All of them -- or how many? or just the ones who made the news?

There are a LOT of them... look sometime... its a status symbol in the 'hood. Same with certain brand jackets...

There are a LOT of them......look sometime....its a status symbol in the 'hood. Same with certain brand jackets...
Teen boys maybe, but not little kids or their moms..

Teen boys maybe, but not little kids or their moms..

Oh yeah it is.. even gradeschool... and with the moms it's the hairdo... and the nails...

Lots of money spent on personal self gratification now.. at the expense of long term needs.

I grew up fairly poor... I spent years doing without certain things so I could afford more important stuff... like Insurance... actualyl paying off my student loans... things like that.

I grew up fairly poor...I spent years doing without certain things so I could afford more important stuff ...like Insurance....actualyl paying off my student loans.....things like that.
I too grew up poor. It was only because we lived near farms and farmers who cared about us that we always had enough food to put on the table. And we had a vegetable garden too. Supper might be a pound of ground beef made into five patties (one for each of us), sliced tomatoes, homemade applesauce (we lived in NY apple country), corn on the cob from the field next door to our house, and homemade cupcakes. My talented mom made most of my clothes even into college and cooked/baked everything from scratch. A neighbor girl gave me her bike when she outgrew it. I got a scholarship for college, my parents cashed in stock that they had bought when they were first married, and I paid off the rest of my college tuition/R&B by working in the college neighborhood and at the college even during holidays and summer.

I've tried to always make my own kids work for what they want and not just hand it to them. I think I've succeeded and they appreciate what they have and take good care of things.

My husband and I were talking yesterday about how young people today, black and white both, don't seem to understand what to wear to a job interview and how to behave (like, you don't text your friends while you are talking with the interviewer). My husband wondered, isn't that common sense?

I too grew up poor. It was only because we lived near farms and farmers who cared about us that we always had enough food to put on the table. My talented mom made most of my clothes even into college and cooked/baked everything from scratch. A neighbor girl gave me her bike when she outgrew it. I got a scholarship for college, my parents cashed in stock that they had bought when they were first married, and I paid off the rest of my college tuition/R&B by working in the college neighborhood and at the college even during holidays and summer.

My husband and I were talking yesterday about how young people today, black and white both, don't seem to understand what to wear to a job interview and how to behave (like, you don't text your friends while you are talking with the interviewer). My husband wondered, isn't that common sense?

Exactly.. common sense apparently isn't common any more.

Most of my Jr. And Sr. High period was during the wonderful Carter Administration... both parents were working part time jobs to pay the mortgage.(father was laid off from his job).and put food on the table and clothe me and my brother... I remember going to the Salvation Army thrift store for stuff many times... the real unemployment rate was near 30% for that region at that time... Back when the Japanese were dumping steel at bleow cost that shut down the Steel mills and with them the coal mines and the places that supplied them which were a lions share of the jobs.

THere were men with families that worked in the mills all their lives and in their 40's and 50's bagging groceried at the supermarkets or pushing a broom... anything to make a few bucks to pay the bills... as a kid there were NO jobs because any job was saved for any adult with a family that needed it.

Yeah... we learned the difference between what you want... and what you need. It made the difference between surviving or not.

Hello again, tom:
IF Republicans acted like that, I'd BE one. But, they FOOL themselves into believing that crap..

Right wingers believe in HUGE, unbelievably LARGE government when it comes to things like COPS, and the DRUG WAR, and managing the HUGEST, LARGEST prison population in the world... They're happy with the BIG, HUGE NSA program that SNOOPS on every American in direct violation to the Constitution...

Oh, yeah... They LOVE spending LARGE, unbelievably MONSTROUS amounts of cash on our military... More than the next 16 countries COMBINED...

They just think the SOCIAL side of government is WAYYYYY tooo big, and shouldn't even exist.

In the final analysis, you AIN'T fooling nobody.

Excon

Well when you see me defending any of that except the large military ,of which I'll say right here and now I fully support... then you can lump me in with your false preconceptions about what the " right wingers " believe. As I recall it was the Dems who for years talked about wanting to put all those cops on the streets . In fact ,the Dems are happy to hire as many public sector employees as they can get away with . As I recall it was Dems who were integral in getting things like mandatory sentencing .You may not remember the aftermath of the Len Bias death but I do... so let me refresh your memory .
This is how PBS tells it :

In 1986, the Democrats in Congress saw a political opportunity to outflank Republicans by “getting tough on drugs” after basketball star Len Bias died of a cocaine overdose. In the 1984 election the Republicans had successfully accused Democrats of being soft on crime. The most important Democratic political leader, House Speaker “Tip” O’Neill, was from Boston, MA. The Boston Celtics had signed Bias. During the July 4 congressional recess, O’Neill’s constituents were so consumed with anger and dismay about Bias’ death, O’Neill realized how powerful an anti-drug campaign would be.

O’Neill knew that for Democrats to take credit for an anti-drug program in November elections, the bill had to get out of both Houses of Congress by early October. That required action on the House floor by early September, which meant that committees had to finish their work before the August recess. Since the idea was born in early July, the law-writing committees had less than a month to develop the ideas, to write the bills to carry out those ideas, and to get comments from the relevant government agencies and the public at large.

One idea was considered for the first time by the House Judiciary Committee four days before the recess began. It had tremendous political appeal as “tough on drugs.” This was the creation of mandatory minimum sentences in drug cases. It was a type of penalty that had been removed from federal law in 1970 after extensive and careful consideration. But in 1986, no hearings were held on this idea. No experts on the relevant issues, no judges, no one from the Bureau of Prisons, or from any other office in the government, provided advice on the idea before it was rushed through the committee and into law. Only a few comments were received on an informal basis. After bouncing back and forth between the Democratic controlled House and the Republican controlled Senate as each party jockeyed for poitical advantage, The Anti Drug Abuse Act of 1986 finally passed both houses a few weeks before the November elections.
Drug Laws And Snitching - A Primer | Snitch | FRONTLINE | PBS (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/snitch/primer/)
So you see... it was the Democrats being tough on crime that brought us mandatory sentencing and the largest prison population in the world. It is the Democrats that want all those cops because they think it is a better option to have all these cops on the public payroll instead of people having the right to exercise their 2nd amendment rights.

After bouncing back and forth between the Democratic controlled House and the Republican controlled Senate as each party jockeyed for poitical advantage, The Anti Drug Abuse Act of 1986 finally passed both houses a few weeks before the November elections.

Both parties did it, and the dems get the blame? Who was the president that signed it?

Not surprisingly it's come to this...


Obamacare installs new scrutiny, fines for charitable hospitals that treat uninsured people (http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/08/obamacare-installs-new-scrutiny-fines-for-charitable-hospitals-that-treat-uninsured-people/)

Charitable hospitals that treat uninsured Americans will be subjected to new levels of scrutiny of their nonprofit status and could face sizable new fines under Obamacare.

A new provision in Section 501 of the Internal Revenue Code, which takes effect under Obamacare, sets new standards of review and installs new financial penalties for tax-exempt charitable hospitals, which devote a minimum amount of their expenses to treat uninsured poor people. Approximately 60 percent of American hospitals are currently nonprofit.

Charity for the uninsured is one of the factors that could discourage enrollment in Obamacare, which requires all Americans to purchase health insurance or else face new taxes themselves from the IRS.

“It requires tax-exempt hospitals to do a community needs survey and file additional paperwork with the IRS every three years. This is to prove that the charitable hospital is still needed in their geographical area — ‘needed’ as defined by Obamacare and overseen by IRS bureaucrats,” said John Kartch, spokesman for Americans for Tax Reform.

“Failure to comply, or to prove this continuing need, could result in the loss of the hospital’s tax-exempt status. The hospital would then become a for-profit venture, paying income tax — hence the positive revenue score” for the federal government, Kartch said. “Obamacare advocates turned over every rock to find as much tax money as possible.”

Additionally, the rise in the number of insured Americans under Obamacare will make it more difficult for tax-exempt hospitals to continue meeting required thresholds for treating the uninsured, driving more hospitals into the for-profit category and yielding more taxable money for the federal government.

“The requirements generally apply to any section 501(c)(3) organization that operates at least one hospital facility,” according to a “Technical Explanation” report of new Obamacare provisions prepared by the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) on March 21, 2010, the day Obamacare passed.

Obamacare’s new requirements could slam hospitals with massive $50,000 fines if they fail to meet bureaucrats’ standards.

First of all according to my liberal friends here the poor and uninsured don't get health care. Turns out they do, and now those non-profit hospitals which provide such are going to get fined for taking care of sick people. You can't make this stuff up.

We can't have poor people being taken care of by anyone besides the government now can we? I just love liberals, they hammer on us about taking care of others then not only tie our hands but now penalize us for doing so.

I know, a hospital is not a church, blah, blah, blah (that was for you, Tut). Now I understand why the Baptist-Catholic alliance that owns the best hospital in our city is looking for a buyer, Obama intends to put them out of the ministry of healing the sick anyway.

Why is Obama waging war on the church?

Hello again,

Was I LYING (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/medical-conditions-diseases/crohns-disease-761884.html)to this girl? Is Obamacare going to HURT her?

excon

How noble to run from a fight and make more money which was her motives in the first place. But of course she could never admit such a thing. Not so sure about those ethnic laws of which you credit her with but she was in bed with big oil and was passing checks from them.

She made a lot of enemies for the least populated state of its size with a large welfare dependent population.

How about learning more and spewing ignorance less?

Barack Obama and his right hand man Pete Rouse hand picked a group of democrat thugs, including Phil Munger, Jeanne Devon, Shannyn Moore, Val Henning, Linda Beigel, and others. These hand picked thugs filed dozens of phony "ethics" complaints, and bombarded the Governor's office with FOIA requests.

All of this was right out of Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals"

Under Alaska law, no matter how ridiculous the "complaint" the state had to investigate. Obama's thugs cost the Alaskan people over $2 MILLION with this insanity. They also cost Palin $500,000 on a $125,000 a year salary. And NO, she wasn't allowed to start a legal defense fund, like every other politician would have been.

Governor Palin resigned because Obama's thugs were raping Alaska's treasury, and word had went out to democrat lawmakers to stop working with her.

Governor Palin only left office after all of the scheduled legislative sessions were over, and she had fulfilled every single campaign promise.

Had the Governor stayed in office, both she and her staff would have continued to have been the target of Obama's hatred, and his thugs' attacks. They would have cost the Alaskan people as much as $10 MILLION.

As it was, she left the state better than she found it, with a $15 BILLION budget surplus, and in the hands of her Lt Governor who kept her agenda moving forward.

Damn shame MORE politicians aren't this honorable!

Hello again,

Was I LYING (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/medical-conditions-diseases/crohns-disease-761884.html)to this girl? Is Obamacare gonna HURT her?

excon

Look, something shiny!

Hello again, Steve:

Look, something shiny!If a sick person getting affordable health insurance BECAUSE of Obamacare, ISN'T at the heart of this issue, then we live on two different planets.

Excon

well when you see me defending any of that except the large military ,of which I'll say right here and now I fully support....
it is a better option to have all these cops on the public payroll instead of people having the right to exercise their 2nd amendment rights.

Are you sane! Two preposterous ideas in one and you say you are not a republican. No one could believe that the democrats believe the second one it is because people are exercising their second amendment "rights" that you need the cops. The government has a responsibility to protect the people. Do you think that by spending a third of the world military budget you are protecting the people, protecting them from whom, why don't you protect all those young men by bringing them home and giving them something useful to do, Use this military force to protect the people.

