[Alty]

Hi Everyone,

I’ve decided to start another thread and I hope this one goes well.

Many people have asked me about my beliefs, and why I believe what I do. It’s hard to explain, and is only significant to me, but maybe this will help.

I am a Deist, I only recently heard of this word (thank you Cred) and I have to say that it describes my beliefs perfectly. Here’s a short definition;

Deist; typically reject most supernatural events (prophecy, miracles) and tend to assert that God does not intervene with the affairs of human life and the natural laws of the universe. What organized religions see as devine revelation and holy books, most deists see as interpretations made by other humans, rather than as authoritative sources. Deists believe that God's greatest gift to humanity is not religion, but the ability to reason.

If you want a more detailed description then Google Deism, there are many great sites about it.

My belief in God is mainly from events that I’ve witnessed in my life, and like I said, they are only really significant to me, to explain them would take a book, and would probably still leave you asking why?

I don’t believe that the bible is “Gods word” I believe that it’s just an interesting story written by men. I don’t believe in organized religion because most religions are based on the teachings of a man written book. I do believe in God.

What is your belief? What do you base your belief on? Do you follow the religion you were raised with? Did you find your own way to religion? Do you believe in God? Do you believe in Science? Do you believe in anything, and if so, what?

This is the place to voice your beliefs, to share your beliefs with others.

Please remember that we are all human beings, we all have feelings, we all have hearts, we all feel strongly about our beliefs and no one wants their beliefs to be belittled. Let’s be respectful of each other and let’s have an open discussion about our different beliefs.

So, let’s discuss. :)

[NeedKarma]

I always thought one's belief was a personal matter. I guess that's just the way I was raised.

[Alty]

I always thought one's belief was a personal matter. I guess that's just the way I was raised.

That's your right NK. To discuss your beliefs or not is a personal choice for sure. :)

I was always told that there are three things you avoid discussing at all costs. Sex, politics and religion.

I've managed to avoid 1 of the three, I never discuss politics. :)

[RickJ]

I follow what my Faith Group teaches in it's official teachings:

The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

[Credendovidis]

... I was always told that there are three things you avoid discussing at all costs. Sex, politics and religion. I've managed to avoid 1 of the three, I never discuss politics. :)

And I will discuss any of these three subjects! If possible I even combine all three into one post...

:D

[Alty]

And I will discuss any of these three subjects! If possible I even combine all three into one post ....

:D

I can combine religion and sex into one topic, but politics, I stay clear of that entirely. :)

RickJ, thank you for sharing your beliefs. :)

[Credendovidis]

I can combine religion and sex into one topic, but politics, I stay clear of that entirely.

Let me give you one example that it is possible to combine the three without any problems :

George Bush dies and goes to heaven to meet St Peter at the Pearly Gates. Peter looks at Bush, sticks out his hand and says, "Nice to meet you, Mr. Bush. We've been waiting for this day, welcome to Heaven." He goes on: "It's now our policy to allow people to choose whether they spend all of eternity in eith..." Bush, being the incredibly impatient man that he is, grabs Peter and slaps him on the back and says, "No, no, Pete, my man, I've already decided, I want to spend the rest of eternity here in Heaven with you and my homeboy Jesus. He and I got tight back in Midland." Peter is insistent, "No, George. We made an agreement with Lucifer that ALL newcomers must visit both Heaven and Hell for a day each before making their decision. YOU MUST VISIT HELL." As Peter leads Bush over to the elevator, he smiles kindly, shakes Bush's hand, encourages him to enjoy his stay in Hell and says he'll look forward to tomorrow when Bush comes back for his stay in Heaven.

Bush boards the elevator shaking his head, wondering why they're making him spend a day in Hell. "Why? I've done everything fine, confessed all my sins, quit drinking, ran for president - won! What's a little cheating here and there? - why couldn't they see I'll would want to be in Heav..." His thought stopped mid-sentence as the doors opened and he realised he was on a golf course on the most beautiful day he'd ever experienced. There was his daddy, Tom DeLay, Karl Rove, Bandar Bush, Kenneth Lay - all of his old buddies with beer in hand and each with some of the most bodacious, beautiful women on each arm that he'd EVER seen. "And this is considered Hell?" he thought. He stepped out of the elevator, introduced himself to the Devil and asked for a tour. They played a round of golf, enjoyed some more beers and the sight of all the nearly naked women running around chasing and picking up golf balls for them. He couldn't believe himself. He remarked to the Devil, "I don't see why anyone would ever want to leave this place." Lucifer just leaned back and laughed while sweeping his arm out, "Isn't it great? Blue skies, sunshine, women, beer and golf. What more could you want?" Bush just shook his head in disbelief.

