[Credendovidis]

I will agree it is your right of free will to search your own heart and mind.

Even if one would accept the preposterous idea of "god given free will" that would in that case be a given thing, not a right...

In my non-mythical world a right is a right

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[arcura]

Altenweg,
I'm glad you started this thread.
So far it has been VERY interesting and informative on how others think about God.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Alty]

Altenweg,
I'm glad you started this thread.
So far it has been VERY interesting and informative on how others think about God.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Yes it has, it's also interesting to see that most people believe that only their faith
Is the true way to believe in God, and that others are just fooling themselves.

There are many different ways to let God into your life, not all of them require the bible
Or church, some people, myself included, have faith without any "proof" of God's existence, and I think that is truly remarkable. :)

I know what's in my heart, and so does God, that's good enough for me and my family.:)

Peace. :)

[sndbay]

Even if one would accept the preposterous idea of "god given free will" that would in that case be a given thing, not a right ...

In my non-mythical world a right is a right

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

In America, the [right] to do something is legally chosen for us. The established free will is open unto an individual own choice created within the mind and heart. That is why it is free, free from man made decision.

[arcura]

sndbay,
Exactly...
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Credendovidis]

Even if one would accept the preposterous idea of "god given free will" that would in that case be a given thing, not a right ... In my non-mythical world a right is a right

In America the [right] to do something is legally chosen for us. The established free will is open unto an individual own choice created within the mind and heart. That is why it is free, free from man made decision.

Since when has that anything to do with the preposterous idea of "god given free will"??

In "AMERICA", the "right" to do something is NOT legally chosen for you. YOUR country is NOT even called "America" but the "US of A". May be the fact that there are many other countries on the american continent has something to do with that.
So your line therefore shows quite a lot of "delusions of grandeur" and/or lack of knowledge.
It may have been the situation in the USA in the past ("MAY" and mainly in name), but certainly NOT in "America".
However that is even no longer the situation in the USA of 2008, as your "freedom" of almost everything that may have been common in the past there has been diminished to very little since 9/11, after which event the USA developed a rather worrying resemblance to a police state.

But more important to know for you as theist : whatever the USA does or does not, does not have any influence at all on what God (If God exists) has (or has not) given to HUMANITY, and why, how, limited, or under which conditions.

That stated : your reply provides a nice display of your totally misplaced ideas on "God" and on the capacities and powers of the US of A.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

sndbay, Exactly...

Dear Fred : I know you mean well, but when will you finally learn to READ posts by others before supporting these just because that response seems to support your religious belief, however ends up to be totally nonsensical?

Peace and kindness, Fred !

John

:)

.

[arcura]

Credendovidis
As you know I post as I either believe or know.
You'll note that over the years I have often agreed with you because I either believed or knew you were correct.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Credendovidis]

As you know I post as I either believe or know.
You'll note that over the years I have often agreed with you because I either believed or knew you were correct.

Correct Fred. But than why post like you did in your previous post ? You know that the laws of the US of A have NOTHING to do with the Christian belief!! Whatever people prefer to believe has NOTHING to do with the claimed "free will given by God".

:rolleyes:

[simoneaugie]

Perhaps, I am one of those fooling themselves. Altenweg stated:

"Please remember that we are all human beings, we all have feelings, we all have hearts, we all feel strongly about our beliefs and no one wants their beliefs to be belittled. Let's be respectful of eachother and let's have an open discussion about our different beliefs.

So, let's discuss."

[QUOTE=Credendovidis][To Fred] Since when has that anything to do with the preposterous idea of "god given free will"??

Dear Fred : I know you mean well, but when will you finally learn to READ posts by others before supporting these just because that response seems to support your religious belief, however ends up to be totally nonsensical?

Peace and kindness, Fred !

John


That does not represent an open discussion about our different beliefs. That is labelling of another, judgement, name-calling and a blatant put down. Most of us give up that juvenile tactic when we reach maturity. This is a discussion, not a debate John.

Reading the symbols of thought (words) is important. Understanding as much as possible what the writer is saying about himself, and not saying, and between the lines, is vital to communication with another human being.

[ordinaryguy]

That does not represent an open discussion about our different beliefs. That is labelling of another, judgement, name-calling and a blatant put down. Most of us give up that juvenile tactic when we reach maturity. This is a discussion, not a debate John.

Reading the symbols of thought (words) is important. Understanding as much as possible what the writer is saying about himself, and not saying, and between the lines, is vital to communication with another human being.

I agree with you, Simone. But for some people, argumentation and debate is a competitive sport, a form of combat, an end in itself. For them, it is a form of entertainment, having nothing to do with the kind of communication that leads to understanding. Finding a constructive way to engage and respond to these folks is indeed a challenge. More often than not, I have to conclude that the most constructive response is no response at all. Not the most creative, perhaps, but the most constructive.

[NeedKarma]

I agree with you, Simone. But for some people, argumentation and debate is a competitive sport, a form of combat, an end in itself. For them, it is a form of entertainment, having nothing to do with the kind of communication that leads to understanding. Finding a constructive way to engage and respond to these folks is indeed a challenge. More often than not, I have to conclude that the most constructive response is no response at all. Not the most creative, perhaps, but the most constructive.

[Alty]

What we have to remember is that any religious discussion is touchy, it always has the potential to turn into a debate, and that's when all discussion comes to an end.

We are all different, I venture to say that we differ in more than just our religious beliefs. That's what makes this world so wonderful. So many differences, so much "flavor" out there. Let's remember that when we discuss, and try to respect eachothers opinions and beliefs.

I too can easily get into a debate, it's not hard to get me upset, I am trying though.

I started this thread to discuss our differences, in the hopes of better understanding each other and accepting each other for who and what we are. :)

Peace.

[Credendovidis]

For simoneaugie and ordinaryguy :

It were the off-topic and incorrect posts by sndbay and arcura (#24 and 25), that started this all ! Why blame me, the messenger ? Blame them!!

This type of unfair and non-necesarry back-stabbing precisely is the cause why accepting each other for who and what we are is so difficult. All it shows is the influence of personal agenda's.

:rolleyes:

[arcura]

Cred,
Believe it or NOT,
Many of the laws in the USA books are based on Christian beliefs.
In fact our Declaration of Independence and much of our Constitution is so based.
Peace and kinndess,
Fred

[NeedKarma]

Cred,
Believe it or NOT,
Many of the laws in the USA books are based on Christian beliefs.
In fact our Declaration of Independence and much of our Constitution is so based.
Peace and kinndess,
Fred

That's not a fact. There have been a few long threads debating that.

Peace and stuff.
Love the Spaghetti Monster and he will love you.

NK.

[Credendovidis]

That's not a fact. There have been a few long threads debating that.

Before we know it it starts again : how many of the Founding Fathers were Deists ?
And how many were Christians? etc. etc. etc.

:rolleyes:

[arcura]

Cred,
No need to start it again.
I have stated my opinion on that.
I'll not be changing it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred