Your doctor's political opinion aside doesn't want to upgrade, or modernize, nor want a cap on what he gets paid. But old people on Medicare love it, even the TParty old people. Did you notice he is a gynecologist? It ain't Obamacare coming between him and his patient.

Funny about how the argument the last few years has been how important it was to get this in place NOW otherwise millions would die if its delayed...

Now its delayed for at least a year... those millions that were claimed would be dying aren't so important.

Your doctor's political opinion aside doesn't want to upgrade, or modernize, nor want a cap on what he gets paid. But old people on Medicare love it, even the TParty old people. Did you notice he is a gynecologist? It ain't Obamacare coming between him and his patient.

When did gynecologists only become relevant to younger women? And you think you know women and their needs...

Your doctor's political opinion aside doesn't want to upgrade, or modernize, nor want a cap on what he gets paid.
Yeah he's a greedy bass turd... Doesn't matter that he hasn't paid himself in over 3 years trying to keep his practice going.. But he's greedy... He would've saved money (from his personal savings ) by closing down shop 3 years ago... firing his staff ,and leaving his patients to fend for themselves . But he's greedy for trying to make it work for 3 years while he took no pay.

Yeah he's a greedy bass turd... Doesn't matter that he hasn't paid himself in over 3 years trying to keep his practice going .. But he's greedy ... He would've saved money (from his personal savings ) by closing down shop 3 years ago ...firing his staff ,and leaving his patients to fend for themselves . But he's greedy for trying to make it work for 3 years while he took no pay.

The nerve of him.

What is he spending his saving on if its not reinvesting in upgrades, technology, and staff training? My point about his area of practice is to show he fits your negative narrative without a deeper look into the facts. The bureaucrats he speaks of are state, local, and county officials.

And if he was the exception you may have a point . But his decision is a decision that many doctors are making or will be making soon. But that fits into the left plan too. Doctors should not have a private for profit practice. Instead they should be employees of the nanny-state who's wages are strictly controlled .

and if he was the exception you may have a point . But his decision is a decision that many doctors are making or will be making soon. But that fits into the left plan too. Doctors should not have a private for profit practice. Instead they should be employees of the nanny-state who's wages are strictly controlled .

Unless they're abortionists.

Hello again,


The bureaucrats he speaks of are state, local, and county officials.They might even be from the Vaginal Probe Board who's job it is, is to SEE to it, that this doctor stick something wayyyy up inside a woman whether she needs it or not.

Maybe they'll be from the APB, Abortion Prevention Bureau... They're the bureaucrats who are going to see to it that EVERY pregnancy ends in a birth. They might even station cops IN his practice.. I'm SURE they'll install a wireless uterine monitoring device that reports DIRECTLY to them.

Excon

and if he was the exception you may have a point . But his decision is a decision that many doctors are making or will be making soon. But that fits into the left plan too. Doctors should not have a private for profit practice. Instead they should be employees of the nanny-state who's wages are strictly controlled .

I guess you didn't know that private not for profit hospital have been forcing doctors to steer patient to them and are making the doctor accept a salary for admitting privileges. It's the hospitals and insurance companies making doctors charge you extra fees for non health related expenses.

Lookup the Time magazine article by Steven Brill. It an eye opener. Hospital have been buying private clinic for YEARS.

Hello again,

They might even be from the Vaginal Probe Board who's job it is, is to SEE to it, that this doctor stick something wayyyy up inside a woman whether she needs it or not.

Maybe they'll be from the APB, Abortion Prevention Bureau... They're the bureaucrats who are going to see to it that EVERY pregnancy ends in a birth. They might even station cops IN his practice.. I'm SURE they'll install a wireless uterine monitoring device that reports DIRECTLY to them.

Excon


Yeah, we're trying to become as barbaric as most of Europe (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6235557.stm) (edited for space)


AUSTRIA

Availability: On request

Gestational limit: First three months - in practice often before 12 weeks

Conditions: Must have medical consultation. May be performed after 12 weeks if necessary to avoid serious danger to the woman's physical or mental health; if the child is at risk of being born with a serious physical or mental defect; or if the woman is under 14 years of age.

BELGIUM

Availability: On request

Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Conditions: Woman must say she is in a "state of distress". Abortions allowed at any stage later in pregnancy if two physicians agree there is a serious risk to the health of the mother or that the child has an "extremely serious and incurable disease".

BULGARIA

Availability: On request

Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Conditions: Between 12 and 20 weeks, abortion is permitted only if the woman is suffering from a proven, documented case of a disease that could endanger the life of mother or child. After 20 weeks, abortion is permitted only if the woman's life is in danger or evidence is found of severe foetal impairment.

CYPRUS

Availability: Under certain conditions

Gestational limit: 28 weeks

CZECH REPUBLIC

Availability: On request

Gestational limit: 12 weeks

DENMARK

Availability: On request

Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Conditions: After 12 weeks, if the pregnancy does not pose a risk to the woman's life or of serious deterioration to her physical or mental health, the abortion must be approved by a committee of four people.

