What impact did the death of Jesus have on his respective religion
What impact did the death of Muhammad have on his respective religion
|
What impact did the death of Jesus have on his respective religion
What impact did the death of Muhammad have on his respective religion
Jesus was a Jew, so He totally upset the apple cart in that religion. In the end, He was considered an imposter, and not the hoped-for Messiah.
On first view an interesting question.Quote:
Originally Posted by creategg04
But there is a huge difference in the positions of these two religions and persons :
Jesus was claimed to be part of the Christian God (the Trinity claim)
Muhammad was no part of Allah : he was only his prophet.
So the impacts of their dying have different impacts on these religions, with have little to do with the essence of these religions.
:)
Of greater impact is the resurrection of Jesus.
wow now.. little to do with the essence of the religion? Jesus dying on the cross is the symbol of god lifting the curse that was the law. Jesus died for our sins to release us from that curse. Little to do? False. This should be the cornerstone of someone's christian belief.Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
If a christian doesn't believe that Christ was sent to die on the cross as the sacrifice to release the world from the law (ie: sin because we wouldn't know sin with out the law), then that said person would not be christian.
Essentially yes it has little to do with the essence of the religion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoked
Both persons are very important for their own religion.
But there is no match nor test here who is more important. To do that is childish.
Specially as both sides are biased for their own person...
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I missed the Jesus-Mohammed competition. Where is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
(You're going to get really sick if you keep rolling your eyes. In fact, my mother would tell you they might even get stuck if you keep doing it.)
That was more or less brought into the discussion by Smoked in his (her?) post #5.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: (6 - the max!! )
.
Hmmmm, I seem to be missing the competition possibilities in smoked's post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
***ADDITION: I believe you are misreading what smoked said and means.
(OMG!! I got to call my mom to find out if six eye-rolls is even life-threatening!! )
Maybe you are missing a lot more...Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
.
Don't think so. Maybe you like to look for trouble where none is? :D :D :D :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
Christianity did not exist until Jesus was seen resurrected by his followers. By just his death alone, his followers pretty much ran away as if defeated. The Jews didn't believe he was the messiah, they killed him for blasphemy after all, for making himself equal with God.
So the death ALONE is not the impacting part of it, but the resurrection. Sure, they go hand in hand, but your question is specifically on his death. Paul said in 1 Corinthians "And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied."
Without the resurrection, there would be no Christianity.
As far as Muhammad, I don't know, there were no specific prophesies or promises about his life or death. He wasn't expected to live forever, nor to resurrect. So I doubt it had much impact beyond what is normal surrounding a death of an important figure. Similar to the death of Moses or Abraham perhaps, but not impacting as far as changing the religion itself.
Back to the question on the table --
The deaths of Jesus and Muhammed had totally different impacts on what became religions based on their activities, but both sets of followers pulled together a compliation of what they deemed were the words of God. For Christians, that was the Bible; for Mulims, it was the Q'ran.
As I stated before :Quote:
Originally Posted by ZackW
Essentially yes it has little to do with the essence of the religion.
Both persons are very important for their own religion.
But there is no match nor test here who is more important. To do that is childish.
Specially as both sides are biased for their own person ...
So are we now going to count the points?
Jesus X points, Muhammad Y points ?
I KNEW IT WOULD END UP LIKE THIS .....
How childish, how pathetic!!
.
He answered the question. You're the only one keeping score. (I thought you were going to sleep.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
Death of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh)-
---------------------------------------------
Death of Prophet Muhammad (632 AD)
The news of the Prophet's death was so hard upon close companions and Muslims that some of them refused to believe that he had passed away. (At the close of his death, he looked youthful as if in his forties and his face always shown a great radiance). Upon hearing this, Abu Bakr (ra) who was later to become the first caliph went to the mosque and delivered one of the noblest speeches:
“O People! If Muhammad is the sole object of your adoration, then know that he is dead. But if it is Allah (The One God) you Worshiped, then know that He does not die.”
He then recited the following verse from the Qur'an, 3:144, which was revealed after the Battle of Uhud:
“Muhammad is no more than an Apostle: many were the Apostles that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will you then turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude.”
-----------------------------------------
You might also like to read the following article.
http://www.islamfortoday.com/shia.htm
You sir see implication where there is none. BTW I am a he :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
Well actually muslim do not believe that jesus is dead, they believe thad god took him up to heaven and he will return one day and spread peace on earth after a huge war.
Mohamad died to prove that he is not god, he is just a prophet that god sent to earth, and to make people believe in all prophets before him.
Have you read the book of the same name written by a muslim. He somehow reached the conclusion Jesus is God. Pity his fellows didn't reach the same conclusion, we could have avoided all the conflict
Are you a Muslim?Quote:
Originally Posted by amorina9
I read your post with interest. If you are a Muslim, and your post accurately reflects what you believe, then I have no argument on this point.
I thought you knew about Islamic belief in Jesus/Easa alaihi salaam and that he did not die but was taken up by the Almighty and will return during the End times to abolish falsehood and establish the truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by galveston
Firm,
Thank you for that clarification.
