Is it natural, or even possible to span an entire relationship feeling exactly the way you felt when you first began it? Aren't there times in every relationship where for whatever reason your feelings just aren't the same, maybe not as strong as they once were? Feelings of doubt, and insecurity have found their way into your heart. The person who for a whole year gave you butterflies every time you were with them, doesn't seem to have the same effect on you anymore.

My question is, what does it all mean?

If you're in love, and you can't stop thinking about the other person and all you want is to be married to them and have their children... How do you, all of a sudden, change your tune. All of a sudden, you need space; you want to be single. Does that mean nothing you felt before was real. Could it have possibly been in true love? Does true love ever die?

If you're on the other end, if your partner tells you that he/she just doesn't feel the same about you as he/she once did... How long do you wait for them to come around. Everybody gets confused at times, and everyone has doubts at times. How do you know what's real? Is it the way he/she says he/she feels now, or is it the deep caring, loving, and blissful feeling that he/she has expressed throughout the majority of your relationship together, possibly even, just a few days before hand. What is one to really believe?

What's so hard for me is that I've once been in the place that she is now. Early on, I wasn't sure if we were meant to be together. I couldn't tell whether we were right for each other. It felt like we were just too different. She nearly begged me for marriage and children, and if nothing else, a solid, meaningful commitment... I couldn't give her that. And so, for a while we were on again and off again. And as time went on, I began to wonder how many you can break up with someone before they never feel the same way about you.

The part that sucks is that, while I still had trouble expressing it as often and as meaningfully as she needed, over time, my feelings for her grew to heights I never thought possible. Though it may not seem like it to her, I'd do ANYTHING for her. But it's becoming apparent that as my feelings for her have grown, her feelings for me have somehow "changed". I don't even know what that really even means.

One day we're looking at apts together, and we're genuinely happy and excited about it. We're loving and flirty with one another. Then less than 24 hours later, with no real incidence, she tells me she can't do this anymore. She doesn't feel the same, and she wants to be alone... So much so that she can't even talk to me. I try to contact her and I get treated like some cancer she need to remove from her life, when all I've ever done was be good to her. I always did my best to make her happy; although there were certainly times where despite my best intentions, I truly let her down, and from the bottom of my heart, I regret it.

But now, all she can say to me is "Just leave me alone", "I'm not ready to talk yet" and I swear it's killing me. For a couple days, I pestered her. I needed answers. But now, I'm giving her the space she asked for. I only wish she didn't have her friends in her ear telling her I'm no good for her when NONE of them really even know me and certainly, none of them know "us" and what we shared.

We both need to do some growing up. We're both 23 and this is the longest relationship (just over 2 yrs) either of us has ever had. Hopefully one day she'll grow up too and maybe she'll come back to me. I had hoped we could instead grow together, but maybe that's not possible for us just yet.

I bought her a ring two days before she broke up with me... I don't know what I'll end up doing with it..

I've told her how my feeling before. And as many of you probably know, it's a lot easier to say how much you love someone when you think you're going to lose them. She knows this as well, and is much more weary of this type of talk now that we've broken up.

I know that for now, I should simply let her go... move one. Try to be as selfish as she is right now. But it'd be nice to have some insight, maybe even some answers, in the mean time.


I can't believe how long that ended up getting... Sorry guys.

"She nearly begged me for marriage and children, and if nothing else, a solid, meaningful commitment... I couldn't give her that."

I think the apartment shopping hit home to her. She started to realize/think, "Is this really the right guy for me?"

If her dream/goal is to have children, but you are not willing to give her a meaningful commitment. It's kind of simply spinning your wheels, but not really moving towards a common goal together.

She probably felt that you still were unable to provide her with the commitment she is seeking.

Then why doesn't she just say that... Rather than some vague allusion to her feelings. I know she's always wanted commitment, but now she claims that she wants to be alone. What's real here? Why can't she just be straight up w/ me... You know?

I mean, she's asked me to, and I've already promised her, multiple times, that'd I'd never leave her. Now I'm standing here, in the place that she's always wanted me to be, and now she's not here anymore...

I don't think she knows what she wants right now.

She fought for so long and so hard to get a commitment that she may be wondering what she was fighting for. She may be trying to figure out if it is you she was fighting for or just the concept of being in a committed relationship.

She may be scared of waking up and finding out that you changed your mind about the relationship again.

I do wonder if there isn't a clue that you have missed/overlooked:

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Then less than 24 hours later, with no real incidence, she tells me she can't do this anymore.

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Did something happen during or after looking at apartments that maybe you are discounting but she isn't? Something that may seemed like a joke to you but could have set off memories of the past for her.

Give her some time and space. Don't look for issues with friends where there might not be any (this time at least). Give her a chance to get her thoughts and feelings straightened out so that she can tell you what is going on in her mind.

Remember you have said that in the past you had problems telling her how you feel and with being concerned about where the relationship was going. You dealt with your fears. Let her deal with hers.

She may not be "being selfish" but having second thoughts which she and everyone is entitled to have when they are about to embark on a new phase of life.
As CAT1864 so eloquently put "She may be trying to figure out if it is you she was fighting for or just the concept of being"

Sounds like she is taking a step back and re evaluating things. Did you not do the same thing with her? You were not sure of your feelings. She is being honest with you, respect it.

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Originally Posted by Cat1864

Remember you have said that in the past you had problems telling her how you feel and with being concerned about where the relationship was going. You dealt with your fears. Let her deal with hers.