The procedure must be performed by a physician in a state or communal hospital or in a clinic attached to a hospital. No cost, part of the public health system.

Abortion for non-residents is not allowed unless they have some special relationship with Denmark.

FAROE ISLANDS:

Availability: Under certain conditions

Gestational limit: 16 weeks

ESTONIA

Availability: On request

Gestational limit: 12 weeks

FINLAND

Availability: Under certain conditions

Gestational limit: 24 weeks

FRANCE

Availability: On request

Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Conditions: The woman must claim to be in a "state of distress" because of her pregnancy. After 12 weeks, abortions are allowed only if the pregnancy poses a grave danger to the woman's health or there is a risk the child will suffer from a severe illness recognised as incurable. If this is the case, two doctors must confirm the risk to the health of the woman or foetus.

A pregnant girl under the age of 16 may ask for an abortion without consulting her parents first. But she has to be accompanied by an adult of her choice.
Conscientious objection allows professionals to decline involvement in procedures, but they must inform the patient without delay.

GERMANY

Availability: On request

Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Conditions: The woman must receive proper counselling three days before the procedure. The state-regulated counselling is required to inform the woman that the unborn have a right to life and to try to convince her to continue her pregnancy.

GREECE

Availability: On request

Gestational limit: 12 weeks

HUNGARY

Availability: On request

Gestational limit: 12 weeks

IRELAND

Availability: Strict conditions

Gestational limit: No set limit

Conditions: Only allowed if woman's life is at risk (including the risk of suicide).

ITALY

Availability: On request

Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Conditions: A one-week reflection period is imposed unless the situation is one of urgency. A certificate confirming the pregnancy and the request for termination must be issued by a doctor and signed by the woman and the doctor.

Parental authorisation is required if the woman is under 18. After 12 weeks, abortion is allowed only if the foetus has a genetic deficiency or to preserve the physical and mental health of the mother. An abortion must be performed in a public hospital or authorised private facility - if there are staff willing to perform the procedure.

LATVIA

Availability: On request

Gestational limit: 12 weeks

LITHUANIA

Availability: On request

Gestational limit: 12 weeks

LUXEMBOURG

Availability: Under certain conditions

Gestational limit: 12 weeks

Conditions: Allowed during first 12 weeks to save a woman's life, to preserve her mental or physical health, for economic or social reasons in the cases of rape or incest or foetal impairment. A one-week reflection period is required and the pregnant woman must be given an information booklet in which options other than abortion are explained.

MALTA

Availability: None

Conditions: Abortion is prohibited in all circumstances. Anyone performing an abortion - or a woman who performs one on herself or consents to the procedure - can be jailed for between 18 months and three years. A physician, surgeon, obstetrician, or pharmacist who performs an abortion faces a jail term of 18 months to four years and a lifelong ban from exercising his or her profession.

THE NETHERLANDS

Availability: On request

Gestational limit: 13 weeks

Conditions: A five-day waiting period is required between the initial consultation and the performance of an induced abortion. The procedure must be performed in a licensed hospital or clinic. Abortion is allowed after 13 weeks (up to 24 weeks) if she claims to be in a state of distress.

POLAND

Availability: Under certain conditions

Gestational limit: 12 weeks

PORTUGAL

Availability: Under certain conditions

Gestational limit: 16 weeks

ROMANIA

Availability: On request

Gestational limit: 14 weeks

Conditions: Must be carried out with the woman's consent in an approved medical institution or surgery. Abortions may be performed later in pregnancy if absolutely necessary for therapeutic reasons, according to legal provisions.

SLOVAKIA

Availability: On request

Gestational limit: 12 weeks

SLOVENIA

Availability: On request

Gestational limit: 10 weeks

SPAIN

Availability: Under certain conditions

Gestational limit: 22 weeks

Conditions: Abortions are allowed to avoid serious risk to physical or mental health of the woman within the first 12 weeks. If the pregnancy is a result of rape, the rape must first be reported to the police and the procedure carried out within 12 weeks of pregnancy.

In case of foetal impairment, two specialists, other than the doctor performing the abortion, must certify that the child would suffer from severe physical or mental defects. The procedure must be performed within the first 22 weeks.
All abortions must be reported to the national health authorities.

SWEDEN

Availability: On request

Gestational limit: 18 weeks

Conditions: Between 12 and 18 weeks of gestation, the women must discuss the procedure with a social worker. After 18 weeks, permission must be obtained from the National Board of Health and Welfare.

Abortions must be performed by a licensed medical practitioner and, except in cases of emergency, in a general hospital or other approved healthcare establishment. Abortion is subsidised by the government. The country says illegal abortions have been eradicated.

UNITED KINGDOM

Availability: Under certain conditions

Gestational limit: 24 weeks

Why isn't 9 weeks enough, and the typical abortion is 12 weeks here. Its legal within the first trimester.