How about learning more and spewing ignorance less?

Barack Obama and his right hand man Pete Rouse hand picked a group of democrat thugs, including Phil Munger, Jeanne Devon, Shannyn Moore, Val Henning, Linda Beigel, and others. These hand picked thugs filed dozens of phony "ethics" complaints, and bombarded the Governor's office with FOIA requests.

All of this was right out of Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals"

Under Alaska law, no matter how ridiculous the "complaint" the state had to investigate. Obama's thugs cost the Alaskan people over $2 MILLION with this insanity. They also cost Palin $500,000 on a $125,000 a year salary. And NO, she wasn't allowed to start a legal defense fund, like every other politician would have been.

Governor Palin resigned because Obama's thugs were raping Alaska's treasury, and word had went out to democrat lawmakers to stop working with her.

Governor Palin only left office after all of the scheduled legislative sessions were over, and she had fulfilled every single campaign promise.

Had the Governor stayed in office, both she and her staff would have continued to have been the target of Obama's hatred, and his thugs' attacks. They would have cost the Alaskan people as much as $10 MILLION.

As it was, she left the state better than she found it, with a $15 BILLION budget surplus, and in the hands of her Lt Governor who kept her agenda moving forward.

Damn shame MORE politicians aren't this honorable!

Hello new winger, got links for any of that crap YOU just spewed?

Tal ,it's all over the web. Look for something besides your typical left wing zombie sites. What part do you want a link for ? It's all fact. And the emperor rewarded Pete Rouse with Interim Chief of Staff after Rahmbo Emanuel announced he was leaving the administration to run for Mayor of Chi town Rouse became Chief of Staff for a while... now he is Councilor to the emperor . Rouse is also an Alaskan and is close with some of the key players in the trumped up "Troopergate" witch-hunt . Palin of course was cleared of any wrong doing in that or any other ethics investigation leveled against her. Pete Rouse created the "Wasilla Project" a group of hate filled idiots whose mission was to do anything and everything to harass Palin.
Rouse and his goons filed one phony charge after another Palin and it's quite correct that she spent a fortune to defend herself before she resigned. You must be proud of the Alinsky tactics employed . But what really pisses your type off is that she isn't going away.

Hello again, tom:

But what really pisses your type off is that she isn't going away.Nahhhh.. I LOVE having Sarah Palin around.. She makes it easy.

Excon

Alaska budget hole is $1.65 billion | Legislature | ADN.com (http://www.adn.com/2009/02/03/678110/alaska-budget-hole-is-165-billion.html)

Spending rose in Palin's Alaska administrations - USATODAY.com (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-10-23-palinspending_N.htm)


But Palin didn't cut the size of government as mayor of Wasilla, and she hasn't done so as Alaska's governor, city and state budget records show. Spending in fast-growing Wasilla increased by 55% during her tenure from 1996-2002, records show. In nearly two years as governor, she has presided over a 31% spending hike by a state government that sought earmarks from Washington even as it reaped billions from higher oil prices and Palin-backed tax increases on oil companies.

Alaska has energy and low population, and it a taker state which mean that it gets more from the fed than it gives. I won't bother you with facts about her money managing while mayor of Wassila, her first job, but she left because Alaska was getting HOT, and she couldn't stand the heat, which might have been smart, but she can shove that mama grizzly crap up her bazoo, if you guys would move your heads out of the way.

When the going gets tough, the tough don't quit. She is a quitter. I wish she would run for something, but then gain you guys where so excited when you thought she was going to run in 2012. Nice bus though.

Hello again, Steve:
If a sick person getting affordable health insurance BECAUSE of Obamacare, ISN'T at the heart of this issue, then we live on two different planets.

excon

The question was why is Obama waging a war on the church? Since when in this country do we penalize someone for being charitable?

Look, something shiny!
Hello again, Steve:

It's IS true, that sick people ARE the shiny objects that this conversation is ABOUT.

First off, HOW, in the world, is this (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/medical-conditions-diseases/crohns-disease-761884.html)sick person NOT what this thread is about? Secondarily, you didn't answer my question about whether Obamacare is going to HELP her...

That's because it IS, and you can't refute it.. And, if you don't answer, I'll ask again, and again, and then again.

Excon

Hello again, Steve:

It's IS true, that sick people ARE the shiny objects that this conversation is ABOUT.

First off, HOW, in the world, is this (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/medical-conditions-diseases/crohns-disease-761884.html)sick person NOT what this thread is about? Secondarily, you didn't answer my question about whether Obamacare is gonna HELP her...

That's because it IS, and you can't refute it.. And, if you don't answer, I'll ask again, and again, and then again.

excon


Now that you mention it there are people who post here seeking medical advice. Does anyone manage to get free medical attention and free medication if they don't have insurance and don't have any money?

Hello T:

Does anyone manage to get free medical attention and free medication if they don't have insurance and don't have any money?Not in the USA. If we did, then we wouldn't NEED Obamacare.. But, WITHOUT insurance, I'm afraid THIS girl (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/medical-conditions-diseases/crohns-disease-761884.html) would DIE.

Excon

“The requirements generally apply to any section 501(c)(3) organization that operates at least one hospital facility,”

This was explained to you in detail if you cared to read the Steve Brill article in Time magazine about not for profit hospitals making money hand over fist with a mark up system often 10,000 times over the costs from aspirin to surgery gowns.

Let me ask you then why you think the church run hospitals are exempt from the standards that hospitals everywhere have to comply with, and document the charity work they do. If they are doing all the charity work they and you claim, what's the problem?

If not, why are they exempt? Its simple Speech you cannot be a charity and have a few charity cases and then make big profits off insurance work. I know some churches already actively seek out people to help and should be commended for it, but a few do not yet reap the benefit of huge profits and no taxes.

To exes question about the poor girl with Crohns Disease getting care under Obama Care it depends what state she is in because as you know Republican governors are opting out of the Medicaid expansion, and yes Texas is one so I hope she isn't one of those millions that will fall between the cracks.

Hello T:
Not in the USA. If we did, then we wouldn't NEED Obamacare.. But, WITHOUT insurance, I'm afraid THIS girl (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/medical-conditions-diseases/crohns-disease-761884.html) would DIE.

excon

What world are you living in when its law they can receive treatment ?

Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act)



Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor ActEMTALA), passed in 1986 at the request of President Ronald Reagan.

Hello again, tal:

as you know Republican governors are opting out of the Medicaid expansion, and yes Texas is one so I hope she isn't one of those millions that will fall between the cracks. THIS is one of the areas where Obama COULD have explained it better... There is STILL major MISUNDERSTANDING about this... From what I understand, and I'm as ignorant about the law as anybody, Texas, along with other right wing states, refused to set up STATE exchanges where their residents could buy health insurance... BUT, the FEDS have exchanges that aren't as good, but STILL offer the benefits of Obamacare to EVERYBODY... Everybody, no matter where you live, will benefit from Obamacare..

Now, I could be wrong.. I was wrong once last year..

Excon

Here's the rub ex, sure the feds will set up exchanges and Texas has many options in that regard that's true, but Medicaid expansion is a different animal that only deals with the poor who are covered under Medicaid. Typically that's define as a percentage of income over the poverty level,

This link can explain it better than I could,

States forgo billions in federal cash by opting out of Medicaid expansion - Jul. 1, 2013 (http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/01/news/economy/medicaid-expansion-states/index.html)


What happens to impoverished citizens in states that don't expand? The most likely answer is that they'll slip through the cracks and remain without health insurance.

Some of these folks will be eligible for subsidies to buy individual health insurance on state-based exchanges. But those with income below the poverty line cannot receive subsidies, because the Affordable Care Act intended for them to be covered through Medicaid. If their state opts out, they're stranded. (They also will not be subject to financial penalties for not having insurance. Those penalties begin at $95 per adult in 2014 and increase in later years.)

As it stands now, an estimated 11.5 million uninsured, non-elderly, poor adults live in states that have opted out, according to research from the Urban Institute.

State officials can change their mind and join the Medicaid expansion in the future. But next year, many poor Americans will not be able to participate in Obamacare. "They are giving up significant federal funding and the chance to cover their neediest citizens," said Kathy Gifford, managing principal at Health Management Associates, a research and consulting firm.

Factor out the LEFT wing spin, and it's a lot of poor people will get screwed, some will die.

Hello again, Steve:

It's IS true, that sick people ARE the shiny objects that this conversation is ABOUT.

First off, HOW, in the world, is this (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/medical-conditions-diseases/crohns-disease-761884.html)sick person NOT what this thread is about? Secondarily, you didn't answer my question about whether Obamacare is gonna HELP her...

That's because it IS, and you can't refute it.. And, if you don't answer, I'll ask again, and again, and then again.

excon

There has never been a day that I or any conservative I can think of has ever said our health care system was perfect or that people like her don't deserve care so on that we agree and you know that. We just disagree on the solution and thus far Zerocare is proving to be a train wreck. If you deny that after all we've shown by the facts and former supporters, including a principal architect, you aren't being honest. Not only that as shown Obama himself is perpetuating a two-tier system, one for the rulers and one for the rest of us unwashed.

Now, you answer my question. Why is Obama waging a war on the church and since when do we penalize people for being charitable, the exact kind of thing your example could use right now.

What world are you living in when its law they can recieve treatment ?

Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act)



Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor ActEMTALA), passed in 1986 at the request of President Ronald Reagan.

They've always denied this fact, everyone gets health care if they seek it.

That doesn't even apply to long term care just the bare bones minimum emergency care. The girl with Crohns is a good example of a poor person with no insurance who can't get treatment. Emergency rooms will stabilize her and send her elsewhere, or discharge her out right.

What you think a charity or church will pay for her treatments? SHOW ME. Better yet go to the post and explain to her to go to the emergency room. Guess you didn't notice her issue is with her MEDS.

That doesn't even apply to long term care just the bare bones minimum emergency care. The girl with Crohns is a good example of a poor person with no insurance who can't get treatment. Emergency rooms will stabilize her and send her elsewhere, or discharge her out right.

What you think a charity or church will pay for her treatments? SHOW ME. Better yet go to the post and explain to her to go to the emergency room. Guess you didn't notice her issue is with her MEDS.

They get care in my city, I don't know why they can't where you are.

They get care in my city, I don't know why they can't where you are.

Maybe the city where they live is run by democritics.

Doesn't matter what the city or the politics are most emergency rooms stabilize and won't admit people with no insurance. In Texas they transport you to a county hospital if they can. And you need a physician to admit you. No doctor, no insurance, no admittance except in a county hospital, in Texas. Its part of the triage and obviously you have never been to an emergency room and didn't have insurance.

Stop ignoring the holes in the law by pretending problems like this don't exist.

Doesn't matter what the city or the politics are most emergency rooms stabilize and won't admit people with no insurance. In Texas they transport you to a county hospital if they can. And you need a physician to admit you. No doctor, no insurance, no admittance except in a county hospital, in Texas. Its part of the triage and obviously you have never been to an emergency room and didn't have insurance.

Stop ignoring the holes in the law by pretending problems like this don't exist.

You really don't want to go there. I'm more familiar with penniless, uninsured people getting health care than I care to remember.

