[N0help4u]

It's been said that religious people are somehow able to compartmentalize their brains and do not apply the same logic to their religious beliefs as they would with any other subject. I find this extremely interesting. Like I said, I was the same way. In my case, I'm quite sure it's because I simply didn't think much about it, or when I did, I shut it out of my mind. As soon as I did start thinking about it (and I had to force myself to do so), I quickly became an unbeliever with regards to religion. I'm just curious what the case is with you.

Yeah sort of like a discussion on another post about how science is saying that we are hardwired to believe or not believe.

[lobrobster]

Yeah sorta like a discussion on another post about how science is saying that we are hardwired to believe or not believe.

Now you're getting into the part about belief that fascinates me.

We ARE hardwired to unquestioningly believe our parents and other authority figures as children. It's easy to see how in the past, this has helped us survive. Most things our parents tell us are for our own good and protect us from dangers. 'Don't play with fire', 'don't talk to strangers' is good advice. The problem is, a child has no way of differentiating between good advice and silly advice. So, 'be good because Santa is coming', 'be good so the tooth fairy will leave money if you put a tooth under your pillow', and 'be good because there is an invisible man who answers prayers, and grants life after death', are all equally reasonable to a child.

So it's not religion that we are hardwired to believe, but our parents and authority figures. And for good reason.

[lobrobster]

Hope at least some of this makes sense.

It DOES make sense. At least the part about your faith and how you feel the goodness of God every day. Personally, I think you're feeling something else and imagining it's God, but I won't argue that point.

But surely there are aspects of the bible that contradict how you feel about God. I'm not just talking about the contradictory and wild stories. I'm talking about some of the ways the bible describes God. As someone who is jealous, and strikes plagues upon thousands of people He is mad at. About how God will allow some of your closest friends and loved ones to burn and suffer in hell for all eternity. I KNOW you don't feel good about that, do you?

So putting your personal relationship with God aside, why aren't you more skeptical about the bible? Especially, if some of it doesn't mesh with your own experience of who God is?

[Allheart]

Hi again lobrobster,

Like I was saying earlier, in school and even now, I don't keep my head in the bible, I probably should. So, I guess that's why I don't have any conflict with it.

Keep in mind, God doesn't allow anyone to burn in hell, it's a choice that we make while
Living here on earth. I think and believe, that those who God has blessed with beautiful intelligence and denies that God exsist, are the ones who are in most danger of going to hell. Way before some of those who may have killed or committed some other horrible act.
I say that, because there may be something very wrong with them, and God will know that.

But for those who have been blessed with so very much and then choose to turn away,
They are the ones I truly do fear for the most.

I know it's God's love in my heart and mind and I don't imagine it. Truly I don't. I promise you, he carried me through my entire childhood. And each day, I am so thankful.

[tsila1777]

You mean that logical thinking is completely exchanged for faith and belief ?
Yes, that seems for many here a correct assumption ....

:D :D :D :D :D


From the context and various posts here in this topic it was clear that this referred to the Bible. And the Bible was written by human beings that were claimed to be inspired by the deity referred to as the Christian God.

.

·

If this seems clear to you that I was referring to the Bible, then your thinking is not clear at all. You are way off, badly mistaken as to what was meant by that statement. Confusion can be a sign that something is medically wrong with you.

Although the Bible does have some history, it is inspired by God And God is able to make sure His Word is correct even though human hands wrote it, God was still in charge and would not allow it to be corrupted.

You are the reason Jesus came into the world to save sinners. To bring us out of darkness into His marvelous light so that we could understand the will of God for our lives and His wonderful plan of redemption.

However we can chose to stay in darkness and only believe what we see. But there will be a time when every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God.

If you must wait to see it to believe it, then wait... it won't be that long and then you will believe, but it will be too late to do anything about it.

Faith believes what it cannot see, that's why it is called faith. I hope you find it.

[tsila1777]

Well I appreciated it. I laughed because it so logical and incontrovertible and so utterly inaccessible to those to whom you are writing. Faith, clearly, is not about logic.

But it does seem unfair for believers to argue that the existence of God is not subject to proof but that unbelievers are under some sort of obligation to justify not believing. I think we should be able to play by the same rules.

