[Hyouka]

I'm not that old, 19, and there's something I can't quite grasp. Guys and Girls social status.
Guys have to be kind, confident, ambitious, buy girls flowers occasionally, buy them dinners, good grades/job, work out, funny, willing to help with house work, have a car etc.
Basically, not poor and good personality. That's basic things that are required of them. And guys want of girls to be good looking, funny. That's it. Put on make up, laugh at their jokes, say a joke once in a while, that's it.
I'm not talking about marriage potential, I'm talking about simple relationships.
Guy is shy - he's forever alone, girl is shy? A guy will talk. Guy can't drive? He's ed, girl can't drive? A guy will drive. Guy has no money? He's ed. Girl has no money? He will pay for you. Guy looks bad? He's doomed. Girl looks bad? Make-up. And so on.
I'm not sexist or anything. I believe both have to contribute to relationships. My current relationship is great, not looking for advice how to deal with women(she is all I want ^^). But what I mentioned earlier happens all around me, everywhere I look, every community I go to, or see on the internet, whether it's Brazil, Australia, USA, Europe and so on, girls are treated like Queens, they have it easy for them(besides giving births and periods) and guys are slaves, being a guy is like playing a game on a HARD mode.
To clarify, I want you to tell me, why is it that guys need to be a knight in shining armor and girls need to be only alive, offering nothing . And I understand them, if I were a girl, I would also offer nothing, because guys will crave me either way. And if you're a guy, you need to be better than others in many many ways to get a girl they like, because if they don't have those "required things", the girl can always find some guy who has.
(I just realized it's a wrong category, should've listed this in "Dating", sorry)

[Oliver2011]

I beg to differ that this happens everywhere. It doesn't happen in a hay relationship.

A relationship turns out to be whatever the two people make it to be. I know a married couple who keep separate bank accounts. And what's wrong with a little chivalry now and again?

[J_9]

You are extremely sexist. I feel very sorry for your girlfriend.

[Hyouka]

I'm not basing this on my opinion, I'm basing this on facts I see around, my relationship is perfect as of now(I'm altruistic). Also, I'm not speaking about marriage or serious relationships, I'm speaking about dating life, sorry again for listing this in the wrong category

[J_9]

You are young, and sexist. This isn't how the adult world operates.

[DoulaLC]

I think that there may be a fair number of girls who feel that they have it harder than you think. They often feel compelled by societal norms (western anyway) to look a certain way to be considered attractive enough for a guy to be interested in the first place. You mention make-up... why do you think many girls feel it necessary to even have to use it? Older women are bombarded with anti wrinkle ads. The implication is that women rarely are attractive enough simply looking like nature intended whether younger or older.

Many couples may start with the traditional dating norms, guy paying for most of the dates for example, but more and more do not follow them from the start or soon drop them and there is more of a mutual contribution to the relationship.

[Hyouka]

J_9 how helpful, you call me sexist, and base your facts on nothing, also, if you don't have anything useful to say, don't speak at all. You're being apathetic. P.S. In my country minimum wage is 350euros(yes, euros), you may have it different, but don't blame me when you know nothing, rich guys own everything and everyone, good looking girls are queens, rest are treated as trash. #1 Suicide country in the world also, #2 corruption rate. Lithuania, I'm sad to admit it.

[Hyouka]

DoulaLC, you have a point, girls also have it hard, looking good isn't easy, I understand that, just didn't mention it before. I probably should explain myself. In my relationship, we both bring something to the table, sometimes I pay, sometimes she pays, we both help each other and are happy. The reason I started this thread, is simple, look 53% divorce rate(Both USA and my country). People are unable to sustain normal relationships, and I blame these gender roles, please do tell me if I'm wrong.

[J_9]

Women have it rougher than you think. They are expected to live up to a man's expectations of beauty and kindness. They are the ones who have the hard job of being wives and mothers, many of whom are single mothers who get no help from the fathers.

I'm not being apathetic, I'm a realist who has raised children older than you, who have more respect than you.

[Wondergirl]

Gender roles rarely have anything to do with why a couple divorces.

[Hyouka]

Do you really know me that well, to be reasonably claim that you have more respect to others than me? :) Can you really call yourself a realist while making such unrealistic claims? Though yes, women have it hard, I wrote a really huge message, didn't want to make it longer so I didn't mention it. I understand they have it hard, and majority of girls/women aren't like that. You're going too deep in the wrong direction, my bad, I didn't explain myself fully. This "minority" of good looking girls who have it easy, make it difficult for everyone else, and "minority" of guys(with rich parents) set impossible standards to others. For example, my friend couldn't find a girlfriend, for 19 years(he's also 19). He got his license(for car) 2 weeks ago and his parents bought him a car(BMW X5, he has a very rich father). Girls won't stop bothering him now. A month ago he still couldn't get his first kiss, now he's getting invited to dates and gets oral and sex on the first date, he was still a forever alone virgin a month ago!! Yeah, this started happening because he suddenly got a great personality and instantly became good looking, not because his parents bought him a car, definitely not because girls found out he has rich parents. Hope you can understand me better now.