Hello again, Steve:

You really don't want to go there. I'm more familiar with penniless, uninsured people getting health care than I care to remember.I'm not familiar with your personal story, but are you saying there ARE people in this country who are denied health care? That's not a right wing position. Right wingers think EVERYBODY gets all the health care they need. Is that NOT true?

Excon

You really don't want to go there. I'm more familiar with penniless, uninsured people getting health care than I care to remember.

Firstly. You are obviously a very generous and caring person.

Secondly. Going on your example the blight seems to be that there are so many.

But I bet allthese people with no health care... have cell phones.. computers... TV. DVD player... most have game boxes... and most even have more than one car. Nearly all could afford insurance if they gave up some of the dumb things they want so they can afford to buy what they need.

I gave up a LOT of stuff I wanted over the 32 years I've been out of college because I put Medical insurance at the front of the list with rent... car insurance... student loan payments etc...

But I bet allthese people with no health care...have cell phones..computers...TV. DVD player...most have game boxes....and most even have more than one car. Nearly all could afford insurance if they gave up some of the dumb things they want so they can afford to buy what they need.

I've got a good idea. Perhaps they can sell all of these things and by some health care they may never need.

I've got a good idea. Perhaps they can sell all of these things and by some health care they never need.

Then they shouldn't be getting it free... at all. Because that's how insurance works... you don't wait until after you have a car accident to buy auto insurance... how many people are paying for auto insurance for accidendts they never have?

But I bet allthese people with no health care...have cell phones..computers...TV. DVD player...most have game boxes....and most even have more than one car. Nearly all could afford insurance if they gave up some of the dumb things they want so they can afford to buy what they need.

I gave up a LOT of stuff I wanted over teh 32 years I've been out of college because I put Medical insurance at the front of the list with rent...car insurance...student loan payments etc....

You mean the working poor who work two job to be POOR?

Then they shouldn't be getting it free......at all. Because thats how insurance works....you don't wait until after you have a car accident to buy auto insurance.....how many people are paying for auto insurance for accidendts they never have?

I am assuming by, "it" you mean health care. If this is what you are saying then you don't buy auto insurance, you take the chance of not having an accident. If this is what you are saying then I agree. Best that the poor don't own a car and it is also best if they are uninsured in terms of health care.

Yes, it all sounds fairly simple to me.

Hello again, Steve:
I'm not familiar with your personal story, but are you saying there ARE people in this country who are denied health care? That's not a right wing position. Right wingers think EVERYBODY gets all the health care they need. Is that NOT true?

excon

No I'm not saying that at all and you know part of my story. I've witnessed firsthand one of the most precious people in my life get first class care with no money and no insurance... and she still is.

You mean the working poor who work two job to be POOR?

Then they get a third job then... if they got 8 kids they couldn't afford... thats their problem... not mine. Maybe she gets a job other than popping out one kid after another.

Then they get a third job then...if they got 8 kids they couldn't afford...thats their problem...not mine. Maybe she gets a job other than popping out one kid after another.

Who exactly is "she" in your second sentence?

Who exactly is "she" in your second sentence?

The stay at home mom without a paying job.

The stay at home mom without a paying job.

If "they" get a third job then "she" can't be a stay at home mum without a job.

Meanwhile, back to the OP. The emperor has delayed yet another feature (http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/08/13/yet-another-white-house-obamacare-delay-out-of-pocket-caps-waived-until-2015/) of Obamacare, the oh so important feature of capping out of pocket expenses.


First, there was the delay of Obamacare’s Medicare cuts until after the election. Then there was the delay of the law’s employer mandate. Then there was the announcement, buried in the Federal Register, that the administration would delay enforcement of a number of key eligibility requirements for the law’s health insurance subsidies, relying on the “honor system” instead. Now comes word that another costly provision of the health law—its caps on out-of-pocket insurance costs—will be delayed for one more year.

According to the Congressional Research Service, as of November 2011, the Obama administration had missed as many as one-third of the deadlines, specified by law, under the Affordable Care Act. Here are the details on the latest one.

Obamacare contains a blizzard of mandates and regulations that will make health insurance more costly. One of the most significant is its caps on out-of-pocket insurance costs, such as co-pays and deductibles. Section 2707(b) of the Public Health Service Act, as added by Obamacare, requires that “a group health plan and a health insurance issuer offering group or individual health insurance coverage may not establish lifetime limits on the dollar value of benefits for the any participant or beneficiary.” Annual limits on cost-sharing are specified by Section 1302(c) of the Affordable Care Act; in addition, starting in 2014, deductibles are limited to $2,000 per year for individual plans, and $4,000 per year for family plans.

I thought Obamacare was supposed to bail us out...

Hello again, Steve:

If, like you, I believed that, in this great country of ours, nobody has ever gone without being treated for their ills, or ever would be, then I'd be squealing just like you are.

But, I don't believe that.

excon

I keep posting things like this hoping some day certain among us might see the parallels between their rants and the administration they defend.

Hello again, Steve:

Ok, what's YOUR plan? If it's to go back to what we had, as flawed as Obamacare is, it's BETTER than that.

excon

Scrap it all and start over.

Hello again, Steve:

Scrap it all and start over.
If we did, would you STILL say that we don't need it because, in THIS great land, EVERYBODY gets treated? And, if you WOULD say that, then once it's scrapped, the "start over" crap you're spewing, isn't something you intend to do, is it?

Excon

No it would not be feasible or advisable to scrap it all. But your question has been answered many times.

Hello again, Steve:
No it would not be feasible or advisable to scrap it all.
What would you keep, and how would you pay for it?

Excon

I'd keep it private.

Hello again, Steve:

I'd keep it private.In other words what we had PRE Obamacare, and you wouldn't keep ANYTHING in the ACA...

Excon

Oh yeah, I'd scrap Zerocare completely and keep health care private. I don't trust our federal government and thus far they've proven to be mostly incompetent at most everything, including and especially the ACA.

If your goal is better, affordable health care for everyone let's work together. But that isn't your goal, you want single payer and nothing less so what's to discuss? In the meantime we've been sold a bill of goods, a train wreck that was designed to fail and so far the only ones being left in the lurch here are the consumers.

You have had your chance over the years and decades to make things better, but you didn't. Not my fault you righties prefer to be exploited by the inure industry but you can if you want to, just keep what you got and be happy.

Oh that's right, they till kept jacking the price up before Obama Care, and during. What, are you afraid to tell the insurance companies enough already? Sure you are.

Things were better before Al Gore dreamed up HMO's. That's when all the middlemen started the money grab that has nothing to do with delivering health care to the pattient. And inflates the costs of everything.

Before that costs were lower because the patient paid the doctor... there wasn't 50 other people expecting their cut .

You have had your chance over the years and decades to make things better, but you didn't. Not my fault you righties prefer to be exploited by the inure industry but you can if you want to, just keep what you got and be happy.

Oh that's right, they till kept jacking the price up before Obama Care, and during. What, are you afraid to tell the insurance companies enough already? Sure you are.

I guess you missed this post (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/3528341-post545.html) and this one (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/3528365-post547.html).

Time for an Obamacare experiment. Go to your favorite search engine and search for health insurance exchanges. Let me know which ones aren't legit.

The ones that I have looked up are spin offs of the major regional/local carriers from what I have seen. I have only checked Oregon, Utah, California, New York, and of course Texas.

Even the so called independent plans are underwritten by a larger insurance GROUP.

The ones that I have looked up are spin offs of the major regional/local carriers from what I have seen. I have only checked Oregon, Utah, California, New York, and of course Texas.

Even the so called independent plans are underwritten by a larger insurance GROUP.

The question was which ones are legit?

Obamacare is coming, and so are the con artists (http://www.cnbc.com/id/100963714)


"There are fake exchanges already up and running on the Internet," said Monica Lindeen, Montana's Commissioner of Securities and Insurance. "If you do a search and type in 'exchange,' you'll find all sorts of websites that claim to be in the exchange when they are not."

The question was which ones are legit?

And it was always so in the marketplace.

For years though the idea was to open up the insurance market for out of state competition. Don't know if that's good or bad because I doubt big companies allow smaller ones to take their dollars from them.

Hello again,

IF Obamacare is SUCH a disaster, why not let it get implemented? It'll FAIL, and then it'll be easy to repeal?

excon

Hello again,

IF Obamacare is SUCH a disaster, why not let it get implemented? It'll FAIL, and then it'll be easy to repeal?

excon

I'm sure that's your approach to business, right? Maybe you can take that approach in fantasy football.

Hello again, Steve:

I'm sure that's your approach to business, right?Actually, it IS.

I've been told a zillion times that MY business ideas are CRAZY and would NEVER work. In response, I've said if they're so bad, let the market decide.

And, it did.

Excon

And you can always change course without resistance. Put what you know is a bad football team out there and let's see how it works. Please.

We had the same argument over Social Security, and Medicare, and both have become popular bedrocks of our society, even among the TParty.

The ones that I have looked up are spin offs of the major regional/local carriers from what I have seen. I have only checked Oregon, Utah, California, New York, and of course Texas.

Even the so called independent plans are underwritten by a larger insurance GROUP.

The problem is going to come in when you try to regulate what is going on with a given insurance company. As it is now the States have been controlling them from within the States. If / when sales from outside insurance companies come to market the States may have no way of controlling the quality of payment to subscribers.

Hello again,

IF Obamacare is SUCH a disaster, why not let it get implemented? It'll FAIL, and then it'll be easy to repeal?

excon

That of course is the plan ;implement it and it will put the final nail into private health care system ;opening the door for the single payer system the left truly wants. The Dems don't even try to hide the fact that that is the goal.

No we don't, everybody knows that's the goal but you are wrong about the role that private insurance companies will play.

Canadian Health Care: Private Health Insurance (http://www.canadian-healthcare.org/page4.html)

I guess you don't want anyone to know that most countries with single payer also have private insurance providers.

No we don't, everybody knows that's the goal but you are wrong about the role that private insurance companies will play.

Canadian Health Care: Private Health Insurance (http://www.canadian-healthcare.org/page4.html)

I guess you don't want anyone to know that most countries with single payer also have private insurance providers.


We have something similar. Government and private institutions provide for health care. We also have a PBS. Most prescription medication is heavily subsidized. But not over the counter medication.

Private and employer based insurance has been going up for decades here Tut, and I am sure costs are going up still in places that have single/private payer.

I can't think of one damn thing that hasn't gone up, and keeps going up. NOT one damn thing. Even the cost of discount toilet paper is too damn high!!

Private and employer based insurance has been going up for decades here Tut, and I am sure costs are going up still in places that have single/private payer.

I can't think of one damn thing that hasn't gone up, and keeps going up. NOT one damn thing. Even the cost of discount toilet paper is too damn high!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ain't that the truth. Here as well.

No we don't, everybody knows that's the goal but you are wrong about the role that private insurance companies will play.

Canadian Health Care: Private Health Insurance (http://www.canadian-healthcare.org/page4.html)

I guess you don't want anyone to know that most countries with single payer also have private insurance providers.

That's accommodations for the greedy... right ?

No just a balanced and fair for the most part. OPTIONS.

I won't even bother with how UPS is cutting coverage for employee spouses, the school district that just made all it's substitute teachers part-timers or anything like that, just a note that unions are still not happy with Obamacare, especially in Dingy Harry Reid's state. They seem to be upset about that oft-quoted promise of if you like it you can keep it being broken (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/21/unions-obamacare-taft-hartley_n_3790548.html?utm_hp_ref=politics)...