"Coverage for about 7 million people expected to enroll in health exchanges next year will cost U.S. taxpayers about $26 billion, the Congressional Budget Office says. That figure nearly doubles a year later, and exchange coverage is expected to total $1.1 trillion through 2023. A spokeswoman for the agency, Deborah Kilroe, said in an e-mail that it has no estimate of how many people in exchanges will be retirees." FROM speech's link re: cities transferring retirees to exchanges.
That 7 million which doubles a year later to $ 1.1 Trillion probably doesn't include the currently employed workers who will now not know if there employer will ever be required to provide coverage or pay a penalty. Do they bide their time until 2015 and see what happens and hope not to get sick while paying their "tax" for not having insurance or go to exchanges and get covered?
How many group policies did insurance companies plan on picking up in 2014 and what effect will having to cover pre-existing conditions etc. now have on everyone's rates? My group plan usually runs from July through June, but this year it runs only until Oct. Insurance companies want as much smoke as possible to clear before they have to agree to any premiums for 2014 and that was before the recent "delay" of employer requirements.
Single payer is coming Ex, and it was a pretty shrewd switcheroo planned from day one.

Why isn't 9 weeks enough, and the typical abortion is 12 weeks here. Its legal within the first trimester.

I'll go for 9 weeks.

A new day, a new screwup for Obamacare.

A break for smokers? Glitch may limit penalties (http://news.yahoo.com/break-smokers-glitch-may-limit-penalties-071458553.html)

Aside from the latest implementation glitch, I want to know why Obama hates smokers.

Hello again, Steve:
I want to know why Obama hates smokers.Me too.

Excon

smearcase has said it twice on recent comments . Obamacare was never designed to succeed .It was designed to collapse the current system completely so they can build a single payer system on the rubble.

That is a great idea too. The old system only worked for greedy capitalist.

I'm not a greedy capitolist... and I've never been accused of being rich... but the old system worked damn well and was the envy of the world.

was the envy of the worldNot really.

Hello again, tom:

so they can build a single payer system on the rubble.Nahhhh... If, as you're want to say, the Democrats shoved it down the throats of the unwilling, then they would have shoved single payer.

Excon

Not really.

Well YOUR Prime Minister Paid cash to come here for a surgery rather than use the Canadian system not that long ago... as well as huge numbers of other Canadians who are fed up with waiting months or years to get what they need in Canada, that come here pay for it and get it right away.

Canadians love their healthcare system.

That is a great idea too. The old system only worked for greedy capitalist.

That greedy capitalist system supported us being the world leader in medical advances and technology. Soon we'll all be like the UK.

Happy Birthday To Great Britain's Increasingly Scandalous National Health Service (http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottatlas/2013/07/05/happy-birthday-to-great-britains-increasingly-scandalous-national-health-service/)

You should read the article.

Hello again, Steve:

You should read the article.You should tell us what YOUR plan is instead of complaining.. I'm ready to hear your fix... But, if it's to do NOTHING, because we HAD/HAVE the best health care system in the world, then you're not to be taken seriously.

Excon

Hello again, Steve:
You should tell us what YOUR plan is instead of complaining.. I'm ready to hear your fix... But, if it's to do NOTHING, because we HAD/HAVE the best health care system in the world, then you're not to be taken seriously.

excon

We've been down this road already and I will continue to exercise my right to warn about the coming train wreck. It is you who ignore all the signs of the coming disaster who are not to be taken seriously.

How many train wrecks have you warned us about that did not come to fruition? See: The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

Train wreck isn't our words . We are just repeating the warnings by Democrat Senator Max Baucus ,who was the key author and proponent of Obamacare in the Senate .

Canadians love their healthcare system.

That's what the Canadian Pravda want you to think.

But based on the numbers of Canadians getting care on our side of the border... when they need actually need it... not 6 moths or a year or more later... thats obviously not a universal opinion..

Thats what the Canadian PravdaI don't even know what that is, I don't think it's a real thing.

How many train wrecks have you warned us about that did not come to fruition? See: The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

I've read Aesop's Fables, and you apparently can't distinguish between a bored kid trying to amuse himself and reporting the facts. See tom's last post for one.

You so totally missed the moral of the story.

I don't even know what that is, I don't think it's a real thing.

Doesn't matter what you believe or not... fact is you are manipulated to believe Socialism works. Reality is... its failed everywhere. And Socialized medicine is no different... if sucks everywhere compaired to a system you can get anything you want as long as you pay for it.

Because controlling costs by restricting needed services through rationing... always screws the people who need it the most.

Ok, enjoy your system... as reported by the American Pravda (right-wing blogs).

You so totally missed the moral of the story.

You so totally missed the point.

Keep reporting possible train wrecks ad nauseum, I'm sure the odd one will turn out to be true. Don't be surprised if people start to tune you out though.

Keep reporting possible train wrecks ad nauseum, I'm sure the odd one will turn out to be true. Don't be surprised if people start to tune you out though.

Like those "war on women" people or the sequester doomsday the wolf-crier-in-chief was preaching. Now there's some wolf crying for you, but you'd never try and hold them accountable would you?

Like those "war on women" peopleYep.

Ok, enjoy your system...as reported by the American Pravda (right-wing blogs).

I've been happy with it for over 52 years... I got anything I needed when I needed it... without ever once having to get on a waiting list. Including two surgeries.

Same here. No paperwork either.

Same here. No paperwork either.

Really... explain the waiting lists for rationing of certain procedures... like Hip replacements etc north of the border. One of the reasons Canadians are coming here and paying cash to have done... instead of having done in Canada.

You hear of the exceptions and think it is the norm.
Your insurance companies ration and deny as a business model, it's no better.

You hear of the exceptions and think it is the norm.
Your insurance companies ration and deny as a business model, it's no better.

Really... don't know of ANYONE whose insurance rations care... the worse ones might dictate where you go to get it... but not when... unless of course you are talking Organ transplants where everyone who needs one gets on the list..

My wife's got a bunch of Relatives in Montreal... (aunts, uncles.. cousins and their spouses).

don't know of ANYONE whose insurance rations careWell there are certainly a lot of questions in AMHD's Health and Wellness forums from Americans; barely any canucks in there asking questions... I guess they just go to their family doctor. :-)

Well there are certainly a lot of questions in AMHD's Health and Wellness forums from Americans; barely any canucks in there asking questions ... I guess they just go to their family doctor. :-)

Most of them don't have electricity... live in Yurts and have no internet...

Most of them work at Walmart and McDonald's.

Most of them work at Walmart and McDonald's.Actually he was trying to be funny to respond to my previous comment about how there aren't many canadians seeking medical help on this board.
Some people need to try to belittle others.

Nahhh it's the Obots themselves who admit they are in over their heads on this foolishly destructive law .


The president brags about how he's bringing smart, 21st century technology to government. But the news surrounding that talk provides a showcase for how inept his administration is when it comes to IT.

'We've made huge swaths of your government more efficient and more transparent, and more accountable than ever before," President Obama claimed Monday.

But the very next day, AP reported that a "computer system problem" has caused his administration to delay yet another piece of ObamaCare for at least a year.

The delay stems from a conflict between the law's premium penalties for smokers and its restrictions on insurance rates. While ObamaCare forbids insurance companies from adjusting rates based on health status, it does let insurers impose a significant premium penalty on smokers.

At the same time, the law forbids insurance companies from charging older people more than three times what they charge younger people. The problem is that the premiums for an older smoker can end up more than three times that of a young smoker once you include the penalties.

Late last month, Obama's tech-savvy regulators quietly told insurance companies that they simply couldn't figure out how to get their computers to square the two.

"The system currently cannot process a premium for a 65-year-old smoker that is more than three times the premium of a 21-year-old smoker," it explained.

And a fix could take at least a year.

Meanwhile, the administration tacitly admitted last week that its promise of real-time verification of a consumer's eligibility to buy subsidized coverage at an ObamaCare exchange wasn't exactly panning out.

Under ObamaCare, only those who don't have access to "affordable" insurance at work can buy coverage in an exchange, and only those below certain income levels are eligible for tax subsidies.

Rather than a high-tech instant check, the administration told states they could simply take the applicants' word for it when it comes to their employer-provided coverage, as well as their "projected annual household income," without the need for "further verification."

The reason Obama's regulators gave: There's still "a large amount of systems development on both the federal and state side, which cannot occur in time for Oct. 1, 2013."

The Government Accountability Office had warned in June that the administration was behind schedule getting the ObamaCare data hub up and running.

The administration also admitted earlier this year that — even with a nearly four-year lead time — it would have to put off a key piece of the small-business exchanges that was supposed to let employees at small firms pick from a range of plans best suited to their needs. "Operational challenges" was the excuse given for this delay.

To be fair, states aren't doing much better when it comes to "smarter" government. The Washington Post reported last week that Connecticut will delay almost a third of the functions they'd planned for its insurance exchange Web portal. Oregon, Nevada and other states are also cutting back on their ObamaCare websites.

But the stakes are much higher at the federal level, particularly when protecting personal data is involved. Here, too, Obama's "smart" government falls short.

Public.Resource.org revealed this week that the IRS inadvertently exposed the Social Security numbers of as many as 100,000 taxpayers on a government website. The group described the IRS' data security efforts as "unprofessional and amateur."

These are the same sort of government bureaucrats, mind you, who'll be in charge of securing vast amounts of the far more sensitive data ObamaCare will collect on millions of Americans once it goes into effect.

