK.

My ANS above was because I missed some recent Posts (think they were removed from thread). Anyway TGM has more experience with the techncial details and has you looking in the right areas. Hope those Fault Codes lead you in same direction. Let us know what it turns out to be; we all learn by hearing specific cases.

treespectro · Dec 14, 2008, 11:24 AM

Just got back from the auto parts store. Codes given : P1298, P0501, P0135, P0141. I will do some looking on the web for definition of these codes. Tech was able to give brief note on each they are: P1298 (Fuel?) , P0501 (speed sensor), P0135 (O2 sensor), P0141 (O2 sensor). Tech also checked battery (ok) , and alternator (tech said it was shot) giving low voltage to the battery. I am wondering if all the codes are due to the alt. problem or is there more than one issue. I will get under the car to determine if I can/ want to get this thing out of the car.(alternator) If I am able to remove and replace I have some questions going forward. Will the codes go away? Will the check engine light go off and reset? How do I go about being sure the belt is the correct tension? I am very grateful for the help I have received here and I am willing to try some more before giving up... but I must be honest... with the cold and uncertainty of my skills on replacing the alternator I am concerned that I may getting in over my head. I was hoping for a relay replacement or O2 sensor fix... something a bit easier. If it were summer and I didn't need the car this week I would love to learn how to replace the alternator... just getting cold feet I guess.

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 14, 2008, 11:35 AM

Have a shop replace the alternator for you. Many of the codes, then, will likely go away. You can try and clear the ECM by removing the Backup Fuse, in the underhood fuse box, for 10 seconds or disconnecting the negative battery cable for 10 seconds.

After looking at each code, I think they will all go away, after the alternator is replaced.

eddiy75ru · Dec 14, 2008, 11:45 AM

Again, you have done well to investigate and learn; far too many Drivers are less eager to learn - and Save $$$. But I believe all those codes could result from erratic electrical system (or water short circuiting). Ask TGM, but id remove Neg. Battery cable for a minute that will erase Cdoesfrom OBD memory; but codes will return within days of running if problems/causes still present. First off you need to get Alternator Prices (I'm not sure many shops rebuild; some ALT are throw-aways (TGM can advise). If go with Rebuilt ALt, I prefer Bosch brand due to quality and warranty. New from Honda will be top notch for $$$$; Honfda may also sell their Rebuild ALT. Labor should be easily set by Mechanic as not hard to simply replace. Wait to see what TGM says. BUT if you plan on keeping car, don't go too cheap; still Honda or Bosch Rebuilt seems OK compromise. LAST thought: Don't forget the water may have gotten into "wiring harnesses", and MAY still be there and can cause future problems (unpredictable). Suggest keep garaged and idle engine with hood closed to heat up engine compartemnt and hopefully dry out most remaining moisture. Maybe if take to Dealer/Mechanic for Alt replacement can CHECK out electrical wiring system for obvious short circuiting and give some assurances, but doubt they will guarntee "wiring." Good luck and keep us posted.

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 14, 2008, 11:46 AM

Here's where you can find out what each code stands for:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...tml#post325940

eddiy75ru · Dec 14, 2008, 11:54 AM

Treespectro, Forgot to tell you the Battery is only thing Starting and Running your car. So if you start, drive or idle it is draining Battery. So Recharge Battery overnight if you have charger. If not save Battery for driving to mechanic for Alternator work. Don't drive at night since Lights added Battery drain.

And if you Recharge battery, suggest disconnecting Battery Cables just in case short circuit now exists within Alternator or wiring harness (better be sure and not cause other damage).

treespectro · Dec 14, 2008, 03:13 PM

Edd, txgrease,

Both of you have been very helpful in guiding me to try to obtain a fix of my car. I could not have asked for better help.. . thank you. I made a decision this afternoon... I'm taking it to the shop for work. I left them a letter as to my belief that it is the alternator. I'll be sure to update you as to the findings. I am always hesitant to bring to the shop but at this point my need of the car outweighs my desire to get the job done myself... unfortunately my wallet will pay the price. One positive -- I've found a great sight that I can utilize from this point forward... not doubt it will continue to pay-off! Thanks again... who needs Click and Clack!