"We want to hold the president to his word that you can keep the plan you like," Taylor added.

OK, carry on.

It will never be the emperor's fault.. UPS is just being greedy don'tcha know ?

I won't even bother with how UPS is cutting coverage for employee spouses, the school district that just made all it's substitute teachers part-timers or anything like that, just a note that unions are still not happy with Obamacare, especially in Dingy Harry Reid's state. They seem to be upset about that oft-quoted promise of if you like it you can keep it being broken (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/21/unions-obamacare-taft-hartley_n_3790548.html?utm_hp_ref=politics)....



OK, carry on.

Forever 21... just comverted or are in the process of.. converting every full time job into a 29.5 hour part time job. Because they can't afford mandated health care.

Democrats would be harping about how many new jobs were created... while ignoring the fact they used to be full time jobs.

UPS has seen rising costs any way for many years, everyone has, so now they have an excuse to screw the workers. Guess you haven't noticed workers across the nation are mobilizing, and citizens are angry, and mobilizing, against their state legislatures.

If the pizza guys can figure it out, and Olive Garden, surely UPS can too. I know you guys want to fight somebody, but you better pick your fights carefully. The earth is round and what goes around comes back around. I mean Squeal and Repeal I great, but what do you replace it with? >waiting for the crickets to chirp, or the squeal to get louder.<

At least acknowledge the price of everything has been going up before Obama came along.

The Soviet union fell because you can't give everyone elverything... only fools would go to school to be doctors or scientists if they are going to be paid the same as the guy pushing a broom and picking his nose.

And nobody can run a business at a loss for long... it makes more sense just to shut it down and send everyone home.

UPS has seen rising costs any way for many years, everyone has, so now they have an excuse to screw the workers. Guess you haven't noticed workers across the nation are mobilizing, and citizens are angry, and mobilizing, against their state legislatures.

If the pizza guys can figure it out, and Olive Garden, surely UPS can too. I know you guys want to fight somebody, but you better pick your fights carefully. The earth is round and what goes around comes back around. I mean Squeal and Repeal I great, but what do you replace it with? >waiting for the crickets to chirp, or the squeal to get louder.<

Do you seriously think dunking fries in grease is a $15 an hour job?


At least acknowledge the price of everything has been going up before Obama came along.

And before that as well.Now acknowledge the disastrous consequences of Obamacare and the broken promises. I mean Geez, the guy backing away from Obamacare the most is Obama.

You have no proof that business will operate at a loss, no one has said that. They have said it will hurt the bottom line, and that's the rub since they haven't said how much. Like the pizza guy wanted 7 cents more for his pie. Or the hamburger guy who can't buy 5 more franchises to go with 8 he has already.

So while you holler about what if's some actual numbers would be more accurate. But progressives are use to righty's hollering about being broke while raking in millions. And that's whose hollering.

You have no proof that business will operate at a loss, no one has said that. They have said it will hurt the bottom line, and that's the rub since they haven't said how much. Like the pizza guy wanted 7 cents more for his pie. Or the hamburger guy who can't buy 5 more franchises to go with 8 he has already.

So while you holler about what if's some actual numbers would be more accurate. But progressives are use to righty's hollering about being broke while raking in millions. And that's whose hollering.

Really... you have no proof a business running on slim margines can afford to pay its employees twice as much.

I'd like to see proof of how any business running slim margins... like most food indurtry jobs... can absorb an overnight doubling in wages... on top of Obamacare expensise...


Because you don't just have to raise the pay of the people on the bottom... but everyone abouve that to that $15 number because they worked and earned experience to be worth more... if some idiot off the street will get $15 then someone with a few years of experience should get theirs raised to... and pices have to double... and you have Jimmy Carter Era inflation all over again.


If any of those people are actually worth $15 an hour... then why doin't they go out and get a $15 hr job someplace else? Fact is they can't because they have no skills worth $15 an hour to anyone.


I didn't even get $15 an hour after graduating College with an Engineering degree... (even adjusted for inflation) so why should some high school dropout that's lucky to be able to tie their own shoes?

Hello again, Steve:

Now acknowledge the disastrous consequences of Obamacare and the broken promises. Nahhh.. Obamacare is great. It just needs a tad bit of tweaking. I've never rolled out a big business plan without having to tweak it a bit.. We do that ALL the time with legislation.

Even still, your credibility on the issue is LONG gone. Your HUMANITY is gone too.. I don't know what's so great about going back to when a person could be denied coverage because he's already sick, or ever WAS sick. I don't know what's so great about going bankrupt because of a major illness... I don't know. Maybe you can explain it to me..

But, what I HOPE you do, is follow your lemming, I mean your Senator, Ted Cruz OFF the government shutdown cliff. It'll mean the END of radicals like him and then maybe we can get back to business..

Excon

QUOTE by speechlesstx;
Do you seriously think dunking fries in grease is a $15 an hour job?

Do you seriously think the poor guy doing it for minimum wage can support a family?


And before that as well. Now acknowledge the disastrous consequences of Obamacare and the broken promises. I mean Geez, the guy backing away from Obamacare the most is Obama.

It hasn't been implemented and there is no data to say it will be a disaster. All we have is hollering, speculating, and knee jerking reaction at perceived threats to profitability. They said that when Medicare, and Social Security were enacted.

If it is a disaster, which I doubt, I will holler too. And I hardly think he is backing away from his own plan, just giving you righties a chance to swallow on your own, since you hate stuff rammed down your throat.

Too soon to cry, bltch, and moan about failure when we haven't tried anything so far. Somebody is trying to address a problem that's been going on for decades so get with it and be thinking of ways to succeed and not just holler and do nothing.

I know you guys don't have a better idea, or if you do, where is it?

You have no proof that business will operate at a loss, no one has said that. They have said it will hurt the bottom line, and that's the rub since they haven't said how much. Like the pizza guy wanted 7 cents more for his pie. Or the hamburger guy who can't buy 5 more franchises to go with 8 he has already.

So while you holler about what if's some actual numbers would be more accurate. But progressives are use to righty's hollering about being broke while raking in millions. And that's whose hollering.

It was a simple question, Do you seriously think dunking fries in grease is a $15 an hour job?

What is anyone doing with a family if they have no job skills to get a job to support them in the first place? They need to keep their pants on until they have a job to support a family.

Oh right... those are Democrats... thas why it matters.

It was a simple question, Do you seriously think dunking fries in grease is a $15 an hour job?
I've eaten fries that were soaked in grease and nearly inedible, so, yes, if the job is done well and correctly, it would be worth it.

What job do you think is worth $15.00 an hour?

If a fool off the street with no skills is worth $15... then I'm worth twice as much as I am too because that would devalue MY job giving them a huge raise.

And you could train a monkey to make fries most places... its simply dump frozen product in basket... put basket in hot oil... hit timer... remove fries when timer beeps. Sprinkle with salt...

I'm sure the average 4 year old could learn to do that in 5 minutes.

And you could train a monkey to make fries most places....its simply dump frozen product in basket...put basket in hot oil...hit timer....remove fries when timer beeps. Sprinkle with salt.....
Can't agree. I've eaten some pretty awful (greasy) fries that were left too long in the fryer or something. There IS an art to making great fries.

Add to that crummy customer service, and he/she just lost the $15 an hour.

Can't agree. I've eaten some pretty awful (greasy) fries that were left too long in the fryer or something. There IS an art to making great fries.

Add to that crummy customer service, and he/she just lost the $15 an hour.

Take a look how the restaurants do it... especially all the fast food places... thats exactly how its done. You can actually see that station from the cash register in most of them.

I've eaten fries that were soaked in grease and nearly inedible, so, yes, if the job is done well and correctly, it would be worth it.

What job do you think is worth $15.00 an hour?

In a McDonald's it's virtually foolproof. Everything is timed, measured, calibrated. etc. If you can't put fries in the basket, put the basket in the fryer and take them out when the timer goes off you aren't worth $8.00 and hour let alone $15.00

In a McDonald's it's virtually foolproof. Everything is timed, measured, calibrated. etc. If you can't put fries in the basket, put the basket in the fryer and take them out when the timer goes off you aren't worth $8.00 and hour let alone $15.00

Wendy's, Burger King, and Arby's as well.

In a McDonald's it's virtually foolproof. Everything is timed, measured, calibrated. etc. If you can't put fries in the basket, put the basket in the fryer and take them out when the timer goes off you aren't worth $8.00 and hour let alone $15.00
Does this person do anything else?

Does this person do anything else?

Not in the Major fast food places I've been.


Now at the smaller delies the short order cook deals with that...

Are you two guys at work hollering at us about who is worth what on the bosses time?

Are you two guys at work hollering at us about who is worth what on the bosses time?

Some of us multitask well. I'm sitting in front of five different computers and seven different screens right now. I'm only dinking around like this on one of them. I'm dealing with work stuff on the other six.

I'm one of only 6 people that can do what I do in this country. (There used to be more). Took me over 30 years to gain that knowledge and experience.

Multi tasking? That's a good excuse as any for goofing off on the job kicking it with your buds :) I suppose its better than playing golf, and the 3 martini business lunch excuse.

Naw, its not even close.

Multi tasking? That's a good excuse as any for goofing off on the job kicking it with your buds :) I suppose its better than playing golf, and the 3 martini business lunch excuse.

Naw, its not even close.

I do far more work than Obama does... and I don't get paid nearly as much.


I'm not tromping around Marthas Vineyard or on the golf course... 3/4 of the time in fact I do that ZERO % of the time.

I'm sitting in front of a bucn of computer screeens monitoring and dealing with network traffic issues... which by the way... in my secotor... aren't always broken. You keep an eye on things so you can hop on them when it does... and deal with other issues as they come up.

Hello again,

I LOVE the way people who've NEVER run a restaurant KNOW how to run a restaurant.. Well, I've run restaurants. Restaurants are friends of mine. You're no restauranteur.

excon

I've worked in a restaurant... our best friends own and run a restaurant, several in fact... and yes I know far more about what goes on there than I really should.

Hello again, smoothy:

I've worked in a restaurant... our best friends own and run a restaurant, several in fact... That's almost as good as staying in a Holiday Inn Express..

Excon

Hello again, smoothy:
That's almost as good as staying in a Holiday Inn Express..

excon

No its not... its way different.


And like I said... I know far more about the business side of that as well than I really should... but we've been really close friends for 18 years... I've set up their computers in the past... Ithey have linked Point of Sale systems now... and checked out their rerefridgeration system more than once advising them on what to expect... (they fired their guy for cheating them shortly after that and got a new contract with a different company). And I know all about the other things going on in there... ( so I know more about what goes on there than most of their employees do... except their general Manager).

SO I know almost as much as someone that's done it for a short time... and a lot more then most that haven't.

I won't even bother with how UPS is cutting coverage for employee spouses, the school district that just made all it's substitute teachers part-timers or anything like that, just a note that unions are still not happy with Obamacare, especially in Dingy Harry Reid's state. They seem to be upset about that oft-quoted promise of if you like it you can keep it being broken (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/21/unions-obamacare-taft-hartley_n_3790548.html?utm_hp_ref=politics)...



OK, carry on.

Citing ObamaCare spiraling costs as a reason, the University of Virginia has announced that spouses of University employees who have access to health insurance through their own jobs will no longer be eligible for health insurance coverage.

