I'm not that old, 19, and there's something I can't quite grasp. Guys and Girls social status.
Guys have to be kind, confident, ambitious, buy girls flowers occasionally, buy them dinners, good grades/job, work out, funny, willing to help with house work, have a car etc.
Basically, not poor and good personality. That's basic things that are required of them. And guys want of girls to be good looking, funny. That's it. Put on make up, laugh at their jokes, say a joke once in a while, that's it.
I'm not talking about marriage potential, I'm talking about simple relationships.
Guy is shy - he's forever alone, girl is shy? A guy will talk. Guy can't drive? He's ed, girl can't drive? A guy will drive. Guy has no money? He's ed. Girl has no money? He will pay for you. Guy looks bad? He's doomed. Girl looks bad? Make-up. And so on.
I'm not sexist or anything. I believe both have to contribute to relationships. My current relationship is great, not looking for advice how to deal with women(she is all I want ^^). But what I mentioned earlier happens all around me, everywhere I look, every community I go to, or see on the internet, whether it's Brazil, Australia, USA, Europe and so on, girls are treated like Queens, they have it easy for them(besides giving births and periods) and guys are slaves, being a guy is like playing a game on a HARD mode.
To clarify, I want you to tell me, why is it that guys need to be a knight in shining armor and girls need to be only alive, offering nothing . And I understand them, if I were a girl, I would also offer nothing, because guys will crave me either way. And if you're a guy, you need to be better than others in many many ways to get a girl they like, because if they don't have those "required things", the girl can always find some guy who has.
(I just realized it's a wrong category, should've listed this in "Dating", sorry)

I beg to differ that this happens everywhere. It doesn't happen in a hay relationship.

A relationship turns out to be whatever the two people make it to be. I know a married couple who keep separate bank accounts. And what's wrong with a little chivalry now and again?

You are extremely sexist. I feel very sorry for your girlfriend.

I'm not basing this on my opinion, I'm basing this on facts I see around, my relationship is perfect as of now(I'm altruistic). Also, I'm not speaking about marriage or serious relationships, I'm speaking about dating life, sorry again for listing this in the wrong category

You are young, and sexist. This isn't how the adult world operates.

I think that there may be a fair number of girls who feel that they have it harder than you think. They often feel compelled by societal norms (western anyway) to look a certain way to be considered attractive enough for a guy to be interested in the first place. You mention make-up... why do you think many girls feel it necessary to even have to use it? Older women are bombarded with anti wrinkle ads. The implication is that women rarely are attractive enough simply looking like nature intended whether younger or older.

Many couples may start with the traditional dating norms, guy paying for most of the dates for example, but more and more do not follow them from the start or soon drop them and there is more of a mutual contribution to the relationship.

J_9 how helpful, you call me sexist, and base your facts on nothing, also, if you don't have anything useful to say, don't speak at all. You're being apathetic. P.S. In my country minimum wage is 350euros(yes, euros), you may have it different, but don't blame me when you know nothing, rich guys own everything and everyone, good looking girls are queens, rest are treated as trash. #1 Suicide country in the world also, #2 corruption rate. Lithuania, I'm sad to admit it.

DoulaLC, you have a point, girls also have it hard, looking good isn't easy, I understand that, just didn't mention it before. I probably should explain myself. In my relationship, we both bring something to the table, sometimes I pay, sometimes she pays, we both help each other and are happy. The reason I started this thread, is simple, look 53% divorce rate(Both USA and my country). People are unable to sustain normal relationships, and I blame these gender roles, please do tell me if I'm wrong.

Women have it rougher than you think. They are expected to live up to a man's expectations of beauty and kindness. They are the ones who have the hard job of being wives and mothers, many of whom are single mothers who get no help from the fathers.

I'm not being apathetic, I'm a realist who has raised children older than you, who have more respect than you.

Gender roles rarely have anything to do with why a couple divorces.