President Obama's Promises Of Smarter Government Don't Pan Out - Investors.com (http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/070913-663050-obama-fails-to-deliver-tech-savvy-government-webhed-heres-obamas-smart-government-at-work.htm#ixzz2YdXbpqUO)

You know the answer is simple, stop all this loading for smokers and age etc and just make one premium for everyone, the young will eventually get the benefits they are paying for and the smokers will die out anyway

You know the answer is simple, stop all this loading for smokers and age etc and just make one premium for everyone, the young will eventually get the benefits they are paying for and the smokers will die out anyway

First they have to kill the insurance companies.

I want to get back to the unconstitutional decision by the emperor to "suspend " implementation of the employer mandate . The President has no such authority under the constitution.
Article II Sec 3 is clear that the President shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed. It gives him certain disgression on how to execute the laws ;but NONE to unilaterally decide to delay implementation if implementation is outlined in the law. Kings have the power to over rule Parliments in some phony systems . English kings used to pull that stunt now and again until the Glorious Revolution of 1688. Then the Brits did this thing called a Bill of Rights . The 1st thing it addressed was the powers of the executive (monarch)... "the pretended power of suspending of laws, or the execution of laws, by regal authority, without consent of parliament, is illegal."

Fast forward to Nixon. He tried this gambit of not spending money Congress had allocate. The courts shot it down. Then in 1998 Congress decided that they would grant the President the power to line-item veto. But SCOTUS knocked that down (Clinton v City of New York) . Writing for the majority ,Justice John Paul Stevens wrote : "There is no provision in the Constitution that authorizes the president to enact, to amend, or to repeal statutes."

So where does the emperor get the cahones ?

This isn't the 1st time he pulled this stunt . He unilaterally decided to suspend deportations after the Dream Act was defeated (he called it prosecutorial discretion). He recrafted NCLB in his own image (he said he had the authority based on allowable waivers of requirements in the statute that did not exist) .

Edit... whether you agree with the move or not... (I think the employer mandate ;like the rest of the law ,should be repealed ). It is not his place to make that call.

You know the answer is simple, stop all this loading for smokers and age etc and just make one premium for everyone, the young will eventually get the benefits they are paying for and the smokers will die out anyway

That's just too simple for a righty to understand and an insurance company who wants MO MONEY, not steady money will never go along with it.

I guess you would like to pay higher rates for insurance even though you eat right.. take care of yourself and exercise... so the drunk, chain smoking 300 lb... meth head down the street can get lower rates on his?

If everyone pays the same rate, then when they raise yours, they raise his too. Your assumption that they give him a discount and not you I preposterous.

If everyone pays the same rate, then when they raise yours, they raise his too. Your assumption that they give him a discount and not you I preposterous.


YOU will be paying more... to subsidize his bad behaviour...

You do know how risk management works... Banks use it to determine credit worthiness... Insurance companies use it so responsible people don't have to pay for the irresponsible people.

Businesses use it when the hire people... and roll out products every day... the world revolves around about putting value on the safe choices and putting a cost on the unsafe choices.

So where does the emperor get the cahones ?

This isn't the 1st time he pulled this stunt . He unilaterally decided to suspend deportations after the Dream Act was defeated (he called it prosecutorial discretion). He recrafted NCLB in his own image (he said he had the authority based on allowable waivers of requirements in the statute that did not exist) .

Edit... whether you agree with the move or not... (I think the employer mandate ;like the rest of the law ,should be repealed ). It is not his place to make that call.

Sen Ted Cruz' dad had some words on that...


I grew up in Cuba under a strong military, oppressive dictatorship. So as a teenager I found myself involved in a revolution. I remember during that time a young charismatic leader rose up talking about hope and change. His name was Fidel Castro. And, you know, we all followed him. We all we thought he was going to be our liberator. As a result of being involved in the revolution, I was imprisoned, I was tortured, but by the grace of God I was able to leave Cuba on a student visa and came to the greatest country on the face of the earth.

...

I think the most ominous words I've ever heard was in the last two State of the Union addresses when our president said, "If Congress does not act, I will act unilaterally." Not much different than that that old bearded friend that I left behind in Cuba, governing by degree, by executive order, just like a dictator like Fidel Castro.

The speech:

DGURa1DfWEo

If Obama makes those calls isn't it legal for him to do so? If it were not then he would be summoned wouldn't he?
That guy's "speech" seems to be low on facts and high on echo-chamber cheering.

That guy has earned the right to say whatever the hell he wants.


So as a teenager I found myself involved in a revolution. I remember during that time a young charismatic leader rose up talking about hope and change. His name was Fidel Castro. And, you know, we all followed him. We all we thought he was going to be our liberator. As a result of being involved in the revolution, I was imprisoned, I was tortured, but by the grace of God I was able to leave Cuba on a student visa and came to the greatest country on the face of the earth.

And no, Obama does not have the right to act unilaterally on whatever the hell he wants.

Obama does not have the right to act unilaterally on whatever the hell he wantsThere must be checks and balances for that if it isn't legal. Why aren't the WH conservatives doing anything about it?