U Va was a public supporter of ObamaCare

Working spouse provision:
Starting Jan. 1, spouses who have access to coverage through their own employer will no longer be eligible for coverage under U.Va.'s plan. Spouses who do not have coverage elsewhere can remain on the employee's plan, and coverage of children is not affected.. .
University Employees Will See Significant Changes to Health Plan This Year | UVA Today (http://news.virginia.edu/content/university-employees-will-see-significant-changes-health-plan-year)

The university projected a $7.3 million increase to the cost of their plan in 2014 alone.

Hello again,

I LOVE the way people who've NEVER run a restaurant KNOW how to run a restaurant.. Well, I've run restaurants. Restaurants are friends of mine. You're no restauranteur.

excon

I beg your pardon, I have managed in two restaurants and my first job was a cook for two years - I did just about everything but sign the checks and order supplies in that job.

Hello again, tom:

Obama should have NEVER given the key to his success to the insurance companies.. He only did that in hopes of getting Republicans on board. It was NEVER a tactic if the left.. Single payer, of course, would FIX all of that.

Do you know if we took what we spend on health care now, and adopted single payer, everybody would have all the health care they need, and we'd have enough left over to buy a couple of aircraft carriers every year? Really, we would.

Now, it IS true, that insurance company CEO's won't be able to make MILLIONS and MILLIONS, and then a few more MILLIONS... But, right wingers are the only ones going to be crying for them...

excon

And they call themselves business savvy? Husband and wife work and have insurance both interchangeable primary, and secondary, so they lose nothing. In addition if they project a 7 million dollar increase in 2014, they should be hollering and crying to the company they use.

What insurance companies don't jack their customers? Maybe they should be looking at the state exchanges for a better deal, or use their considerable clout for a sweeter deal with the existing company.

I guess whatever the market will bear doesn't play into this crying, bltching, and moaning by the business class, huh? I didn't see all this crying when the middle class was being reduced to poverty, and consumers were deleveraged through debts and derivatives, so don't holler now.

I cry every time I hear that sorry excuse for the emperor. If that's truly what the left wants then that is what they should've proposed to the American people . But they didn't because they knew it had zero chance of passing .
Instead they shoved this cr@p sandwich down our throats in a dead of the night vote before all the lame ducks left town. Yeah they will get what they want all right .

Hello again, tom:

Obama should have NEVER given the key to his success to the insurance companies.. He only did that in hopes of getting Republicans on board. It was NEVER a tactic if the left.. Single payer, of course, would FIX all of that.

Do you know if we took what we spend on health care now, and adopted single payer, everybody would have all the health care they need, and we'd have enough left over to buy a couple of aircraft carriers every year?? Really, we would.

Now, it IS true, that insurance company CEO's won't be able to make MILLIONS and MILLIONS, and then a few more MILLIONS... But, right wingers are the only ones gonna be crying for them...

excon

If we'd get the third party out of the way altogether we could all save money on health care.

Lets see consumer, care provider, insurance company. Who gets kicked to the curb?

Lets see consumer, care provider, insurance company. Who gets kicked to the curb?

What, you think I'm a fan of insurance companies?

And now for the public sector joining the nation of part timers...

Local governments cutting hours over Obamacare costs (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2013/08/22/local-governments-cutting-hours-over-obamacare-costs/?)

At least Obama didn't promise "if you like your job you can keep your job" as one of Obamacare's benefits. Did he?

Other supporters of the law suggested the cuts could actually cost counties and cities more money than if they simply paid for part-time workers' health-care costs.

“There are some costs of doing business where it really does cost you more money to have multiple people on the job,” said Gary Burtless, a senior fellow of economic studies at the Brookings Institution. “Why would you create more jobs than you need to at 20 hours a week, when if you're really responding to the Affordable Care Act you would assign people to work 29 hours a week?”
“I don't think this is going to be a big direct-cost burden for counties and municipalities,” Burtless added.

Mercantante, the Middletown administrator, says it's the uncertainty that's driving his town's actions. “Towns are going to have to start looking at different types of health-care packages to offer to people given the new mandates, but I can't tell you what those are going to be or how much they're going to cost us,” he said.

They can guesstimate all they want to, but that's all it is, a guess, since nowhere have any detractors said they have tried negotiating better long term deals with the carrier. That would be the first thing a business or municipality should have done already rather than depend on current or past trends concerning costs.

Its just good business to negotiate with vendors and carriers and explore options with competition and use the leverage you have. A large customer base. So cry me a river about so called business leaders and managers that don't have a clue about doing business. We have talked of this before but still you only see one side.

Think about it. Cutting workers hours of those who are already part time is the dumbest thing a businessman can do to himself. Let me know when you figure out that more fulltime workers yields a greater leverage than less, or NONE.

It's a LOT cheaper having two part time workers doing 20 hours a week each than it is one full time worker doing 40 hours...

Because you have the high cost of Obamacare with the 40 hour worker but not the 20 hour workers. Because that cost kicks in at 30 hours... but not at 29.5 hours.

Its a LOT cheaper haveing two part time workers doing 20 hours a week each than it is one full time worker doing 40 hours...

Because you have the high cost of Obamacare with the 40 hour worker but not the 20 hour workers. Because that cost kicks in at 30 hours...but not at 29.5 hours.

So what's the point of two 20 hour workers. What you save on wages you may lose on productivity, and experience. That may be great for McDonalds or Walmart, but the Costco's that pays better wages and benefits is outperforming them both so which business model would you prefer to follow?

Seen any disgruntled Costco workers striking, picketing, and protesting? How much is that worth?

So what's the point of two 20 hour workers. What you save on wages you may lose on productivity, and experience.
And the employee turnover is huge with only/mostly part-time workers. And company loyalty is totally absent. Screwing the company (theft of supplies, sloppy work, etc.) becomes a problem.

So what's the point of two 20 hour workers. What you save on wages you may lose on productivity, and experience. That may be great for McDonalds or Walmart, but the Costco's that pays better wages and benefits is outperforming them both so which business model would you prefer to follow?

Seen any disgruntled Costco workers striking, picketing, and protesting? How much is that worth?

Well... multiply that across a workforce.


Also most of the jobs that would happen with are the trained monkey jobs that are usually considered entry level.

The ones that really take experience and skill... are going to be better paying jobs. And as I'm sure you've seen for yourself... not everyone is born with those skills... or will ever learn them.

There are people that really are not smart... and don't have the capacity to learn a highly skilled trade. Not counting the ones that do have the ability... but are just too lazy to make the effort.

Tal, you can whine and moan and tell us once again how those greedy corporations making gazillions of dollars aren't smart business people (think about it) but I'm just reporting what's happening in the real world. In the real world people are losing their jobs and getting hours cut due to Obamacare - even in the public sector now. You can't just excuse that away.

And the employee turnover is huge with only/mostly part-time workers. And company loyalty is totally absent. Screwing the company (theft of supplies, sloppy work, etc.) becomes a problem.

Most of the people that don't have the intelligence or the skills for better jobs are the same people that show up when they feel like it and don't show a lick of loyalty themselves.

Yes I know enough employers and that is a problem (finding people that even show up on time or at all) even with jobs that need a higher education and skillset.

I'm not the one whining, just explaining why you shouldn't listen to a business man blame Obama care for what's been a problem for a long time in this country. I also question not just the why but the who that's moaning and groaning, since I know for fact that some businesses are eyeing expansions, and upgrades to their businesses, as soon as the law is fully implemented. So as one sided as your arguments are, you cannot discount the good the law will do as a whole.

The health care industry as a whole may show more growth than it already has. You mean Amarillo hasn't seen expansion of hospitals and clinics? Dude even the county run hospital are getting bigger. Those are good job being created so screw the problems of the hamburger flippers and shelf stocker industries. You better get some skills and make some money.

Can't believe you have been missing all this.

I persoanlly know a couple doctors that are closing up their practices. They told me as much... and it is because of Obamacare.

My mom's doctor has almost completed his electronic medical records upgrades, my primary doctor already has, and share files, and test results with my specialists, AND insurance provider and yes I have access to every bill submitted with the codes and what was paid.

Not everyone will know how to make the system work for them, nor understand it very well but the knowledge is out there if you are willing to learn, and are patient with the learning curve. I can safely predict long term pricing of drugs and services stabilizing in as little as 3 years, and that alone will be great for consumers.

It can't be too bad since more republican governors are going for it after they get away from the reporters and cameras. Even Rick Perry is embracing the changes, while he renamed it and swears its his idea now.

I'm not the one whining, just explaining why you shouldn't listen to a business man blame Obama care for what's been a problem for a long time in this country. I also question not just the why but the who that's moaning and groaning, since I know for fact that some businesses are eyeing expansions, and upgrades to their businesses, as soon as the law is fully implemented. So as one sided as your arguments are, you cannot discount the good the law will do as a whole.

Dude, the last post was about the public sector following suit with part timers, not businesses.


the health care industry as a whole may show more growth than it already has. You mean Amarillo hasn't seen expansion of hospitals and clinics? Dude even the county run hospital are getting bigger. Those are good job being created so screw the problems of the hamburger flippers and shelf stocker industries. You better get some skills and make some money.

Can't believe you have been missing all this.

Amarillo's health care has grown for decades, we're a regional health center and if you'd paid attention I've often said my wife is in the health care industry so I've seen it from both sides for years. What's happening is providers are consolidating, joining large practices and getting bought out by those same giant corporate beasts you hate - and you're going to see more of that as the little guys get squeezed out and doctors just plain get fed up with the whole system. It's already been reported many times here how many doctors are getting out or planning on it thanks to, you guessed it, Obamacare.

You can be all cheery and "hopeful" but the fact is so far there hasn't been much good news come out of this monstrosity.

What's happening is providers are consolidating, joining large practices and getting bought out by those same giant corporate beasts you hate - and you're going to see more of that as the little guys get squeezed out and doctors just plain get fed up with the whole system.
Typical of what happens when there is over regulation. It's been demonstrated many times. The good news is that the few remaining cronies will be 'too big to fail'.

I have provided links many times to the hospitals buying up the private practices, none of which has anything to do with Obama Care but is corporate greed. I was trying to tie the public sector and the private sector knee jerk reaction together to how you that the so called business/ municipal managers are stuck on stupid, and lazy in finding ways to cope with an old problem and changing times.

This is nothing new for small rural towns, and counties who have always been strapped for cash, and who have needed to upgrade for decades. But until you have looked at the balance between people and profits, you will blame the wrong person, for the wrong reason, and find the wrong solutions.

Trickle down economic cannot work in a consumer driven economy. That's the basic problem, no circulation is the result. That why Romney's plan was a loser last year.

typical of what happens when there is over regulation. It's been demonstrated many times. The good news is that the few remaining cronies will be 'too big to fail'.

I love it when you blame over regulation as a reason companies cannot make even huger profits than they already do. And we should adapt the economics of third world countries to succeed.

This isn't a socialist country... businesses are rarely owned by the employees. So they take what the company offers or they go down the street to another company that will offer them more.

If they actually have any value as an employee they shouldn't have any trouble doing that.

You will never have value if you let anyone tell you what they think you are worth, and pay you less. That's why those good factory job are way across the water, and that 20 years you spent lands you at the mercy of a kid with pimples telling you how lazy, slow, and useless you are. And your old buds don't know you. Tell me again how valuable you are to your company who are probably looking to replace you once they find a young kid who is just a sharp, but takes less money, benefits and work longer hours.

