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Fr_Chuck · Apr 18, 2008, 02:02 PM

Very often from the earliest times man wants to do the evil or at times the pleasure of their hearts and minds. So as it is with homosexual activity, and it is not uncommom for those that want to do it, to justify it with society, with trying to change the word of God, by denying the word of God.

And so as we go into this new century, man has rewritten in many places mans law so that there is less moral values in them, but this does not change the laws of God, only mans enforement of them.

And yes, they want to act like nothing is sin any longer and everyone will be saved no matter what they do.

The issue is yes if Jesus came today, he would talk with, eat with and walk with homosexuals, drunks, hookers and more. He would tell them of his love, he would cure many of their various sins and he would also forgive them and tell them to go and sin no more, as he did those of his time. With that said that is the part that most don't want to quote and remember is that he wants the sinner he forgives to stop their sin and repent.

tomterm8 · Apr 18, 2008, 02:27 PM

A heck of a lot of that depends on which variety of christianity you believe. The vast majority of verses in the old testament which argue against homosexuality are related to paul.

I belong to the church of England, whicn ordanes women to the priesthood, which is also apparently against the law of god, as expressed by Paul.

Very many verses of the bible speak directly against judging other people, condeming other people, or naming unclean what God has made clean. I do not believe it is consistent with a loving god to damn people for being what he made them. Further, it would render Jesus a liar to do so, for he promised the kingdom of heaven to men and women, whatever their weakness or sin, as long as they ask him for forgiveness, This is much more a central tenant of my christian faith, than whether Paul was right or wrong over homosexuality to my mind.

JudyKayTee · Apr 20, 2008, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by sassyT

the bible makes it crystal clear that Homosexuality is sin. So he can ask God to deliver him from that sin so that he may be in right standing with God.

I should have paid better attention, I admit, during religious instructions but I thought we were taught that the sin was ACTING on homosexuality, not BEING homosexual.

Of course, at one time if you ate meat on Friday and then dropped dead you had to be buried outside the cemetery fence in the Protestant section so who knows -

?

sassyT · Apr 21, 2008, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

I should have paid better attention, I admit, during religious instructions but I thought we were taught that the sin was ACTING on homosexuality, not BEING homosexual.

Of course, at one time if you ate meat on Friday and then dropped dead you had to be buried outside the cemetery fence in the Protestant section so who knows -

??

Homosexuality, is listed as one of the sin in the New Testament. It is not a 'special' sin it is just like any other. It is listed among drunkenness, fornication, Pride, adultery etc in Romans.

JudyKayTee · Apr 21, 2008, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by sassyT

Homosexuality, is listed as one of the sin in the New Testament. It is not a 'special' sin it is just like any other. It is listed among drunkeness, fornication, Pride, adultery etc in Romans.

So you are saying that according to the New Testament it is a sin to BE homosexual, whether you act on it or not?

And which version of the New Testament?

talaniman · Apr 21, 2008, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by sassyT

Homosexuality, is listed as one of the sin in the New Testament. It is not a 'special' sin it is just like any other. It is listed among drunkeness, fornication, Pride, adultery etc in Romans.

And that would be what scripture?

greenclover · Apr 21, 2008, 09:07 AM

Yes of course you will go to heaven, you are gay and that is the way you were born you must be proud and not care what other people think or say because they are just close minded. Remember the Bible was written by man not God. And homosexuality has been around forever, it was part of normal life in ancient Greek and Roman times. Hope this helps and God bless!

boredINmind · Apr 21, 2008, 11:41 PM

Totally in sync with you on this one. Sin is in the eye of the beholder, and religion is obviously something that should not be used to judge someone. Judging, in the Biblem is defined as a sin.

boredINmind · Apr 21, 2008, 11:43 PM

Maybe you should do a refresher on the Bible.

sassyT · Apr 22, 2008, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

So you are saying that according to the New Testament it is a sin to BE homosexual, whether you act on it or not?

And which version of the New Testament?

If we apply what Jesus said about adultary then, Yes. Jesus if you just look at another woman and lust after her, then you have already committed adultary. So I assume the same applies to a gay guy who does not have sex with another man but looks lustfully at another man

sassyT · Apr 22, 2008, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by greenclover

Yes of course you will go to heaven, you are gay and that is the way you were born you must be proud and not care what other people think or say because they are just close minded. Remember the Bible was written by man not God. And homosexuality has been around forever, it was part of normal life in ancient Greek and Roman times. Hope this helps and God bless!!