Bush lied, people died, when does the WH do anything about the wrongs. We sit back and get wronged constantly. It's the only consistent thing about gov. They are working into each others hands 1 plot =2 systems striving toward 1 outcome.

BS... Bush had the same intelligence briefings everyone in congress got and agreed with...

He didn't write them.. he only got them first... its obvious the people that pushed that story know little about how things work in the government. Yet they pretend otherwise.

Now However... Benghazi... Lies WERE drafted by the White house... and pushed on the American people and the world.

Someone with "standing " (see the SCOTUS decision on the Cal Prop 8 case) needs to challenge the emperor in court . It's a sure thing that the Holder Justice Dept won't stop him. The most likely people with standing would be the Congressional Dems.. Well they isn't going to challenge their master either . The House Repubics could conceivably challenge him with an impeachment charge . But even if they got that past the House ,the Senate would never convict . So we are left with little options regarding the unconstitutional acts of this
Imperator .

Wow, he's so awful yet Clinton gets a hearing for a blowjob. Methinks you rightys are blowing smoke.

BS...Bush had the same intelligence briefings everyone in congress got and agreed with....

He didn't write them..he only got them first....its obvious the people that pushed that story know little about how things work in the government. Yet they pretend otherwise.

Now However...Benghazi...Lies WERE drafted by the White house....and pushed on the American people and the world.

My point is that is the way it is DEM OR REP. The system is 1 but an illusion of 2 party to get the Americans arguing over what they are going to do regardless of which party is IN office at any given time..

My point is that is the way it is DEM OR REP. The system is 1 but an illusion of 2 party to get the Americans arguing over what they are going to do regardless of which party is IN office at any given time..

Thanks for clarifying that... seemed like the intent was different than that.

After hearing that line about 153,000,000 times... one tends to automatically think... oh crap not this again.

Kind of like this:

2K4pfiYK2IQ

Wow, he's so awful yet Clinton gets a hearing for a blowjob. Methinks you rightys are blowing smoke.

I think that Clintoon deserved impeachment.. they went after him for perjury and suborning perjury... which are serious crimes in the real world.. not for bjs .

But they should've gone after him for selling military secrets to the Chinese for campaign contributions.

Yet another union has lost its love for Obamcare (http://freebeacon.com/union-issues-warning-about-obamacare/)...


The International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers (IBEW) released a white paper on Thursday warning that Obamacare, as the law is commonly known, “threatens to harm our members by dismantling multiemployer health plans.”

The union also took out a full-page ad (http://www.acawhitepaper.org/IBEW%20fullpage%20fullcolor%20ad.pdf) in Capitol Hill newspaper Roll Call calling on the president to “keep your promise” by ensuring that, in the president’s words, “if you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan.” …

According to the union’s white paper, “the current multiemployer plan system provides affordable, high-quality health care coverage to millions of American workers, retirees, and families.”

New fees in the law, regulations on minimum-benefit requirements, and “the lack of multiemployer-specific administrative guidance” are threatening those insurance plans, IBEW claims.

“Because it does not recognize the unique nature of multiemployer plans, the Affordable Care Act contains provisions that could undermine this American success story and reduce the number of working families covered and lower the quality of their care,” the Roll Call ad warns.

They didn't really buy that promise thing did they?

Kalifornia is jumping to be the poster child for Obamacare and spending millions to promote it, using kids to sell it to their parents. Should be smooth sailing...


Fraud fear raised in California's health exchange - The Reporter (http://www.thereporter.com/rss/ci_23658245)

SACRAMENTO (AP) -- As California prepares to launch its health care exchange, consumer groups are worried the uninsured could fall RI victim to fraud, identity theft or other crimes at the hands of some of the very people who are supposed to help them enroll.

The exchange, known as Covered California, recently adopted rules for a network of more than 21,000 enrollment counselors who will provide consumers with in-person assistance as part of the federal Affordable Care Act. In some cases, they will have access to personal and financial information, from ID cards to medical histories.

But the state insurance commissioner and anti-fraud groups say the exchange is falling short in ensuring that the people hired as counselors are adequately screened and monitored.

Insurance Commissioner Dave Jones also said the exchange does not have a plan for investigating any complaints that might arise once the counselors start work. That means consumers who might fall prey to bogus health care products, identity theft and other abuses will have a hard time seeking justice if unscrupulous counselors get hold of their Social Security number, bank accounts, health records or other private information, he said."We can have a real disaster on our hands," Jones, a Democrat, said in an interview.

...

"Once they're in that position of trust, it's possible they will obtain information that will allow them to build the trust they have with the individual they're working with and potentially sell them all manner of bogus products, steal their identity, gain access to certain assets they might have," Jones said. "The list is virtually endless."

But they'll have to wear name badges. What could go wrong?

Hello again, Steve:

What's wrong with using the public to smooth the way for a big change in the law?? Nothing, that's what...

But, if you want to see something WRONG, it's YOUR side for threatening the NFL for agreeing to smooth the way...