Do you really know me that well, to be reasonably claim that you have more respect to others than me? :) Can you really call yourself a realist while making such unrealistic claims? Though yes, women have it hard, I wrote a really huge message, didn't want to make it longer so I didn't mention it. I understand they have it hard, and majority of girls/women aren't like that. You're going too deep in the wrong direction, my bad, I didn't explain myself fully. This "minority" of good looking girls who have it easy, make it difficult for everyone else, and "minority" of guys(with rich parents) set impossible standards to others. For example, my friend couldn't find a girlfriend, for 19 years(he's also 19). He got his license(for car) 2 weeks ago and his parents bought him a car(BMW X5, he has a very rich father). Girls won't stop bothering him now. A month ago he still couldn't get his first kiss, now he's getting invited to dates and gets oral and sex on the first date, he was still a forever alone virgin a month ago!! Yeah, this started happening because he suddenly got a great personality and instantly became good looking, not because his parents bought him a car, definitely not because girls found out he has rich parents. Hope you can understand me better now.

Normal relationship = Boring.

I prefer making the relationship what my partner and I want it to be. It won't be anything close to normal. I don't want ordinary. Just like life relationships are what you make them to be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hyouka

DoulaLC, you have a point, girls also have it hard, looking good isn't easy, I understand that, just didn't mention it before. I probably should explain myself. In my relationship, we both bring something to the table, sometimes I pay, sometimes she pays, we both help each other and are happy. The reason I started this thread, is simple, look 53% divorce rate(Both USA and my country). People are unable to sustain normal relationships, and I blame these gender roles, please do tell me if I'm wrong.

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My friend is only a sole example. There are hundreds of thousands of guys and girls, who are depressed and have a hard life, because others are more blessed. Those who aren't lucky are being undermined. Wondergirl, I realised, I shouldn't talk about marriage and divorces yet, I just know that 53% couples divorce(Wikipedia), and probably used the information wrongfully. Tell me , why do they divorce then? Why get married, if you aren't fit with each other

Which country are you in? That is not the kind of superficial society I grew up in and live in.

Mmm. 350 euros minimum wage. Yes we know euros, most of us use them when travelling in Europe. And what is your point mentioning minimum wage? Minimum wage in Canada is 15 dollars an hour. Your information doesn't make sense. Have you lost a decimal somewhere? 350 euros equals 351 usd. Wow.

Lithuania, before you Google, 2.5million population, 1 million lost in few years, we live like western countries, though we can't afford it, 30% can barely afford food and taxes. My family is middle class though, we're OK. My relationship is great. I'm disappointed by my surroundings, I mean, people around me. We have a joke here, if you see a person smiling in a crowd, you can be certain it's a foreigner. As a person, I only wish to be happy, and for that , I need to have a social life, but people are unbearable.

You make your life what you want it to be. If you want more, work harder. If you want to be wealthy, get an education and a good career.

People divorce these days because it is easier than working through problems and it is more socially acceptable than it was generations ago. In a good relationship the men and women are equal partners who share everything equally.

I didn't realize Lithuania was so superficial.

You sound like you settle for whatever is around you. It sounds like you don't take control of your life. It's not worth doing unless it's fun so make everything fun.

Tickle, my point is that most people are struggling to survive, while most girls are waiting for a rich guy. Connect the dots yourself. P.S. 350 euros = 391 usd, could you survive with 391 usd a month? Working 10 hours a day, 5 days a week, having children to take care of.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hyouka

Do you really know me that well, to be reasonably claim that you have more respect to others than me? :) Can you really call yourself a realist while making such unrealistic claims? Though yes, women have it hard, I wrote a really huge message, didn't want to make it longer so I didn't mention it. I understand they have it hard, and majority of girls/women aren't like that. You're going too deep in the wrong direction, my bad, I didn't explain myself fully. This "minority" of good looking girls who have it easy, make it difficult for everyone else, and "minority" of guys(with rich parents) set impossible standards to others. For example, my friend couldn't find a girlfriend, for 19 years(he's also 19). He got his license(for car) 2 weeks ago and his parents bought him a car(BMW X5, he has a very rich father). Girls won't stop bothering him now. A month ago he still couldn't get his first kiss, now he's getting invited to dates and gets oral and sex on the first date, he was still a forever alone virgin a month ago!! Yeah, this started happening because he suddenly got a great personality and instantly became good looking, not because his parents bought him a car, definitely not because girls found out he has rich parents. Hope you can understand me better now.

