33% tax on campaign contributions!! Who's on board ?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
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33% tax on campaign contributions!! Who's on board ?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
You would be outraged at the fact that Sarah Palin has a PAC and she has no power whatsoever to effect any change at all. She's even spend PAC money to buy her own books. Isn't it a bit irresponsible to be using that much of other people's money for her own benefit with so many people out of work? How much moose meat could that buy?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
I'm in.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I'll forgo the tax if we can just get rid of the anonymity. How about public financing?? That'll fix it... Any of those sound good to you?? Nahhh.
Exco
Tom there is a big difference in shared sacrifice, and expecting the rich to balance the budget. No one is doing that, but they can help the whole country with SOMETHING, don't you think? They have no payroll tax, unlike most of us, even though we get money back AFTER the Government has used it. Cool, keeps things flowing, CIRCULATION helps us all.
Now corporations take there loot to the bank, and have an army of accountants and lawyers, and lobbyist to handle their finances for them, and pay less taxes than they ever have in the history of the world. Even if loopholes are closed they still have bookoo bucks safely tucked away in off country havens, trust funds and investments overseas, and jobs Americans use to do.
Still, they could sure pay their fair share since they sure as hell ain't circulating NO money, investing NO money, creating NO jobs, so those corporate fat cats you worship ain't doing NO work to put us back on a working path. Sure keep talking about spending, but if NOBODY spends, there is NO circulation, NO demand, NO jobs, NOTHING.
The government is "We the people", not Exxon, GE, Shell. BP, Citi Corp, or Wells Fargo. The Government didn't screw the world economy, or rip off ordinary people, but "we the people" saved their bacon! So the least they can do is bail "us" out.
And when the repubs, and conservatives stop hollering shrink the government, cut spending, lower taxes, TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK, (thats what they say during good times and bad), then we can handle our real business, and that's a jobs bill! Should have had one already, oh that's right, repubs said NO, "we are broke, we can't afford it".
JOBS< JOBS< and more JOBS, the rest is just a smoke screen, gimme a job, and we can pay bills and buy stuff, and CIRCULATE some money.
Rich people use to do that you know.
Allow me to knock that straw man down, Palin is irrelevant to this discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
LOL! That's what you say to anything you don't want to hear.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Just speaking the truth. I'll put my record on that up against yours any day.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Record of what? Fantasy football?
I'd put my record of speaking the truth up against yours any day... and I'd put my fantasy sports record up against anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Nope . I'll decide who's campaign I support . I don't want a penny of my money going to Schumer's reelection.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
The rich finance the Federal government with their income taxes now .The poor don't .So yes there is a big difference in the "shared sacrifice".Quote:
Tom there is a big difference in shared sacrifice, and expecting the rich to balance the budget.
And they wouldn't if the tax system was overhauled. I am not into the 'create work for accountants business'. If I had my way there would be no need for the bloated IRS .Quote:
Now corporations take there loot to the bank, and have an army of accountants and lawyers, and lobbyist to handle their finances for them, and pay less taxes than they ever have in the history of the world.
LOL, expecting the same thing from a poor guy as you do a rich guy! The rich finance there own pockets and life, and show me a rich guy that has a payroll deduction. Middle class working people are the ones who have payroll taxes deducted, of which the number is rapidly shrinking. It's the middle class that buys stuff from all over the world that makes the rich rich, of which they are shrinking so its less demand.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Come on, Warren Buffet is not god, so why do you worship him so? Oh wait, Tom are you one of those filthy rich?? That's the only explanation I can think of! Confess!!
I agree with tax code overhaul, or reform, but downsizing "we the people", and being at the mercy of Wall Street, the banks, and corporations, NO WAY!!Quote:
And they wouldn't if the tax system was overhauled. I am not into the 'create work for accountants business'. If I had my way there would be no need for the bloated IRS
You love and trust them, I DON'T!!
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Not so. The poor pay federal gasoline taxes... They pay federal telephone taxes... They pay federal UNEMPLOYMENT taxes... They pay federal internet taxes. They pay federal Social Security Taxes. They pay federal FICA taxes...
If that's not enough taxes to satisfy you about "shared" sacrifice, they also pay state property taxes, and city and county sales taxes. And, because I'm not really up on ALL the taxes we pay, I'll bet there are DOZENS more taxes they pay.
More importantly, I wonder WHY a regular working stiff constantly supports rich people who's policies don't support YOU?
excon
I don't know about you, but no FUTA taxes are withheld from my check, FICA taxes ARE Social Security and they pay none of either if they don't work.
Hello again, Steve:
I got your point... Here's mine... Even the dude who is begging on the freeway ramp PAYS TAXES. Yes, I know... It's NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU...
Here's another point, it doesn't make me like you any better knowing that you're MORE concerned with a RICH SOB, than the guy begging on the corner.
excon
LOL, that rich guy just laid off your daddy, and hired Akbar in India, then he brings his crap back here for you to buy. And you guys just love 'em. Keep bending over.He laughs all the way to the bank at your loyalty.
That's why they sent the letter to congress to get 'er done. They already know you will pay their taxes for them, no matter what the rates are, or the loopholes.
I guess you are a rich guy like Tom is, and how come conservatives are so rich??
You make it sound like the rich get off without paying these non-income taxes. The truth however is quite different . I made it clear in the comment above that it was income taxes I was talking of... and of course ,it's the income tax that is the largest single source of Federal Revenues .Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Ex, I asked you twice yesterday to be honest about me instead of making sh*t up. I don't make stuff about you, don't make stuff up about me, cool? I stated my position yesterday:Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
That single mom, raising 2 kids and working her a$$ off for not a lot of anything, I have no problem with her getting 100 percent of her withholding back. That deadbeat not even trying, yeah he needs to contribute to society, not suck the life out of it.
