I think we can all agree this is a touchy subject.

I don't want to get into a debate with people that I respect and admire. Scott, KC, others.

Like I said, I see both sides.

I really don't think we have enough info either way to make a decision. Also, the OP doesn't seem to care what we think.

I say we call it quits, shake hands, grab a donut and coffee and move on.

But that's just me. ;)

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

No because #2 refers to a different form of the word.

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Even if that's the case, its part of the english language. "Using Alcohol" can be interpreted in many ways but nevertheless it does mean what I meant regardless. The english words say so. It might not be what you see it as, but they have individual definitions and we abide to those definitions so everybody can understand each other. Its like saying you can pick any word and attach any meaning to that word but no one will know what you're talking about.

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Originally Posted by itried

And you will never, ever will be in a position to see or experience anything that will allow you to even consider reversing your opinion because you're closing your mind off by basing your beliefs on other people's thoughts/experiences. You're just mechanically repeating what you've "heard" and passing it off as a legitimate response. The problem with that is you have no credibility.

Nothing beats first-hand knowledge/experience. I'll take Neil Armstrong's description of the moon over some guy who owns a telescope any day. Only because he's been there.

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First, you obviously don't know me very well. I am the least close minded person you may ever meet. Your example shows how wrong you are. I too would take Neil Armstrong's description over someone with a telescope. Since you also have no idea what I have read or who I have spoken to, you have no idea how authoritative my sources are. Finally, I am not passing off anything as a legitimate response. I have make sure to make it clear that these are my opinions formed my my experiences. This leaves the reader to decide for themselves what weight to put on what I post.

As to my credibility, I stand on my record on this site. I believe that I have established a rather high level of credibility.

Ok guys, let's all calm down here. We can agree to disagree. We all have different views on things here, we are all well respected by each other(at least on my end, I hold you all in the deepest respect category I have) and we aren't always going to agree on subjects. Scott, along with everyone else is entitled to their opinion. I see his side, while also seeing the other side. If she has a drinking problem, she needs help, but I can't say for sure she does have a drinking problem. I know she does have a problem with infidelity which is evident.

The drunk/rape sex is a touchy subject because it's all up to interpretation in which a jury would have to be used to decide. If she wasn't aware of what's going on, then it's rape. But if she uses the drunk excuse because she doesn't want to lose him, then it's not rape.

Okay. I think the voice of reason has to step in, and I find it highly amusing that it's me.

If you all want to talk about alcoholism, I suggest a new thread.

This thread has gone into the crapper and I think it's time to call it quits.

The OP hasn't been back for a while, he doesn't want an answer, he's just looking for someone to agree with him.

I think it's time for everyone to breath and realize that our opinions aren't the same, but it's okay to disagree. No one is going to change anyone's mind about their beliefs. So, let's all back off, go to the humor and comedy section, have a laugh and leave this alone.

It's done. Again, I'm surprised I'm the one that sees it, because I'm usually the first one to put up my fists and fight, but I respect everyone and their opinions and I don't want to see his get out of control.

Of course you don't have to listen, but please think about it.

Me, I'm unsubscribing to this thread.

Good luck all.

Yeah in his state of mind he is going to continue making excuses for her until he gets to the point he doesn't want to put up with it any more.

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Originally Posted by itried

You just said again that your opinion is based on your experiences, of which you only have the one time being drunk...

But drinking and alcoholism after only being drunk once in your life? No way! And this opinion is not just mine, but also echoes most of the people on this thread. I don't have to know you at all to make this claim. I can't and won't speak on any subject authoritatively (as you have) without at least knowing it's inner workings. I understand that you have strong feelings based on what you've heard and read. Still, it means nothing because you haven't lived it. These aren't cold, hard facts we're discussing here that can be backed up by anecdotal and second-hand experience. Instead, these are subjective experiences and responses to the experiences you would have to live through in order for yourself to gain that credibility. I haven't given birth to a child and I never will be able to, so I would never so callously open my mouth to a woman and judge her experiences and try to relate to them at all.

It's not a personal attack directed towards you or what you think. You're just painting yourself into a corner.

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Let me clarify, when I said experience in that previous post, I was not only referring to personal experience. I was also referring to my experiences with people I know who were alcoholics. And my experiences dealing with people who are authoritative on the subject.

And I disagree that one has to personally experience something to be able to opine on the subject. You may decide that my limited personal experience negates my opinion and that is your right. But I know many people who can and do speak authoritatively on subjects that they do not have personal experience on. Its very possible to do.

I have to agree I never got high and have only been drunk twice in my life but I have been through the whole spectrum of my alcoholic drug addict friends sagas and I can all too well agree 100% with what Scott said. You do not have to personally have been through something to know what it is like. You may not understand the full impact of emotions but you do know enough to understand it.

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Just two days ago, she cheated on me for the third time, but before passing judgment, please read ahead. The first time was like two days after us officially dating, and she was stone drunk. The second time, was 6 months after us going out, and she was with her friends, again stone drunk, but her other "friends" (who are females) wandered off, and left her with another guy (who was sober). Then just recently she was with those same friends, and yes, unfortunately stone drunk, and ended up involuntarily cheating. I know alcohol is not a good excuse, and she actually isn't trying to use it as one

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She gets drunk, and cheats. Those are the facts as he sees them. Whether it intentional, or an excuse its bad behavior. Its causes problems.

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Originally Posted by talaniman https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/amhd_i...s/viewpost.gif
Alcoholic- One who drinks, and it causes problems in his/her life. Doesn't matter how much, or how little.

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And it would seem that the OP's girlfriend fits that description, but is it really the alcohol?

I'm still not buying it.

This just feels like something so much deeper then mere alcohol.

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I agree, as its been my own experience as a sponsor, that the drinking is but a symptom of a deeper problem that has to be addressed. But only by dealing with what they acknowledge as a problem can they get to the root causes of the problem.

For sure we can call anyone anything you want, but unless someone sees drinking as a problem in there life, and wants to make a change, they will not get help or change.

The OP doesn't know how to help, and accepts the bad behavior, and I hope he protects himself, and gets some help himself, as its possible with out addressing the root cause of the problem, she will repeat the pattern of drinking, and cheating. That's why he needs to know the facts (Alanon), so he can help her, and protect himself.

As a side note, the first thing many people do during early recovery, is tell others that they can't drink.

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Originally Posted by itried

Buddy, the reputations you and I or anyone for that matter have on this site mean absolutely nothing in relation to the topic because what we post here is not subject to any formal criteria. .

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Then why attack someone for their opinion, which you seem to knock often? Just stick with your own, and let others have theirs. We don't have to agree.

If she doesn't want help, then there isn't much anyone can do for her. Here are the facts as I see it:
1. She thinks better when she is sober.
2. When she is sober, she wants to break up with her fiancée.
3. When she drinks, she has sex with other men.
I really don't think this woman wants to be anyone's fiancée.
We don't really know if these two met when she was stoned drunk.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

But I don't think anyone drinks for the specific purpose of getting drunk, unless they are an alcoholic.

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This was what I was referring to earlier, your opinion is respected but I find that this comment is painful, but that is my personal experience with the matter.

I do drink with the intention of getting drunk, not for the taste and just a buzz, but that is me personally. I was just offended that the correlation had to mean that I am an alcoholic.

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Originally Posted by Justwantfair

This was what I was referring to earlier, your opinion is respected but I find that this comment is painful, but that is my personal experience with the matter.

I do drink with the intention of getting drunk, not for the taste and just a buzz, but that is me personally. I was just offended that the correlation had to mean that I am an alcoholic.

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OK, I can see where you are coming from. I respect you enough to accept that I could be wrong about that. In my opinion the aftermath of getting drunk (deadaches, nausea, etc) would seem to negate any advantages of doing so, But there maybe something I'm missing here, so I'll accept your statement.