I don't think believers think you need to justify not believing. We just wonder why you are on this site if you don't believe or don't want some reason to believe.

There are many sites here for you to visit, so, for all the unbelievers, I would like to ask you, why are you here if you have no desire to learn the truth?

[tsila1777]

This is just sad. You may as well say I don't believe in math. Or I don't believe in education. It's especially a shame, because you are obviously well read and educated.

I can only hope you don't have children and if you do, that they aren't as proud of their ignorance as you seem to be.



Maybe you would if a group of people were trying to get two-headed monster intelligent design taught in schools. Or fought to stop stem cell research and other ways to help humanity because it goes against what the two-headed monster told a few people 2000 years ago, or if wars kept breaking out over disagreements of which land was promised to whom by the two-headed monster, or if some wanted to cut your head off because they believe in a 1-headed monster instead. Then just maybe, you'd want to stop the madness.

Do you not recognize a jape when you see one? To say I do not believe in science was a droll statement to amuse those who think they are so intelligent yet live in darkness.

First you say I am well read and intelligent then you call me ignorant. Isn't that like saying someone is pretty ugly? By the way my daughter is a doctor, GP, and my son is president of a bank.

And you totally missed my point about the two headed monster. I don't think you are capable of understand the paronomasia, so there is no point in trying to explain it further to you.

I hope you find what you are looking for, which is obviously some foundation for faith in the One True God; Or else you would be on a site other than religion.

I can't imagine why one who does not believe would visit here unless they needed/wanted a reason to believe.

[Unknown008]

... Well said tsila1777!

[NeedKarma]

I don't think believers think you need to justify not believing. We just wonder why you are on this site if you don't believe or don't want some reason to believe.

There are many sites here for you to visit, so, for all the unbelievers, I would like to ask you, why are you here if you have no desire to learn the truth?

Everyone is a believer in something and everyone is a unbeliever in other things. For instance if you are a christian you are an unbeliever/have rejected other religions and gods.

There is no "the truth". That's a word that has been hijacked by a few christian denominations and turned into one with religious overtones. Something that is true depends not on one's religion.

This forum is titled "Religious Discussions" on a question/answer board that covers all subjects and thus all are welcome. Surely you could find aome internet boards where you will surrounded by others who think exactly like you, then you could all agree.

[Credendovidis]

There is no "the truth". That's a word that has been hijacked by a few christian denominations and turned into one with religious overtones.

Hear , hear , hear!!

:rolleyes:

·

[lobrobster]

First you say I am well read and intelligent then you call me ignorant. Isn't that like saying someone is pretty ugly?

They should put the definition for the word 'ignorant' in a FAQ, because no one seems to know what it means. Ignorant does NOT mean dumb, stupid, or intellectually weak. It simply means to have a 'lack of knowledge' about some particular subject. We are ALL ignorant about some things.

]I can't imagine why one who does not believe would visit here unless they needed/wanted a reason to believe.

Because religion causes division and war in the world and clearly some people are capable of doing some pretty scary things based on blind faith. I'm concerned about that and like to see how the theistic mind works. I'd also like to help people think more logically if possible. Again, many people believe only because they have never really taken the time to think about their religion for themselves.

[tsila1777]

Hear ye, hear ye, hear ye... Jesus is the Truth, and the Life. He said so Himself. Duh!;)

This forum is titled "Religious Discussions" on a question/answer board

What was the question here, do you remember? And is this your answer?

But tell me please, of all the other boards on here, why do you chose this one? will no one answer that question? I realize you have a right to be here, but my question is why are you here, if it is not to find some reason to believe, then tell me why. If you can. If not, tell me why you can't answer, or just continue to ignore the hard questions and make unwitty comments about other things in my post.


"Surely you could find aome/some internet boards where you will surrounded by others who think exactly like you, then you could all agree."

I have tried other boards marked specifically for CHRISTAINS and non-believers and anthesis come in there also. They won't answer my question either, except to say 'they have rights!' It seems to be more and more that everyone has rights except Christians.

So, I wonder, why are 'they' trying to shut us up? Why do they continue to harrass us? Could it be that prophesy is being fulfilled, and the end is drawing near?

You know, I bet that's it!

[tsila1777]

They should put the definition for the word 'ignorant' in a FAQ, because no one seems to know what it means. Ignorant does NOT mean dumb, stupid, or intellectually weak. It simply means to have a 'lack of knowledge' about some particular subject. We are ALL ignorant about some things.




Because religion causes division and war in the world and clearly some people are capable of doing some pretty scary things based on blind faith. I'm concerned about that and like to see how the theistic mind works. I'd also like to help people think more logically if possible. Again, many people believe only because they have never really taken the time to think about their religion for themselves.

So you do admit you are ignorant. :D

I'm so glad someone is keeping an eye on what causes division and war, and I sure hope, that by monitoring this board, you are able to stop any that should arise. Thank you so much for your sacrifice and dedication.

Christianity is not a religion, it's a way of life. I hate religion. Religion is against God. And blind faith in a religion is a scary thing, indeed!

So I guess we agree on that also; that's two things we have agreed on here, wow that's great isn't it?

[tsila1777]

Please, I didn't intend this to be a post for debate or arguments... I just wanted to know how people can believe in something they don't have conclusive evidence for... and if they do have evidence, what is it? How do they progress from feeling there is something more to understanding what that something more is and being confident about it, especially when there are so many ideas out there.

That's all.

I'm sorry. You are so right. This should Never have gotten to this point. You asked a question, and you wanted an answer.

This is the best one I have for you: Faith is not based on what we can see, but on what we cannot see.

For if we can see it, then why would we need faith?

Without faith it is impossible to please God, He does everything by faith, He gives you the faith to be saved, and He is only moved by that faith. He is not moved by your needs, wants or anything else, only by faith. He has provided everything anyone needs.

He has already provided everything that everyone needs... but it is obtained by faith.

To understand that "something": God and His Word are One, if you want to understand God, then read His Word. The Word says, He will give wisdom to them that ask Him. Ask Him to give you wisdom and understanding, He is faithful to His Word and He will guide you into all truth.

Thomas, in the Bible, said "unless I see I will not believe", for that he was rebuked by Jesus, and was nicknamed 'doubting thomas'. Jesus said to him, because you see you now believe, but BLESSED, (HAPPY AND TO BE ENVIED) are the ones who believe without seeing.

If you want to base your faith on solid evidence, then I can't help you. No one can. No can prove God or disprove Him. But one who has faith can know for sure that He is and is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.

The Word says, "Hebrews 11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith is your solid, conclusive evidence.


How do you make progress, usually slowly.. but through reading His Word, spending time with Him, talking and listening to Him, fasting. But you must first decide to believe, we are given free will. We can chose to believe, some call it blind faith, others call it Grace. Or we can chose to ignore the Precious Gift of Salvation. We are saved by faith through grace and that is not of ourselves but it is a gift from God.




Your faith must be based on God's Word, not what other people say. There are many religions, I hate religion, there are many who would deny God is real, there are many opinions out there, but if you want the answer you seek, then it is in the Word of God and not on this message board.

I pray God will show you the truth, that He Himself will lead and guide you, that His Spirit will come upon you and speak to you as unto a man, I pray God in all His infinite wisdom and power and wonder will send someone, if it be an angel, to talk with you and show you the way. Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. He is the Only way to God, and He died for your sins and was raised for you justification. I pray you will seek Him with a pure heart, and decide to trust in Him also. I know God hears my prayers, and I know that when I pray He answers me. I give Him thanks now for what He is doing even now in your life and spirit. Receive now by faith and walk in newness of life. Peace and joy forever. In His Holy Name, the Blessed Name of Jesus I pray, Amen! So be it!

[NeedKarma]

But tell me please, of all the other boards on here, why do you chose this one? will no one answer that question?

I don't just choose this one, I make posts on many groups just like you. I see you posted in Law, Relationships and Computers. I have already attempted to answer the question if you had read this whole thread.

I noticed your very sarcastic response to lobrobster, I get an idea of what kind of person you are from that.