Look, if you don't like the law, try to repeal it for the 45th time, and good luck with that. It's the law of the land... Get over it.

excon

"Smooth the way" is liberaleze for force feeding propaganda down everyone's throats.

Hello again, Steve:

What's wrong with using the public to smooth the way for a big change in the law?? Nothing, that's what...

But, if you want to see something WRONG, it's YOUR side for threatening the NFL for agreeing to smooth the way...

Look, if you don't like the law, try to repeal it for the 45th time, and good luck with that. It's the law of the land... Get over it.

Excon

Obviously there is no conceivable disaster that would get your attention. You passed right over the point of the article which was the open invitation for defrauding the public.

As for your NFL "threat" you once again have it backwards. Republicans are not in control of anything and it is your beloved Obama administration that's become famous for their heavy hand toward businesses that don't toe the line, so coal industry for starters. From your "threat" :


"We have long been concerned by the Obama Administration’s record of using the threat of policy retaliation to solicit support for its policies or to silence its critics. Should the administration or its allies suggest that there will be any policy consequence for your decision not to participate in their outreach efforts, we urge you to resist any such pressure and to contact us immediately so that we may conduct appropriate oversight."


Meanwhile, I take it you're OK with not only the "honor system" for subsidies but opening the door to stealing poor people's identities and therefore their lives.

The White House threatened to veto any legislation delaying the employer mandate he's already delayed. The House passed it anyway with 35 Dems joining.

You just can't make this stuff up...

Not to worry. Reid's do nothing Senate will not take up the bill even as newly converted Tea Party member James Hoffa Jr . Demands that Congress do something about the disastrous Obamacare bill they passed .

In case you haven't read it or posted it yet... here is Hoffa's letter to Reid and Madame Mimi (this may explain why some Dems signed on to the bill the House passed )





Dear Leader Reid and Leader Pelosi:
When you and the President sought our support for the Affordable Care Act (ACA), you pledged that if we liked the health plans we have now, we could keep them. Sadly, that promise is under threat. Right now, unless you and the Obama Administration enact an equitable fix, the ACA will shatter not only our hard-earned health benefits, but destroy the foundation of the 40 hour work week that is the backbone of the American middle class.
Like millions of other Americans, our members are front-line workers in the American economy. We have been strong supporters of the notion that all Americans should have access to quality, affordable health care. We have also been strong supporters of you. In campaign after campaign we have put boots on the ground, gone door-to-door to get out the vote, run phone banks and raised money to secure this vision.
Now this vision has come back to haunt us.
Since the ACA was enacted, we have been bringing our deep concerns to the Administration, seeking reasonable regulatory interpretations to the statute that would help prevent the destruction of non-profit health plans. As you both know first-hand, our persuasive arguments have been disregarded and met with a stone wall by the White House and the pertinent agencies. This is especially stinging because other stakeholders have repeatedly received successful interpretations for their respective grievances. Most disconcerting of course is last week's huge accommodation for the employer community—extending the statutorily mandated “December 31, 2013” deadline for the employer mandate and penalties.
Time is running out: Congress wrote this law; we voted for you. We have a problem; you need to fix it. The unintended consequences of the ACA are severe. Perverse incentives are already creating nightmare scenarios:
First, the law creates an incentive for employers to keep employees' work hours below 30 hours a week. Numerous employers have begun to cut workers' hours to avoid this obligation, and many of them are doing so openly. The impact is two-fold: fewer hours means less pay while also losing our current health benefits.

Second, millions of Americans are covered by non-profit health insurance plans like the ones in which most of our members participate. These non-profit plans are governed jointly by unions and companies under the Taft-Hartley Act. Our health plans have been built over decades by working men and women. Under the ACA as interpreted by the Administration, our employees will treated differently and not be eligible for subsidies afforded other citizens. As such, many employees will be relegated to second-class status and shut out of the help the law offers to for-profit insurance plans.
And finally, even though non-profit plans like ours won't receive the same subsidies as for-profit plans, they'll be taxed to pay for those subsidies. Taken together, these restrictions will make non-profit plans like ours unsustainable, and will undermine the health-care market of viable alternatives to the big health insurance companies.
On behalf of the millions of working men and women we represent and the families they support, we can no longer stand silent in the face of elements of the Affordable Care Act that will destroy the very health and wellbeing of our members along with millions of other hardworking Americans.
We believe that there are common-sense corrections that can be made within the existing statute that will allow our members to continue to keep their current health plans and benefits just as you and the President pledged. Unless changes are made, however, that promise is hollow.
We continue to stand behind real health care reform, but the law as it stands will hurt millions of Americans including the members of our respective unions.
We are looking to you to make sure these changes are made.
James P. Hoffa
General President
International Brotherhood of Teamsters
Joseph Hansen
International President
UFCW
D. Taylor
President
UNITE-HERE

Hello again,

You righty's have NO credibility on Obamacare... You LIED about it from the beginning, and you're LYING about it now. I wouldn't believe ANYTHING you have to say about it if your tongue came notarized. (I stole that from Judge Judy.)

