[Fr_Chuck]

The difference is you don't have to, but you can and do at times, but not near every time, to ask their help. And it still always goes though Christ, but merely asking the saint to also petition God for you

[ScottRC]

I meant that having to go through Mary to do so instead of Jesus does.

No one "has to" go through Mary... but even when they do, it certainly does not negate anything.

Christ is the one mediator. Christ---------> God. That's it.

Problem is, non-Catholics avoid the fact that Scripture does not specifically state there can be no intermediate steps BEFORE we get to the one mediator.

Follow me here:

You------> me ---------> Mary--------> Christ---------> God.

You ask me to say a prayer for you... I ask Mary to intercede... Mary passes along our intentions to her Divine son... and ("No one comes to the Father except through me") through Christ the one mediator our prayers reach God.

Get it? :D

[sndbay]

-
Problem is, non-Catholics avoid the fact that Scripture does not specifically state there can be no intermediate steps BEFORE we get to the one mediator.

That doesn't seem to be a problem to me. Yet it does sufficiently suggest the opposite to what you are declaring.

Jesus tells us everything, including following Him. And John10-27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Pretty sufficient point in my opinon, that John 10:27 makes.

Jesus also tells us inMatthew 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Note: what did he called hypocrites? I see it do you?

Matthew 6:7-8 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
Matthew 6:9-13 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.Give us this day our daily bread.And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Luke 11:1 And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples. And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. Give us day by day our daily bread.And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.


Again John 10-27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

I hear Jesus and I will follow Jesus.. Not traditions or man's way of added to scripture that is done in their own pride.. That's too much like what satan has done. And satan declared similarly to Eve that he knew more than what God offered, and deceived her.. Nope I rebuke what you are saying concerning praying to saints and Mary.. In Jesus Name I will pray

[ScottRC]

Pretty sufficient point in my opinon, that John 10:27 makes.

I guess I'm missing your point... NOTHING in these verses refute anything I said... not even close actually.

Note: what did he called hypocrites? I see it do you?

My friend, I think I've been pretty up-front on this forum... I don't really care for the games... so why don't you just explain what you believe Christ meant when he used the word "hypocrites" please.

I hear Jesus and I will follow Jesus..

Amen... as do I.

Not traditions or man's way of added to scripture that is done in their own pride..

Amen... we agree on this as well.

Nope I rebuke what you are saying concerning praying to saints and Mary.. In Jesus Name I will pray

Super... pray however your conscience guides you... but I'm still waiting for your reasons for your "rebuke".

Nothing you offered states clearly (or at all) that prayers through others to Christ are non-Biblical.

[sndbay]

No one "has to" go through Mary.... but even when they do, it certainly does not negate anything.

Did Christ say to do this? No

Christ is the one mediator. Christ---------> God. That's it.

Christ is the ONLY mediator.. That's it!

You------> me ---------> Mary--------> Christ---------> God.

Me-----> In Jesus Name (Christ)-------> God

Anyone can pray for you, but they do not need you to go through..

You ask me to say a prayer for you... I ask Mary to intercede.... Mary passes along our intentions to her Divine son.... and ("No one comes to the Father except through me") through Christ the one mediator our prayers reach God.

Get it? :D

You have double -barreled your own statement.. That is what I rebuke.

What is spoken in Truth, is that no one comes to the Father except throught Christ...

[sassyT]

I guess I'm missing your point.... NOTHING in these verses refute anything I said... not even close actually.

My friend, I think I've been pretty up-front on this forum.... I don't really care for the games... so why don't you just explain what you believe Christ meant when he used the word "hypocrites" please.

Amen.... as do I.

Amen.... we agree on this as well.

Super... pray however your conscience guides you.... but I'm still waiting for your reasons for your "rebuke".

Nothing you offered states clearly (or at all) that prayers through others to Christ are non-Biblical.

I also rebuke the FALSE this false doctrine of praying to Mary, it has no Biblical basis.

Me--------------------->Christ------------------> GOD

Simple as that.

[sassyT]

You ask me to say a prayer for you... I ask Mary to intercede.... Mary passes along our intentions to her Divine son.... and ("No one comes to the Father except through me") through Christ the one mediator our prayers reach God.

Get it? :D

Praying for one another is Biblical, however asking dead people (mary & saints) to pray for you is not biblical.

[sassyT]

And Saints are not directly prayed to either, you are asking for them to pray for you to Jesus.

.

Why though? These are dead people. They probably don't even know who you are...
Mary is a human being who died, so are the Saints.. she is not a God/Goddess so she does not Possess the omniscience so chances are She does not know who you are and therefor can not hear your prayers

Even angels, demons and the devil himself do not Possess omniscience
Only GOD (father, son, Holy Spirit) is ALL KNOWING, Only He knows us all by name and knows the numbers of hair on our heads.

[ScottRC]

That is what I rebuke.

Okey dokey...

Peace be with you.

[ScottRC]

Praying for one another is Biblical, however asking dead people (mary & saints) to pray for you is not biblical.

Okey dokey...

Peace be with you.