Yeah, that's what I think as well. My only problem is that I go to school with my friend, and my seat is the seat right next to him in the classroom.

On the bright side, I have just five days left of school before christmas, so I think I can make it through. I just don't know how to act towards him those five days, because I'll see him all day for those five days at school.

As far as my ex goes, I'm sticking to no contact with her. I feel better over the situation between me and my ex today, I just don't want to loose my friend as well. But even though I don't want to loose him, I don't know if I can take it if he essentially steals my girlfriend. All I know is that he does well in letting it rest for a while right now. If things are to work out between my and my friend, I think he should stay away from my ex for at least a couple of months, but only time will tell.

That's up to them what they do about each other, and you have no control over that, but you can control your own actions, and remove yourself from this mess.

These things tend to have lasting effect on everyone involved, and your to emotional for the "what if" drama.

Dear Misshersomuch,

I hope you follow Talaniman's advice. This is out of your control and will only serve to hurt you if you keep giving it importance in your life. All the best.

(I'm afraid this got quite long, as usual. Sorry!)
Thanks for your replies guys.

I know you are right, but I'm just so confused by my mixed feelings right now.

On one hand, I suspect that my friend still has a relationship with my ex, which bothers me to say the least. If he does, it's what I consider a serious trust issue - does that mean I can't leave him alone with any future girlfriends, because of the fear that he might kiss her or try to steal her? And how can I forgive him for stealing the girl I love?
In one way, I don't want her back, because of the pain she has given me. I'll always think about the risk for that happening again, of her hurting me the same way.

On the other hand, I still love her very much - despite her actions and mistakes, and I miss her so much. If she came and asked me today, asked of forgiveness and a new chance, I wouldn't be able to resist. I messed up once, in a matter of how she felt and how I acted towards her (I acted childish, you could say), and she gave me another chance. I feel that if she really wants a new chance, and tells me the right things, she deserves one.

I just don't know what to do right now. I really, really don't want to lose my friend, but as I said, if he goes after her, how can I forgive him for that?

I still want her back, but I have no idea what she wants.
I saw her twice today. The one time, I walked past her classroom and looked her straight into her eyes, sort of by accident (I didn't realize she was sitting there before our eyes made contact). She just looked at me, and I couldn't make myself stop to see her reaction of seeing me, even though I wanted to.

The second time, I saw her standing talking with her friends. I was standing with some people from my class, about 50m away. I kept looking towards her, and at first she didn't seem to be annoyed by this, but all of the sudden she walked away with her friends, might have been an incident though.

I'm thinking of giving her a christmas gift after all, to more exact, there's an artist I really like and that I know that she likes but she haven't got any records by him. I've always talked about making a best of record for her, and I was thinking maybe I could do that for her for christmas. But on the other hand, maybe I should stay away completely from her.

I really don't know what to do right now. My friend seems to be very down from all of this, and I didn't talk much with him at school today. I just don't know what to say to him. If he is in fact having a relationship with my ex, I don't know how to forgive that. But on the other hand, I don't see him as the type of doing that. But I guess people can surprise you.

One thing that I am a bit surprised by, but I guess I might just be analyzing this too much, is this.

About three months before I started dating my ex, I dated this other girl at my school for about a month. I don't really know why, because I didn't have any special feelings for her. It turned out she did have for me though, so when I realized that I didn't, and ended it, she became very hurt. I felt bad for all of this, but at the time I was so insecure about my feelings.

When I got together with my ex after this, this other girl became very mad at her, I guess you could call it jealous.
My ex felt like this girl hated her.

A couple of months later, this girl gets together with a mate of mine. They seem to be happy together etc.

In the summer however, it turns out she cheated opn him. On several occations, and it went pretty far (we're talking sex here).
At first she lied about it, but then he found out and broke up with her.

Now, I've learned that my ex all of the sudden started hanging with this girl after our break-up. Mind you that this girl used to hate my ex, and they never hung together before.
I sort of have a feeling that my girlfriend might be doing this because she knows that this girl have gotten over cheating on a guy, is this ridiculous and paranoid of me to think?

If you cannot see you need to step way back from this entire situation, then I don't know what to tell you. You are to close to have an objective perspective at this time. Now your grasping for straws to explain what you don't know.

I know I should be staying away from all of this, especially my ex - which I believe I am, going one week of no contact now.

It's just the whole deal with my friend that's bothering me the most, and I don't think I can pull away from that as easily. I don't know how to act towards him or say to him right now, because I don't really know what the situation with him and my ex is, and I don't know how to ask him either. All I know is that if there indeed is something between them, I'll just have to avoid him for a while, because I see stealing your best friends girlfriend as something that just isn't acceptable.

But on the other hand, I don't see him as the guy to do such a thing. But then again, I wouldn't expect him to kiss her in the first place.

I will stay away from my ex the best I can, but I feel like I need to sort out the situation with my friend right now. What should I do? Talk with him again?

It's a tricky one,maybe you're better off leaving things as they are till after the hols-that would give you more time to get heal . Overthinking any situation is not a great idea,even though I can understand why you're doing it.

Even though it is the hardest thing to do, you need to do nothing. Just leave it alone for the moment till you have more perspective. And definitely don't give you ex a present!! That would only do harm to both you and her.

You've talked with them both already. If you think about it they've alread told you what the situation is. She doesn't want to be with you. They are most likely not together and will not get together and anyway there is nothing you can do about it.

Just chin up and wait out this pain. Try to fill your time with activities. All the best.

The overthinking is a trap that will keep you in its grip, and have you replaying parts of your life over and over again.

It becomes a continuous loop, and each part becomes more and more complicated because the questions just keep repeating themselves.

Accept that you cannot read minds, see the future, or change the past. It is what it is, quite simply, out of your control.

That is the most difficult thing to accept. Keeping the thoughts going is a way of hanging on to possibilities, solving the problems in order to get the answers you want.

Try to focus on practical, day to day things that you do have control over, and that don't cause obsessive thoughts.

Thanks for all of your replies. The last 24 hours haven't been quite as I would've thought.

Last night, she sent me a message saying she wanted to call me. She said she wanted to talk, because she could guess how I was feeling through all of this insecurity. My first thought was to keep up no contact, but as you've probably learned by now I'm weak for closure. Besides, I felt like she might need it for her own well being as well, so when she called, I answered.