[Oliver2011]

Normal relationship = Boring.

I prefer making the relationship what my partner and I want it to be. It won't be anything close to normal. I don't want ordinary. Just like life relationships are what you make them to be.

DoulaLC, you have a point, girls also have it hard, looking good isn't easy, I understand that, just didn't mention it before. I probably should explain myself. In my relationship, we both bring something to the table, sometimes I pay, sometimes she pays, we both help each other and are happy. The reason I started this thread, is simple, look 53% divorce rate(Both USA and my country). People are unable to sustain normal relationships, and I blame these gender roles, please do tell me if I'm wrong.

[Hyouka]

My friend is only a sole example. There are hundreds of thousands of guys and girls, who are depressed and have a hard life, because others are more blessed. Those who aren't lucky are being undermined. Wondergirl, I realised, I shouldn't talk about marriage and divorces yet, I just know that 53% couples divorce(Wikipedia), and probably used the information wrongfully. Tell me , why do they divorce then? Why get married, if you aren't fit with each other

[Wondergirl]

Which country are you in? That is not the kind of superficial society I grew up in and live in.

[tickle]

Mmm. 350 euros minimum wage. Yes we know euros, most of us use them when travelling in Europe. And what is your point mentioning minimum wage? Minimum wage in Canada is 15 dollars an hour. Your information doesn't make sense. Have you lost a decimal somewhere? 350 euros equals 351 usd. Wow.

[Hyouka]

Lithuania, before you Google, 2.5million population, 1 million lost in few years, we live like western countries, though we can't afford it, 30% can barely afford food and taxes. My family is middle class though, we're OK. My relationship is great. I'm disappointed by my surroundings, I mean, people around me. We have a joke here, if you see a person smiling in a crowd, you can be certain it's a foreigner. As a person, I only wish to be happy, and for that , I need to have a social life, but people are unbearable.

[J_9]

You make your life what you want it to be. If you want more, work harder. If you want to be wealthy, get an education and a good career.

People divorce these days because it is easier than working through problems and it is more socially acceptable than it was generations ago. In a good relationship the men and women are equal partners who share everything equally.

I didn't realize Lithuania was so superficial.

[Oliver2011]

You sound like you settle for whatever is around you. It sounds like you don't take control of your life. It's not worth doing unless it's fun so make everything fun.

[Hyouka]

Tickle, my point is that most people are struggling to survive, while most girls are waiting for a rich guy. Connect the dots yourself. P.S. 350 euros = 391 usd, could you survive with 391 usd a month? Working 10 hours a day, 5 days a week, having children to take care of.

[Cat1864]

Do you really know me that well, to be reasonably claim that you have more respect to others than me? :) Can you really call yourself a realist while making such unrealistic claims? Though yes, women have it hard, I wrote a really huge message, didn't want to make it longer so I didn't mention it. I understand they have it hard, and majority of girls/women aren't like that. You're going too deep in the wrong direction, my bad, I didn't explain myself fully. This "minority" of good looking girls who have it easy, make it difficult for everyone else, and "minority" of guys(with rich parents) set impossible standards to others. For example, my friend couldn't find a girlfriend, for 19 years(he's also 19). He got his license(for car) 2 weeks ago and his parents bought him a car(BMW X5, he has a very rich father). Girls won't stop bothering him now. A month ago he still couldn't get his first kiss, now he's getting invited to dates and gets oral and sex on the first date, he was still a forever alone virgin a month ago!! Yeah, this started happening because he suddenly got a great personality and instantly became good looking, not because his parents bought him a car, definitely not because girls found out he has rich parents. Hope you can understand me better now.

I notice you are changing your argument from implying all males and females to some/a minority of. You also go from talking about just dating to mentioning divorce rates. What is your real question or are you just trying to have a debate/confrontation/etc.? Is this simply an excuse for a rant or do you truly want to learn more?

Getting a car didn't make him feel more confident and out-going? He probably changed his personality in ways that you may not see. He may have also decided to let go of a long held fantasy and opened his eyes to other possibilities.

Showing confidence and acting more self-secure will attract females. If you are basing your observations on him, then make certain you are paying attention to all of the facts and not cherry-picking the ones that suit your cause.

You have in a way disproved your own theory by say saying '"minority" of guys(with rich parents) set impossible standards to others' then saying 'he has a very rich father'. By your argument he should have had females climbing all over him because his father is rich. Perhaps he and others who are 'left out' have other issues than their wallet?

Frankly, I have read your other threads and have seen how biased you are in your observations. I highly suggest you take a step back and pay attention to the whole picture including the history of Male/Female interactions. Talk to your elders about the dating scene when they were your age. You may learn more than you think you already know.