Homosexuality is definitely a sin according to the BIBLE. So it's either you believe the Bible as absolute truth or you don't. There are no Gray areas.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

NeedKarma · Apr 22, 2008, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by sassyT

Homosexuality is definitely a sin according to the BIBLE. So it's either you believe the Bible as absolute truth or you don't. There are no Gray areas.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Weird, looks like you added words:
1 Corinthians, Chapter 6 (King James Bible) - Christian Answers® WebBible™

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Nope, no homosexuals there. Unless you take into account all the various translations and interpretations:
HOMOSEXUALITY IN THE NEW TESTAMENT: CONSERVATIVE AND LIBERAL VIEWS
Which is true for a great deal of the bible so one could twist things to suit their agenda.

Donna Mae · Apr 22, 2008, 04:47 PM

1 Corinthians 6:9 (NIV)
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

(KJV) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Webster's Dictionary
effeminate- Having the qualities generally attributed to women, as weakness, timidity, delicacy, etc.; unmanly; not virile

As the Bible says it is not just the homosexual who will not inherit the kingdom of God, anyone who sins and does not repent and turn away from their sin will not inherit the kingdom of God.

jdljessie · Apr 22, 2008, 04:49 PM

Ok listen I have a lot of gay friends and yes you will go to heaven God does not judge people because of what they like

Fr_Chuck · Apr 22, 2008, 04:57 PM

Well yes, God does judge people, that is actually what he does do.
And he will look at first who has accepted his Son as their Saviour and Lord. Those that have accepted Christ will be saved, those that have not will not be.

There are a lot of sins, and sex with the same gender is one of those sins. It is no better or worst than other sins, but it is a sin.
We are all sinners the main thing we have to look for first is are we saved.
After that, the saved person would then try and work hard on living their lives like Christ would have wanted.

So can they be saved, yes, but very few will go to heaven, and that depends on your faith in Christ.

scottyv · Apr 22, 2008, 06:35 PM

Jdlseslie

The good father seems to part ways with Paul of Tarsus as he [Paul]believed that nothing can separate a person from the love of God, not even sin (shhhh, don't tell anyone). In Corinthians Paul says that all things are permissible, even though they may not be beneficial or constructive, yet what is important is that we must live for the betterment of others. Either God sent Jesus for the remission of sins or he didn't. Either Jesus paid that price or he didn't. According to the Christian faith you are saved by grace, not yours but gods, to make that conditional upon anything else is bad theology. There is no "if " in grace. God saves by grace only if you accept Jesus?

I doubt your gay friends have to worry about much as long as they are not going around hurting people. Don't buy into religious people telling you what sin is and that you are going to hell. That's how they make their money and friends, its all very silly, like man could ever know the mind of God, its pure hubris.

Peace friend,

Scotty

scottyv · Apr 22, 2008, 06:38 PM

Very few are going to heaven and it depends on acceptance of Jesus? I thought it depended on Gods grace. Hmmmn interesting theology you got going there.

scottyv · Apr 22, 2008, 06:42 PM

Doesn't it also say in 1st Cor. That everything is permissible? I guess its just depends what you want to focus on huh? Didn't Paul also say nothing can separate you from the love of God? Interesting confliction.

Fr_Chuck · Apr 22, 2008, 06:42 PM

Sadly one has to include the entire bibile, which incluldes Jesus telling us to repent from our sin. And if you take the entire New Testement as a whole, one sees that a person who is saved has to have accepted Christ,
they are not saved if they don't, that is the entire theme of the NT.

As for sin, We know that to accept christ we have to repent of our sin, this also is the very words of Christ. So as long as they have admitted their sin, have tried hard to turn from it, and accepted Christ.

But that is the only real issue if they accepted Christ, after they accepted Christ, then it is up to God to convict their hearts to show them the evil of their sin and to help them reprent of them.

ordinaryguy · Apr 22, 2008, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by Donna Mae

(KJV) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Webster's Dictionary
effeminate- Having the qualities generally attributed to women, as weakness, timidity, delicacy, etc.; unmanly; not virile

So is it only MALE homosexuality that's a sin? Sounds to me like lesbians are off the hook.

Also, what does it mean, "abusers of themselves with mankind"?