[mauj]

And so what are you doing to resolve the situation?

hello judykaytee what I am doing is trying to get the courts to let me admit my welfare papers in court so they can see I do need a public definder.but I am denied every time by the judge.

[JudyKayTee]

hello judykaytee what i am doing is trying to get the courts to let me admit my welfare papers in court so they can see i do need a public definder.but i am denied every time by the judge.

Right, got that. I meant what are you doing to get the welfare papers admitted - ?

Have you sent away for copies of your tax returns?

[excon]

Hello Jude:

I'm sure he doesn't HAVE tax returns. People bouncing along the bottom don't generally file. Of course, if they made LESS than around $9,000 they aren't required to file. But, whethere they DID or not, isn't an issue for Texas.

What this appears to me to be, is just your ordinary Texas railroad job. They have a fictitious bar that poor people need to reach in order to be appointed counsel. Of course, most can't reach it, so, these people get thrown away.

There's got to be 1,000's of innocent people inside Texas dungeons...

excon

[JudyKayTee]

Hello Jude:

I'm sure he doesn't HAVE tax returns. People bouncing along the bottom don't generally file. Of course, if they made LESS than around $9,000 they aren't required to file. But, whethere they DID or not, isn't an issue for Texas.

What this appears to me to be, is just your ordinary Texas railroad job. They have a fictitious bar that poor people need to reach in order to be appointed counsel. Of course, most can't reach it, so, these people get thrown away.

There's got to be 1,000's of innocent people inside Texas dungeons....

excon

Not disagreeing about Texas law - where you are allowed to legally shoot people in the back - but OP didn't say she didn't file. She said she only had 1 of the 4 returns.

Suppose it could be either way -

I have no idea what proof of need she showed to get on public assistance.

[karyn818]

I can't afford a lawyer either. I was arrested for shoplifting under 100.00. If I gave my tax returns they would say I can afford one but I can't. I have 3 mortgages, a car payment, behind in every bill we have. My husband only brings in enoguh for half the bills without OT and he hasn't gotten much OT lately, aka that's why I shoplifted at a grocery store. I will never do it again but would it be bad to go in without a lawyer??

[JudyKayTee]

I can't afford a lawyer either. I was arrested for shoplifting under 100.00. If I gave my tax returns they would say i can afford one but i can't. I have 3 mortgages, a car payment, behind in every bill we have. my husband only brings in enoguh for half the bills without OT and he hasn't gotten much OT lately, aka thats why i shoplifted at a grocery store. I will never do it again but would it be bad to go in without a lawyer???

This should be a separate thread or no one will see it.

I'd go without an Attorney and explain all of this - appears to be your only choice if you don't qualify for a public defender and can't afford an Attorney.

You will probably end up with some sort of community service, a fine, restitution, particularly if it's your first offense.

[karyn818]

What does restitution mean? Will It go on my record? Will I be scared for life now? Will I be convicted?

[JudyKayTee]

what does restitution mean? Will It go on my record? Will I be scared for life now? Will I be convicted?

Karyn, I just answered you at some length on your other post.

Restitution means you have to pay the store back for what you stole. Given your circumstances, this could very well be waived.

There may or may not be a record. You have to ASK that you not have a record and explain your reasons.

No, this will be just one of those bumps in life and won't follow you around if all goes well. You made a mistake.

I don't see a conviction. I see an explanation, a plea to something (who knows what it'll be reduced to). The Police are definitely trying to help you and you have to hope that the Court will, too.

[arron602]

hi! i live in Tx my question is can a judge deny me a public definder?i went to court on july , 9 2008 and was told that if wanted a public definder i would have to show the court 4 years of my tax returns. is this legal ? iam on walfare and can"t afford a lawyer. all the lawyer i called wanted 1,000 to 3,000 to take the case. i was charge with crimmal mischif less than 500.00 dollars damage.

It is your right to have legal representation and no-one can deny you of that.
However,I'm unsure of the legal system in Texas as far as being poor or not or their ways of determining that, but you are on welfare and if you take that to the judge along with any other government assistance you may be getting, you should be able to prove your being poor. I would NOT allow the case to go any further without legal help.