We talked for quite a while. She told me that her and my friend have very strong feelings for each other, but because of me and my well being they didn't want to do anything, to not ruin me and my relationship with my friend. We talked about this for a while, and she told me that she feels like she has hurt me way too much already, and that she doesn't want to break my heart completely.

After a while, she asked me how I was doing. I told her I was doing OK and not to worry, but I think she might have been told from my friend that I'm not doing that well. Anyway, she said that I shouldn't lie to her, and told me to tell me how I really was doing.

Before I knew it, I fell apart and just started to cry. I told her how I was doing, which is not very well, having not eated or slept properly since the break-up. She comforted me over the phone for almost an hour. We then decided to meet up today, so that we could talk plus she wanted to give me a hug.

I don't think I need to go into details about this talk, we talked about her feelings for me and my friend, and more about how they didn't want to anything with it (yet, anyway) so that they don't tear me apart. I told her I appreciate this. Most of the conversation was really just about how we both were doing and more into details abot everything.

I also admitted to her, because I felt she deserves me being honest with her, that I'm not over her yet, and that I still have very strong feelings for her. She told me that she understood, but that she couldn't do anything with it. I told her I knew that, and that I respected her feelings and wishes, and that I was trying to get over her for her sake, but it would take time.

Throughout the whole time, she was great, really. She kept trying to make me smile, gave me lots of hugs and really showed me that she still cares about me. I felt a lot better after this talk.

She told me that she had been thinking about me every day, every hour and every minute since the break. I told her that I had been doing the same for her and then we talked a bit about all of that (I don't think I need to go into all the details, or this will get far to long).

I told her that I appreciated all of her honesty, and the fact that she cares so much about me. I also said that I could see reasons for not doing this, but that I wanted her to tell me about it if something happened between her and my friend. Being honest would be best for all of us.

She told me to contact her if I needed to talk and to take care.

As I said, I'm a fan of closure,

I think I'm going to talk with my friend tomorrow, to let him know how I feel about all of this. I don't want to loose this friendship of ours, but he needs to rebuild the trust he broke in that case. I believe friendship is built on trust - I need to be able to leave my girlfriend with my friend without him kissing her.

I feel one step closer to getting over her now, really. It felt good to talk with her anyway, and she sent me a message later saying that she felt the same.

What do you guys think?

(I don't think I left out anything important, but just ask if you think that I did)

I think you need to stop calling her your girlfriend.

Whoah, yeah you are definitely right, and I've been calling her my ex for the previous posts. I guess it's what you could call an online slip of the tongue.

EDIT: If you mean in the part where I say I need to be able to leave my girlfriend with my friend without him kissing her, that was meant in a more general way. Saying, if I get a girlfriend later on, I need to be able to trust him. (And she was still my girlfriend when he kissed her)

I don't think that is something you should be concerned with right now. You can sort that later on with your friend when you are better, sometime in the future.

Also, if your next girlfriend loves you and wants to be with you, she won't want to kiss other guys. I think your ex did this mostly because she didn't want to be with you but didn't know what to do. I know screwy isn't it.

Yeah, I know that about my ex, she's been completely honest about losing her feelings for me etc. It sort of makes it easier for me to get over her, strangely enough, knowing that she doesn't feel the same for me as she used to. It makes it easier to realize that it in fact is over, rather than the relationship ending over a disagreement.

About my friend, yes, it's an issue for the future, because I know I'm far from ready for a girlfriend now. It will end up bad for both me and her if I get one right now, I'm just not ready for it.

However, I do feel like I need to rebuild my relationship with my friend from day one, therefore, I think I should talk with him, even though it's still hard for me.

Quote:

---

I believe friendship is built on trust - I need to be able to leave my girlfriend with my friend without him kissing her.

---

I think you meant what you said, it was not a slip of the tongue, and it was not meant to imply something other than what it was.

This really has to stop. She needs to leave you alone and stop the b.s. your friend needs to stop the b.s. and all three of you need to live your own lives.

You cannot pretend that what you are doing, thinking, and how you are behaving will have her return to you. If she does, it will be out of pitty. What she is doing, is warming you up to the truth that she wishes to be involved with your friend, but she doesn't want you to be unstable when she does.

While that may seem 'kind' and 'caring', it is not her concern how you get over her, only that you do. Her sentiment is merely to clear her own conscience, not ease yours. And don't think for a moment that her and your friend thouroughly talk this over.

I am out of advice for you, and tired of going around the mullberry bush here.

Time to make a decision, take responsibility for your own life, let others live their lives, and get a grip on this.

Why you set yourself up to be crushed over and over again, is beyond me.

I know that she won't return to me, and I'm starting to accept that. I know this.

I really meant nothing else than I said I meant by using the word 'girlfriend'.

I'm sorry to seem so arrogant over this, and I'm just a little kid, but I still believe that they have talked about this. Because I know them better than you, I know how they tend to act. I choose to believe them.

EDIT: And I know I can't keep them from being together. In fact, I believe they will end up together eventually. But I also believe them when they tell me that they won't do anything of the likes as of yet. And, if they choose to do so (before I've gotten the time I need), I'm ready to just walk out on them, because if they at that point don't care that much about me, I don't see why I should care about them. But I believe in forgiveness, and I believe in giving people another chance.

I agree that they are as you've said nice and kind people. That is why you liked them in the first place. But I agree with what Jake says about the bs. Even though your ex is trying to help you by talking to you. These hugs and talks aren't helping you at all.

To move on from this place of pain you need to maintain no contact. And if you want to, then talk to your friend, I can't stop you I'm in cyberspace :D lol. But I would advise you to give it a bit more time. He's your friend, he'll still be there in a few week or months or when you are a bit better.

Also I think you should only talk to him when you don't break down when you think about your ex with another person. Because when you start rebuilding your friendship with him, you can't have any ulterior motives, i.e.. Influencing him not see her. And truthfully that is one of your motives. The only outcome you can control here is how you behave.

Hi again,

I found this really great post by Zeenie

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/relati...ml#post2128432

(I only read page 18)

She gives this really great report on 13/12/09 on how she is doing a year later. And I thought you might like to read it.