Later that evening, the Devil came over and patted Bush on the back and said, "Well, Georgie, it's been great having you, but you have to go up to Heaven and spend a day there." Bush was insistent that he didn't want to leave. Why would he when he had everything he ever wanted here in Hell? Leave Heaven for Laura. He wouldn't need her here. The Devil was insistent, "YOU MUST VISIT HEAVEN." For he knew the wrath he'd experience from God if he didn't send Bush back.

Reluctantly, Bush boarded the elevator for the ride back to Heaven. Peter met him at the door again and asked how the visit in Hell was. "Great!" said Bush. "I don't see how you have anyone pick Heaven nowadays." Peter just chuckled to himself as he led Bush through the Pearly Gates. Here, everyone was sitting around on their clouds in white flowing robes, singing, talking in hushed tones and discussing ways to make the place better - for everyone. There was Mother Theresa, Gandhi, Nelson Mandela - all these wonderful people Bush hadn't given a second thought to. "B-O-R-I-N-G." thought Bush, "Why would anyone choose this lame place when they've got beer, sex and golf in Hell?"

At the end of his stay in Heaven, Bush approached Peter and said, "Hey man, thanks for the tour, but I really think I'll fit better in Hell." Peter shook Bush's hand one last time and put him on the elevator, laughing hysterically as soon as the doors were closed. Bush just couldn't wait to get to Hell. Bush just kept repeating things in his head: Sex. Booze. Golf. Sex. Booze. Golf. He started rubbing his hands together in anticipation.

As the doors opened he stopped in his tracks. No longer there was the golf course. Instead, he saw a dark, dank, smoggy city where his friends were stumbling past, eyes glazed from exhaustion as they wore disgustingly dirty rags and picked up a never ending trail of trash. Bush searched for his friends. Yep, they were all there though none had the energy to come over and welcome him in. They didn't care. The Devil sauntered over and slapped Bush on the back, "Welcome home, George." Bush looked at the Devil, stunned. "Yesterday ..."

"Yesterday," the Devil started, "You came down here and we all campaigned for you, promised you the world you've always dreamed about." The Devil started rolling with laughter, "Today, George, today you voted for us."

My thanks to budapestgirl !!!

:D

[Alty]

Wow Cred, you really did discuss all three topics. :) LMAO, good joke. :)

[michealb]

Not to steal away from your topic but I agree that religion, politics and sex should be talked about more. How are you suppose to change society if you can't discuss religion and politics? Discussion is fundamental to change.

[Alty]

I agree Michealb.

I don't mind discussing religion, in fact I enjoy talking to others about it. My beliefs are so different from most people that I meet, and I've met people who's beliefs interest me a great deal. Not that I want to join their church, but some of their traditions are very interesting indeed, just not for me.

Sex, well, who doesn't enjoy sex talk? ;) I've always been a very open person, I believe discussing sex is very important, both in a relationship and with our own kids (of course those conversations are very different).

Politics, well, I've never enjoyed politics, never had an interest, probably because I'm not allowed to vote. You see, I live in Canada, have lived here since I was almost 4 years old, but I'm not a Canadian citizen and therefore, I can't vote here. Quite frankly, politics bores me to tears.

So, even though my parents gave me the list of no no's, I do discuss 2 out of three. I think their guideline was just to avoid fighting, because those topics are the ones most likely to elicit a fight. Let's face it, people's views on religion, sex and politics, well, there's so many different religions, there's allot of controversy with sex, and politics, eeek, I've seen the fights that start here on AMHD because of politics.

Okay, slightly off topic, sorry. :(

[arcura]

Altenweg,
I find your views on religion interesting.
But your way is not for me.
Why?
Because God has been very active in my life.
He has answered many of my prayers.
I believe he save my life in Korea.
I was for 35 years a Protestant who bashed Catholicism.
Then I started studying the bible with an open mind trying to prove how wrong Catholicism is.
The more I studied the more I found that what I believed about that faith was wrong.
So about 40 years ago I changed and became a Catholic.
Because of the many discussions about religion I have participated in I am extremely happy that the Holy Spirit guided my life and beliefs.
Yes I am also a deist but MY belief in God is far more and fuller than simple deism.
IF you ever started praying to God, you might also make a change in your beliefs.
:) Peace and kindness,:)
Fred (arcura)

[Alty]

Fred, I pray to God every day. God is a part of my life, but not through the bible or church.

I went to Catholic school for 10 years and I have studied the bible, cover to cover. To me it's just a man written book, stories. I'm sure some of the stories have some basis of truth, but all, I don't think so.