[tsila1777]

Yes, I was being sarcasctic, but it was all in fun and I think he will take it that way. If not, I'm sure he will tell me so.

As I didn't read the thread,(or if I did I didn't understand your answer as being an answer) I would like to ask you: do you also monitor this board to prevent wars?

[tsila1777]

... Well said tsila1777!

Thanks Unk.. :)

[Unknown008]

Christianity is not a religion, it's a way of life. I hate religion. Religion is against God. And blind faith in a religion is a scary thing, indeed!

I agree with you. Christianity, for me, is considered more as a relation with God.

do you also monitor this board to prevent wars?

Not really but I try to do the best I can to help people. 'cauz here, there seems to be christians in danger!

[Nestorian]

So you do admit you are ignorant. :D

I'm so glad someone is keeping an eye on what causes division and war, and I sure hope, that by monitoring this board, you are able to stop any that should arise. Thank you so much for your sacrifice and dedication.

Christianity is not a religion, it's a way of life. I hate religion. Religion is against God. And blind faith in a religion is a scary thing, indeed!

So I guess we agree on that also; that's two things we have agreed on here, wow that's great isn't it?

Um..? You totally contradic yourself there, with such conviction that I wonder if you caught it? "Christianity is not a religion, it's a way of life." Religion by deffinition: a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, (esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies),.
Take note here--->... usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a "moral code governing the conduct of human affairs." In other words, a way of life, a way of living life, or as it says conducting life. Just thought I'd point that out. No need for hostility, I'm just curious about your belief, that's all. Can often be a view point for understanding one's actions.

Why am I here, same reason as any one I suppose, to learn... Learning, as I've learned, requires us to ask questions, and to add our own thoughts/comments/even emotions. That's how we communicate. Most will areguee that they are right, others are wrong, and seldome do you hear about some one addmitting to being wrong. Right and wrong are just words, implying a meaning, that people believe in. How is it that belief plays a role in what words mean? Well the word it's self is the meaning of it's deffinition, however, some meanings are rather debatable.

Faith for example, means "to have confidence or trust in a person or thing with out the need of proof." (at least in the context I'm using it.) Yet, I've bin told by so many people who "beleive" in a (a religion A.K.A. a Belief.) They say have faith in "such and such", when you ask a question about how they know it's real or not, they try to provide proof. Thus discrediting their statement to have faith, faith has no evidence, but belief does and I've bin confronted by that as well, "why not believe?"

Now on to belief, "confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof. (precise proof)" (I added the bracketed comment for my own benafit, so no I don't think your dumb.) Any way they provide evidence, or what they believe is proof that their statement is valid. However, I've bin noticing that people are using proof that is not "rigorous proof" So their belief becomes a faith or maybe an opinion. But wait there is a another deffinition for belief: something believed; an opinion or conviction. (A conviction is a firm belief?? ) [Opinion a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty. But this contradicts what the others say, about precision, and firm qualities? ] The only thing that seems fixed is that all of these are baised on what we "THINK". Evidence implies something is true, or fauls, that doesn't mean it's absolute. ("Only a sith deals in absolutes!" - General Ben Kenobi) We decide/interpret in our brain, or is it our mind, weather these implications are true, or valid, etc?
Being mindful of what was, what is and what maybe, yet remaining open to the moment and any possibility is very helpful in these types of situations. Helps us understand and learn in a relaxed and non-threatoning way. Nothing can be right and nothing can be wrong, because that is opinion/belief, which seems to be in our heads and abstract: exsisting as a quality or idea rather than a matierial object; theoretical.

As we all know thoughts are in our heads (minds), and no one can prove or disprove they are 100% in our control. So many factors to consider, the brain, which interacts with the body to tell us of and interacts with our environment, which fulfills our needs, which keep us alive, is where the mind dwells; or does it dwell in the spirit, or elsewhere. The mind is abstract, so is the spirit, so does it not make sense that the mind would be within the spirt/ or visversa, not in the brain? Could it be both? How do we tell??