I have often said here government needs to provide a safety net for those who truly need help, and I have given plenty over the years to help those less fortunate. I'm sure you've even read my pleas for others to consider sponsoring a child instead of buying their spouse a Christmas present they don't need. I'm not one bit ashamed of positions on the poor or my personal contributions along that line so find a new line of attack.
Whatever wealth I have has nothing to do with money.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Copy that! Takes a village whether its your kid or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
From each according to their ability to each according to their needs ?
;) Are we agreeing, or are you pulling my leg?? :confused::eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Does that sum up your position ?
How about this ?Capitalist production, therefore, develops technology, and the combining together of various processes into a social whole, only by sapping the original sources of all wealth -- the soil and the labourer.
Naw, I prefer shared prosperity, through shared effort, for the good of all.
Left up to me, I would burn the money, and trade on need. Yeah I'm out there, but it works so well for the ANTS. I guess humans ain't as smart.
All the ants I see are just following each other around foraging their little butts off for the queen. Is that what you mean?
That's how they keep making and raising more ants, but my point is they all work for the common good. You mean you can't get with humans working for the common good?
Not really, my primary responsibility is to take care of my family and your idea of the "common good" probably differs from mine.
Common good... sounds like something out of the French
Revolution. The problem with the concept of the common good is that it is often used to subjugate the individual. Those who speak it loudest are good for telling others what their shared sacrifice should be.
Working for the common good, what a quaint notion in a land where averice and greed reign supreme. Have you suddenly become communist?
Marxist maybe... I find it's the statists who usually shout common good the loudest.
You left out the concept of "We the people", the principle of how this country was built. Not Corporations or banks but all of us who have a right to vote, and negotiate our own destiny.
Not the few dictating to the many. Is that Marxist? Communist? Or any other ism you choose that you think connotes a back handed put down?? Funny how the very people you choose to worship, and protect, the very rich, have written a letter to the congress telling them to cut a deal, NOW.
But of course the low information right wing says my way, or no way still. That's why informed repubs in Wisconsin voted with democrats against fake democrats. Oops wrong thread, SORRY!
It's sad you fail to recognise that we the people has echoed in so many places each time taking a different form until you have diametrically opposed philosophies saying much the same thing. When the French broke the shackles of royalty they suddenly discovered tyranny not in those they killed but among the "people" The two move hand in glove for the people, the mob, always rule by tyranny.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
So spare us the lofty ideals and recognise that today the decisions are made by a few and they are not always for the common good but to serve the political machine
So what are you saying? We should give up the idea that we elect people to serve the interest of the people, and get the ones who don't out. Or we should just go along with the program, and do nothing?
If it starts with we the people, we the people have a responsibility to be informed, and active in exercising our rights. What's your solution oh great Canada?
No we have to realise that those who are elected don't serve the people but they are beholding to the machine. It is the machine who organised the supporters, raised the funds and pushed the candidate because at the end of the day, if your candidate isn't elected you have no say in what is done. By all means remove those who obviously neglect the will of those who elected them, but also realise that even if you didn't approve of all of the platform, it will go forward anyway. In a situation where there is little between one candidate and another you can be sure that half the people oppose anything that is done so the will of the people is subject to the whim of the voter. I don't come from Canada but I do come from a place where democracy is strong but needs constant protection from those who are ruled by ideology.
Sorry Clete, my mistake as to your background, but you are right, in my opinion, you have to be on guard against idealogs. Now those we have a lot of here, both left, and right, but we still have to handle our business the best way we can. Hopefully the people with enough sense will try to do the right things.
Yes Tal and the right thing usually is to let government govern and not be too obstructive. You have a difficult system over there, I don't know how you manage to get anything done. Ours is modelled on yours but without some the obstructiveness. Like you we can get a hostile Senate but it really isn't possible to have a hostile House, when that happens everything changes or it goes back to the votersQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
The founders wrote into the Constitution limited and defined enumerated powers granted to the Federal Government in Art 1 Sec.8 .
They always intended to limit the impact of the Federal Government.
The problem has been in the interpretation of clauses like the 'Commerce Clause' and the 'Necessary and Proper Clause' in Article 1 .
Early in the history of the country there was a political split between those who believed like Hamilton that those clauses gave the Federal government broad powers over commerce and taxation ;and those of the Jefferson camp who believed those clauses should have very narrow interpretation.
What is being played out in this discussion is the continuation of that debate unresolved .We have seen the Hamiltonian interpretation of the role of the powerful central government bring us to the brink of financial crisis.
I'm pretty that was due to the government reducing their regulatory oversight of certain industries which allowed the corporations to bring on the meltdown due to their ruthless nature and greed of the owners.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Tal in our democracy we have seen certain clauses of our Consititution tested as to what powers it gives government. We were very surprised when we found the foreign treaties power actually gave the government the ability to prevent a state corporation building a dam to supply hydro power. Our states ceded the taxation power to the federal government in exchange for a guaranteed distribution, they have spent a long time arguing about the formula, but no one argues their absolute ability to control taxation. The commerce power enables our government to regulate trade practices which will soon manifest a world first, plain packaging for cigarettes.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Limited intrepretation works only so long as the people are satisfied but remember how quick they were to take away constitutional rights to ensure homeland security
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