[lanceauxespines]

Hello: I recently remodeled my home and I am having a problem resolving an issue with a booster pump.

My city water supply is frequently low so I am presently forced to depend on a gravity supply from a tank located at approximately 10 ft above the main house.

The original system was set up with a pump, located at the base of this tank that served as its source. The pump would normally operate on demand but over the course of time it became unreliable.

During the renovation, I relocated the pump to the main house. The tank remains in the original location and continues to be its supply. I have had to open the pump and clean deposits but I continue to have problems getting it to work. I am having difficulty being able to regulate the pump - first it would chatter on and off then it would run continuously and now I have tried to make other adjustments and cannot get it to run. The motor is good. One of the problems I am having is in understanding the pressure tank. It seems to be loaded with water. Is there any way to get the water out? Another is how can I properly adjust this pressure switch? It seems I must have screwed up the differential settings. Finally, should I install a check valve in the line to separate the city supply from the pump discharge to the house? The only benefit I see in doing this is keeping the pressure bottled up in the house and having the pump and the tank be my main supply until such time that the city system does go over the pressure set at the pump or the tank run dry.

Your suggestions would be of great help. Thanks for your time and assistance.

[speedball1]

Hi Lance,
Is it a pressure tank or a bladder tank you'ew asking about?

"how can I properly adjust this pressure switch? It seems I must have screwed up the differential settings"
I'm going to assume that you have a "square D pumptrol,(see image) and that it has a 20 PSI cut in and a 40 PSI cut off setting. First turnoff the power at the breaker box, then pull the cover off the pressure switch and you will see two spring loaded bolts secured with nylon nuts. One tall, one short. To increase the cut in pressure, turn the nut on the tall bolt down. To increase the cut out pressure,(that's the one that will give you more pressure) turn the nut on the short bolt down.

"should I install a check valve in the line to separate the city supply from the pump discharge to the house?" The city supply is separated from the house system with the flost valve.
There should be a check valve installed between the pump and the pressure tank to insure pressure to the house. It should be piped like this: City water to a float valve in the holding tank. From the holding tank it goes through a check valve and drains in to a booster pump and from the pump into the pressure tank. The pressure tank supplies the house with water and the check valve maintains pressure in the system. S more questions? I'm as close as a click, Regards, Tom

[lanceauxespines]

Hi Tom:

Thanks so much for your time.

I have what I believe is a bladder tank. It is a steel tank that apparently has a bladder in it which is to be filled with air. Is that what it is?


Setting the switch: Yes, it is a Square D. I will have to play with it some more. Thanks for the help.

As for the check valves: Yes, I did install the check valve in the suction. I presently have the system configured this way -- From my meter and a check valve, I have a line going up to the tank and one running to the main house. This was the ORIGINAL configuration. With the renovation, I have split the line to the house with one leg to the kitchen (cold water side) and the other runs, buried in the ground, to the laundry room where I have located the pump. Here I tied the main to the rest of the house and to the discharge of the pump. I am considering putting a check valve in that line, in the region of the connection. Please comment.

Thanks again for your help. I will be back at this location in July and hope to get the pump going then.

Best Regards,
Lincoln

[speedball1]

Hey Link.

"As for the check valves: Yes, I did install the check valve in the suction. I presently have the system configured this way -- From my meter and a check valve,"

This configuration isn't what I meant. Yes you have a bladder tank. When you get the other adjustments I'll instruct you on how to test and set the bladder pressure. Read again what I wrote, "City water to a float valve in the holding tank. From the holding tank it goes through a check valve and drains into a booster pump and from the pump into the pressure tank. The pressure tank supplies the house with water and the check valve maintains pressure in the system."
Follow me here, The pump pumps up 45 PSI in the bladder tank and that maintains constant pressure in the house. However without a check valve between the pump and the bladder tank all that pressure will bleed back through the pump into the tank and the pump control will call for pressure and run the pump. This will be a never ending cycle with the pump running continually sand in time will burn out the motor. If you were wondering why your pump runs all the time here's the reason. Install the check valve between the pump and the tank and make the pump, tank and house a closed system. Good luck, Tom

[lanceauxespines]

Tom:

Thanks a lot. Sorry I did not pay particular attention to what was written in the first message. I will try to install a check valve at the pump discharge. Can you please let me know the size of that outlet pipe. Is it 1" or 3/4"? I will try to get on here before going on the trip.

As installed the discharge has a "tee" with the bladder tank in the vertical line and the connection to the system in the horizontal.

I will let you know how I make out.

Cannot thank you enough.

Sincerely,
Lincoln

[speedball1]

" I will try to install a check valve at the pump discharge"\
NO! Go back and read. The [pump MUST remain inside the house system. If the check valve is on the discharge line from the pump when the pump stops pumping the pressure will bleed back starting the pump again. A check valve installed between the tank and the intake/suction line. Any other way will result in excessive wear on the pump and a loss of pressure in the house. Are we together on where the check valve will go? And why? Regards, Tom

[letmetellu]

I am not giving you any information on how to do the plumbing, Tom has already done that well. I just want to say that in my area you can not in any way connnect well water to the same plumbing system without installing an approved air gap system. So you might want to check on this.