[JudyKayTee]

[QUOTE: AARON602: "It is your right to have legal representation and no-one can deny you of that.
However,I'm unsure of the legal system in Texas as far as being poor or not or their ways of determining that, but you are on welfare and if you take that to the judge along with any other government assistance you may be getting, you should be able to prove your being poor. I would NOT allow the case to go any further without legal help. QUOTE]


This is correct - everyone is entitled to legal representation. HOWEVER, the Courts can and do set up guidelines for which income levels do and do not qualify for FREE legal representation and what proof is required. And that is what happened here.

How would you propose the OP keep the case from going forward without legal representation now that the Judge has told her to either provide tax returns or return with an Attorney?

[mauj]

[QUOTE=JudyKayTee]Right, got that. I meant what are you doing to get the welfare papers admitted - ? Hi! Judykaytee the judge told me it was to late for me to admitt anything into court, he the (judge) said no matter what I try to give the courts he would not accept it ,and to be ready for trial oct 14 2008 I had welfare papers in hand that day to show him the(judge). The d.a"s even took a look at my welfare papers and said well let me talk to the judge to see if he will let you present them into court because we see you do need a public definder.

[mauj]

Right, got that. I meant what are you doing to get the welfare papers admitted - ?what can i do ? when i,ve been told by the judge its to late to admit anything into court.

Have you sent away for copies of your tax returns?

yes!

[this8384]

I'm sorry that you're having so much trouble with the court system. However, you say that you went to court on 7/9 and were told at that time to provide documentation of your income which would make you eligible for a public defender; you didn't post this question until 9/6. Now the judge has told you that it's too late to submit anything and you want to know what your options are. Quite frankly, I don't think you have any. You asked for a public defender; they asked for documentation. You waited for 2 months before even posting the question here which, in my eyes, is more than ample time to provide documentation. However, you did not.

I could be totally wrong but I don't think you have many options at this point. Yes, you can tell the judge that you cannot continue without legal counsel, which you are legally entitled to. But the court allowed you time to either a)prove that you need a public defender or b)obtain an attorney. You chose to do neither. The court system can't be put on hold just because you chose option C.

[arron602]

Ask for a continuance, postpone court date. Explain that you know nothing about what is going on with the case and that you NEED legal help. Also explain that you are working on getting the proper documentation proving that you are poor.
On that note, I don't understand how a court can try you while denying you legal help, that being your RIGHT here in the United States...

[JudyKayTee]

Ask for a continuance, postpone court date. Explain that you know nothing about what is going on with the case and that you NEED legal help. Also explain that you are working on geting the proper documentation proving that you are poor.
On that note, I dont understand how a court can try you while denying you legal help, that being your RIGHT here in the United States....

Again, the Court did not deny her legal assistance. It denied her FREE legal assistance because she either doesn't qualify OR can't prove that she does.

Everyone who walks into a Courtroom is not assigned a FREE Attorney. Not everyone qualifies.

Yes, she NEEDS an Attorney - one she may very well have to pay for.

You need grounds for a continuance, a postponement. This has been going on since July. The Judge is probably up to here with the whole "free Attorney" argument.

Continuing to post the same wrong legal information does not make it correct legal information.

[this8384]

Again, the Court did not deny her legal assistance. It denied her FREE legal assistance because she either doesn't qualify OR can't prove that she does.

Everyone who walks into a Courtroom is not assigned a FREE Attorney. Not everyone qualifies.

Yes, she NEEDS an Attorney - one she may very well have to pay for.

You need grounds for a continuance, a postponement. This has been going on since July. The Judge is probably up to here with the whole "free Attorney" argument.

My point exactly. The OP has never once been told that s/he will not be allowed legal representation. Instead, the OP squandered the time that they were given to provide proof of income, or lack thereof, which would entitle them to a public defender. And as I said, the court is not going to wait until the OP decides to start being more responsible; if they did, then they'd have to make that exception for every person who walked in through the doors and nothing would ever get accomplished.