Hei! Its really long but went interesting as its completely genuine and straight from your heart. Its good that you are in an approx to like both your girlfriend and your best friend. And I should not regret you anyway. I appreciate your understanding. I guess, all mis-understanding are disclosed. Well, I would like to suggest you suggestions writing my own short story. Its real as you could find my interest commenting you on your note as your feelings almost exactly corresponds to my feelings these days. In my situation,I could pretend as your girlfriend. I hope its interesting to you.

This summer 09', I happened to meet a sporty girl as to my liking every time. Knowing each other better and better for the next 4 months till now, we happened to like each other. Just to like not to love. I proposed her after 5 months since our first meet in a way sending a text message 'I LIKE YOU'. We were totally not in love,I guess. From next day, we felt comfortable dealing each other in front of friends and our family members. I feel very proud to be next to her every time. I liked to be teased by my friends when I am with her. Commitments were the things we had been trying to develop. She believed me more than I did to her as I feel. I want to make it short (we knew each other very well that I feel she cannot have any reason to regret if only if I proposed her)

On those days, I was working as a tutor for my University here in Finland. I was supposed to help a sexy sweet Russian girl. We happened to be in the same apartment. We became friends. We were good friends. Although, my liking girl (near girlfriend) was not near with me, but I feel comfortable explaining how much I like to that girl to my sweet Russian friend. I know we were, we are and we would be just just only friends. In fact, I have told to my girl, that I have a very good Russian fren and bla bla. She din't have had any problem. I was happy to make strong bond between us without any feeling of jealousy. But, situation turned worst.

One day, some few weeks ago, my liking girl's brother happen to see me and the russian girl on the way to the Market. We were under the same umbrella catching hands as to the compulsion for the rainy day. I admit that seemed kind of peculiar and an image of a play boy. But, I am not. There was not even any thing that I feel describing word 'Pleasure for opposite sex'. Well, the Russian girl could only understand the situation.

Next day, in msn my liking girl sends me note that she would just like to be my friend rather than being in any kind of relationship. I was surprised. Trying to find out the reason for the note, came to know that I was actually with the russian girl. I was stopped. I didn't have any answer. Subsequently, she dumped me so easily. Those belief, those moments were just those. They are past. And today, I am just suffering. I hate myself. I ask myself- Why would I try to be with any other else if I already like someone so much? But, its just the situation that made me so 'CRAP'

Well, my liking girl she understands me. Russian girl did talk to her. Everything is okei. But, not the same feeling. I reckon, we are not meant to be together. Its life. My situation made me post in Facebook the same songs we used to like together that could satire her. My Facebook status is always highlighting those extra-ordinary moments we had. Everything I do, I do for satiring with infinite expectation so that she could be the same girl I used to be with.

I hope you understood. I love if the girl comes to me, at least talk good way. At least walk with me. At least feel pity for me. Catching hands or kissing good are so far away but happened to do the same to whom I don't love or like at all.

Analysing your note and my situation broda, I hope you just need to ring the bell of your girlfriend and then give a smooch kiss until she feels relaxed and calm. I wish my girl would do to me. I think we have almost the same story. Just the gender is different. And, that the point. That's has made me easy to share my feelings to you. You are in internet so I don't feel any regret sharing feelings to unknown people.

I am sure you will get your girlfriend back if you have courage to propose her once again, if you really feel that whatever she posts in Facebook or whatever she does satires you in a way... because... in my story.. I am your girlfriend. I want you to come to me and propose me, kiss me, love me.

GOOD LUCK MAN!

Yours unknown New friend...
CHEERS"""!!
MERRY CHRISTMAS

Warning: This got very long, I'm sorry and I hope you'll bear with me. I just have a lot to say.

-

Thanks a lot for your replies, everyone. I have read them all, and I appreciate all of them.

I haven't posted in a while, because I knew it would have to be quite long, and I've been quite confused you could say.

This will be more of an update than a reply, really.

-

There are some things I haven't talked a lot about you guys with.
After the breakup, I have been having serious issues of sleeping.
I counted back one weekend, and found out that I had slept a total of about 10 hours over those past five days.

I've also been having trouble eating like usual, and at the worst I was down at one or zero meals per day. This is quite unusual for me, I love eating (but I'm skinny).

Another thing I haven't told you guys too much about either, because I thought I was dealing with it myself, is that I have been having suicidal thoughts.
Not every day, but once in a while since the breakup. The reasons I haven't told you is that I always “talked myself out of it”, but I see now that I perhaps should have.

-

The day after I met up with my ex (15th), I went back to no contact with her. I didn't speak too much with my friend either, as I'm starting to feel more and more like he let me down. I don't want him to know that I feel like this, because he's been having depressions earlier in his life (as shortly described in first post), and I think he might be headed back into some of them now.

-

The next day (16th) I was back at the suicidal thoughts. Only this time, they were more intense and serious than ever, I was considering the pros and cons of different methods, and the percentage rate of success.
I'm not kidding.

At one point, I went up on the roof as well (fifth floor), but I wasn't close to the edge before turning around.

I thought “OK, this is serious” and that I no longer could handle this myself. I didn't feel like talking with anyone about this kind of stuff, as it's quite personal in one way. I decided to do as you guys plus my ex had advice me to, and I went to see the school nurse.

I talked with her for about two hours. I talked about everything from my childhood etc. (do you want me to go into detail about this? Let me know and I'll do. I won't now to keep it shorter) to the past weeks.

I really felt a lot better after this, and I haven't been considering suicide since.

At this point I felt like I needed to talk with my friend (I hadn't spoken seriously with him for the past few days), and tell him how I felt etc. But on the other hand, I still have too much in my head to think completely straight now, and I sure did back then.

I decided to talk with him but to keep it as short as possible.
I walked with him home from school, and told him that I didn't want all of this to ruin the relationship between me and him, but at the same time this isn't something I can accept. (Not going into details to keep it shorter).

He told me that he fully understands, and that he never wanted this to happen and that he messed up big time. He said he wished that all would be back to normal.

At this point I had broken down and could barely talk. I just told him again that I don't want this to ruin anything, but right now I simply don't know and that I just need some time. He told me that he understood, and felt the same way.

-

When I got home, I forced myself to eat something. After that I spent the rest of the day and evening with my sister (19 yrs), who had just gotten home for Christmas as she lives in a different country.
As I said, I spent the evening with her. I actually sat up with her until about 03 AM, and it was the first time in weeks I had been able to relax for a longer period.

As I was going to bed, I checked my phone, and noticed a lot of calls and messages from my ex spread over the past 4-5 hours.

I could tell from the messages that she needed someone to talk to, so I decided to call her back.

I don't think I've ever heard her this far down. She told me that she really, really misses me and that she just couldn't bear it anymore. She had been hiding those feelings from me, in order to not hurt me anymore. I told her that I miss her as well.

After that, I tried avoiding that sort of talk with her (for my own sake, as far as getting over her) but I talked with her for about two hours, trying to make her feel better. When we hung up (about 05 AM), we had agreed to meet up tomorrow and talk some more. I could tell she needed it.

-

I met up with her at a café, and at first I tried to focus on her and how she was doing. Of course, we came into the subject of her missing me.

I considered just rejecting her, but I couldn't make myself do it. I know you guys will object to this, but I was prepared for this and had decided already. Let me at least try to defend my decision:
I know I'm putting myself up to be hurt now. I know.
But I feel like this: no pain no gain. The first time I opened up for her, I ran the risk of getting hurt as well. Not as badly, of course, but still. I had been in love with her for two years so it was a big step for me. But I took the chance. What did I get? The best year of my life, with the girl I love.

So, I decided to be honest with her.

I told her that I miss her as well, and that I still love her. We talked things through, and we both agreed that if anything were to happen, both of us were going to need time.

Over the evening we got close and closer again, and we ended up kissing. I can assure you both wanted it (at that time anyway), as it happened rather slowly and both of us had the chance to back out several times.
After that, we both agreed that if anything, both of us need time.

We spent the rest of the evening together though, and went to eat and actually had a very good time. I felt as a friend to her at that point, nothing more, and didn't act otherwise either. I think both of us had good use of that time together, as it was a chance to relax a bit and not worry so much.

I think she felt better after this, seemed like it anyway.
-

The next few days, I didn't speak too much with her. Our only contact was over online chat, and consisted mainly of friendly chatting.
She brought up that she had been working on a Christmas gift for me, and I confessed the same.
We decided to meet up on Saturday to exchange gifts.

We met up, and she seemed very happy to see me. I hadn't seen her like this for a long time, certainly feeling better now.

What I gave her was:
Chocolate I know she likes, to cheer her up when she's down.
A CD I've promised to make her long before this happened.
Another CD I know she'll like.
A poem I wrote to her. (Love poem)

She made me open her gifts at that time, so I did the same to her.

Her gifts were great, and made me really happy (doesn't matter what they were).

I warned her before giving her the poem that she might not want to read it. She insisted on doing so.

She read the poems before my eyes. When she was done, she started crying. Then she gave me a big hug, saying it was the best gift she had ever gotten. I could tell that she was touched.

After this, we said goodbye (she's gone away for the holidays now), and wished each other happy Christmas, and gave each other a big hug. We agreed that if any one of us wanted to contact each other, we could do so by phone.

I spent the weekend with my family and buying Christmas gifts for relatives.
-

On Monday (21st) I talked with the school nurse again. I told her the truth, that I'm feeling a lot better.
I'm no longer feeling suicidal, at all, I'm sleeping much better (not normal, yet) and eating a lot more (not normal, yet).
I also told her about what happened since the last time that I met her, and she made me feel even better.

The next couple of days were spent with my family. I'm looking forward to meeting the rest of my relatives (that live in my hometown) tomorrow, another chance to relax a bit. I'm really glad I have a holiday now; it's a great chance to fix myself, if I could put it that way. I feel like I need the break.

-
In general, I feel a lot better now. As I said, I'm eating and sleeping a lot more than I did.
I also feel glad that my friend seems to be on the same page as me, if you could say that. I feel egoistic for thinking like this, but I don't think our friendship can go back to what it was if he gets into a relationship with my ex. Not for a long time, anyway.

I'm not sure, at all, what's going to happen between me and my ex. I literally have no idea. I do however feel better after we talked, because we both got to say how we felt and agreed on taking some time before deciding anything – whether it is to try again or to say broken up.

-

I do know I might have done a stupid thing by not rejecting her calls. I know I'm putting myself up to be hurt by her, and used by her to feel better. I know this.
This is a chance I'm willing to take.

However, if I find out that she in fact is using me to feel better, as if I'm the guy you can come to when you need him and leave him In a dump for the rest of the time, I will let her know that I won't accept that. I just won't put up with it.

But as long as I don't think this is the case, I'm taking the risk.

Thank you for reading all of this. I'm sorry it got so long. I hope you understood most of it, don't hesitate to ask if something is unclear or you're wondering about something.

I appreciate all replies! And Merry Christmas to all of you!

On the plus side, you are in control, and slowly finding your comfort zone for both your friend and your ex.

I think it was inevitable that you would eventually have some sort of face to face encounter, and I think you handled it well. I am very proud of you that you went back to the nurse, and took that step.

What you do next is up to you, but try to remember to put it all in perspective, and keep it that way, you will have to be prepared for good, and bad. If you can somehow even out the emotions and just take it and see things for what they are, you won't end up backsliding to that dark side again.

I am happy you are busy with family and Christmas. It will be good to catch up and have some fun with them and give you something to keep you busy.

I truly hope you have a peaceful holiday, and that you'll post with your progress.

Hi again Jake, thanks a lot for replying!

Yes, I definitely feel like I'm in control again.

I actually feel more or less ready to start working on my friendship with my friend again. I know this will take time, but I feel like he's too good a guy, we are too good a match and used to have too good a relationship to let a girl get between us. I'm not even seventeen yet!

I like this saying, even though I believe in true love:

Girls come and go but true friendship lasts forever.

I'm not saying I'm ready to start pretending like nothing happened or something, I'm more thinking of getting back to rehearsing with the band we both play in (been 8-9 weeks since the last time) etc.

I also feel more ready for facing whatever happens between me and my ex now. I no longer feel like my life, future or happiness depends on her. It's actually quite a relief to be rid of those thoughts! I guess you could say I'm starting to believe more in myself.

I don't know how I'll feel about all of this tomorrow though. My feelings about this (well, about how ready I am etc.) change from day to day. Perhaps I'm thinking too positive because of how great a time I had with my family this evening, who knows.

Bottom line is that I'm feeling better!

Thanks a lot, I hope you have a great holiday as well. I definitely update you on how I'm doing.

By the way, I have an appointement with the school nurse for the middle of January plus a standing agreement to contact her if I should need to. It feels good to have someone to contact, and I somehow haven't been able to say much to anyone I "know". A lot of people have asked, and even though I want to talk with them I just can't do it. But now that I have someone to talk to, I feel much better.

Merry Christmas!

Take care.

I'm happy that you're feeling better!
Have a Merry Christmas and A Great 2010!

Short update (actually, it got quite long as usual):

We (my ex and I) have been a little on and off on the contact side lately, so I decided to send her a good night message last night (text message). Just friendly, saying "Good night:)".

The reply I got said something about her following a relative home, because of the weather and that I should sleep well etc. She finished the message with hearts and saying that I'm her beloved (in a lover way, not friend way).

Two minutes later she said sorry, that she's a little drunk (she was at this sort of party thing that night), and that the message was indended to a friend of hers (with dots after that). She also apologised, and said that she didn't want to confuse me.
I should add that this is a close, female friend of her.

I replied asking if she usually called her friend for her beloved. She said first that she didn't realise, then that it wasn't intended to send it to me. I asked who the message was intended to, and she replied the same thing. Then she said I must've misunderstood, and that it was an internal humour thing.

I said that it all seemed a little weird, and she said that it's not because she had this little gag going on with this friend of her that night (I know she was with that friend).

I said okay, and good night.

Now, you can all guess what I'm thinking. I want to believe her, but it seems to me that the most likely scenario is that she sent a message to me instead of to my friend (mentioned in this topics title), by accident.

The reasons I am doubting this, however is the following:

She has said she doesn't want to ruin my friendship with my friend, and knows that them having a relationship will.
He has done the same.
She has told me that she loves me a couple of weeks after we broke up, and she seemed still interested in me.
Both of them have guaranteed that there's nothing between them.

So, I sent her a message this evening, asking who the message really was intended to. I haven't gotten a reply yet.

I don't know what to do about this. I've gotten to the point where I was starting to move on, I've stopped taking it all so badly and I was ready to start working on my friendship with my friend, and to place that friendship a bit higher on my priority list than trying to win back this ex of mine.

Now, I don't know what to do. I know that if this is what's happened, I cannot regain my friendship with him (this is what I'm imagining has happened right now):

He kissed my ex while she was my girlfriend, which lead to her breaking up with me and getting together with him, thus making me feel like he stole her from me.

What's worse about this is that if this is true, he has also lied to me about it all - over a long period.

Now, her being dishonest to me, I can sort of live with - because right now I'm starting to accept her not being a part of my life anymore (unwillingly, but still).

Getting this from your best friend, whom you go to school with and play in a band with though, is worse.

If this is the case, I see no choice but to just break off the friendship. I feel like I deserve better than this in the first place, and especially if he has lied to me.

On the other hand, I know I tend to overanalyze stuff and always prepare for the worst case scenario. The good part about that is that I won't get so crushed if it's true, the bad thing is that I might tend to always think bad of people and come with false accusations.

I also have a feeling that I'm taking this all to serious and that they both have been honest to me, and that she actually intended to send that message to her (female) friend.

I want to believe her. I want to believe him.
I want to believe that they respect me so much that they don't have anything going, and she IS capable of pulling such a gag (she does things like that). The thing that makes me wonder is that she actually wrote this love thing in spanish (she is fluent in spanish), and as you might now, spanish grammar differs between male and female. She used male.

What should I do? I have already sent her another message asking who it really was to, but haven't gotten a reply (as I said).

I was planning on contacting my friend tomorrow, to plan a band practice, but don't know after this.
On one hand I want to ask him straight out, however, I feel like I'm asking him all the time if there's something between them, and I've already told him that if he wants this friendship to work he needs to be honest and open to me about it if something is to happen between them.

I'm really lost right now!
Right now, if my worst case scenario is true, I don't care about my ex anymore - not in that way anyway, I've sort of given up on us two if that's the case.

My friend however, if he first steals my (ex)girlfriend from me (I say steal, because she was with me when it all started. Would've been a different matter if we already were exes as we are now), but even worse lies about it - not once or twice but many times - over a long period. I can't live with that, but I don't want to "live without him" either.

What should I do? I'm seriously lost in my thoughts right now.

Did she use the word querido? If so it was meant for a guy so that sounds dodgy to me.
On the other hand if they are seeing each other don't you think you'd have been told by the gossips by now?
I think you need to go complete NC with the ex-to avoid all confusion when she next drunktexts you.
As for your friend how many times can you ask him?
If he is lying to you he won't admit it never mind how many times you ask.

She wrote "amor mio" with hearts around it.

Yeah, I'm going to go NC now after I've gotten a chance to ask her again. The reason I wasn't NC now was the definitely was sending me signals of wanting us to work it out, as I've described earlier.

I don't know what to do with my friend, that's where I'm lost. I might be wrong about all of this, but if I'm not I just can't accept it. IF this is what's happened (still if), meaning first stealing my (ex) girlfriend and then lying, I can't keep considering him a friend of mine.

However, he's the opposite of the guy I'd expect to do such a thing, and I just can't make myself believe that this is in fact what's happened.

I need to know for sure if it's the case or not, but I don't know how to find out. As youv'e said, if my friends lied already he might as well do it again. I don't know if my ex will reply to the message I sent.

I don't know about the gossip part, as I really don't think her friends would "betray" her and tell if she told them not to tell. They're not that kind. And besides, I have no troubles imagining her keeping it from them.

In a way, this might be something I needed to really start realizing that me and my ex are no more. And it feels god in a way, because then I've at least got a definite answer. Seeing it as I've been trying to accept losing her for a month now, that's not the worst thing anymore. It's my friendships that's bugging me.

I cannot let my friend steal my (ex) girlfriend, and then lie to me and still be my friend. But on the other hand, I don't want to draw any hastened conlcusion based on something that might be a misunderstanding (from my part).

I somewhat doubt getting a reply from my ex, and don't know how to ask my friend in the proper way!

Tell him that if he values your friendship he owes you the truth. And if it IS true he is not who you thought he were.

Drop contact with her, and stop this line of questioning, with your friend. Since you know nothing, after all this time, and are still suspicious, leave him alone also.

Its time to let this mess go before your mind starts playing tricks on you. Through all this he seems to keep saying ain't nothing going on, and so does she. Has he ever initiated any kind of conversation to reassure you, or proclaim his innocents? If not leave him alone, and if he is a friend he will be asking you what's up.

For sure the more you push, the less you get, so stop pushing, and let the truth come to you for a change. Just keep your mouth shut, and your eyes open.

I will do as you suggest, talaniman, however the following has happened:

She contacted me, and has assured me that the message was indeed intended for her friend, and not to mine. She also assured me that she barely has any contact with him anymore.

I will go into no contact with her again now. I will also wait out for my friend to take action, rather than doing it myself.

I should say that he's approached me multiple times during the past weeks, asking if I wanted to talk. I've tried sometimes, but never really managed to say much. It's not all that simple for me, I'm still having a rough time.

On one hand I feel you're completely right, tal, when you say I should be leaving him alone (I will stop bothering him with questions anyway), but I still feel like it will be for the best of our friendship if we start working on it. And I also feel like having a band practice is a good way to start. After all, we are going to have to live with each other in one way no matter what, seeing it as we still have 2.5 years together in the same classes.

I feel more secure now, anyway. I know my ex might be lying to me, but I've gotten to know her pretty well over the past year and I believe I know when she is being sincere. She was actually quite upset about all of this suspicion of mine (which I can understand).

Bottom line: I will NC with my ex, and either try to work things out (babysteps) with my friend or go NC with him 'til we are both ready.

I've been doing my best to cheer up lately, spending a lot of time with family and relatives plus watching feel-good movies. I definitely feel motivated for working on my friendship.

Thanks a lot for your replies guys, you always help at getting things into perspective.

Another short update: I'm not very good at NC, so when my ex contaced me (on MSN) and started to talk with me, I replied.

I told her that I'm still very confused of all of this, and (with all due respect) I'm tired of not having the slightest idea of what she really wants.

She was really tired (it's 04:25 AM so I can understand that), so we decided to talk tomorrow (probably on the phone or over MSN).

I'm not sure how to approach it, well I'm sort of. I'm going to take it as it is, a talk with my ex. I'm not having false hope of us getting back together or anything, rather the other way as she was sort of signaling that she's not interested in me anymore.

I just want to know what's going on really. I have no problem with me and her not being together (finally), I'm getting over that now, if she wants me back, I won't come running this time, she'll have to convince me. If she wants it to stay ended, fine. My main worry right now is whether something is going on with her and my friend, as I've said earlier.

I know I said to go NC, but when she approached me and wanted to talk things over, it just felt right, so I went for it.

I'll expect the "worst" and just take it like it is. I'm beyond the point where the worst case scenario would equal the end of the world, right now I just want to end all of this drama and move on from the whole situation, really.

With or without my friend, with or without my ex, I want to move on.

You let us know how that works, but waiting for a confession when there is nothing to confess ain't my idea of moving on. And she will only add to the confusion. And drama. That's simple enough to see. The moving on is up to you, but will never happen as long as she has her hooks in you.

Forgive the guy, and let it go.

That's really what I want by now.

I want to get over her - and I definitely feel like I'm heading the right way there. I have been at most two days without really missing her.

I'm not waiting for her to confess about anything she hasn't done, I just want to know what to expect and what's going on, really.

I also want to forgive him, but it's not that easy for me. To me, forgiveness or not depends on if he get's together with my ex. Not forever, I don't think that I can sort of have a ownership right on her or anything, far from it. I just feel like he needs to respect that she was my girlfriend and not get involved with her - at least for a period.

If he is in fact staying away from her (in that sense, atleast), I know I will forgive him.

But if this is the scenario that's actually happening:
He kisses my (ex) girlfriend, thus stealing her plus lying about it for over a month.

That's something I cannot forgive.

So, to sum it up, I need to have a talk with both of them before being sure about what I should do.

I'm ready to let her go by now. My main concern is my friend.

My "dream" scenario is for this to happen:
She saying she wants to keep it ended, and that she doesn't have and doesn't want a relationship with my friend.

In that case, I will go NC on her and work on my friendship.

Anyway, I will let you know how it goes.

Thanks for your reply, tal :).

I agree with Tal's statements. If you're to have a good relationship with your friend, you need to trust him. So trust him and see what happens. And I am so glad that you said you are moving on and are over all her BS.

Okay, this will probably get quite long, as always.
I don’t know quite where to start, but I’ll try to take things from the top and keep them in that order:

We talked on the phone for about two hours tonight.

I told her that I know that it hasn’t been easy for her, and that it still isn’t, but that I can’t take anymore of all of these mixed signals.

She told me that she still didn’t know what to do. She told me that she had been moving on from me, because apparently I hadn’t convinced her enough that I wanted her back.

This got me pretty mad, and I think I might have overreacted but heck – I don’t regret it, because I couldn’t accept that statement. I still think it’s an unfair statement.

I told her about how I was getting a different signal from her every time we spoke.
First, she went out and did all of those things, and even though people can do mistakes, they really hurt me.
Then she broke up with me.
Then she told me that she had no feelings for me, and that she was in love with my best friend.
Then she told me that I had to move on, that it was over between us.

Later, she told me that she still had feelings for me but things are hard.
Then she told me to get over her.
Then she told me that she still loves me, and later we kissed.
Then I didn’t hear much from her.
And then comes present.

Now, during all this time, I did the following:
I told her about how I felt.
I showed her my feelings for her, and that I still wanted her back.
I comforted her.
I left her alone when she wanted me to.
I tried to get over her.

My question was; how could I do the following at the same time:

Leave her alone, get over her, comfort her and win her back?

WHILE dealing with the following:
Hurt and let down by my best friend.
Hurt and let down by my girlfriend, the girl I loved.
Left by the girl I loved.

I told her that I have done my best to understand what she wanted, but that I couldn’t do it no matter how hard I tried.

She got a bit upset, but I repeated what I had said. I don’t see how I could’ve shown her that I wanted her back more than I already had done – while at the same time leave her alone and get over her.


Then, the conversation took a different direction.
I asked her what she felt and what she wanted.
She told me that she felt that things could never ever work out between me and her, in the sense of getting together. I asked her why, and she told me that she just felt that way.
I told her that I understand that, but that I want to know if there was any special reason, like if I had done something or she had lost her feelings for me.