What are we fighting about, anyway? (I speak of world events)
Is it true that Mohommed says that Christians are to be protected? Or is that incorrect?
The fights I assume will continue until Jesus/Easa alaihi salaam descends when there will be peace on earth before the end of the world.
Differences in belief,political agendas are just some of the reason why the fighting continues.
“Say (O Muslims): 'We believe in Allaah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibraaheem (Abraham), Ismaa'eel (Ishmael), Ishaaq (Isaac), Ya'qoob (Jacob), and to Al-Asbaat [the offspring of the twelve sons of Ya'qoob (Jacob)], and that which has been given to Moosa (Moses) and 'Isa (Jesus), and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted (in Islam)'” [al-Baqarah 2:136]
We believe in all the revealed books.
Islam Question and Answer - The reality of belief in the Books
I will have to look up that hadith (Prophetic saying), it could have been protection of the Christians living peacefully amongst Muslims during the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).
Are there other variations within Islam than Sunni and Shi'ite?
If it is not too personal, which do you claim?
So far, from your posts, it looks like the main(?) significant difference between us is that we say that Jesus is the Son of God, while you do not.
Do you accept the Gospel accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John?
There are minority groups who claim to be Muslim,but their beliefs are very much different from Sunni Muslim,which is based on the Quran and Sunnah (Prophetic traditions/sayings).
Some of those who belong to these minority groups are Qardawi,Ahmadiyya,Bahai, Sufi and Nation of Islam.
I am a Sunni Muslim.
The largest Shia Muslim population is found in Iran.
I think the main difference between us is the point you have mentioned;
That Jesus/Easa alaihi salaam is a Prophet and Messenger from the Almighty and the second difference is that we do not believe he was crucified.
We do not follow any of the Old or New Testaments which Christians refer to because we follow the Quran which we believe to be the last and final revelation with all the guidelines we need to follow.
You might like to have a look at some of the similarities between our books.
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
/wiki/Biblical_narratives_and_the_Qur%27an
Firm,
Thank you for your reply.
I have a further question: If you are willing to accept Jesus a Prophet, Priest, and King, why do you hesitate to accept Him as your Saviour?
That would seem to me to be a short step from where you are.
No, that is not a short step,not from where I stand.Quote:
Originally Posted by galveston
That's a long step from strict monotheism to believing another human being can save me .
And putting another human alongside the Almighty is not something I could ever accept.
And the burden of what we do is in our hands and we alone are questionable for our deeds,how can someone else take responsibility for what I have done;that is another thing that I do not believe in.
But when Jesus/Easa alaihi salaam descends and if I am alive then I will be 100% behind him all the way.This does not mean that I will bow down to him or think of him as my saviour.
OK, Firm,
Since you accept Jesus as Prophet, Priest, and King, do you accept the things He has said about Himself and His mission to Earth?
It wouldn't make a lot of sense to accept a prophet and ignore his prophecy.
What was the prophecy?
I hope that you understand that a prophet does more than fortell future events. He actually speaks for God. Much prophecy is correctional in nature.Quote:
Originally Posted by firmbeliever
But I will give you a small sample of what Jesus taught. Let's look at His prophecy concerning Jerusalem.
Matt 24:1-2
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? Verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
(KJV)
Luke 21:20
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
(KJV)
Luke 21:24
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
(KJV)
All this came to pass in 70 AD
I know that you do not believe that Jesus is The Son of God, in the unique sense. Look at a few of the things that Jesus said. Remember, you recognize Him as a prophet.
Matt 11:27
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
(KJV)
Matt 16:16-17
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
(KJV)
Matt 16:27
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
(KJV)
John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one.
(KJV) (Note the word "are". This statement shows the perfect unity between Father and Son)
John 14:7-11
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
(KJV)
I know you don't believe that Jesus was crucified, but see what He Himself said on that subject.
Matt 20:18-19
18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,
19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.
(KJV) (Also recorded by Mark and Luke)
This is a small protion of the historical record, carefully preserved down through the centuries.
Are you willing to accept the words of the Prophet Jesus?
As I mentioned earlier we follow the Quran as the last and final revelation and we believe in Jesus/Easa alaihi salaam as a Prophet who will return later,but we do not believe that he would ask of us to worship through him or to him.
Well, do you have evidence that the reports of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are in error?Quote:
Originally Posted by firmbeliever
If they are not in error, then what they say has to be considered, as they give us a first-hand look at what Jesus taught about Himself.
What I am saying is that you have to either disprove the record or accept the teaching of the Prophet.
Lets not get into that, you will believe as you believe and I will believe as I believe. :)
Might be worth thinking about?:)Quote:
Originally Posted by firmbeliever
You know how these type of discussions always ends up, it becomes an argument and not a discussion anymore,because faith/belief is a sensitive subject and we are both firmbelievers in our own faiths.
Lets just keep it that way. :)
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:40 AM. |