My apologies to Ex but I just don't see this as a case of being "railroaded." While it may be true in a few or in a majority of cases, it's not in this one. The OP neglected to follow the court's guidelines and is now paying the price for it.

[excon]

My apologies to Ex but I just don't see this as a case of being "railroaded." While it may be true in a few or in a majority of cases, it's not in this one. The OP neglected to follow the court's guidelines and is now paying the price for it.

Hello again, this:

No apologies necessary. I don't disagree that the defendant fiddled around while he or she should have been diligent. He MAY not have understood the importance of it. You must remember, he DIDN'T have ANYONE guiding him along until he happened upon us.

The punishment for that indiscretion, however, should NOT be a DENIAL of his Constitutional right to counsel.

Every effort should be made by the judge to insure that the defendant has counsel. In TEXAS, as has been demonstrated, they do their best to insure the opposite.

I don't think the court should act in the manner it has, until it is CERTAIN that the defendant is stringing it along. I don't think that threshold has been reached yet. Of course, we only know what we've been told.

excon

[this8384]

Hello again, this:

No apologies necessary. I don't disagree that the defendant fiddled around while he or she should have been diligent. He MAY not have understood the importance of it. You must remember, he DIDN'T have ANYONE guiding him along until he happened upon us.

The punishment for that indiscretion, however, should NOT be a DENIAL of his Constitutional right to counsel.

Every effort should be made by the judge to insure that the defendant has counsel. In TEXAS, as has been demonstrated, they do their best to insure the opposite.

I don't think the court should act in the manner it has, until it is CERTAIN that the defendant is stringing it along. I don't think that threshold has been reached yet. Of course, we only know what we've been told.

excon

We agree the OP spent their time foolishly. However, I don't think they're being "punished" by the court; they knew the situation was important enough that they asked for a public defender. Why they waited 2 months to even pose the question is beyond you, me or anyone else on this board.

Should the OP have counsel? Absolutely. As you pointed out, that is their Constitutional right. On the other side of the coin, I don't think it's right that taxpayers' money should be spent having one hearing after the other just because the OP is dragging their feet. They were given time to act and they chose not to.

But that's just me :)

[mauj]

I'm sorry that you're having so much trouble with the court system. However, you say that you went to court on 7/9 and were told at that time to provide documentation of your income which would make you eligible for a public defender; you didn't post this question until 9/6. Now the judge has told you that it's too late to submit anything and you want to know what your options are. Quite frankly, I don't think you have any. You asked for a public defender; they asked for documentation. You waited for 2 months before even posting the question here which, in my eyes, is more than ample time to provide documentation. However, you did not.

I could be totally wrong but I don't think you have many options at this point. Yes, you can tell the judge that you cannot continue without legal counsel, which you are legally entitled to. But the court allowed you time to either a)prove that you need a public defender or b)obtain an attorney. You chose to do neither. The court system can't be put on hold just because you chose option C.

Hello 8384 frist of all I am dealing with Texas who give a rats a** about giving a public defender to anyone. Second I did try to show the courts the I am on public assistant the very first day that court started 07-09-2008 and was told by judge I needed 4 years of my tax returns not public assistant papers I don't have 4 years of tax returns which I tried to tell the judge and he replied to me well it's to bad because the courts had given me enough time.to hire attorney I was trying to come up with some money to hire an attorney but had no luck.thats why I was trying to show the courts that I am poor and can't afford an attorney.

[mauj]

We agree the OP spent their time foolishly. However, I don't think they're being "punished" by the court; they knew the situation was important enough that they asked for a public defender. Why they waited 2 months to even pose the question is beyond you, me or anyone else on this board.

Should the OP have counsel? Absolutely. As you pointed out, that is their Constitutional right. On the other side of the coin, I don't think it's right that taxpayers' money should be spent having one hearing after the other just because the OP is dragging their feet. They were given time to act and they chose not to.

But that's just me :)

hello again 8384 why is it so hard for you to understand that the court don"t wont to even see my papers that i have from the walfare office i've tried to submit the papers from the very first day of court to the courts and they did'nt won"t to see what I had to show them.if the government gives me cash assistance and food stamps would you consider that being poor enough to get a public defender?