Yes a seemingly never ending riddle to which there does not seem to be an asolute answer. No way of observing, or is there? So what do we know about our thoughts? Well, that is a Psychological (a scientific study of mental processes and behavior.) question to begin with. The reason being: toughts are generally believed to be constructed in the head/brain by our mind. We know the brain is the control center of our body, there for it controls our actions, and responds to stimuli (not an absolute fact, for all we know the mind could be the control senter and the brain a tool to preform tasks with.)

(personally, I think that thoughts are stimuli. Sent from where? Maybe our spirit, by our mind and interpreted within the brain, the sixth sense receptor, and the sixth sense being thought.)

But that's just me and my own belief, I have no "real" evidence of such a claim. So maybe it's a faith thing, though I do not live my life around it. I keep it in mind, let it guid me, but if some one has proof of something else, yet does not disprove my theory, I'll still have faith in it, but I may believe in the other persons evidence. Something more stable, but I don't ignore or discredit the other.

Back to the point, so if thoughts are stimuli, then what is the respons to them? Or are they a response to something else? How do we prove that the brain is a sense receptor for the mind/ or spirit/soul, perhaps they are one of the same? All we know is that the general public has thoughts, and thoughts are influenced by many things. Such as, Biochemistry, neurochemistry of the brain, the body, how what we eat affects the brain, by way of blood, and vitamins, minerals, drugs, etc ,so that's interaction of our mental/abstract self with our Physical self, by way of the elements/ chemicals of the environment sense reseptors/neurons, and such. Once again How the things we consume: sun light, Food, pills and the things we do: eating, sleep, acting (since working out can create endorphines.) affect the chemistry of our brains. Thus affecting how we receive Stimuli from our mind/spirit, or how we interpret that information, and also how we respond to it.

So then does that mean this is a Biological question?? What effects our brains? Well, how we choose to eat, how we choose to act, how we choose to think, how we choose to Feel... Wow wow, Choose to Feel?? I thought feelings were voluntary? True, a portion I'm sure is voluntary, but also a portion we can control. How so, well has any one heard of anger management? What about relaxation programs, and fear thearopy? Well, this is like a Philosophical question now, Why do we choose to feel how we feel?

By what we think, and how we act/ react, and the things we eat, how we "choose" to live. Yes, there are more, but it seems like none of these things have anything to do with out side influences. What about when a loved one dies, or we are forced to do displeasruable, oftain painful things? True, we will feel many things if in a situation where we are forced against our will, but it won't last for ever. Though it may seem harsh to think this way: It was our choice that lead us to this situation, Even if you never met a person, or was asked to walk to a friends house late at night because they "needed" you, you chose to take that step out the door, or if it happens at home, you chose to be at home. (THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT SOME ONE WHO IS RAPPED OR MURDERED IS TO BLAME!! ) It simply means they made a choice, and probably unknowingly walking into a bad situation. See it takes faith to walk out your door, because there is no proof that you will get back safely, just because something is one way previously, doesn't mean it will be that way this time. Every moment is new and fresh. We can learn to cope with such things with counsoling, and learning to live our lives again, being interested in what we are doing, and deciding which direction we are going to take. We do have the past to remind us, but it doesn't have to control us, try be prepared for anything, or rather open and let what will happen happen, and what won't, won't.

Wow this is super long and I"m having a hard time remembering where i am. I think it's time to let you all read this and tell me what you think...

If you're confused as to what the heck this has to do with the topic: "What the heck is 'faith' all about, and how can you really 'believe'?", notice how I've gone and defined a lot of those key words, Faith, belief. Now I'm explaining how our minds/brains/possibly spirits effect one another, and how they interact with one another...

Peace be with you all.

[N0help4u]

Many Christians have gotten tired of religion because it involves a lot of man's rituals and traditions and less to do about a real relationship with God. I am with Tsila and unknown on that one.
Many religions are so far away from God. The Bible even says so It says many will come in my name and I will say I never knew you. Many say Lord, Lord while their heart is far from him. Christians that are breaking away from religion have more of a heart to heart with God and they realize no man made formulas are going to get them close to God.

Someone once said that religion is man reaching out to God; Christianity is allowing God to reach you

***Religious people go to church on Sunday and live like hell the rest of the week
Real Christians live their faith seven days a week