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First of all, thanks... That helps. I'll let her deal... but I do worry that most of the time, she sucks at dealing... she's so anti-conflict, anti-confrontation that most of the time she just clams up and turns away from whatever it is that may be difficult or troubling to her.

I won't get into whatever it is between her friends and I, that makes for bad blood but it can't be good that they're allowed to influence her at a time when I cannot. It just nags at me...

As far as overlooking things... You may be onto something. There was a time in our relationship where we argued A LOT, over stupid things, seemingly over everything. It bothered her much more than it did me. Often times, whenever we're talking about something she doesn't want to talk about or deal with, she considers it an argument... and in a way, technically it is because I'm almost pulling teeth to get her to open up about things. It's so bad that if we go out on a Saturday and spend 5% of the time disagreeing on something, in her head, we spent the "whole day" arguing. It just reminds her too much of the time when we argued incessantly.

A few days prior to looking at the apartment, we literally had two spats spanning less than 10 min a piece over the course of a weekend. One of them was actually about me not giving her friends a chance when they were (supposedly) finally opening up to me (after disliking me for absolutely no good reason), and she expected me to just immediately pull their knives out of my back and act like everything is kosher. I need more time than that, and so I gave her a pretty flat "No way in hell. I'm not going to forgive them". She was upset but didn't say anything else about it. I know I was being an @%% about it, but, if she had sat me down and tried to help me understand how important is was to her, I'd have gotten over my pettiness and bit the bullet for her... I feel like after everything we've been through, she owes me that opportunity, she owes it to us to talk things out even when its not the easiest thing to do.

Anyway, the morning before she broke up with me, she made a joke about us "arguing all the time", I was kind of put off by it but didn't push the issue in fear of an argument about how much we actually argue (INSANE, I know)... It didn't seem to matter much because the next words out of mouth were "Love you too," as she headed out for work.

I hate that communication is so hard at times for us, but I know she's gotten better about talking through things with me than she has with anyone else, including family. I know that none of her friends care enough to tell her the things that she doesn't want to hear... So, to her I'm the enemy at times. And I hate being made out to be the bad guy for just doing what I know is best for her and for us.

I realize that I'm venting now, but I hope that's okay here.

Anyway, I know her well enough to know that these are likely some of the things that are heavy on her heart at the moment. I just wish she'd let me talk to her.

Nevertheless, I'll give her space for now and hope for the best.

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Originally Posted by Ther4peuticH3at

I hate that communication is so hard at times for us, but I know she's gotten better about talking through things with me than she has with anyone else, including family. I know that none of her friends care enough to tell her the things that she doesn't want to hear... So, to her I'm the enemy at times. And I hate being made out to be the bad guy for just doing what I know is best for her and for us.

I realize that I'm venting now, but I hope that's okay here.

Anyways, I know her well enough to know that these are likely some of the things that are heavy on her heart at the moment. I just wish she'd let me talk to her.

Nevertheless, I'll give her space for now and hope for the best.

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Perhaps this attitude of her inability to handle things reflects the way you treat her and she does not like it, maybe her friends don't like it. Your saying you know what's best for her, your saying you'll give her space for now, your saying none of her friends care enough about her to tell her things.. perhaps she is feeling this is not a match and she wants out. Maybe she is feeling controlled.
How old are the both of you?

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Originally Posted by Homegirl 50

Sounds like she is taking a step back and re evaluating things. Did you not do the same thing with her? You were not sure of your feelings. She is being honest with you, respect it.

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The only difference is, when I felt that way, I was completely open about it. I let her talk to me about whatever she needed, whenever I was available. If I ever broke it off because I wasn't quite ready to give her what she wanted, I STUCK WITH HER. I visited, I called to check on her; I never left her all alone, when I new she had no one else.

To be clear, I in these instances, we're talking about her wanting kids or marriage, when I'm STILL IN COLLEGE. Most of the time it would end with her admitting that maybe she was being irrational or unrealistic, or possibly just hormonal. Then I'd usually give her a week to be sure that's how she truly felt, then I'd come back to her.

I never shut her out like she's doing me now. It hurts.

Honestly, I've also straight up asked on multiple occasions if she was sure she wanted to marry me, more than she wanted to just be married. If she's all of a sudden not so sure anymore, I'm not going to be happy about that.

You don't have to be happy about it but you have to respect her decision.
You and she are different people and so you will do and handle things differently.
She has chosen to cut contact. That is her choice her right.
What is the year differential between the two of you?

Hope you enjoyed the good times because now its time to let it go.

Whether you are right or wrong is irrelevant, but what is obvious you both had different views on things for sure. You were unable to communicate, and where you think your building a relationship, she was going through the motions, doing the dance, and just woke up one day, and got slapped with cold reality. She wasn't feeling it, and probably never did. Her words had no meaning, because she was just doing what she thought everyone else was.

It happens, and you better be glad it happened, and glad its over, because she will take a long while to find herself, and you need to be doing your own thing.

The biggest clue that you ignored? She thought any disagreement was a big argument, that you passed over as not important. Different realities, that spell, incompatible, and lack of true communications. You also missed her relationship with her friends as that was a big clue to her not having true friends, just making more from nothing. That speaks more to how she feels about herself than you but clearly her priorities where right there for you to see.

Hate to kick a guy when he is down, but you honestly weren't paying attention as close as you needed to. Hope you learn from this, and I think you will.