I was raised Lutheran, went to Catholic school and decided long ago that "organized" religion isn't for me. Church is just a man made institution to preach what they believe a man written book says.

Yes I am also a deist but MY belief in God is far more and fuller than simple deism.

Simple deism? No Fred, there's nothing simple about it. I spent many years researching and trying to find my way. To say that your belief is far more and fuller than simple deism is an insult to my beliefs. You do not know what I believe or how deeply I believe. Just because I don't read the bible and don't go to church does not make my beliefs any less real or full than yours.

Yes I am also a deist

No, you are not. Deists don't follow the bible or organized religion.

I am glad that you are so happy with your chosen religion. Is it so hard to accept that I will not ever be a Christian?

God is in my heart and soul, I believe that, and that's all I need.

Peace and kindness to you as well. :)

[sndbay]

I was raised Lutheran, went to Catholic school and decided long ago that "organized" religion isn't for me. Church is just a man made institution to preach what they believe a man written book says.

No, you are not. Deists don't follow the bible or organized religion.

I am glad that you are so happy with your chosen religion. Is it so hard to accept that I will not ever be a Christian?

God is in my heart and soul, I believe that, and that's all I need.

Altenweg,

Our lives do experience many exterior influence that impack us. And you have shown that your choice is to follow God in your heart and soul. I was also raised Lutheran, yet I do NOT believe in following Lutheran doctrine. Nor would I follow man's doctrine. Instead it is what's in my heart, mind and soul; that which can only be revealed by God.

I am a child of God, just as it is written. So yes I do read scripture as a letter from Our Father in spiritual Truth. God is powerful.. God said see now that I, even I am He And there is no god with Me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal; Neither is there any that can deliver out of My hands. For I lift up My hand to heaven.

God loves all His children that love Him. The objective is, do you understand there is evil who can love something more then God? That God did establish a choice in mind and soul to follow Him as you have firmed stated. But He has also warned us that not all will do as He says, but instead follows other gods, and too, those that follow man with pride in likeless to satan. Those that perverse the word. ( to turn Truth into a lie, and do it in His name)

You have read the bible, so without influence by man's teaching, do you believe in God's power and love? Do you accept His love given in Christ for us? The power to destroy evil by giving us an open door in Christ?

To believe in Christ being ONE with the Father in heart, mind and soul. I do believe in following Christ. For if you have seen the The Son Jesus you have seen the Father. This does not make me a Christian by any way other then man's interpretion. I am a child of God as it is written, and I enter a house of God to give honor and praise to Our Lord.
No man can take that from my mind, heart, and soul. It all belongs to Our Lord.

[Alty]

SndBay. I believe that Jesus was a special person, someone who was indeed blessed. I haven't yet decided whether he was the son of God, that is something I haven't come to terms with yet.

I do love God, but he is not what I love most in the world. My family will always come first, my kids, my husband, my loved ones.

God is a part of my life, and I do my best to live a good life, to be a good person. If God is the all powerful, all knowing God, then he knows what's in my heart and soul, and I cannot hide from him.

When you say enter a house of God to give honor and praise, do you mean church? Church is a man made building, where man preaches from a man written book. As stated in the bible, Jesus preached on the streets, to anyone who would listen, prostitutes, lepers, the old, the young. Jesus didn't need a fancy building with oak pews and statues and stained glass windows. These are all man made trappings, and have nothing to do with the love of God, and everything to do with the love of money.

No, I do not read the bible anymore, I have read it, and I'm not convinced that it's the "word of God", in fact, I'm convinced it's just stories written by men, on their own, with no help from anything or anyone supernatural.

I can love God without ever leaving my home, I can worship him without going to a church, I can understand his wishes without reading the bible. And yes, I do have faith, and it is no less just because I'm not a Christian.

I have nothing against the Christian faith personally, it's just not for me. It's everyone's right to believe what they want. The problem I have is that most Christians do not agree with letting people choose their beliefs, they believe that their way is the only way, and cannot accept that someone who isn't like them may just have as strong a faith as they do.

Peace. :)

[sndbay]

SndBay. I believe that Jesus was a special person, someone who was indeed blessed. I haven't yet decided whether or not he was the son of God, that is something I haven't come to terms with yet.

I do love God, but he is not what I love most in the world. My family will always come first, my kids, my husband, my loved ones.

God is a part of my life, and I do my best to live a good life, to be a good person. If God is the all powerful, all knowing God, then he knows what's in my heart and soul, and I cannot hide from him.

Recognizing that God does indeed know our minds and hearts is knowing His power over all.