[lanceauxespines]

Hello There Letmetellu:

Thanks for the input.

There is no such regulation where I am doing this work. I think that is a good practice. What is a good air gap system? Can you make a recommendation? I am doing this work in the Caribbean.

Thanks
Lincoln

[lanceauxespines]

Tom:

Hope you had an enjoyable Memorial Day weekend!

I did read your message last Friday evening but I thought I should delay my communication till I could get something sketched for you.

In your first response you said “There should be a check valve installed between the pump and the pressure tank to insure pressure to the house. It should be piped like this: City water to a float valve in the holding tank. From the holding tank it goes through a check valve and drains in to a booster pump and from the pump into the pressure tank. The pressure tank supplies the house with water and the check valve maintains pressure in the system.”

I noted the information added by “letmetellu” which echoes what you have advised me to bring the city water only to the tank. So far, because of the present connection, I have been able to fill my toilet tanks (pressurized) when the city pressure is high enough (not something I have been able to do without the pump). When I get the pump fully operational, I would consider disconnecting this attachment or putting a check valve (as represented) and or a Shut-Off valve. I would have to get the tank water tested. Somehow I am not quite confident of the sealer used on the tank walls (concrete tank).

I have prepared a flow diagram so that you can get a visual picture of what I have installed to this point.

I show the suggested check valve between pump and tank – would the proposed installation satisfy that recommendation?

When you have the chance, please comment on the layout in the Flow Diagrams attached.

Thanks Again

Lincoln

[speedball1]

" I will try to install a check valve at the pump discharge"\
"NO! Go back and read. The [pump MUST remain inside the house system. If the check valve is on the discharge line from the pump when the pump stops pumping the pressure will bleed back starting the pump again. A check valve installed between the tank and the intake/suction line. Any other way will result in excessive wear on the pump and a loss of pressure in the house. Are we together on where the check valve will go? And why?"

I guess not. You're still showing the check valve on the discharge side of the pump (Check valve you recommend). Are all those pointy things check valves" I need a little time to study your lay out. I'll get back to you soonest. Regards, Tom

[lanceauxespines]

Hi Tom:

Those pointy things are the check valves and represent free low in the direction of the point. The line across indicates that flow is restricted in the opposite direction.

It may be that there is another scheme you have in mind for the installation of the tank. I have one check into the pump (Suction side -- water from the storage tank) and a check valve sitting several feet away at the meter which would not allow flow to reverse into the main.

I see a problem putting the valve at the discharge of the pump because if the pressure decays across the pump, while the pressure is retained in the bladder tank and house system, this would allow the check valve to seal. The pump could be on its own just cycling all the same.

As I said before, I had opened the pump and cleaned out a lot of build up. When I reassembled it with existing parts, I did not have any leaks. I do not know the integrity of the pump nor do I fully understand the construction to know how quickly the low pressure (inlet) and high Pressure (discharge) are equalized when the pump shuts down. If equalization happens instantaneously, then the pressure should be stabilized to hold the pressure in the house system and in the pump. If the pump is cycling then it would indicate that the pressure switch settings could be way off. And on the other hand it could be that the piping in the yard has a leak, which I have not been able to locate.

There is no emergency, please take your time; I will not be there utill the middle of July.

Thanks

Lincoln

[speedball1]

I am not giving you any information on how to do the plumbing, Tom has already done that well. I just want to say that in my area you can not in any way connnect well water to the same plumbing system without installing an approved air gap system. So you might want to check on this.

Letmeteliu,

There is no well. His source is citywater run to a holding tank and from there to a booster pump. Since the float valve in the tank acts as a air gap he's covered there also Cheers, Tom

[lanceauxespines]

Hi Tom:

I am back on the same subject.

I have been in Grenada since 7/11. I have had good water pressure, from the main, most of the time. I have been chasing after other problems since my arrival and have not yet committed time to the pump.

I leave the island, in a couple days. I do not know if I will have the time to tackle the problem. However, I took a photo of the pump as it is presently piped. You would notice that I have a checkvalve on the suction side and one on the discharge side. This varies from the sketch I had sent earlier. I forgot that I had a checkvalve in the discharge.

I was suggesting that I put in another checkvalve, in the incoming line. From the main, which is piped to the house line in the wall.

Is it o'k, as piped? Could I try to set the switch with this configuration.

Lincoln

[speedball1]

Hi Lance,

I would not install a check valve on the inlet side of the pump. The source is above the pump so the concerns about losing prime does not apply here, however, you will want to contain the boosted pressure in the house system and not bleed it back off into the storage tank and that is what the check valve I recommended on the discharge side of the pumpwill do. This check valve will make the laundry room check valve unnecessary. As it looks like you've already installed a check valve on the discharge side so if the system's working and you have pressure on demand then the job is finished. Good luck, Tom