No communications=no relationship. Too much playing at it, and not enough working together.

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Originally Posted by Homegirl 50

Perhaps this attitude of her inability to handle things reflects the way you treat her and she does not like it, maybe her friends don't like it. Your saying you know what's best for her, your saying you'll give her space for now, your saying none of her friends care enough about her to tell her things.. perhaps she is feeling this is not a match and she wants out. Maybe she is feeling controlled.
How old are the both of you?

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We're both 23. It's not solely my opinion that she struggles with conflict resolution and problem solving. She admits it and she acknowledges that when she finally calms down, she understands that I'm just trying to do best by her and she's glad for it.

She's a person that doesn't eat ANY vegetable because no one ever made her eat them when she was a child. I feel like sometimes I have to be her vegetables...

I hate even having to acknowledge this but she's actually admitted that sometimes she feels like I "sound like her dad" when I talk to her. When the reality of it is, I'm just trying to be clear and rational at times when she's genuinely being childish and/or stubborn. I know that sounds bad but heck, I can admit that sometimes I'm also childish, and I can recognize when that's the case and I'll never get upset with her for handling my childish attitude accordingly. Again, it's not like I'm disrespectful or that I talk down to her. I simply try to be as clear and understanding as possible.

I know I sound absurdly controlling, but I'm really not; I'd do this for anyone that I truly cared about. It's all in love. I want her to be the best, most complete person she can be. Sometimes I think that I want more for her than she wants of herself. I definitely expect more of her than she's really used to anyone expecting of her. I know that she's stronger and smarter than she ever gives herself credit for.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Hope you enjoyed the good times because now its time to let it go.

Whether you are right or wrong is irrelevant, but what is obvious you both had different views on things for sure. You were unable to communicate, and where you think your building a relationship, she was going thru the motions, doing the dance, and just woke up one day, and got slapped with cold reality. She wasn't feeling it, and probably never did. Her words had no meaning, because she was just doing what she thought everyone else was.

It happens, and you better be glad it happened, and glad its over, because she will take a long while to find herself, and you need to be doing your own thing.

The biggest clue that you ignored? She thought any disagreement was a big argument, that you passed over as not important. Different realities, that spell, incompatible, and lack of true communications. You also missed her relationship with her friends as that was a big clue to her not having true friends, just making more from nothing. That speaks more to how she feels about herself than you but clearly her priorities where right there for you to see.

Hate to kick a guy when he is down, but you honestly weren't paying attention as close as you needed to. Hope you learn from this, and I think you will.

No communications=no relationship. To much playing at it, and not enough working together.

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Isn't communication something couples can work on?

I understand that she has issues, and I'm far from perfect, but if no one is willing to work for love, then it never happens, period. That's my belief.

Honestly, I did see both of those things. I understood how they differed and I worried A LOT about our perceptions of the reality of things that carried on between us, mainly, the failed communications. I decided that we could work on that, and I know that we've made progress.

With the issue of her lacking true friendship, I thought that if I showed her something REAL... REAL friendship, REAL love... I thought she'd understand what she'd been missing. To be honest, the friends she's picked up since we've been together (unfortunately, the same friends that I haven't really gotten along with).. her relationship with some of these people is genuinely a proper friendship. I only wish she'd have chosen individuals with better character; though, I admit that I don't know them well enough to say such a thing for certain, it is merely my impression insofar.

I guess what I'm saying is. How compatible can two human beings really be? Aren't there always things that need improvement in a relationship? Doesn't love require work?

Maybe she got tired of trying to live up your expectations. What you saw she could be may not be what she wants to be. You could see yourself as what she needs but maybe you are not, maybe you are not what she wants. It could be that you two are not a match and perhaps she is sensing that.

Sure you can work on communications, and anything else that comes up. But with couples, they both have to first be WILLING to work together, and ABLE to do the work.

You have neither. Or at least, not enough. INCOMPATIBLE, is how I see it.

Sometimes we do our best, and for whatever reason, sometimes its just not enough.

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Originally Posted by Homegirl 50

Maybe she got tired of trying to live up your expectations. What you saw she could be may not be what she wants to be. You could see youself as what she needs but maybe you are not, maybe you are not what she wants. It could be that you two are not a match and perhaps she is sensing that.

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I hope not. It's not like I was trying tell her to quit her job or change her life, just what she thought of herself. She was so negative toward herself.

In some ways, for certain things in life, she's given up. In ways she's given up on herself, and I was just intent upon not letting her. She's capable of so much, and I just want her to know that.

She ain't listening to you, and doubt she ever was. Doubt she ever will. Save your breath.

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Originally Posted by Ther4peuticH3at

I hate even having to acknowledge this but she's actually admitted that sometimes she feels like I "sound like her dad" when I talk to her. When the reality of it is, I'm just trying to be clear and rational at times when she's genuinely being childish and/or stubborn. I know that sounds bad but heck, I can admit that sometimes I'm also childish, and I can recognize when that's the case and I'll never get upset with her for handling my childish attitude accordingly. Again, it's not like I'm disrespectful or that I talk down to her. I simply try to be as clear and understanding as possible.

I know I sound absurdly controlling, but I'm really not; I'd do this for anyone that I truly cared about. It's all in love. I want her to be the best, most complete person she can be. Sometimes I think that I want more for her than she wants of herself. I definitely expect more of her than she's really used to anyone expecting of her. I know that she's stronger and smarter than she ever gives herself credit for.

