[Credendovidis]

DeMaria, Credendovidis was insulting you and others. :) He's an atheist. I was told by management that since there is no atheist board, this is the board I can use to have discussion with religionists and other atheists. So, knock off your attitude toward me. :)

Dear MS :

I try not to insult people. But many here have extremely long religious toes, on which it is easy to stand, even when you do not intend to do so. What people like De Maria do not understand is that I have here just the same right to express my views as a theist has to express his/her religious views.
Please note that we are both Secular Humanists. Use than name. Some people here get so easily upset... Let's not ruin their piece of peace of mind...

:)

[Fr_Chuck]

This is the Religious discussion board, all religions from Christians, Islam, Buddhist, no faith, or the ** what is it the pasta god or something they joke about

So in this all sides must keep it very "friendly" to a point, I believe Choux was wrong I do not see Credendovidis as insulting as merely being direct
Posting on these disccusion boards require a little tough skin.

[Credendovidis]

... I do not see Credendovidis as insulting as merely being direct
Posting on these disccusion boards require alittle tough skin.

"Amen" to that Fr. Chuck !

;)

[Fr_Chuck]

"Amen" to that Fr. Chuck !

;)

? Was that a prayer we caught you in?

May get you doing a hail mary before it is over

[Choux]

I apologize, Credendo, I made a mistake; you are always gentlemanly. I just get so frustrated dealing with Christian troublemakers that it gets the best of me. :)

Again, so sorry!

[Fr_Chuck]

Can anybody give advice on what makes you a mature Christian? Maybe share some examples. I'm considering St. Paul's advice to become mature in your faith, to not need milk like a babe. I mean so many I know are constantly going over the same old themes, Garden of Eden, Moses' life story, Noah and the Ark. Constantly rehashing every little piece of Scripture (should THIS be taken literally??) like their life depended on it. Or those I know that talk behind my back or think they can't play certain songs or use certain bad words around me. I mean, get real. Is it reaching outside your self, truly caring about other people whether they do in return? I will consider any answers you've got.

There are something that even if you don't beleve in a God may still have some historical correctness. For Moses, there is some digs showing the lack of use of straw in the making of the bricks and death of the first born, that do connect with the slaves leaving. Now does that make Moses real, for a Christian yes, for a non christian it may only mean that there was some real facts of history included in the writing of the bible.

As for the Flood,Noah there are again digs that show a major regional flood over what would have been the known world at that time. Ok, not a world wide flood but to me good enough to prove there was a flood to others it may go on to say no it was just a local flood
And of course the ark would be rotted away by most guesses and would really the finding of a large boat some place where it should not be, really prove it to the unbeleiver.

So at the worst, to a Christian, there are evidences that something happened similar to the bible story. For the Chistian we teach that this is how it happened, the non will say ( if they believe the facts happened ) was that perhaps in Egypt there was a slave revolt and the slaves left and latter in story had their god saving them, or in the flood since a few people did survive, they were told that it was their god.

To me I have my faith and belief so I don't doubt it ( bible) as the truth.

[Credendovidis]

?? was that a prayer we caught you in??
May get you doing a hail mary before it is over

LOL!!
Didn't you notice that I posted "Amen" instead of Amen ?

;)

[Credendovidis]

I apologize, Credendo, I made a mistake; you are always gentlemanly. I just get so frustrated dealing with Christian troublemakers that it gets the best of me. :) Again, so sorry!

No problem at all, dear MS, and no need to apologize!! I assumed that already more or less !
:)

[wildandblue]

Well, I've been driving and riding in cars and trucks and farm machinery for over 60 years, and I've never had even one serious accident or injury. Nor have I ever had a life-threatening or disabling illness. Do I have better evidence for God's existence than you do?

Well to me this shows God believes quite a bit in you, whether you return the favor. And Jesus is heavily into agriculture, you know. He calls Himself a shepherd tending his flock. You and I can learn a lot from this guy, if we just listen to His voice.

