Twink24,
I'm sure that you know that in most of this world a person can believe any any religion a person wants of and that includes not believing in any or anything.
So believe as you wish, but I do urge you to do some study of Christianity. There is much there for everyone.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

JudyKayTee,
Yes, before Jesus there was several ways to get forgiveness of sins.
The Old Testament tells us of them.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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So the Bible DOES say that before the birth of Christ a person would be condemned to Hell for a relatively small (?) sin, such as stealing a cookie?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Twink24

judykaytee, it seems as though you are constantly following my posts and its getting rather irritating, which is why i jump to you first seeing as you seem to be the most 'interested' in what i have to say. The 'pm' was asking why it was you wont leave ME alone. Like i said i wasnt AT ALL taught in the christian belief i suppose i shouldn't have said christian, because what I meant was i have not been a part of ANY religion and i truly don't know which religion it really is that i am referring to when I talk about what it is i believe in, i just know its a belief maybe not a christian one, but it is a belief. You may not agree with me, (which seems to be an ongoing thing) but you don't have to constantly study into a religion/belief to believe in it.

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All Catholics are Christians; not all Christians are Catholics.

In the same vein, all carrots are vegetables but not all vegetables are carrots.

I think before you begin to explain the Bible and Christianity maybe you should study a little bit so you don't sound quite as foolish.

So you don't know just which religion teaches that before the birth of Christ a person would go to Hell for stealing a cookie - but then Christ provided a means of forgiveness?

I may not agree with everything posted here but I have a great deal of respect for people who can explain their beliefs and their reasoning; I have trouble with "Well, I just believe and that's how it is," particularly when you clearly don't know the difference between Christians and Catholics.

I can understand that something unusual, that may have happened in antiquity, seems farfetched today as a part of a belief system. I'm still searching to have experience with the holy spirit. The path to the power that produced the miracles, I believe, lies in love, humility, knowledge, purity, and compassion. Yes, I believe god is all powerful, but I don't think his power is as relevant in miracles, as in his helping us to overcome that which takes away love, humility, knowledge,purity, compassion, and many other benefits. All these coming from the discipline of learning his way.

JudyKayTee,
Yes in Old Testament times a person could be destined for hell for stealing anything large or small just as one can have that happen today.
The difference is what happened in the birth death and life of Jesus Christ.
There were different ways of having ones sins forgiven in OT times than now.
But even so are sins of this age are nor forgiven unless for forgive others and that we are remorseful and ask for forgiveness.
Jesus clearly tells us that a person will not be forgiven unless he/she forgives others.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Judykaytee,
As I said. I WAS NOT taught about anything with religion, which is understandable because not Everyone is. And someone CAN just believe, without having to study it they can JUST believe.

Twink24,
I believe that is what I agreed with you about.
Everyone believes in something; probably in many things or they would not be able to accomplish much of anything.
Example, if a person did not believe in something simple like being able to eat they would starve.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

JudyKayTee,
Yes in Old Testament times a person could be destined for hell for stealing anything large or small just as one can have that happen today.
The difference is what happened in the birth death and life of Jesus Christ.
There were different ways of having ones sins forgiven in OT times than now.
But even so are sins of this age are nor forgiven unless for forgive others and that we are remorseful and ask for forgiveness.
Jesus clearly tells us that a person will not be forgiven unless he/she forgives others.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Can you give me a quote from the Bible? I find nothing about Hell in the Old Testament - but my Bible studies were a long time ago!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Can you give me a quote from the Bible? I find nothing about Hell in the Old Testament - but my Bible studies were a long time ago!

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You are correct. There is no hell in the Old Testament.

This is one of the favorite points made by noted atheist Christopher Hitchens, a point he's repeated in multiple debates on the subject, on TV interviews and one mentioned in his book, God is Not Great.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

Twink24,
I believe that is what I agreed with you about.
Everyone believes in something; probably in many things or they would not be able to accomplish much of anything.
Example, if a person did not believe in something simple like being able to eat they would starve.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Again - and I realize Twink agrees with you - but where is Hell mentioned in the Old Testament?

As far as the rest of this - doesn't answer my question. I don't see the connection between believing in something (being able to eat, based on fact) and believing in something concerning religion to be the same - but obviously that's just me.

Hell in the Old Testament was
Gehenna
Hades
Sheol

You are very fortunate because you've recognized you want to change your heart and life at a young age, when you can still turn things around and become the person you want to be. In my particular Christian faith, forgiveness is believed to be there for the asking but there also has to be true recognition that what was wrong was wrong, and a devoted effort to turn it around and act differently in the future. Forgiveness is central to most religions and all Christian faiths that I know of. You can ask God for forgiveness privately, but it can be very helpful to find the support of a faith community if you haven't already.

JudyKayTee,
You are sort of right. The word hell is not in the old Testament but the Hebrew word "sheol" is. Keep on mind that the New Testament was written in Greek. If it were written in Hebrew the word used would have been sheol or the pit which it also found in the bible.
There are a many mentions of sheol in the O.T.
Here's just one example of the deep DOWN burning place called sheol.
Deuteronomy 32: 20. "Then He said, `I will hide My face from them,
I will see what their end shall be;
For they are a perverse generation,
Sons in whom is no faithfulness.
21. `They have made Me jealous with what is not God;
They have provoked Me to anger with their idols.
So I will make them jealous with those who are not a people;
I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation,
22. For a fire is kindled in My anger,
And burns to the lowest part of Sheol,
And consumes the earth with its yield,
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

JudyKayTee,
You are sort of right. The word hell is not in the old Testament but the Hebrew word "sheol" is. Keep on mind that the New Testament was written in Greek. If it were written in Hebrew the word used would have been sheol or the pit which it also found in the bible.
There are a many mentions of sheol in the O.T.
Here's just one example of the deep DOWN burning place called sheol.
Deuteronomy 32: 20. "Then He said, `I will hide My face from them,
I will see what their end shall be;
For they are a perverse generation,
Sons in whom is no faithfulness.
21. `They have made Me jealous with what is not God;
They have provoked Me to anger with their idols.
So I will make them jealous with those who are not a people;
I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation,
22. For a fire is kindled in My anger,
And burns to the lowest part of Sheol,
And consumes the earth with its yield,
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Thank you, Fred, for posting this.

I thought that Jews do not believe in Hell, in eternal damnation - so now I am more confused.

I am going to ask this question on the Jewish religion board and hopefully someone there will know.

Just an aside... I don't think it's particularly helpful when discussing something as personal as faith to press people to the wall to provide documentation to shore up their expressed personal faith beliefs. The reality is that when it comes to faith, most of us are wrong. I don't know which of us are wrong, but with all the religions in the world and the millions of people served by each, if any one of those faith communities has it right, the rest are in error. Tolerance and openness and an understanding that none of us have all the answers - certainly none of us can PROVE that we have the answers to the satisfaction of others - well, it will help us get along.

JudyKayTee,
In the Jewish religion you will find several variation from those who do not believe in an after live to those who do and some in between.
Like all religions there are variations in belief and faith and practice.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

JudyKayTee,
In the Jewish religion you will find several variation from those who do not believe in an after live to those who do and some in between.
Like all religions there are variations in belief and faith and practice.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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I do not think the Jewish religion is alone in this. At any rate, I found this thread to be very enlightening: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/judais...on-385684.html

JudyKayTee,
Thanks.
Fred