[Tj3]

Soooo.... what "denomination" was around before the 4th century?

I am not aware of any denominations in that timeframe. It appears that the Roman church was the first.

[ScottRC]

I am not aware of any denominations in that timeframe. It appears that the Roman church was the first.

I get it... just a group of individuals who practiced a faith similar to what you today would call "Catholic"... I can live with that.

[Tj3]

I get it... just a group of individuals who practiced a faith similar to what you today would call "Catholic"..... I can live with that.

No, the Roman church today is much different. Many of the changes occurred in 325AD when Constantine amalgamated the pagan Roman religion into the church. Then the denomination kept "evolving" their doctrine to what we have today.

[ScottRC]

No, the Roman church today is much different.

Where in the Bible does it describe the beliefs of the 2-4th century Christian church?

Many of the changes occurred in 325AD when Constantine amalgamated the pagan Roman religion into the church.

So Christian history pre-Constantine should be an accurate representation of orthodox Christian teaching?

[Tj3]

Where in the Bible does it describe the beliefs of the 2-4th century Christian church?

Why would it? The canon was closed before then.

So Christian history pre-Constantine should be an accurate representation of orthodox Christian teaching?

I answered that previously. The Bible is an accurate indicator of what Christian doctrine is. History is not. Because history is the record of what men have done, and men began to stray away from sound teachings very early - the NT records some members of the early church already straying into heresy.

[arcura]

Tj3,
That is also where I get my accurate information.
You just see it differently than I do.
You believe as you wish and I will do the same.
Is that OK with you?
Fred

[ScottRC]

Why would it? The canon was closed before then.

I'm just wondering where you discerned your information about history from...

Because history is the record of what men have done, and men began to stray away from sound teachings very early - the NT records some members of the early church already straying into heresy.

I agree... but I'm still wondering if you can provide some examples of your "bible-only" Christians ---- pre-Constantine... I doubt you would post something so foolish without being able to support this with facts, right?

History should support your contention that "the changes occurred in 325AD when Constantine amalgamated the pagan Roman religion into the church"... you should be able to provide ample quotes from the early Church that show how Christians have a theology similar to yours... and then show examples of the corruption after Catholicism became pagan.

Looking forward to reading your examples.

[arcura]

ScottRC
I would also like to see that from Tj3.
Particularly with the fact that history provides hundreds of letters and documents which demonstrate the true history of The Church from it's beginning with Jesus.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[arcura]

ScottRC
I would also like to see that from Tj3.
Particularly with the fact that history provides hundreds of letters and documents which demonstrate the true history of The Church from it's beginning with Jesus.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Tj3]

I'm just wondering where you discerned your information about history from...

You think that the canon remained open?

I agree... but I'm still wondering if you can provide some examples of your "bible-only" Christians

I find it interesting. I said that I do believe in sola scripture, but not "BIble alone" or "scripture alone", so what terms do you use? I would have thought that if ylou wanted an honest discussion, you would deal with what I actually believe not what you claim that I believe.

History should support your contention that "the changes occurred in 325AD when Constantine amalgamated the pagan Roman religion into the church"... you should be able to provide ample quotes from the early Church that show how Christians have a theology similar to yours... and then show examples of the corruption after Catholicism became pagan.

I have posted information on here numerous times.

[Tj3]

Tj3,
That is also where I get my accurate information.
You just see it differently than I do.

Where do you get your information from, Fred?

You believe as you wish and I will do the same.
Is that OK with you?
Fred

I have always said that you can believe whatever you want. However, if you promote denominational teachings contrary to what scripture teaches, expect to be challenged.

[arcura]

Tj3,
Since when is the belief in Sola Scripture not Bible only or scripture alone?
Millions of people believe they are the same.
Fred

[ScottRC]

You think that the canon remained open?

Until when?

Hebrews wasn't used in the West (by those non-denominational Christians) for two hundred years... and the East with Revelation for some 800 years... so I'm not sure when YOU believe the canon was closed.

I find it interesting. I said that I do believe in sola scripture, but not "BIble alone"

Pretend I used sola scriptura... my bad... same questions still apply.

I have posted information on here numerous times.

I didn't think you could... oh well.

Sorry Fred.

[arcura]

ScottRC,
I'm sorry also.
Fred

[Tj3]

Tj3,
Since when is the belief in Sola Scripture not Bible only or scripture alone?
Millions of people believe they are the same.
Fred

No, Fred. This has been explained to you many times. No one says that we should avoid other books and references. What sola scriptura says is that the Bible is our sole standard of doctrine against which any other works or doctrines or beliefs should be measured for truth.

[Tj3]

Until when?

Hebrews wasn't used in the West (by those non-denominational Christians) for two hundred years.... and the East with Revelation for some 800 years..... so I'm not sure when YOU believe the canon was closed.

So you define the canon by when a document was used not written. Interesting how a book would be preserved for 200 years if it was not used at all.

[De Maria]

So you define the canon by when a document was used not written.

Well yeah. What does canon mean to you?

The Canon of the Bible
The canon of the Bible refers to the definitive list of the books which are considered to be divine revelation and included therein. ...
The Canon of the Bible

During the time of the Apostles, there was no official canon of the New Testament. The canon was not established until or about 393ad. Until that time, many other books which the Catholic Church calls Apocrypha were also considered Scripture by many. Books such as the Gospel of Thomas, the Shepherd of Hermes and the Didache.

Interesting how a book would be preserved for 200 years if it was not used at all.

There you go twisting words. He said, and I quote:

Hebrews wasn't used in the West (by those non-denominational Christians) for two hundred years.

He didn't say it wasn't used at all.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[Tj3]

[QUOTE=De Maria]Well yeah. What does canon mean to you?

During the time of the Apostles, there was no official canon of the New Testament. The canon was not established until or about 393ad. Until that time, many other books which the Catholic Church calls Apocrypha were also considered Scripture by many. Books such as the Gospel of Thomas, the Shepherd of Hermes and the Didache.

This did not address the point at all.

There you go twisting words. He said, and I quote:

Ah yes, so if it was not use by Christians, then who did use it?

[De Maria]

This did not address the point at all.

Sure it does.

Ah yes, so if it was not use by Christians, then who did use it?

My goodness. Do you have that much trouble understanding English? Obviously it was not used by Christians in the West. Therefore it was used by Christians in the East.

[ScottRC]

My goodness. Do you have that much trouble understanding English? Obviously it was not used by Christians in the West. Therefore it was used by Christians in the East.

When you only read anti-Catholic apologetics, some of the real history of the Christian faith slips through the cracks... :(