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The way you treat her IS controlling - it doesn't just sound like it. Every controlling person "supposedly" has the other persons best interest at heart, just like you say you do.

You probably do sound like her Dad. The difference is that her Dad actually did have her best interests at heart, whereas, you were just trying to be in control.

I can see why she ended the relationship. First off, she’s a grown woman who doesn’t need you telling her what to do and not to do. She needs an equal partner that respects her.

She tried to talk to you about her friends, so obviously it was important to her, but instead of you treating it as important to her you blamed her for not sitting you down and explaining the importance.

I’m sorry, but I think she’s done what’s right for her, and you need to accept it and move on.

Okay.. Well if it's not going to be me that helps her get to a place where she's truly happy and loves herself for who she is, and doesn't need anyone or anything to make her happy... Then I hope she finds her way there somehow.

I'll admit, I'm a little tired of all of this too. I could use a break as well... I just wish I didn't have to do it without the woman whose become my closest friend over the past two years. I told her things that I've never mentioned to people who've known me and have been VERY close to me almost my entire life.

If she doesn't come back to me anytime soon, I'm going to miss her dearly. But if it's for the best, I'll be glad. No matter what the circumstance, if she ends up finding true happiness within herself, I'll be elated.

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Originally Posted by Devorameira

The way you treat her IS controlling - it doesn't just sound like it. Every controlling person "supposedly" has the other persons best interest at heart, just like you say you do.

You probably do sound like her Dad. The difference is that her Dad actually did have her best interests at heart, whereas, you were just trying to be in control.

I can see why she ended the relationship. First off, she’s a grown woman who doesn’t need you telling her what to do and not to do. She needs an equal partner that respects her.

She tried to talk to you about her friends, so obviously it was important to her, but instead of you treating it as important to her you blamed her for not sitting you down and explaining the importance.

I’m sorry, but I think she’s done what’s right for her, and you need to accept it and move on.

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You're making quite a few leaps here.. I NEVER tell her what to do, I only offer my advise. I try to make suggestions, especially when something is bothering her. I have ALWAYS respected her.

She's had issues with my friends as well, and she was just as stubborn and pig headed, initially, as I was. But I WORKED with her about it. I worked with her and my friends. It took a while for both parties to come around, but eventually they did. I'm only asking for the same courtesy.

Despite the anonymity here, I won't go into detail about her father, but I will say, he's part of the reason she never thought she was worth much.

You can paint me the villain as much as you want... Maybe you're right to a certain extent, but I certainly never try to control her for the sake of "controlling" her. I just want her to make decisions that she'll be happy with. But I surely, let her do as she pleases.

That's good, then you simply let her do as she please now. Problem solved! Next is dealing with YOUR feelings in a positive way, so read the stickies and learn how the healing process works.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

You also missed her relationship with her friends as that was a big clue to her not having true friends, just making more from nothing.

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I don't see anything about her not having true friends, let alone making more from nothing. Where does it say that?

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You're making quite a few leaps here.. I NEVER tell her what to do, I only offer my advise. I try to make suggestions, especially when something is bothering her. I have ALWAYS respected her.

She's had issues with my friends as well, and she was just as stubborn and pig headed, initially, as I was. But I WORKED with her about it. I worked with her and my friends. It took a while for both parties to come around, but eventually they did. I'm only asking for the same courtesy.

Despite the anonymity here, I won't go into detail about her father, but I will say, he's part of the reason she never thought she was worth much.

You can paint me the villain as much as you want... Maybe you're right to a certain extent, but I certainly never try to control her for the sake of "controlling" her. I just want her to make decisions that she'll be happy with. But I surely, let her do as she pleases.

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Hi Ther4peuticH3at,
I just read this thread through and my overall impression is that you view your ex as very much not your equal. I don't think it's a leap to conclude that. You don't SOUND like you respect her at all. If this is respect, I'd hate to hear how you talk about someone you don't respect.

But now I'll make a genuine leap and guess that you generally feel that men are more capable than women and that any partner you have is someone you'll guide through life. Even someone genuinely incompetent is not going to appreciate such an attitude. I think she has done the right thing, painful as I'm sure it was, after being together for two years. I know the pain is very real.

My advice is that you take an extended time out from dating and figure out why you come across as overbearing, entitled, and patronizing---to your partner, her friends (apparently), and to total strangers. Like you said, none of us is perfect. The upside of anonymous web advice is total honesty--down side too.

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by asking

Hi Ther4peuticH3at,
I just read this thread through and my overall impression is that you view your ex as very much not your equal. I don't think it's a leap to conclude that. You don't SOUND like you respect her at all. If this is respect, I'd hate to hear how you talk about someone you don't respect.

But now I'll make a genuine leap and guess that you generally feel that men are more capable than women and that any partner you have is someone you'll guide through life. Even someone genuinely incompetent is not going to appreciate such an attitude. I think she has done the right thing, painful as I'm sure it was, after being together for two years. I know the pain is very real.

My advice is that you take an extended time out from dating and figure out why you come across as overbearing, entitled, and patronizing---to your partner, her friends (apparently), and to total strangers. Like you said, none of us is perfect. The upside of anonymous web advice is total honesty--down side too.

Good luck!

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Ehh, I Think calling him "overbearing, entitled, and patronizing" might be pushing it a little too far.

"I just want her to make decisions that she'll be happy with." Seems pretty respectful to me.