Count your blessings while you have them. And keep doing what the boss tell you. And PS, the guy down the street don't want your old, tired, arrogant a$$. You just think he does.

The coolest thing about all this is that it's going to be the unions that drive the final nail into this folly .

Likely the unions will negotiate good terms for it members. That's what they do. Blue collar guys may have different needs than others, especially the seasonal ones.

Likely the unions will negotiate good terms for it members.
Just look at James Hoffa's rant about Obamacare .The emperor gets on his soap box all the time claiming to be looking out for the interests of the "middle class" .
The truth is that this folly ,if allowed to be implemented will be the biggest factor in the demise of the "middle class" . As the letter correctly points out ,Obamacare will “shatter not only our hard-earned health benefits, but destroy the foundation of the 40 hour work week that is the backbone of the American middle class.”

Of course they are hoist on their own petard . It was clear in 2009 that Obamacare incentivizes companies to make the adjustments that many are making ;and MOST will make eventually . Yet the unions sent out their shock troops to promote the plan ;and to help reelect the emperor.
Truth told of course is that unions destroy American jobs already. But they weren't doing it fast enough for the man who wants to fundamentally transform the country .

The banks destroyed American job, and the middle class, supporting corporate America's chasing cheap labor around the globe. This goes back to Bushes "New World Order", and Reagans union busting.

Or the republican goal of solving health care starting with Nixon was a sham to curry votes, and not a principle they believed in. Maybe all the bluster of wanting a strong middle class is more right wing BS, and you don't mean to include anyone that doesn't assimilate and follow your rules (principles), and methods.

You guys always ask why should you give compromise your principles? Yet turn around and make others give up theirs and adopt yours. It's not going to happen. The founders were wise to have regular elections, even if they never foresaw the lengths some go to change the rules, to keep power.

No wonder you long for the good old days, when you could do as you please, and make others bend to your will.

"The Banks" didn't destroy anything... Liberal policies did it.

Businesses exist to make money for their owners... every single disgruntled employee out there has the opportunity to start their own if they think they can do it better.

You have the loony right wing version of reality down pat.

Only the left believes only the elite are ALLOWED to start their own businesses.

What reality do you live in where there are NO privately owned businesses?

Only the left believes only the elite are ALLOWED to start their own businesses.
The recession has caused myriads of ordinary people to start their own small business/cottage industry. Over the years, I started my own resume/job coaching business, renegade counseling business, and freelance editing business. And the last thing I am is elite. And I wasn't disgruntled -- just an overachiever looking for ways to use up my extra energies.

Only the left believes only the elite are ALLOWED to start their own businesses.

What reality do you live in where there are NO privately owned businesses?

You are making that up, why I don't know, must be the stuff you read.

"The Banks" didn't destroy anything....

Of course they did. Have you read a single newspaper or watched a TV news show at any time in the last 5 years?

The banks FRAUDULENTLY sold worthless securities KNOWINGLY, causing the world wide financial collapse. This is NOT in dispute.

You need to get out more.

Of course they did. Have you read a single newspaper or watched a TV news show at any time in the last 5 years?

The banks FRAUDULENTLY sold worthless securities KNOWINGLY, causing the world wide financial collapse. This is NOT in dispute.

You need to get out more.

The dispute comes from how we got there in the first place. That is where the liberals come into the big picture. They created laws that forced the banks to do what they did. They forced a realestate bubble and allowed people that couldn't afford a home to buy one anyway.

Likely the unions will negotiate good terms for it members. That's what they do. Blue collar guys may have different needs than others, especially the seasonal ones.

Likely they will not is more like the truth. If they had negotiated properly then we wouldn't be having the mess we are in. I have seen plenty of businesses shut down by the unions. Why? Because they think they have a blank check when it comes to contracts. Reality says different.

Economic reality is that market and management affect the health of business more than unions do, and there is profit to be made buying and selling a business that has nothing to do with labor agreements.

But, if you are of the mindset that workers who help turn your idea into profit have no stake in the success or failure of what ever business you have then of course its very easy to blame the workers for failure. The fact is that most workers, union or not are the first to make adjustments to business during leaner times.

I use the loss of manufacturing jobs as a case where after MANY years of wage stagnation and contract concessions, still lost jobs to cheaper labor elsewhere across the globe. In almost every case, workers lost a livelihood and everything else they worked hard for, while business thrived even more.

So to blame unions for business decisions is basically prejudicial, and misguided. The boss lost his business, but he seldom loses a dime. I respectfully submit that investors and upper management make out like the bandits they are while passing the loses onto workers, and former workers who believed the promises of security that was wiped out by business shenanigan they have no power over.

All business seems to care about is the cheapest labor they can get, because free labor is illegal.

While those evil corporations are busy apparently running roughshod over employees, the architects of Obamacare are helping them while raking in the big bucks as lobbyists.

ObamaCare's architects reap windfall as Washington lobbyists - The Hill - covering Congress, Politics, Political Campaigns and Capitol Hill | TheHill.com (http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/318577-architects-of-obamacare-reap-windfall-as-washington-lobbyists)

Must be nice to be able to use legislative power to create a cushy job for yourself while shoveling the disastrous consequences off on the little guy.

Yes it is obvious some people can't sleep at night

Remember when there was a penalty for the individual mandate for not signing onto a plan ? Then SCOTUS twisted the wording of the law and called it a "tax " to justify it's constitutionality ? Well the Obots have renamed it once again.

The final rule on Obamacare's individual mandate, released this week by the IRS , uses the term “Shared Responsibility Payment for Not Maintaining Minimum Essential Coverage” more than 50 times to describe the mandate's penalty, ooops I mean tax. \
http://www.irs.gov/PUP/newsroom/REG-148500-12%20FR.pdf

How you must hate that concept of shared responsibility, otherwise known as socialism

A tax is a tax... a penalty is a penalty . To call it "shared responsibility" is dishonest Orwellian Obama-speak. Don't look now ;but the emperor is about to embark on another "kinetic military action ". But I digress . It should be noted that the emperor and Congress have deemed it fine that they and their staff are exempt from this "shared responsibility" I guess some pigs are more equal than others.

Hello again,

a tax is a tax .Tax, schmax... People will LIVE now who would have died...

Excon

a tax is a tax ....a penalty is a penalty . to call it "shared responsibility" is dishonest Orwellian Obama-speak. Don't look now ;but the emperor is about to embark on another "kinetic military action ". But I digress . It should be noted that the emperor and Congress have deemed it fine that they and their staff are exempt from this "shared responsibility" I guess some pigs are more equal than others.

But this term was used by the same organisation that brought you the investigation of right wing charitable organisations, I know you think they are biased but there is nothing tax collectors like more than a good tax they can get their teeth into, after all, all tax is to fund a shared responsibility

Nah ,taxes properly employed and administered fund the necessary duties of the government . You lefties use it as a redistribution tool and call it shared responsibility to disguise the theft .

nah ,taxes properly employed and administered fund the necessary duties of the government . You lefties use it as a redistribution tool and call it shared responsibility to disguise the theft .

A leftie?

Hospital and taxpayers who bear the cost of emergency room visits is redistribution too isn't it? Why are you for that?

Hospital and taxpayers who bear the cost of emergency room visits is redistribution too isn't it? Why are you for that?

I thought that was what you lefties expected from those who have and corporations making gazillions, paying our fair share to help the needy.

I wouldn't have a beeyatch if it were just you and your corporations, but taxpayers? You and your corporations don't pay your fair share in taxes or wages.

I wouldn't have a beeyatch if it were just you and your corporations, but taxpayers?? You and your corporations don't pay your fair share in taxes or wages.

What is a fair share ?

Oh I don't know can we settle for 110%

I wouldn't have a beeyatch if it were just you and your corporations, but taxpayers?? You and your corporations don't pay your fair share in taxes or wages.

Who is this "you" you speak of? I pay my taxes.

Yeah I used to do that but it's a bad scene so Now I don't need to, very liberating, I figure I don't need any air craft carriers this year

How about just admitting.. if you can afford to have an Iphone... you can afford to pay for your own medical insurance.

Hello again,

Yeah, yeah, yeah... Obamacare is flawed. But, the right wing has NO plan. They want a repeal to WHAT, I've asked before. I'm told back to what we had.

Or, maybe I wasn't, because the response was muddled. I'm asking for a CLEAR and CONCISE plan, if you have one...

But, you DON'T, and we ain't NEVER going back to a time when people died because they didn't have health insurance...

So, until YOU have a plan, your criticism falls on deaf ears.. It's the LAW. It's going to REMAIN the LAW. You need to get OVER it.

excon

I've never seen so many people so excited over something they admit sucks.

I've never seen so many people so excited over something they admit sucks.

They don't like it... just like most lefties and welfare recipients... they want something free that others will have to pay the tab for.

Hello again, Steve:

I've never seen so many people so excited over something they admit sucks.It sucks LESS than what we had. And, I see that you have NO response to my question. It WAS you who told me that going back to what we had is what you think we should do...

Or, maybe you didn't tell me that, because you really weren't clear.. Doncha think NOW is a good time for clarity? I'd be WILLING to dump Obamacare for Speechlesscare if you'd only tell me what that is..

I ASK, because we KNOW that even the right wing LOVES the good stuff in Obamacare... They just don't want to PAY for it.

Excon

It sucks a LOT MORE than what we've had... but then I wasn't a cheap SOB so I bought my insurance before I spent my money on stupid stuff.

I have gotten great health care before now as a result.

We have given answers but you ignore them, but yes I'd rather go back to what we had than have our federal government running things. And what gets me is none of you lefties seem to be bothered by all the special interest carve outs that are still coming. I thought you hated such favoritism, seeing as how it goes against your core beliefs.

Hello again, Steve:

And what gets me is none of you lefties seem to be bothered by all the special interest carve outs that are still comingI didn't like the carve outs for the insurance industry that Obama put IN the law to ATTRACT right wing support, but that didn't happen... I didn't LIKE any of the stuff he put in there for no good reason because right wing support was NEVER going to happen, and Obama was naïve enough to think it would.

So, these carve outs ain't much different than the other ones.

Let me ask you something else... You KNOW we're NOT going to go back, don't you?? You don't really think you can STOP it, even by shutting down the government, do you? Do you support shutting down the government if Obamacare is not de-funded?

Excon

Just wait to you try and convince all these young adults who are barely making it in this Obamaeconomy that the cost of their healthcare is going to sky rocket to pay for all these carve outs and special deals for geezers.

Hello again, tom:

in this Obamaeconomy that the cost of their healthcare is going to sky rocket Nahhhh... When the exchanges become available, rates will drop.

Excon

http://www.penguinpetes.com/images/tin-foil-hat.jpg

http://tucsoncitizen.com/hispanic-politico/files/2012/05/tin_foil_hat.gif

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/4451228416/h7A1FAF03/

I'm pretty sure you aren't using that meme correctly.

Nah... its meant for the people that think the Medical Industry is screwing them as they sleep... the ones that believe Obamacare will cure everything and be free for everyone.

All they have to do is find millions of doctors willing to pay a fortune and spend years in medical school , set up and run offices and buy equipment... to work for free. So welfare bums can get something for nothing.

Medical Industry is screwing them as they sleepNo one thinks that, it's the insurance industry that is doing that.