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I notice you are changing your argument from implying all males and females to some/a minority of. You also go from talking about just dating to mentioning divorce rates. What is your real question or are you just trying to have a debate/confrontation/etc.? Is this simply an excuse for a rant or do you truly want to learn more?

Getting a car didn't make him feel more confident and out-going? He probably changed his personality in ways that you may not see. He may have also decided to let go of a long held fantasy and opened his eyes to other possibilities.

Showing confidence and acting more self-secure will attract females. If you are basing your observations on him, then make certain you are paying attention to all of the facts and not cherry-picking the ones that suit your cause.

You have in a way disproved your own theory by say saying '"minority" of guys(with rich parents) set impossible standards to others' then saying 'he has a very rich father'. By your argument he should have had females climbing all over him because his father is rich. Perhaps he and others who are 'left out' have other issues than their wallet?

Frankly, I have read your other threads and have seen how biased you are in your observations. I highly suggest you take a step back and pay attention to the whole picture including the history of Male/Female interactions. Talk to your elders about the dating scene when they were your age. You may learn more than you think you already know.

Cat, thank you for your time. I'm very opinionated, but I'm not biased. The language barrier hurts my reasoning, I find it very difficult to express myself and understand why I appear to be biased :/ . To answer your question, yes, I want to learn more, hence, this thread. I hope that by proving me wrong you will change my opinion, thus helping me grow as a person. The friend I've talked about is my best friend, we've known each other since we were born. My girlfriend and I tried helping him get a girlfriend, didn't work, getting a car did work. Sometimes I may fall victim to picking out facts that help my cause, but this isn't the case. Girls didn't know he had a rich father, because he didn't have a car before :) You aren't teenagers, I'll put this question to rest, but while I have your attention, perhaps it would be better, if I didn't try and fail to explain myself, but rather that you would tell me how YOU see the "world" , this is more important to me, as I'll be entering the adult world in due time. Tell me. In your world, do people get divorced? Why? Cheating? Money? Because its easier to find another person than to work things out? If yes, doesn't that make them unscrupulous and untrustworthy = "trash" people? What is it important in your relationships? What are you looking in opposite gender? Help me understand, how there are so many divorces? They make me fear for marriage, and marriage(family), is the most important thing in my life(my dream). I can be poor, I can have few friends, as long as I have a family I love, I'll be as happy as a dog seeing his owner return home. If you live in some superficial country, where survival isn't at question, people are nice, have moral values, people don't idolize Kim Kardashian, Justin Bieber and similar people. Having one night stands is frowned upon. Tell me, I'll move mountains to get there.

Note to self:

1) He's depressing.
2) He only addresses women.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hyouka

Lithuania, before you Google, 2.5million population, 1 million lost in few years, we live like western countries, though we can't afford it, 30% can barely afford food and taxes. My family is middle class though, we're OK. My relationship is great. I'm disappointed by my surroundings, I mean, people around me. We have a joke here, if you see a person smiling in a crowd, you can be certain it's a foreigner. As a person, I only wish to be happy, and for that , I need to have a social life, but people are unbearable.

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Yes, I know what you say is true. Lithuania is exactly as you describe. It is hard for westerners to realize that a country who has just adopted the euro (January 2015) can be so down and out.

Oliver, the topic I want to talk about is depressing, sorry :D

Tickle, we regained independence 24 years ago, soviets killed intelligent people(they were sent to Siberia), rest emigrated while they could. One of very many unique challenges we face, growth is slow, but as I recall we are in the top #5 of Europe by growth in GDP(recent years), will take time to recover.

My curiosity is stronger than my ego, so I'd rather talk about people as a whole, rather than my own situation. Sadly I'm very inefficient at getting the answers I want, since I started this thread I've said too many things that threw of this topic from it's main goal.
I'm actually interested in following things, why people cheat, why there are so many selfish people, why there are so many dumb people(not in education). Why do people fall prey to narcissism, why are the negative aspects of humanity thrive so much.