And I see a mother's love for her children and family, but I chose to take one step closer in knowing my children are blessing from God to me. To nourish and love them as God loves us all. God's love is above my love because His love saves us all that follow Him. He can protect us better, he can heal us, and he nourishes us, because nothing I do for my children is done without God. I believe we can fail, when we try to go without God. He won't forsake us, and He asked that we follow Him.

There is comfort in His love and rest when we need rest from everyday reality of good and bad.

When you say enter a house of God to give honor and praise, do you mean church? Church is a man made building, where man preaches from a man written book. As stated in the bible, Jesus preached on the streets, to anyone who would listen, prostitutes, lepers, the old, the young. Jesus didn't need a fancy building with oak pews and statues and stained glass windows. These are all man made trappings, and have nothing to do with the love of God, and everything to do with the love of money.

Yes I mean a structure and fellowship of people. I trust my own choice in rejecting what is not, or holding stedfast to what is truth. I sing with a heart of joy in praise, and honor. And accept the love He has brought together in desire to hear of His love. I admit that everything is not perfect within man's teaching, but I know God stands in the presence of those who gather in His Name. My relationship with The Lord is one with Christ, and Christ is one with The Father. Accountable to my free will choice, to do His will.

No, I do not read the bible anymore, I have read it, and I'm not convinced that it's the "word of God", in fact, I'm convinced it's just stories written by men, on their own, with no help from anything or anyone supernatural.

I can love God without ever leaving my home, I can worship him without going to a church, I can understand his wishes without reading the bible. And yes, I do have faith, and it is no less just because I'm not a Christian.

I have nothing against the Christian faith personally, it's just not for me. It's everyones right to believe what they want. The problem I have is that most Christians do not agree with letting people choose their beliefs, they believe that their way is the only way, and cannot accept that someone who isn't like them may just have as strong a faith as they do.

Peace. :)

I will agree it is your right of free will to search your own heart and mind. Life is that journey with the experiences to teach us along the way. It is a choice to seek God, and it is His promise to answer those who do seek. He does indeed know whats in our hearts.

[Alty]

I will agree it is your right of free will to search your own heart and mind. Life is that journey with the experiences to teach us along the way. It is a choice to seek God, and it is His promise to answer those who do seek. He does indeed know what's in our hearts.

:)

I respect your beliefs as well, they just aren't my beliefs. That's what makes this world so wonderful, our differences, yet we are all the same in so many ways. We are all humans, and we should all accept eachothers differences with an open mind and heart. :)

[ordinaryguy]

Here is one of the very few things that I believe fervently enough to be adamant about it:

Notwithstanding the multitudinous differences in the circumstances of our individual birth and all our experiences since that moment, there's really only one kind of people in the world. Even when, as happens from time to time, many, many individuals turn on their own kind and commit murders and atrocities, both private and public, even then, there is still only one kind.

Some quotes I like:

every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main... --John Donne

We have met the Enemy, and They are Us. --Pogo

There's two kinds of people in the world: Those that divide the world into two kinds of people, and those that don't. --unknown/anonymous/graffiti

[simoneaugie]

Hi Alty,
God, Deity to me, is a soul thing not anything a person can give thought to. Although we are frequently unable to quit thinking, our center, heart, soul or whatever continues infinitely. So, believing that, I find the Bible an exercise in human mentality. We are so busy being proud of our ability to write, to read, to think, to reason and to converse that we forget who we really are.

If any of us were driving down a deserted highway and saw a child lying in the road who had been injured, what would we do? Sure, there would be a few who drove on, around the obstacle. Most would slam on their brakes, leap out of their car and help. That is what God is to me. There is no thought, just action based on what feels right.

As we walk down the sidewalk, putting one foot in front of the other we can be taking action, being, or we can be thinking furiously. All the arguments we have about religion detract from "being." We are all a part of God and when we quit thinking about it, we know.

[Alty]

Hi Alty,
God, Diety to me, is a soul thing not anything a person can give thought to. Although we are frequently unable to quit thinking, our center, heart, soul or whatever continues infinitely. So, believing that, I find the Bible an exercise in human mentality. We are so busy being proud of our ability to write, to read, to think, to reason and to converse that we forget who we really are.

If any of us were driving down a deserted highway and saw a child lying in the road who had been injured, what would we do? Sure, there would be a few who drove on, around the obstacle. Most would slam on their brakes, leap out of their car and help. That is what God is to me. There is no thought, just action based on what feels right.

As we walk down the sidewalk, putting one foot in front of the other we can be taking action, being, or we can be thinking furiously. All the arguments we have about religion detract from "being." We are all a part of God and when we quit thinking about it, we know.

Wow, that's all I can say, wow. That was beautiful Simone. :)

[Alty]

Ordinary Guy, I love it, and agree 100%. :)