[inthebox]

You should read this book:

Amazon.com: The Year of Living Biblically: One Man's Humble Quest to Follow the Bible as Literally as Possible: A. J. Jacobs: Books

And here's an interview with the author:

What Happens When an Agnostic Follows the Bible Literally for One Year? | The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss

Funny, I like the one about his wife retaliating by sitting in all the seats in the house. :D

Maybe he skipped Paul's epistles, especially Galatians.

[jrebel7]

Funny, I like the one about his wife retaliating by sitting in all the seats in the house. :D

Maybe he skipped Paul's epistles, especially Galatians.

Hey there! I have to agree. I wanted to say to his wife, "Hey, you go girl!" Her response was so humorous. It sounded like he thought she was being pretty creative and found humor in it also!

Goodness!! All so interesting, this world we live in! :)

[jillianleab]

Funny, I like the one about his wife retaliating by sitting in all the seats in the house. :D

Maybe he skipped Paul's epistles, especially Galatians.

Stoning the adulterer was pretty funny too... :)

[workerbee]

I think we are getting off subject. If you take the Bible literally it is wrong. The Bible mentions the Earth having four corners, didn't God know

workerbee

[Fr_Chuck]

Not when taken into the context of what is being said, the issue of taking it literal is when non believers want to make fun of it and try and use it to hurt the beleivers instead of minding their own business and leaving something they don't believe in alone.

[jillianleab]

Sorry, workerbee, I guess we did get a little off topic. The book I linked to, however, illustrates that if you take the bible absolutely literally, it's rather silly. No poly cotton blends, no colored clothes, no hair cuts, no sitting where a "dirty" woman has been... it's absurd.

But in a way I agree with Chuck; a lot of effort from non-believers (not on this site specifically) is thrust into making believers question their faith - why? I get it if you've been attacked or targeted; like when someone who is a "good christian" cheats on their spouse, lies on their taxes and has the nerve to tell me I'm going to hell, but short of that, it tends to be a wasted effort.

People who follow the bible will always find a way to excuse the inconsistencies; it's about context or it's a literary device... and sometimes, it is. Sometimes they won't come up with an excuse, they'll just ignore you. But there is almost always a way of justification for their thoughts and behaviors. I guess it bothers you a bit more than it bothers me.

One thing you have to remember - people who really, really, fully believe in god, the bible, whatever, aren't going to have their faith shaken by someone on the Internet. No doubt they've heard the arguments and points before, and they've found a way of reconciling the problem with their faith. So unless you are trying to start a conversation about the literalness of the bible (ie, how they reconcile such-and-such passage), all this thread is, and all it will amount to, is an argument. And THAT just adds to the theist claim that all the non-believers on this site do is "attack" them. Let's not fuel the fire.

[classyT]

Not when taken into the context of what is being said, the issue of taking it literal is when non believers want to make fun of it and try and use it to hurt the beleivers instead of minding thier own business and leaving something they don't beleive in alone.

Fr_

That is the problem. The Word must be rightly divided and not pulled out of context. The apostle Paul says that it is foolishness to them that do not believe and it is spiritually discerned. So, let them laugh, shake their heads, or fists (some really hate the sovereignty of God). Truth will ALWAYS be truth and as my mother always says... the truth always comes out. :)

[De Maria]

I think we are getting off subject.

I'm glad you noticed.

If you take the Bible literally it is wrong.

If I may correct that attitude a bit. If you take the Bible out of context, you are wrong.

Its like someone telling you that its raining "cats and dogs". If you interpret that to mean that you will literally see cats and dogs falling from the sky, then you are wrong. Not the person making the statement because he knows that he means its raining "heavily".

The Bible mentions the Earth having four corners, didn't God know

There you go. A perfect example of taking the Bible out of context. The four corners of the earth means the four extremes of the earth, the four directions, East, West, North and South.

So, God did and does know that anyone reading the Bible in good faith will understand this verse correctly, because that is what is meant by anyone who says, "the four corners of the earth".

Sincerely,

De Maria

[De Maria]

You know, Jillian, I feel sorry for people who don't know what they are saying. Do you know what the word "condescending" means? You might want to look it up and see if your attitude towards Christians doesn't fit that description.

Sorry, workerbee, I guess we did get a little off topic.

I'm glad you admitted that.

The book I linked to, however, illustrates that if you take the bible absolutely literally, it's rather silly. No poly cotton blends, no colored clothes, no hair cuts, no sitting where a "dirty" woman has been... it's absurd.

Correct. Its kind of strange that anyone had to illustrate that for you. Isn't it obvious that if you take anyone absolutely literally that will lead to absurd results?

Just one example, do you ever "take" your car to work? Obviously, your car takes you, otherwise you'll have one awesome back ache.

So, in reading the Bible, care should be taken not only to understand it in the language into which it is translated, but also to understand the culture and idioms of the people who originally wrote it.

But in a way I agree with Chuck; a lot of effort from non-believers (not on this site specifically) is thrust into making believers question their faith - why?

I don't know, Jillian. You seem that sort to me.