Hello again, tom:
Nahhhh... When the exchanges become available, rates will drop.

excon

Yeah, Ohioans will save (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/white-house-spins-article-about-34-increase-ohio-healthcare-premiums-good-news_751559.html#) 21% on premiums - based on the expected increase of 22% - thanks to subsidies. Nebraskans could see a 143% increase (http://fremonttribune.com/news/local/state-posts-proposed-rates-for-uninsured/article_c98046a2-fc9d-549c-b72f-bbdfbdd79f67.html) and Wisconsinites up to a 125% increase (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/report-health-care-premiums-increase-125-wisconsin-due-obamacare_752709.html) in premiums.

If all those young 'uns that can't afford it sign up there's bound to be a little room for prices to come down from there.

Hello again, tom:
Nahhhh... When the exchanges become available, rates will drop.

excon

Obamacare forces insurers to charge their oldest beneficiaries no more than 3 x what they charge their youngest ones(“community rating.”) This, despite the fact that these geezers have 6x the health care expenditures that younger people face.If insurers can't charge older people according to their risk, they have to make up those costs by charging higher premiums to those younger. The net effect is a redistribution of insurance costs from the old to the young. Now you know why AARP was so gung-ho for the law.

The plan to let them old geezers just die got voted down. Hmm, we could cut the middle man out and save a lot of loot. Or YOU could pay for the young kid with no insurance when he wrecks his bike and body hot dogging for some chick.

Its not lost on anyone that the alternative to Obama care is going back to insurance companies make their profits. Even though the naysayers already have insurance that rises steadily and has been for 30 years.

The plan to let them old geezers just die got voted down
No it didn't Obamacare took care of that too.You like to call it the IPAB... but I call it what it is ,the death panel . But the cool thing is that Dem geezers like Democratic National Committee Chairman Dr. Howard Dean are beginning to understand what it's about and are beginning to call for it's repeal.

One by one ,Obamacare is being delayed and opposed by more and more former supporters . But time isn't on our side ,because once the 1st part ,the entitements kick in ,then it will be as difficult to end as those other Federal entitlement frauds.

Yeah... we all know how frequently the Federal Government have demonstrated their ability to not only be profitible... but to set the standard of efficiency the private sector aspires to match.

(sarcasm font engaged)

no it didn't Obamacare took care of that too.You like to call it the IPAB...but I call it what it is ,the death panel . But the cool thing is that Dem geezers like Democratic National Committee Chairman Dr. Howard Dean are beginning to understand what it's about and are beginning to call for it's repeal.

One by one ,Obamacare is being delayed and opposed by more and more former supporters . But time aint on our side ,because once the 1st part ,the entitements kick in ,then it will be as difficult to end as those other Federal entitlement frauds.

Like Social Security, and Medicare? Even the TParty loves them, and they have said hands off. And they are old geezers too.

And don't take supporters who like what they have and wanting to keep it as supporting your repeal efforts. Having issues and questions is what it's about, destroying it is exclusive right wing sour grapes.

Speaking of unions, in spite of some serious lobbying from the White House the AFL-CIO went on record with a vote on a resolution critical of Obamacare.


AFL-CIO resolution criticizes Obamacare, seeks major changes | Mobile Washington Examiner (http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/afl-cio-resolution-criticizes-obamacare-seeks-major-changes/article/2535630?custom_click=rss)

Delegates to the AFL-CIO convention in Los Angeles approved a resolution Wednesday calling for major changes to the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare.

The resolution passed by voice vote despite furious lobbying from White House officials calling on Big Labor leaders to table the resolution.

The resolution states: "The ACA should be administered in a manner that preserves the high-quality health coverage multi-employer plans have provided to union families for decades and, if this is not possible, we will demand the ACA be amended by Congress."

Seems we aren't the only ones not happy with Zero care. The emperor is not having a good week... serves him right. The rest of us who warned you about him? Not so much. Thanks for foistng this nightmare on us.

Speaking of unions, in spite of some serious lobbying from the White House the AFL-CIO went on record with a vote on a resolution critical of Obamacare.



Seems we aren't the only ones not happy with Zero care. The emperor is not having a good week... serves him right. The rest of us who warned you about him? Not so much. Thanks for foistng this nightmare on us.

Has the duck hunting season opened over there already, are lame ducks easier to hit?

Speaking of unions, in spite of some serious lobbying from the White House the AFL-CIO went on record with a vote on a resolution critical of Obamacare.



Seems we aren't the only ones not happy with Zero care. The emperor is not having a good week... serves him right. The rest of us who warned you about him? Not so much. Thanks for foistng this nightmare on us.


Big unions, big government and big business will work things out to the satisfaction of 'the big three'. As for the rest of us... Well, I guess its tough luck.

There seems to be an inability to understand that it is the political system that actively promotes this type of solution. It doesn't matter who the emperor is now, or who he will be in the future.

I understand, but this guy has managed to make America a laughingstock. But then he does believe we need to be knocked down a few notches, in that he's succeeded.

Hello again,

Trader Joe's to DROP health coverage (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/11/trader-joes-obamacare_n_3902341.html?ir=Business&utm_campaign=091113&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Alert-business&utm_content=Photo) for it's part time workers...

But, that AIN'T a bad thing.. It's what's SUPPOSED to happen. A small business SAVES money, and his part time workers STILL get affordable health care.
Depending on income you may earn outside of Trader Joe's, -- i.e. another job -- we believe that with the $500 from Trader Joe's and the tax credits available under the ACA, many of you should be able to obtain health care coverage at very little if any net cost to you.
Whaddya know about that?

Excon

Only a lib would think pushing people out of their employer sponsored insurance and dependent on government largesse is a success. Oh, and did you catch that phrasing? "Many of you should be able to obtain health care coverage at very little if any net cost to you."

And if they can't?

Hello again, Steve:
And if they can't?Only a lib would want everybody's cost for health insurance to be the same.

But, it's even worse than that.. I don't think ANY employer should be burdened with his employees health care costs. That is, if you want OUR industry to be competitive with the WORLD'S industry, and the WORLD'S industry DOESN'T have that burden.

Excon

Libs believe in dragging everyone DOWN to their level... rather thant raising people up to the level of others.

Libs believe in dragging everyone DOWN to their level...rather thant raising people up to the level of others.
What are Repubs doing to raise people up?

Hello again, smoothy:

I don't know.. The post above yours that I, a VERY liberal person, wrote, IS PRO business ALL THE WAY...

But, you're right about one thing, though... I'm a VERY liberal person AND a VERY successful businessman. I believe in dragging people UP to my level.

Bwa, ha ha ha.

excon

Hello again, Steve:Only a lib would want everybody's cost for health insurance to be the same.

But, it's even worse than that.. I don't think ANY employer should be burdened with his employees health care costs. That is, if you want OUR industry to be competitive with the WORLD'S industry, and the WORLD'S industry DOESN'T have that burden.

excon

Only a lib would believe that offering benefits in a competitive marketplace is a bad thing. Some of really liked it that way, ask the unions.

I don't believe the government has any business dispensing heath care out to anyone... because they have demonstrated how their corruption is so deep their best friends will get everything they want.. cost being no object... while those that they dislike will be denied basic services...

I don't believe the government has any business dispensing heath care out to anyone
They aren't. The insurance companies are, as always.

Hello again, smoothy:

they have demonstrated how their corruption is so deep their best friends will get everything they want.. cost being no object... while those that they dislike will be denied basic services... I don't know. I'm on Medicare. They don't know my politics. They just pay the bills. And, they pay EVERYBODY'S bills regardless of their political persuasion..

How is it, that you DON'T know that?

Excon

They aren't. The insurance companies are, as always.

I get mine from my doctor.

They aren't. The insurance companies are, as always.

Not under Obamacare they won't be.

Hello again, smoothy:
I dunno. I'm on Medicare. They don't know my politics. They just pay the bills. And, they pay EVERYBODY'S bills regardless of their political persuasion..

How is it, that you DON'T know that?

excon

Obamacare isn't Medicare... and nothing Obama has ever done has been impartial or unbiased in any aspect.

Hello again, smoothy:

Not under Obamacare they won't be.Apparently, you think Obamacare is single payer. It's NOT. You will get your health insurance from health insurance companies just like you always have.

How is it, that you don't know that?

Look.. Over the past few days, you've exhibited absolutely NO grasp of what's going on around you... Step away from FOX News, Drudge, and I'd turn off that Jones dude too.

Excon

Hello again, smoothy:
Apparently, you think Obamacare is single payer. It's NOT. You will get your health insurance from health insurance companies just like you always have.

How is it, that you don't know that?

Look.. Over the past few days, you've exhibited absolutely NO grasp of what's going on around you... Step away from FOX News, Drudge, and I'd turn off that Jones dude too.

excon

I think its you that thinks the government isn't completely involved in Obamacare...

In fact its already proven it will cost at least three times as much as current medical insurance does... and coverage will be fare less...

Just so a few million illegals will get free healthcare.

Only Jesus CHrist was able to feed the masses with a single fish and one loaf of bread.

Somehow the Democrats think Obama can do even more than that.

Not under Obamacare they won't be.
My son, who is a part-time employee, pays for his own health care, has BC-BS. He is already getting mailings from insurance companies asking him to check into their plans and switch.

Yeah.. a real bargain with half the coverage at twice the price.

Yeah..a real bargain with half the coverage at twice the price.
Actually, no.

Actually, no.

Actually yes... and every week the true cost is revised upwards. There hasn't been a claimed savings since not long after the bill was rammed down everyone's throats...

Not even Obama is claiming its going to save any money. Not anymore. They made a lot of false claims and assumptions to even make that claim to begin with.


And the CBO is who says this... a federal agency.

Where there were 3 choices, now there are 9. But it's the republicans crewing up the works even after republican governors have got behind it. Even in Virginia.

Virginia health insurance exchange: your state (http://www.healthinsurance.org/virginia-state-health-insurance-exchange/)


In August 2010, McDonnell appointed the Health Reform Initiative Advisory Council. The council issued a report in December 2010 and recommended that Virginia implement a state-based exchange.

The Virginia General Assembly passed legislation in 2010 to invalidate the individual mandate of the Affordable Care Act, and the state attorney general filed a lawsuit against Kathleen Sibelius, the secretary of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, based on the new law. After a series of legal actions, the state law ultimately ruled invalid.

In 2011, the General Assembly passed legislation that was supportive of a state-based exchange, and McDonnell signed the bill into law. However, throughout the 2012 session the General Assembly failed to pass additional legislation necessary to move ahead with exchange implementation.

Finally, after President Obama's re-election, McDonnell notified HHS that Virginia would not proceed with a state-based exchange nor Medicaid expansion. While the norm for the federally operated exchange leaves no role for the state, McDonnell did lobby for oversight of the health plans that will operate on the exchange within the state. HHS approved McDonnell's request in March 2013.

According to Kaiser's State Health Facts, 14 percent of Virginians do not have health insurance.

So they lie something is being rammed down republican throats is actually a program that affects the uninsured Americans and the insured ones gain more options than what insurance companies want to give so they SQUEAL higher future rates, and employers SQUEAL less hours.

Both have been gouging the American public for years in search of MO' MONEY, from your pocket to theirs.

19 days before it starts, and facts become apparent and the SQUEALER eat their own crap for a change. Bon Apetite Smoothy.

Bovine excrement...

Your choice and you will swallow. Chew well is my advise.

Your choice and you will swallow. Chew well is my advise.

Not if we can do anything about it... and there isn't a law that can't be repealed... including this one.

Not if we can do anything about it...and there isn't a law that can't be repealed.....including this one.
Or tweaked, as needed.