[ordinaryguy]

Well to me this shows God believes quite a bit in you, whether or not you return the favor.

I take it as a given that God believes in me, but I doubt that he's much concerned about whether I return the favor. And I don't think what happens in the physical world, whether "good" or "bad", reflects in any way on his attitude toward me personally.

[wildandblue]

[to reply to Ordinary Guy]Well remember the story about how God would leave 99 sheep in the wilderness just to go back to look for one who was straying. About how there's much joy in heaven when a sinner returns to the fold. About how the loyal son got jealous over the fuss his father made when the prodigal son returned home to his family. And when you raise a child, if he does the wrong thing later, maybe gets into trouble, you yourself feel personally responsible--maybe I wasn't a good father, maybe I didn't raise him right? Is it my fault he turned out like that? And even if you know you tried your best you suspect other people are thinking that sort of thing, and you'd feel bad. So I try to make any passing thoughts God might have about me,his child, hopefully good ones...

[Credendovidis]

Well remember the story about how God would leave 99 sheep in the wilderness .....

Precisely : a story you may or may not believe. The bible is full of them...

;)

[wildandblue]

Precisely : a story you may or may not believe. The bible is full of them ...

;)

Well the Bible is a book. Books are full stories. This particular book has been proofread by hundreds of thousands of people, so maybe the facts have been checked for accuracy a little more thoroughly than your average book. And many of the people in there are known to have existed, they are not made up fictional characters. You can sort of learn from other people's mistakes without having to repeat them yourself.

[Credendovidis]

Well the Bible is a book. Books are full stories.

So far we agree...

As I just posted to sassyT :

If the Bible is the book by God for all human beings, and that God is all powerful and omniscient, etc. than why does the Bible contain so many of these faults?
Note that these faults are not translation faults. Neither are they printing faults. They are faults that are the result of different human scribents introducing some story they heard earlier into their paper that later was used to make up the Bible.

A deity that is claimed to be perfect and that is claimed to have created the entire universe with everything in it in 6 days only, seems incapable of producing fault free Bibles in all languages that every human being can understand without the need for a weekly interpreter located in a big house with a huge tower on top of it...

What a poor qualities for a deity that is claimed to be "perfect"!!

:D

[wildandblue]

Well Jesus started with a couple of fishermen, men who were "unlettered and ordinary" He wasn't publishing a book, he never wrote a gospel, that was done by the Apostles and others further down the line to witness to people after those men were gone. Jesus mainly spoke face to face with people. I mean anybody that is thinking the Bible is so important, have they read the passage in Ezekiel where it says, throw this book away into the water after you have read it? Don't see too many Bibles floating around when you go down to the water.

[ordinaryguy]

So I try to make any passing thoughts God might have about me,his child, hopefully good ones....

I'm sure they are, but the safety and health of our physical body isn't the way to test him, because eventually, that well will dry up.

You can sort of learn from other people's mistakes without having to repeat them yourself.

Yep, and from their successes as well. That's what stories are for, it seems to me. Strict correspondence with actual historical events and persons isn't what makes them useful or important.

[wildandblue]

Yes that's why in my original question I spoke about people who pick over every little scrap of Scripture like their life depended on it.

[Credendovidis]

... the passage in Ezekiel where it says, throw this book away into the water after you have read it ...

Well : I did read it, and than I did throw it away afterwards. Have you not seen it floating around ?

:D

[wildandblue]

Well : I did read it, and than I did throw it away afterwards. Have you not seen it floating around ?

:D

You go girl!:D

[wildandblue]

Well I looked through Ezekiel trying to find that passage, or was it in Daniel? Haven't tossed my Bible away yet, you know. And there is a lot of stuff in Ezekiel about mature faith, the shepherd caring for the sheep not just feeding himself. Of course Ezekiel is in the Old Testament so it doesn't actually say Christian maturity.