I get it if you've been attacked or targeted; like when someone who is a "good christian" cheats on their spouse, lies on their taxes and has the nerve to tell me I'm going to hell, but short of that, it tends to be a wasted effort.

Have any Christians actually told you that you are going to hell? I doubt it. Its probably more like you've come to the conclusion based on logical inference and your prior knowledge of Christianity.

1. You know that you were raised Christian.
2. You know that Christianity teaches that if you abandon Christ you will go to hell.
3. So, now that you've abandoned Christ, you have that hanging over your head.
4. And since we don't deny it, you claim we are condemning you to hell.

No, it is your own conscience. If you didn't believe it, you wouldn't worry about it so.

People who follow the bible will always find a way to excuse the inconsistencies;

In other words, people who follow the Bible are unreasonable hypocrites.

That is all that you have said. You want to make this sound like a reasonable message but underlying the nice "feel" of it, you have underlying insult and innuendo against any believers.

it's about context or it's a literary device... and sometimes, it is. Sometimes they won't come up with an excuse, they'll just ignore you. But there is almost always a way of justification for their thoughts and behaviors. I guess it bothers you a bit more than it bothers me.

No, I'm pretty sure, from the number of anti-Christian messages you write, that it bothers you just as much as it bothers him.

One thing you have to remember - people who really, really, fully believe in god, the bible, whatever, aren't going to have their faith shaken by someone on the Internet.

Perhaps.

No doubt they've heard the arguments and points before,

Many faithful Christians avoid arguments with non-believers precisely because there is very little that can be said to someone who wishes to hold an illogical conclusion as truth.

and they've found a way of reconciling the problem with their faith.

Problem? No. The one with the problem is the person reading it out of context. You for instance. As for us, we know what it means.

So unless you are trying to start a conversation about the literalness of the bible (ie, how they reconcile such-and-such passage), all this thread is, and all it will amount to, is an argument.

Perhaps. It would be nice if atheists would not resort to insult and innuendo whenever they can't get agreement of their beliefs.

And THAT just adds to the theist claim that all the non-believers on this site do is "attack" them. Let's not fuel the fire.

First, you should set the example. Then give advice. Because this message which you wrote was obviously constructed to fuel the fire. Or if it wasn't, you don't understand the meaning of the words you have written.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[Shaylynn Denilo]

I was raised a bible believeing christan. A 'literally' bible believeing christan. And that's what I was. Until I was about 14. Then I started to READ the bible. Lets just say a few years later, I'm a deist. I hate how when you challage christans they get so defensive, its like they know they have to defend there faith. Well defending you're faith is good, right?

Faith in what? God.
Allmighty god.
You're defending allmighty god. Do you realise that? Allmighty-all seeing, everywhere, all knowing, all loving.
Why do you need to defend him? Why doesn't he just come down and talk to everyone?
Oh wait.
That'd mess with there free will. But wait? Dident this God already come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God already come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will?
We've reached a paradox. Thus I am a deist.

[michealb]

I've noticed a pattern Jillianleab says something very smart that the fundies don't really have an answer for so instead they resort to personal attacks instead of sticking to the issue. I guess it's okay to attack someone as long as they aren't a fundie.

[De Maria]

I've noticed a pattern Jillianleab says something very smart that the fundies don't really have an answer for so instead they resort to personal attacks instead of sticking to the issue. I guess it's okay to attack someone as long as they aren't a fundie.

She said something very smart? Let me see, she said,

People who follow the bible will always find a way to excuse the inconsistencies;

But there is almost always a way of justification for their thoughts and behaviors.

and they've found a way of reconciling the problem with their faith.

So unless you are trying to start a conversation about the literalness of the bible (ie, how they reconcile such-and-such passage), all this thread is, and all it will amount to, is an argument. And THAT just adds to the theist claim that all the non-believers on this site do is "attack" them. Let's not fuel the fire.

Sounds to me as though she's making an insidious attack on Christians and Christian beliefs, clothing them as a friendly chatter with another nonbeliever.

But if you can show me where she provided any facts whatsoever, and where she said good which wasn't already obvious to anyone with any sense (i.e. absolute literalness leads to absurd results), I'm listening. Or if you can show me where she said anything that wasn't insulting, demeaning or condescending towards believers in the Bible, I'm listening.

Has it even occurred to you or she that Christians don't all take the Bible absolutely literally? In fact, most Christians do not. And has it occurred to you or she that even some nonChristians and atheists take the Bible absolutely literally? That is why they don't understand it. I doubt that either of you has realized that point. Because obviously, you have both taken this thread as another opportunity to attack Christians, when the subject matter of this thread is not completely about Christians, but about anyone "taking the Bible literally."

And so, as I've said before, I've also noticed a pattern. Nonbelievers and antiChristians believe they can say whatever they want about Christians, insult them anyway they want, without repercussion of any sort. And if anyone dares to respond in kind, why they are the trouble makers.