I can understand the part where it seems like he might be controlling if he is having issue with her friends, but it seems like they might not be the greatest friends to begin with. (There might be more or less to the story we are missing)

asking, could you go into a little more detail about how his behavior has been disrespectful?

@ asking

Actually, I respect her so much that I've told her on more than a few occasions that I thought she was a stronger person than I am. I've told her how proud I am of her, and what she's accomplished already in her life. I just won't let her stop and give up on herself, or tell herself that she can't do it, or tell herself that she isn't good enough for anyone or anything.

So you're right, I don't see her as my equal; in so many ways, she's such a better person than I am. In fact, she's the one who acts as if I am somehow superior to her. I repeatedly try to show her that isn't the case. She's changed me in ways I never thought possible. She could do anything she put her mind to. She's AWESOME.

I can see how I might come off to some people, but someone has got to understand me. Here, I'll give you a for instance.

There are times when she'll bring up how she REALLY wants to go back to school, to be one thing or another, to do something she might actually enjoy for the rest of her life. She'll even ask me if I could help with certain things. Then like a month later, it'll come up and she'll start talking about how she isn't smart enough, or how all of a sudden its not worth doing, like she (her contentment) is not worth the trouble. This is the stuff that I'm talking about.

Seriously, what is going on here?! First I'm controlling and overbearing; now I'm a sexist bastard that considers his partner some sort of "project"? Like I'm doing her some sort of favor by "putting up" with her. Like I'm some Christian bringing the word of God to the barbarian... Give me a break. (Not to offend any missionaries)

I'm only saying that people who love each other are supposed to bring the best out of one another; they're supposed to want the best for one another. I support her in whatever she does (as long as it's not hurting her or causing her some great distress). I just try to let her know when she's setting her sights lower than what she's capable of; yet, at the same time, I'll love her regardless. She can do whatever she wants if it truly makes her happy.

About her friends:

This is so crazy to me. Because I ALWAYS pushed her to make more friends, and to make better quality relationships with those people. I swear I've never told her "de-friend" anyone. It's none of my business. Why would I do that? One of the most important and personal decisions we'll ever make, involves those we choose to surround ourselves with. That's wholly her decision.

Often times I would sit and defend some of they're actions, hoping to bring to light what things might be like from their perspectives. I did this even for the ONE friend that I don't get along with. (in actuality I only have issue with ONE of her friends. It just happens to be that this friend has become by far her closest, and has introduced her to many of her other new friends) Though at times I'll admit that I get frustrated with how a few of her friends have treated her. I generally won't say much if anything at all in those instances; it's between her and them.

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Originally Posted by CarrotTalker

Eh, I Think calling him "overbearing, entitled, and patronizing" might be pushing it a little too far.

"I just want her to make decisions that she'll be happy with." Seems pretty respectful to me.

I can understand the part where it seems like he might be controlling if he is having issue with her friends, but it seems like they might not be the greatest friends to begin with. (There might be more or less to the story we are missing)

asking, could you go into a little more detail about how his behavior has been disrespectful?

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I agree with ASKING. What part of what he said indicates that her friend are not the greatest? It could be they see him as being controlling and they are trying to get her to see that.
I think he is a bit controlling too, talking about what he will put up with for a while or her friends are not good ones, not allowing her to go out with her friends to certain places. Is he her daddy? They are the same age for goodness sakes. He makes it sound like he is head and shoulders above her.
I think she is having second thoughts about him and he needs to respect her decision.


It seems to me you talk about this young lady like she is a child you are mentoring, not an adult woman.
She has told you she needs space from you and here you are questioning her decision because you "know best" that "hopefully she will grow up" I find that controlling.
Respect her decision and leave her alone.

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Originally Posted by Homegirl 50

I agree with ASKING. What part of what he said indicates that her friend are not the greatest? It could be they see him as being controlling and they are trying to get her to see that.
I think he is a bit controlling too, talking about what he will put up with for a while or her friends are not good ones, not allowing her to go out with her friends to certain places. Is he her daddy? They are the same age for goodness sakes. He makes it sound like he is head and shoulders above her.
I think she is having second thoughts about him and he needs to respect her decision.

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I think you might be speaking from some personal experience that I have absolutely nothing to do with. When did I ever say a WORD about telling her she can't go places?? Hmmm... sounds a bit like a Freudian slip to me. Its funny too, because I've never told her she couldn't go ANYWHERE she wanted to.

I never said I was somehow any better than she is. I fully expect the person I'm dating to be HONEST with me and tell me when I may want to reconsider some of the things I'm doing. So often we get so close to something, so involved, that we can't see the big picture sometimes. She's done that for me, and I owe her so much for it.

And I've already said this, but my beef with her friend has to do with her judging me before even trying to get to know me... Kind of the way you are now.

Geez, I said WE BOTH have some growing up to do. And sometimes that doesn't happen when we don't let it; I was just trying to say that I hope she does let it happen. We're 23 for goodness sake, I plan to spend the rest of my LIFE growing as a person, learning, and loving, and perusing my happiness. I'm a work in progress, and so is every other human being out there.

I can assure I have no personal experience with this, I am not projecting!
I was in error in the not being able to go anywhere part and I apologise. (I read and answer a lot of these in the course of a day and a lot of these problems are similar) but I am going by what I read and you even said she says you sound like a dad with her.
You sound controlling and condescending to me, you judge her friends except those that meet your standards. This sounds like a parent, not a partner.