Or tweaked, as needed.

It takes more than a tweak to touch this.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BFGcd8oCUAEEc7k.jpg

Or tweaked, as needed.

Its such a mess from its very foundation... its beyond fixing.

Its such a mess from its very foundation....its beyond fixing.
Not according to the insurance mailings my son is getting.

Not according to the insurance mailings my son is getting.

Its is according to everyone else that knows anything about it.


In fact... Websters is changing their definition of " Mess" to Obamacare as an example given.

You don't know anything about it either, and for sure the squeal and repeal crowd doesn't either because they are to lazy, or illiterate to read the thing, even the shorter online version that's been out for years.

Holler in your own circles as the rest of us move forward and drag your right wing carcasses with us, like we always have to do. Kicking, screaming and squealing.

18 more days you loud buggers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You don't know anything about it either, and for sure the squeal and repeal crowd doesn't either because they are to lazy, or illiterate to read the thing

Oh the irony coming from the "we have to pass it to know what's in it" side of things. Dude, no one understands it, you don't either.

It could stand some improvements and probably will over time and I may not be an expert, but do have a GREAT understanding of it. Not only that I have seen a marked improvement over the years of my own health care insurance which has already notified us that they exceed the requirements the law has mandated them to do and are an option as we get ready to sign up for social security.

One thing no one has talked about is how it may save Medicaid a lot of loot, and that saves taxpayers, and not sure why more has not been made of it especially if the economy grows at 1% higher than it did last year. I take that back, the noise on the right is trying to drown out real debate, consensus, and reasonable compromise because the NEW (old/only) principle is turn back the hands of time to bring back the good old days they remember when minorities, and women did as they were told and YOU did as you wanted.

Has everyone got their hip waders on yet?

Has everyone got their hip waders on yet?
Am splashing barefoot in the puddles.

Am splashing barefoot in the puddles.

Ewwwwww!


http://misscongeniality.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/swine-flu-2.jpg?w=500

ewwwwww!
*potchy potchy potchy*

(Used to do that in warm spring-rain puddles on the sidewalk when I lived in NC)

Let me address for a minute the concerns of unions and their subsidies issue. Like employers they may well have to use there leverage of millions of workers to get a better deal from existing providers and mitigate any higher cost because they as consumers have got the insurance companies by the balls with added competition. One avenue may close but others will open, BIGTIME.

The unions may criticize but they haven't stopped negotiating, unlike the squealers who can't read and don't have a better plan. The last one was voted down in the 2012 election.

One more thing is that my union provided health care is from one of the biggest insurers in Texas.

Hello again,

Remember that healthcare bill that was rammed through in spite of the American people's overwhelming objection?

In the United States of America, the country I LOVE and spilled my blood for, laws are passed by the congress WE voted for.. NOBODY shoved ANYTHING down your throat. If you don't like who won, and what they did, campaign for the other guy..

That's how it works here in THIS great country of ours... You got BEAT. Stop your sniveling..

Excon

17 days left for the Squeal crowd to repeal ACA. Can they punk the president like they say Putin did? I don't think so, but be careful what you wish for.

Obama is already a punk... all anyone has to do is point it out anytime Mister Bobblehead struts into a room.

That's because a bunch of Repubics in Congress forget why the people gave them the majority in 2010. It's very simple... send a continuing resolution from the House that funds the government but defunds Obamacare . When the Senate balks ,or the President vetoes it will be the Dems that shut the government down.

Actually he has been punkin' you righty's for years and making you squeal. What you think nobody knows that? Everybody knows that even you guys as he has taken your best shots and is still doing his thing.

Don't like admitting your own failures do you, chief of which was making him a one term president.

That makes you guys the punks. You losers. That's not a criticism, just a fact. Chew on that even if you don't want to swallow. Don't dare try to spit it out or you get more shoved down your throats. My bad, you will get more whether you swallow or not.

Hello again, tom:

When the Senate balks ,or the President vetoes it will be the Dems that shut the government down.Like Romney BELIEVED, with ALL his heart and soul, that he was going to win, I HOPE you believe your own tripe too.

Because the TRUTH is, if you shut the government down, or cause us to default, the country will pay you back with massive defeats in both houses and the presidency. You may very well be OUT of power for the next 40 years.

Then we can get back to fixing what you destroyed.

Excon

Actually he has been punkin' you righty's for years and making you squeal. What you think nobody knows that? Everybody knows that even you guys as he has taken your best shots and is still doing his thing.

Don't like admitting your own failures do you, chief of which was making him a one term president.

That makes you guys the punks. You losers. That's not a criticism, just a fact. Chew on that even if you don't want to swallow. Don't dare try to spit it out or you get more shoved down your throats. My bad, you will get more whether you swallow or not.

The nation has already had plenty shoved down it's throats by the Obots .

You were telling us exactly how wonderful this Zerocare thing is supposed to be?


A MNsure employee accidentally sent an e-mail file to an Apple Valley insurance broker’s office on Thursday that contained Social Security numbers, names, business addresses and other identifying information on more than 2,400 insurance agents (http://www.startribune.com/business/223564521.html).

An official at MNsure, the state’s new online health insurance exchange, acknowledged it had mishandled private data. A MNsure security manager called the broker, Jim Koester, and walked him and his assistant through a process of deleting the file from their computer hard drives.

That's comforting. We all know unions aren't happy with it, congressional staffers don't want it, IRS employees don't want it, now we have a survey of federal employees telling us the obvious (http://www.forbes.com/sites/merrillmatthews/2013/08/12/shocker-new-survey-finds-nearly-every-federal-employee-rejects-obamacare/)...


Who knew that when President Obama promised, “If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period,” he was only referring to federal employees … and himself?

A new survey of 2,500 federal employees and retirees found that 92.3 percent believe federal workers should keep their current health insurance and not be forced into ObamaCare. Only 2.9 percent say they should become part of the new health insurance exchanges.

I suspect a similar percentage of private sector employees would also like to keep their coverage, but most won’t get that option. What I’d like to know is how many of those federal employees so eager to avoid ObamaCare themselves supported forcing everyone else in it.

There’s more. The survey, conducted by FedSmith.com, “an information portal for sources of information impacting the federal community and those interested in the Federal Government’s activities,” found that 96.1 percent think federal retirees should be able to stay with their retirement health insurance. Only 3.9 percent think they should get “Medicare in lieu of their current option.”

To put it simply: Federal employees and retires almost unanimously prefer to stay in their generous taxpayer-funded health insurance program, known as the Federal Employees Health Benefit Plan (FEHBP), rather than being dumped into liberalism’s two greatest monuments to government-run health insurance, ObamaCare and Medicare.

Speaks volumes, doesn’t it?

Yes, but no one is listening and they don't care. Onward over the cliff...

Ask them if they would rather have a voucher like you guys want them to have? They rejected that too.

14 days to go.

I heard the US is going to shut down on October 1 how stupid is that

We've shut the gvt down before... what people discovered was how little it was missed .

Ask them if they would rather have a voucher like you guys want them to have? They rejected that too.

14 days to go.

Yep, the total clusterfark is two weeks away.

Jesse Helms said that about civil rights, and Reagan hollered against Medicare. Now you guys holler about the ACA, while Bachmann goes to the middle east and hollers about the Brotherhood taking down the Twin Towers.

And your buddy Ted Cruz wishes there were 100 more senators like Jessie Helms. You guys seem to be clusterfarking for a long time already.

There is only one party in charge of all the clusterfarks we got going for us now, and it starts with a d.

How about EVERYONE that has gotten an exemption have them taken away... and FORCE Congress, The Senate... AND the WHite house and their staffs to have it too.

If its so freakin great... let EVERYONE have it STARTING with the brain dead fools who wrote it and rammed it down our throats

If its so freakin great...let EVERYONE have it STARTING with the brain dead fools who wrote it and rammed it down our throats
“Let me be exactly clear about what health care reform means to you,” the president told residents of the Garden State. “First of all, if you’ve got health insurance, you like your doctors, you like your plan, you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan. Nobody is talking about taking that away from you."

“Let me be exactly clear about what health care reform means to you,” the president told residents of the Garden State. “First of all, if you’ve got health insurance, you like your doctors, you like your plan, you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan. Nobody is talking about taking that away from you."

I have ocean front property in Kansas to sell you if you believe that line of crap.

The putrid POTUS also promissed it would save everyone money... (using figures he apparently pulled from his rectal orifice) because the Governments own estimates have more than TRIPLED the costs promised... and significantly reduced the numbers promised to be covered.

You also need to talk to the many medical professionals who have or will be closing up their practices... rather than operate at a loss.

“Let me be exactly clear about what health care reform means to you,” the president told residents of the Garden State. “First of all, if you’ve got health insurance, you like your doctors, you like your plan, you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan. Nobody is talking about taking that away from you."

He may not have been talking about it but the evidence is quite clear that most will not be able to keep their plan - except federal employees.

He may not have been talking about it but the evidence is quite clear that most will not be able to keep their plan - except federal employees.
We shall see, we shall see.

We shall see, we shall see.

You don't need to wait... there are already businessis dropping their medical plans for employees or cutting hours. How can they possibly keep them?

You don't need to wait....there are already businessis dropping their medical plans for employees or cutting hours. How can they possibly keep them?
They are over-reacting.

Hello again,

The right wingers in congress voted to repeal Obamacare 41 times.. Not ONCE did they offer an amendment to fix it, or to offer a plan... It's just squeal and repeal...

The funny part is, it IS law, and it won't be repealed. What's funnier still that your party is going to DESTROY itself over it.

excon

They are over-reacting.

Do you watch the news?. Trader Joes and Forever 21 are just two of the latest that have been on the news... there are far more that haven't made the news.

Hello again,

The right wingers in congress voted to repeal Obamacare 41 times.. Not ONCE did they offer an amendment to fix it, or to offer a plan... It's just squeal and repeal...

The funny part is, it IS law, and it won't be repealed. What's funnier still that your party is going to DESTROY itself over it.

excon

You can't fix something that's this badly broken... it was stillborn from the very beginning. Thank Nancy Pelosi and YOUR side for such a historical screwup.

You can't fix something thats this badly broken..........it was stillborn from the very beginning. Thank Nancy Pelosi and YOUR side for such a historical screwup.
Isn't that what was said about Medicare and SS?

Isn't that what was said about Medicare and SS?

No... it wasn't. Not even the democrat leadership likes it... thats why they are running away from it too. Not ONE of them has it or will have it.

No...it wasn't. Not even the democrat leadership likes it...thats why they are running away from it too. Not ONE of them has it or will have it.
I like them. Hope they don't disappear before I do.

It's for people who don't have it, or can't afford it. Why are you crying? You're happy with what YOU have, aren't you?

It's for people who don't have it, or can't afford it. Why are you crying? You're happy with what YOU have, aren't you?

Let the cheap SOB's pay for it themselves... or stop breeding.

They do have to pay for it themselves, and if you righties stop closing legal abortion clinics there would be less breeding.

We shall see, we shall see.

Come on, the examples in this thread alone are proof enough that most people will not get to keep the plans they had.

They do have to pay for it themselves, and if you righties stop closing legal abortion clinics there would be less breeding.

Right... thats what you want us to think... but the fact is that's not true... many of them will get it free or subsidized... that means someone else is getting shafted picking up the bill... thats those of us who actually work for a living AND pay taxes... unlike them.