But, I've to make another point. I actually have come to believe that Jillian doesn't know what she is saying. Judging from her response to our reaction to her messages, she seems to think she is the pinnacle of good taste and manners. And that's sad. Because obviously, she'll keep insulting us without realizing she's insulting us. And when we inform her that she's insulting us, she'll keep saying, "Why are you persecuting me?"

Sincerely,

De Maria

[workerbee]

I was raised a bible believeing christan. A 'literally' bible believeing christan. And thats what I was. Untill I was about 14. Then I started to READ the bible. Lets just say a few years later, I'm a deist. I hate how when you challage christans they get so defensive, its like they know they have to defend there faith. Well defending you're faith is good, right?

Faith in what? God.
Allmighty god.
You're defending allmighty god. Do you realise that? Allmighty-all seeing, everywhere, all knowing, all loving.
Why do you need to defend him? Why doesn't he just come down and talk to everyone?
Oh wait.
That'd mess with there free will. But wait?! Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will?
We've reached a paradox. Thus I am a deist.

I am glad you question things unlike the fundies. In a few years you will be an Atheist
Like me. The rest of you always say the same taken out of context. I could go into more examples but taken out of context will be the answer. The Bible says many things that are flat out wrong.

ANSWER Taken out of context. You Fundies should not be afraid of questioning things in the Bible.

[De Maria]

I am glad you question things unlike the fundies. in a few years you will be an Atheist
like me. The rest of you always say the same taken out of context. I could go into more examples but taken out of context will be the answer. The Bible says many things that are flat out wrong.

ANSWER Taken out of context. You Fundies should not be afraid of questioning things in the Bible.

Not necessarily, I was an atheist and now I'm a devout Catholic.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[De Maria]

I was raised a bible believeing christan. A 'literally' bible believeing christan. And thats what I was. Untill I was about 14. Then I started to READ the bible. Lets just say a few years later, I'm a deist. I hate how when you challage christans they get so defensive, its like they know they have to defend there faith. Well defending you're faith is good, right?

Faith in what? God.
Allmighty god.
You're defending allmighty god. Do you realise that? Allmighty-all seeing, everywhere, all knowing, all loving.
Why do you need to defend him? Why doesn't he just come down and talk to everyone?
Oh wait.
That'd mess with there free will. But wait?! Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will?
We've reached a paradox. Thus I am a deist.

If you're just venting, well that's OK. But if you have any particular questions about the Bible, please ask us. I'm sure there are many here besides myself who will attempt to answer your question to your satisfaction.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[michealb]

De Maria,

You were an atheist because you hated god not because of reason there is a big difference. A lot of people claim to be or claim to be former atheist who are really just mad at themselves and at the world. The people who claim to be atheists because they hate god often go back to religion, people who reason there way to it very very rarely go back to religion. From what I understand you weren't an atheist you were mad at what you thought was god plan for you and just a bad person. Old habits die hard..

[inthebox]

I was raised a bible believeing christan. A 'literally' bible believeing christan. And thats what I was. Untill I was about 14. Then I started to READ the bible. Lets just say a few years later, I'm a deist. I hate how when you challage christans they get so defensive, its like they know they have to defend there faith. Well defending you're faith is good, right?

Faith in what? God.
Allmighty god.
You're defending allmighty god. Do you realise that? Allmighty-all seeing, everywhere, all knowing, all loving.
Why do you need to defend him? Why doesn't he just come down and talk to everyone?
Oh wait.
That'd mess with there free will. But wait?! Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will? Dident this God allready come down? Oh yeah, jesus! So as jesus, he dident mess with people's free will. So why doesn't jesus just show up in debates and prove that he is God? Because it messes with free will?
We've reached a paradox. Thus I am a deist.

Actually you make a good, if repetitive, point. :)

There can be no faith without free will.

[lobrobster]

I've noticed a pattern Jillianleab says something very smart that the fundies don't really have an answer for so instead they resort to personal attacks instead of sticking to the issue. I guess it's okay to attack someone as long as they aren't a fundie.

It could be worse. When people start making too much sense over in the Christianity forum, the moderator just shuts the thread down.

[lobrobster]

De Maria,

You were an atheist because you hated god not because of reason there is a big difference. A lot of people claim to be or claim to be former atheist who are really just mad at themselves and at the world. The people who claim to be atheists because they hate god often go back to religion, people who reason there way to it very very rarely go back to religion. From what I understand you weren't an atheist you were mad at what you thought was god plan for you and just a bad person. Old habits die hard..

This is such a key point that is overlooked by so many. Atheism is not a dislike for god, or anger at god, or revenge at god, which is often the only way a theist can imagine anyone rejecting belief in god. Nothing could be further from the truth.

You are so very correct. I used to believe in god, but after weighing the evidence and seriously thinking about all aspects of things, I don't have any choice. I simply have no compelling reason to think a god of any kind exists. It's not anger, hatred, or anything of the sort. Anymore than I am angry at unicorns.

[inthebox]

I simply have no compelling reason to think a god of any kind exists. It's not anger, hatred, or anything of the sort. Anymore than I am angry at unicorns.

That is why you post and ask questions on religious threads? ;)