I think part of her growing is taking some time away from you. Maybe she wants to spread her wings.

Again, who said anything about her friends not meeting MY standards... Why would her friends have to meet my standards? In general, when I speak of the quality of her friendships, I'm speaking with regard to the relationship that they share. If she's talking about how this friend always does her wrong... Stands her up when they're supposed to go out together... Doesn't even speak to her when they see her out... If she really has no meaningful relationship with that person, then he/she isn't truly a friend to her, and she can certainly do better than to call or treat them as such.

When I speak of the character of her friends not being what I'd prefer, I mean it. But honestly, I don't know them well enough to assume their character; it's just that from what I do know, the impression isn't all that favorable. It's not like I tell her who she can and can't be friends with. I just don't always get along with every one of them.

Heck, I don't always like the character shown by my own friends, but I love and accept them regardless. And I give my ex all the right to do the same with her own friends. (I'm also sure that at times my friends aren't all that pleased with MY behavior, and yet they love and accept me all the same)

And I'll admit, I can imagine myself sounding VERY condescending at times. And I work on that. I'm only trying to be clear and precise with my choice of words.


Also, this is me sitting in an anonymous forum, talking ABOUT her and ABOUT our relationship. This isn't me in a room with her, saying TO her, how she needs do yada yada yada, and get her life together. For the record, her life is fine as long as she's happy with it.

I invite you to go back through your post and read what you've said about her friends and how it may be construed.
But anyway, in the future lighten up a bit. Give the girl some space, let her make up her own mind.
I wish you well.

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Originally Posted by Homegirl 50

But anyway, in the future lighten up a bit. Give the girl some space, let her make up her own mind.
I wish you well.

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:) :)... I can do that.

Sincerely, thank you for sharing your views and opinions. Please don't let my argumentative nature prevent you from posting further.

It does bother me when I feel like people aren't understanding me, and I think that I generally have a hard time letting go of things. So many times, she urged me to "just drop it." But I struggled to do so. If I'm working on a problem, or a program, or just trying to fix something that isn't working right... I generally obsess over it until it is resolved. This is definitely a fault at times. I'll tell myself I'm going to leave it alone, only to end up right back at it just a few moments later.

"My argumentative nature"... Speaking of which, how the heck do I abate a tendency like that? Maybe I'll work on just keeping my mouth shut...

There's the old adage: bickering like an old married couple... How often do people in healthy relationships bicker with one another? I suppose it doesn't matter as long as they're happy together...

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Quote by asking,
I don't see anything about her not having true friends, let alone making more from nothing. Where does it say that?

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Just gleaned it from what was written.

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I won't get into whatever it is between her friends and I, that makes for bad blood but it can't be good that they're allowed to influence her at a time when I cannot. It just nags at me... One of them was actually about me not giving her friends a chance when they were (supposedly) finally opening up to me (after disliking me for absolutely no good reason), and she expected me to just immediately pull their knives out of my back and act like everything is kosher. I need more time than that, and so I gave her a pretty flat "No way in hell. I'm not going to forgive them". She was upset but didn't say anything else about it. I know I was being an @%% about it, but, if she had sat me down and tried to help me understand how important is was to her, I'd have gotten over my pettiness and bit the bullet for her...

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Which led to this

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Different realities, that spell, incompatible, and lack of true communications. You also missed her relationship with her friends as that was a big clue to her not having true friends, just making more from nothing. That speaks more to how she feels about herself than you but clearly her priorities where right there for you to see.

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And confirmed here,

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If she's talking about how this friend always does her wrong... Stands her up when they're supposed to go out together... Doesn't even speak to her when they see her out... If she really has no meaningful relationship with that person, then he/she isn't truly a friend to her, and she can certainly do better than to call or treat them as such.

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She was having her own problems, with the people she was chosing to hang with, so the conflicts that led to this break up was more a combination of bad events, not just ONE event, but over time, she made a choice for herself, and there is no right or wrong, just too many conflicts for this thing to survive.

I swear I'm SOOO tired of conflict... I need a break. And I need to convince myself that I don't need her... It's just so hard.

I know that for a lot of women, when they tell you about a problem, they typically just want you to listen and console them. I, on the other hand, typically want to help them solve w/e it is... I can't help it. A lot of times I bite my tongue, but probably too many times, I don't. It's frustrating because immediately, when she tells me w/e is going on, HER problems become MY problems. If it's bothering her, it bothers me... That's just how I am.

My friends are now telling me that I was "out of her league" to begin with. I don't believe that. My mom helped remind me that I'm a good person; if she truly loved me, she'd understand where I was coming from. I should have been more wary of someone who claims to love me, but can't even say she loves herself.

I know I'm a good person, but it's hard to imagine a relationship working out better w/ someone else. My friends and family think I have no reason to change who I am... But I worry that maybe I should consider it anyway.

Sorry this is so long!

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Originally Posted by Ther4peuticH3at

Okay.. Well if it's not going to be me that helps her get to a place where she's truly happy and loves herself for who she is, and doesn't need anyone or anything to make her happy... Then I hope she finds her way there somehow.

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No matter what the circumstance, if she ends up finding true happiness within herself, I'll be elated.

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You subtly imply that it'll be a miracle if she finds happiness without your help. That's patronizing.