For example, you aren't satisfied in a relationship, why be dishonorable and cheat, while it should be common sense to simply talk about it with partner and work things out and break up(being fair to your partner). Even by being selfish, it makes more sense to simply break up if you're unsatisfied rather than cheat and live with the relationship that doesn't satisfy you. This whole act is stupid.

We can be either good or bad. But why is it that people tend to be bad.

Ends justify the means, until we are the ones getting hurt.

Everyone else is at fault but us.

Putting on a façade and lying, manipulating others.

I know our brain is hardwired to act in this way, it is a means of survival, there are many "Defence mechanisms". But it's the 21st century, we have no more need for this, we can achieve more by being truthful, cooperating, honorable and respectful. These positive qualities aid us way more than those negative qualities, yet, those negative qualities are dominating, and humanity is degrading the way I see it.

For example, someone uses drugs and gets thrown in jail for 5 years because of that. The logic here is , you are ruining your life? Here, let us ruin it for you by wasting taxpayer money! Great thinking humanity!

Jokes aside(bad examples aside), the facts speak for themselves. All of us want to be happy, all of us. Yet most people aren't. Whatever life goal you have, you have it because you think it will make you happy. Everything we do, we believe will bring us closer to being happy. But does cheating, being selfish, lying, being dishonorable, frankly, being "BAD" leaves us happy? It leaves us sad.
Maybe thousands of years ago, we had to resort to those shady tactics to survive, but this time is over. For example, Fear. Thousands of years ago, if our ancestors encountered a bear in a forest, they had to freeze, so the bear would ignore them, if they ran, it would chase. Fear did exactly that, paralyze. Nowadays, we go into a street, suddenly we notice a car is going to hit us in 2 seconds. Fear paralyzes us. We get hit and die. In these times we're smart enough, we don't need to resort to such instincts and shady tactics to survive. They're only a handicap.

Being happy is easy, just don't be a bad person and you won't have to resort to such things, and happiness will hit you. And if you have to, you probably are a lowlife and don't deserve to be part of this community.
Look around, I see mostly unhappy people, it's their choice, but environment affects me, and people are the environment. I'm generally disappointed by life, it concerns me more than it should.
This is just my reality, in your environment people may be happy, good for you. I just want to know, why does having a happy, peaceful, world look like an utopia, while it should be common sense , like touching fire is bad, because it will burn you. Resorting to those shady tactics also burn you, yet people do it, I fail to comprehend stupidity. Am I completely incorrect, or am I the only one realizing it? Fixing community is easy, teach Emotional Intelligence at schools, yet it isn't taught at anywhere. I've started studying psychology on my own years ago, I deducted this on my own, it's really bothering me, a lot. Maybe I'm looking for faults at wrong places, blaming things that aren't at fault. But the world is full of sad people. I want to know why.

Exiting this sad chapter...

There are men and women who look only for material things, For many young people, girls seem to always like those who play spots or have money.

But somewhere in the 20's, real life happens, and yes in college, I can remember the girls who merely chased after the men in the engineering or medical programs because they were have higher incomes, They often sold their "soul" or beauty or body to a boyfriend for a hope of a good life later.

These are relationships based on greed, sex, physical desires and money.

Those type of men, who will use wealth to have wives, mistresses and girlfriends and the women who have no respect for their body and use it to get position and powre exist everywhere.

But they are not the majority, but they are easily noticed, The couples who always ride the public transportation because they do not own a car. Or the couple who have to live with another family member when they start, may be more common, but you do not see them.

Real relationships happen normally at work, or social clubs (or church) where two people get to know each other, become friends first and then start dating.

Also, America divorce is closer to 60 percent, from what I can tell, China about 40 percent currently. Wikipedia is not ever considered a valid source, No university I know would ever allow it to be used as a source of information. Some of us here use it at times, since it is a fast and easy to read place.

The absence of real facts makes this an opinionated rant.