She told me she didn’t feel the same way for me anymore.
I asked her why she had told me that she did and then kissed me but never really got a reply.

Then I asked her how she was standing with my friend.
She told me that she had been keeping something from me; they have indeed had some contact.
I asked her if they were friends, she said yes.
I asked if there was something more, she said no.
I asked her if the message (“amor mio” thing) was intended for him, she said yes.
I asked her if she doesn’t think it’s strange to call your friend “amor mio” (“my beloved”), she said that I didn’t understand.

Then she explained how things had happened:

She had a crush on my friend way back (before me and her happened).
She got over it.
She had a crush on me, and we got together.
When we got together, she got to know my friend better, and after a while started having feelings for him. (The feelings came back shortly before all the drama started).

After me and her broke up, she was still in love with my friend. She needed someone to talk to, and went to him. He wanted to stay away from her, for my sake, but she kept contacting him. He comforted her but insisted on keeping it to that.
She told me that she had tried to stay away as well, but that it wasn’t so easy.
She said that she had been sending him “amor mioish” stuff sometimes, but that he never replied the same way (even though he has feelings for her).

I asked her straight out if they were together, she said no.
I asked if they were kissing or holding hands when they were together together, she said no.
I asked her if they had any relationship beyond friends, and she said no.
I asked her if she doesn’t think it’s weird to send those messages to a friend, and she tried denying that it sounds a bit weird.

After this, I was so upset and I lost it for a sec. I asked her if she ever had feelings for me, or if I was always nr 2, behind my friend. Of course, she got upset. I know that’s not how it is. I know she had feelings for me, and I spent 10 minutes apologizing. I think she forgave me for losing it.

She said that she feels like she has messed everything up.
While I to some extent find myself blaming her sometimes, I disagree, and told her that. I kept telling her about all of the good things she has done to me and made me do for myself (childhood related, I can tell you more if you want, but I’m trying to keep it short for now. Ask if you want to know!).

She said that she has fukced everything up for good now, and that things will never be the same.
She said that if it wasn’t for her, I would be talking with my friend on the phone now –not her.
I told her that it wasn’t true, and that I (and this is true) want to get back in contact with my friend, and explained how I felt about everything.

I said that if she has been completely sincere this time, everything will be sorted out in time.

This is about as far as the conversation got, I think she got tired of talking with me, really. I know she was tired already, and I got upset and cried among each other. Anyway, I told her that we might talk again sometime if she wants to, and she said maybe.

***

Okay, this was a bit of a shocker to me.

To begin with the good bits:
She was honest with me, she doesn’t think we can ever work things out. This makes it even easier for me to move on, and I feel ready for being single now. No kidding. I’m not saying I have a date for New Years Eve, but still. I can handle this. Me being without her isn’t going to be a problem. I know this by now.

The bad bits:
She has lied to me about some things, but really, I feel, is it really a big deal? I do not feel like I can trust her any way after all that’s happened, and to be honest, she’s wasting herself being dishonest – not me.

What’s worse is that my friend has lied, or I thought he had anyway.
Come to think of it, he’s explained the following:

He have been talking with my ex, and getting more contact with her, but didn’t want to make a move or anything, for everyone’s best.
I told him I appreciated that, and that I wanted him to be honest if anything happens between them.
Now, according to my ex, all that’s happened after this is a bit of comforting and her showing her feelings to him, without him responding in the same way. No girlfriend/boyfriend situation.

This, I can live with. I can live with him being friends with my ex. In time, maybe I can handle them being a couple, but not right now.

My first thoughts were: “OH MY GOD, HE LIED TO ME!”, but he never really did.
What I want to do now is talk with him. Hear his story, confront him with what I now know and fint out if it’s the whole truth, and tell him this:

If he wants this friendship, the following needs to happen:
He cannot engage in a relationship with my ex for a period. In time, maybe, I cannot rule over this forever, but this short after – I want some respect.
He also needs to tell me if ANYTHING happens between them, if they kiss, get together, send messages, anything. Honesty is required for me to trust him.

I’ll then tell him that I’m giving him another chance. He’s a good guy, he deserves it. I trust him again.


***

What do you guys think about this? I appreciate any replies, as I don’t doubt that I’m seeing this from one perspective only. Please, no reply is too short or too dumb, and no question is too silly.

Thanks for reading all of this.

To be quite honest I think that you are better off without both of them. It is my view that if he was truly your best friend he would not have kissed your girlfriend in the first place. I know who my best friends are, and I would never do anything remotely close to that. If their girlfriend did try to kiss me I would push them away. That is what true friends do - that's my two cents on that matter.

I really don't think you're losing much cutting off contact with either one of them. The ex has proven that she is a liar, and doesn't know what she wants out of life -- too bad, leave her alone to figure that out on her own. She has made her bed, now let her lie in it. Don't be there to comfort her at the cost of your suffering and tricks on your mind, it will delay your healing... and for what? To help out the person that broke your heart? No thank you. I've been down that road, me trying to show the ex how much better off she would be with me, than what she is choosing -- it's a losing battle. You can't save somebody from themselves. I was entirely dedicated to my ex and was going to pay for and put her through her final 2-3 years of college and would've ended up marrying her when we were both at the right stage of our life. Where is she now? She's been dropped out of school for almost a year and is back living at home with her parents. Furthermore, once you nurse her back to health she'll be gone anyway to the next guy who is not as available as you are.

Adios to the friend who has not been honest with you.

I'm a pretty black & white person :) Best wishes!

I'm going to be harsh. Stop all contact with both of them. They've both lied and deceived you and its time to STOP the BS and get past this mess. Stop trying to be Mr Nice guy and go NC and stick to it this time , you need to heal And you won't as long as you are all over the place trying to sort this out.

I'm sorry guy, but you have had enough respect from your friend, and enough of the games from your ex. Have some respect for yourself now, and get out of the way, and I mean completely out of the way of their business. Enough, is really enough. Leave them both alone, as she is clearly pursuing him for her own purpose, and you trying to control what they do is not possible.

Your the one who is hurt, and must deal with that yourself, and if by now, you don't have the closure you need to leave her alone, and stop making this a bigger drama than what it is, then that's your misery you bring to yourself.

Whatever role your friend is playing in this game, is his business, and you need to let him deal with it. You sure can't stop it, so leave them alone.