You say you will be elated if she ends up happy, but really you are unhappy because she broke up with you. You frame most of this as if she'll be so much happier if she comes to her senses and comes back. Hey, it's okay to admit that you are miserable without her. It doesn't have to be about how SHE is making a huge mistake. Who are you kidding? This thread is really about what's good for you.

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Despite the anonymity here, I won't go into detail about her father, but I will say, he's part of the reason she never thought she was worth much.

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Sounds likely. But the last thing she needs is another person who is constantly evaluating her every thought and act.

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You can paint me the villain as much as you want...

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I don't think you are a villain, just that you have no boundaries. You see her an extension of yourself instead of a separate person. And she's an uncooperative extension of yourself, like having an arm that has a mind of its own. Very frustrating!

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I just want her to make decisions that she'll be happy with. But I surely, let her do as she pleases.

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You LET her do things? Exactly. You decide what rights she has. That is not respect.

And I don't believe you when you say you want her to make decisions that she'll be happy with. You want her to make decisions you and your mother and friends will be happy with. That's not the same thing.

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I just won't let her stop and give up on herself, or tell herself that she can't do it, or tell herself that she isn't good enough for anyone or anything.

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Again, you won't LET her [fill in the blank]. It's not up to you to "let" or not let her do anything. Parents "let" their kids do things. You are not her parent.

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And I give my ex all the right to do the same with her own friends.

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She has rights that precede your existence. You as an individual cannot "give" her rights.

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And I'll admit, I can imagine myself sounding VERY condescending at times. And I work on that.

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I support you in that!

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Also, this is me sitting in an anonymous forum, talking ABOUT her and ABOUT our relationship. This isn't me in a room with her, saying TO her, how she needs do yada yada yada, and get her life together. For the record, her life is fine as long as she's happy with it.

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No. That won't fly. People can read minds. If you talk this way to us, it seeps through in everything you and do and say to her. She knows how you think.

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So many times, she urged me to "just drop it."

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I can imagine!

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But I struggled to do so. If I'm working on a problem, or a program, or just trying to fix something that isn't working right... I generally obsess over it until it is resolved. This is definitely a fault at times. I'll tell myself I'm going to leave it alone, only to end up right back at it just a few moments later.

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You do need to work on this. It's one thing to obsess about your own problems, but if someone says you are violating their boundaries (and "just drop it" is a way of saying that) you need to be able to hear that and respect that immediately. Ask before offering advice and really LISTEN to the answer. Just as you would not enter a house without knocking and waiting to be invited in, you should not try to "help" someone make their life decisions without an explicit invitation or at least permission to do so.

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"My argumentative nature"... Speaking of which, how the heck do I abate a tendency like that? Maybe I'll work on just keeping my mouth shut...

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No. The problem is not your mouth but in your mind. You need to adjust your attitude and that's frankly far harder. But, you know, like you said earlier, ALL of us have to work on ourselves. It's not easy.

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I know that for a lot of women, when they tell you about a problem, they typically just want you to listen and console them.

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This isn't really a male female thing. Men also need other people to hear their problems and just listen sometimes. That's often what they need most from women, because they may have a hard time finding a male friend who can do that. Sometimes problem solving is what people want, sometimes, just a sympathetic ear. A true friend asks which is appropriate and gives the other person what they most want. Often, it's hugs first, then problem solving. But again, problem solving WITH boundaries.

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It's frustrating because immediately, when she tells me w/e is going on, HER problems become MY problems. If it's bothering her, it bothers me... That's just how I am.

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There is actually research that shows that, on average, men are more upset by hearing their partner's problems compared to when women listen to men's problems. Not sure the reason for this. But I would say that it would be helpful if you could train yourself to listen to her without becoming upset. Practice thinking of her problems as HER problems, not yours.

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My friends are now telling me that I was "out of her league" to begin with. I don't believe that

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It sounds like your friends have been undermining your relationship. You shouldn't have to apologize for who you are with. If you think you can do better, then you should let her go and find someone in your league.

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My friends and family think I have no reason to change who I am... But I worry that maybe I should consider it anyway.

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Everyone can change for the better. They are being nice to say you shouldn't change. But of course you can become a more respectful partner if you choose to and of course that would be a good thing. This isn't about whether you are a "good person" or a bad one. Things aren't that black and white. Plus it's about action not intrinsic qualities. Ask yourself, how can I change my thoughts and actions to become a more respectful partner for my next girlfriend--who will be someone I fundamentally respect and do not feel like I have to improve to satisfy the other people in my life because I won't care what they think?

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Originally Posted by asking

You subtly imply that it'll be a miracle if she finds happiness without your help. That's patronizing.
You say you will be elated if she ends up happy, but really you are unhappy because she broke up with you. You frame most of this as if she'll be so much happier if she comes to her senses and comes back. Hey, it's okay to admit that you are miserable without her. It doesn't have to be about how SHE is making a huge mistake. Who are you kidding? This thread is really about what's good for you.

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Of course, I'm kind of miserable right now. What, did you think I wasn't aware of that, or somehow afraid to admit it? And yes, I think highly enough of myself and our relationship to say that I do wish she (rather than "comes back to her senses") figures out what she really wants... and yes, I hope that turns out to be me, and what we shared. How bad is that??

I know her, and I know that before we met she was CONVINCED it was impossible for her to be happy on her own (SHE TOLD ME). We worked on that together, WITH HER EXPRESSED PERMISSION. (Geez, do I really have to spell that out?) The only problem is that she will implore me to help her, and to push her to work on it, then a few weeks later she'd totally shut down and refuse to talk about it and get upset with me for pushing the issue. I don't, I CAN'T force her to do anything. I CAN'T DO THAT, I AM NOT CAPABLE OF MAKING HER DO ANYTHING SHE DOESN'T WANT TO DO. And I wouldn't want to be able to, that's the beauty of a relationship.

So, do I think it'd be a "miracle" if she found happiness on her own?? NO. She's more than capable of doing so, it's just a hard thing to do, and she, by her own admission has struggled with it in the past. I'm just worried about her. Why the heck can't you read THAT between the lines?

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You LET her do things? Exactly. You decide what rights she has. That is not respect.
Again, you won't LET her [fill in the blank]. It's not up to you to "let" or not let her do anything. Parents "let" their kids do things. You are not her parent.

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Are you kidding? What verb am I supposed to use there? I say that I let her do what she wants, not because I'm some merciful God blessing her with free will. I'm just saying that I don't get in her way.

And when I say I won't let her do things that are self defeating and degrading to herself, I mean it the same way I wouldn't let my friend drive drunk, or drop out of college because of a breakup. Again the term LET refers only to me getting in the way, advising one thing or another, not pulling my hand out of some puppet. People have to do what's best for themselves, and they have to come to conclusions and decisions on their own. Friends, GOOD friends, step in and TRY to make a difference when they are needed (WHEN APPROPRIATE).

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No. That won't fly. People can read minds. If you talk this way to us, it seeps through in everything you and do and say to her. She knows how you think.

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People can't read minds. People make assumptions based on their own beliefs.

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You see her an extension of yourself instead of a separate person. And she's an uncooperative extension of yourself, like having an arm that has a mind of its own. Very frustrating!

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I thought that when you're in a relationship, your partner is, IN MANY WAYS, an extension of yourself, and you of them. You become ONE. Not to say that you can't be your own person or have your own individuality, but in terms of the relationship and your journey through life, you are together, you are one. I mean, you maintain your sense of self, buy you're a team working together... I don't know how to better explain it, but I'm sure somebody will get my drift.

Anyway, she's not my unruly hand, because I'd just cut it off and be done with it. She's her own person, I just want her to be her own person and still want to be with me. NOT THAT I AM OR COULD EVER FORCE HER TO WANT ME. It's just my wish.

I appreciate your input, and I really thank you for reading through my novel of a post here. I understand a lot of what you're saying, I just have to contend a few things.

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Originally Posted by Ther4peuticH3at

:) :) ... I can do that.

Sincerely, thank you for sharing your views and opinions. Please don't let my argumentative nature prevent you from posting further.

It does bother me when I feel like people aren't understanding me, and I think that I generally have a hard time letting go of things. So many times, she urged me to "just drop it." But I struggled to do so. If I'm working on a problem, or a program, or just trying to fix something that isn't working right... I generally obsess over it until it is resolved. This is definitely a fault at times. I'll tell my self I'm going to leave it alone, only to end up right back at it just a few moments later.

"My argumentative nature"... Speaking of which, how the heck do I abate a tendency like that? Maybe I'll work on just keeping my mouth shut...

There's the old adage: bickering like an old married couple... How often do people in healthy relationships bicker with one another? I suppose it doesn't matter as long as they're happy together...

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This could be part of the problem with her. Your need to be Mr. fix it! You want to fix her life and fix her and maybe she is just tired of being with someone who thinks she needs to be fixed.
Learning to keep your mouth shut will help. You may have the answers but sometimes a person needs to figure things out on their own. And not everything thought necessarily needs to be voiced.

Lol, w/e... I'm done with this post.

I don't want anything for her anymore. There's plenty I haven't said here, and I don't need to. Bottom line, its over.

You are free to explore your world, enjoy!

So yesterday I found out she left me for someone else, all the while telling me she just wanted to be alone/she wanted to be on her own again... The funny thing is, this guy had been pursuing her since December. And I knew what was going on, I was kind of crossed because felt like she was "letting" him make advances, instead of just ending it. But I never brought it up, I TRUSTED her... with all her "I love you" "You're my whole world" "You're the only one I ever want to be with" "You're my soulmate" "I've never felt this way about anyone else"...

For anyone whose kept up with this thread, I've been beating my brains out trying to figure out what I had done that was so wrong... Everything was good, then without incidence she had totally changed stripes on me. Yet, what I had missed was this guy professing his love to her in a Facebook message and her reading it in the hours between waking up next to me and coming home from work (to break up with me)...

And now I just feel so stupid. I ignored my better judgment in favor of trust and love and a hope for the best... God, I could do so many hateful, unspeakable things right now.

I get that I'm lucky she out of my life now. I wouldn't want to share my life with someone like her. I'm just so ANGRY. I mean, this is more than anger... It weighs on my heart, every thought, every feeling I have is soaked in it. I don't want to carry this around any longer than I have to. I don't want to become something I've never been.

I'm sorry you are hurt, but unless she is just a total "B" people don't just change without incidence. Another person cannot just walk into your life unless there is an open or cracked door.
At any rate you have an answer so it's time to let this go. I have a feeling you will be able to do it quickly.

Right, so her betrayal is somehow partly MY fault? Are you kidding me?

No I didn't say that!
What I mean is, there were some problems in the relationship.
When things are going well, when people are happy another person cannot just walk in and take the heart of a person.
If this guy had been after her for several months, there was a crack there, she was letting him in.