You talk so much of respect, with your artificial deadlines, and guidelines, but it starts with you, doing what your supposed to without imposing it on either of them.

You can't force a girl to have feelings for you, and you can't impose your feelings, or brand of respect, on your friend.

Now get out of everyone's business, and get your own. Get on with your own life, and get some new friends. Personally, your friend should tell you that himself, get out of his business. I would.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CanIBuyAClue

To be quite honest I think that you are better off without both of them. It is my view that if he was truly your best friend he would not have kissed your girlfriend in the first place. I know who my best friends are, and I would never do anything remotely close to that. If their girlfriend did try to kiss me I would push them away. That is what true friends do - that's my two cents on that matter.

I really don't think you're losing much cutting off contact with either one of them. The ex has proven that she is a liar, and doesn't know what she wants out of life -- too bad, leave her alone to figure that out on her own. She has made her bed, now let her lie in it. Don't be there to comfort her at the cost of your suffering and tricks on your mind, it will delay your healing... and for what? To help out the person that broke your heart? No thank you. I've been down that road, me trying to show the ex how much better off she would be with me, than what she is choosing -- it's a losing battle. You can't save somebody from themselves. I was entirely dedicated to my ex and was going to pay for and put her through her final 2-3 years of college and would've ended up marrying her when we were both at the right stage of our life. Where is she now? She's been dropped out of school for almost a year and is back living at home with her parents. Furthermore, once you nurse her back to health she'll be gone anyway to the next guy who is not as available as you are.

Adios to the friend who has not been honest with you.

I'm a pretty black & white person :) Best wishes!

---

I've gotten to the point where I agree with you about my ex. I still have feelings for her, but at this point, all the negatives summed up is more than all the good things. As I said, I still have feelings for her, but I don't want her back.

I'm definitely going to quit being there for her now. When she accused me of not wanting her back enough, I really lost the rest of my motivation to help her - even as a friend.

To my friend, however, I slightly disagree with you.

To be more precise, I agree on the part that a real friend doesn't do that kind of thing (kissing your friends gf).

However, he's always made it clear that he regreted it instantly. He says he didn't know what was happening before it had happened, and that he actually cried all the way home because of guilt.

He's not really been dishonest with me, I feel. Given that I know everything by now, of course. I feel like I have more reasons to doubt it than to trust it, but that's why I want to talk with my friend before I know exactly how to act.

I still feel like forgiving him, though. Everyone can make mistakes, and I feel like he deserves another chance. With that being said, I will make it clear that it's his last chance, if something like this ever happens again he won't ever get another one.

***

Quote:

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Originally Posted by amicon

I'm going to be harsh. Stop all contact with both of them. They've both lied and deceived you and its time to STOP the BS and get past this mess. Stop trying to be Mr Nice guy and go NC and stick to it this time , you need to heal And you wont as long as you are all over the place trying to sort this out.

---

Even though my first thoughts when I discovered my ex has been lying was that so has my friend, the more I think of it he never has.

I'm going to stop contact with my ex for sure now, and if she contacts me, I doubt I'll even be a friend to her (not saying I'm an arch enemy, but I'm not going to be there for her).

But my friend stated the following early on, he has some contact with my ex and even though they have feelings for each other he doesn't want to make a move. As far as I know, that's still true, meaning he hasn't lied.

I'm going to talk with him, and if he says the right things (from my perspective) (which are that he has no relationship (beyond friends) with my ex and won't have one either (for foreseeable future atleast)), I will give him another chance.

If I get any reason to doubt that these are the facts, I will probably "give up" our friendship. It might be egoistic of me, but to me those are the requirements for this to work right now.

***

Quote:

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Originally Posted by talaniman

I'm sorry guy, but you have had enough respect from your friend, and enough of the games from your ex. Have some respect for yourself now, and get out of the way, and I mean completely out of the way of their business. Enough, is really enough. Leave them both alone, as she is clearly pursuing him for her own purpose, and you trying to control what they do is not possible.

Your the one who is hurt, and must deal with that yourself, and if by now, you don't have the closure you need to leave her alone, and stop making this a bigger drama than what it is, then thats your misery you bring to yourself.

Whatever role your friend is playing in this game, is his business, and you need to let him deal with it. You sure can't stop it, so leave them alone.

You talk so much of respect, with your artificial deadlines, and guidelines, but it starts with you, doing what your supposed to without imposing it on either of them.

You can't force a girl to have feelings for you, and you can't impose your feelings, or brand of respect, on your friend.

Now get out of everyones business, and get your own. Get on with your own life, and get some new friends. Personally, your friend should tell you that himself, get out of his business. I would.

---

Really, I agree without you, but still disagree. Let me try to explain.

I know that I can't control either of them. I've given her up by now, really. I'm (too) weak for closure, but I believe I've had my share of it now. I'm ready to leave her.

I don't want to control him either, I just want to know what he wants and let him know my premises for our friendship to work right now. I feel like he should stay away from my ex this shortly after we broke up, as I believe that's what a friend should do. If he disagrees, he can be my guest but needs to take the consequences as well.

I feel like this is a bit selfish of me, and that on one hand have no say on this. I can't control him, but I can control myself. In order to control myself properly, I want to know how the road ahead of me looks.

It's hard for me to go no contact with him at this point, beacause I feel like I need to sort things out with him, one way or another, sooner or later, because I have 2.5 years of school together with him ahead of me, so I feel like sooner equals better in this case.

I also think that the more I postpone this, the harder things will get. I'm going back to school on the 4th of January, and don't want to have this hanging completely over us (for both mine and his sake).

I am however doing what you're saying, getting on with my life and making new friends. Well, they're not new, but I've been spending time with some people I knew better a couple of years ago, and we've really been having lots of fun, which feels great.

I no longer feel dependent on any of them, I just want to get this out of the world as soon as possible and from my view, the best way to do that is to talk with my friend.

***

Thanks a lot for all of your replies. They've really helped, I think I needed the harsh tone. I know I need to stay away from their business - it's not any of mine business. That being said, I feel like some of it is my business as well, but you're right, I should respect them more given how much respect I expect from them.

Its about respecting yourself first. Its also about stepping away from the/their drama.

Relax guy, stay flexible because life will make you consider adjustments, to the best laid plans.