It's coming out in 46 days. It'll be slick.

excon

And yet all our warnings are coming true. Hoffa sounds like one of them tri-cornered hat wearing SOBs (his words ) now that he got to read the bill Madame Mimi said would have to be passed to find out what's in it.
You in particular should be proud of it because it fit into the plan I heard from many people ,including my own REP Eliot Engle ,who said the goal is complete government control ,top down European single payer system. Well Obamacare will lead to that indeed . I don't know why the emperor defends it like he did today for anything else but what it is meant to accomplish .
Well done!! The American healthcare system had to be utterly destroyed for the plan to work and he's well on the way of achieving that goal.

LOL, always cracks me up when the "we have to pass it know what's in it" side accuses others of lying about Obamacare.

If anything, the number of unions complaining that this is not what they were promised and the number of companies not hiring or cutting hours (http://freebeacon.com/maryland-employers-cutting-hours-due-to-obamacare/) reveals who is lying and who's being vindicated.

Hoffa says that the 40 hr week is the backbone of the labor movement... welcome to the new normal... 30 hr part time no benefits and a slew of small business "49ers " . And the Dems is the party that is labor friendly. Lololololol .

This is more of a non issue than free contraceptives. Union scale workers are not to be confused with retail and fat food union workers or ones with no union. The unions are ready to work on what's best for them and their members, and so is the white house, unlike the right who holler train wreck.

Never mind the good stuff already, or the projection of saving in the larger urban areas, or the rebates that are going out to policy holders, or the tax deductions for buying your own non employee insurance. You guys just have a lot of noise and no do for something that's important to many, even yourselves.

You just refuse to make simple common sense adjustments along the way to keep things working smoothly.

Never mind the good stuff already, or the projection of saving in the larger urban areas, or the rebates that are going out to policy holders, or the tax deductions for buying your own non employee insurance. You guys just have a lot of noise and no do for something that's important to many, even yourselves.


BS it is a disaster everywhere I look . The only place that comes close is in NY ;and that's because NY already had an oppressive regulatory environment driving up the costs before Obamacare came along.

So of course the NY Slimes holds this up as an example that the system works..
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/17/health/health-plan-cost-for-new-yorkers-set-to-fall-50.html?ref=politics&_r=0

Well yeah ,we are going from one soviet style system to another . 1 these rates ONLY effect those who purchase insurance on their own... (about 17 thousand 1 %ers statewide who could actually afford it in NY ) . So the adjustment will make individual insurance less expensive for those who can afford it while laying down massive increases on the rest of us who don't qualify for subsidies . Thanks a lot !


LOL, always cracks me up when the "we have to pass it know what's in it"
Guess it went from unread to unenforced .

If you had made simple common sense adjustments instead of ramming this down our throats against overwhelming opposition we wouldn't be here constantly reporting on how ed up your law is and the admin would be boasting non-stop of how awesome it is instead of delaying his "train wreck" and assuring us they're "on schedule."

From the department of lowered Obamacare expectations: This video. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/07/15/from-the-department-of-lowered-obamacare-expectations-this-video/)

The train wreck is right on schedule.

Exactly right.

Just like a broken clock, you guys can be RIGHT twice a day, but for the other 22 hours your dead wrong.

Just like a broken clock, you guys can be RIGHT twice a day, but for the other 22 hours your dead wrong.

Dude, you do realize that we're just reporting what businesses are doing and what the administration and even the architect of the law themselves have been saying so you're just calling your own guys liars.

Reporting huh? Deceptive embellishment is hardly reporting, nor is it in any way unbiased or informed and your sources are not my guys.

I respectfully disagree with your premise and conclusion based on that premise.

In other words, to you reporting the facts and repeating what admin officials have said is deceptive (if it doesn't fit your narrative). From my last link (http://freebeacon.com/maryland-employers-cutting-hours-due-to-obamacare/):


Large employers have struggled to adapt to Obamacare provisions and are cutting hours, and insurance experts worry it will create friction between employers and employees, WMDT reports:


By 2015, employers with at least 50 full-time, 30-hour employees will be required to provide health insurance or pay a hefty $3,000 fine for each uninsured employee. Insurance experts worry it could create some friction between the employer and employee.

“We’ve seen employers starting to cut down hours to 28, 25 hours such that they will not be subject to penalty for that employee,” Keen said.

That’s exactly what Katie Frantz says has happened to her.

“The job that I currently have is part-time. And they don’t want to let me be full-time because they don’t want to pay me benefits. And I don’t even need the benefits because I have it through my husband. It’s just very annoying,” she said.

Some employers have discovered they would be better off financially paying the penalty rather than providing insurance.

Feel free to highlight the "deceptive embellishment".

I gave a direct c/p of Hoffa's letter and I can reproduce the video of Max Baucus ,one of the key authors in the Senate calling it a train wreck . I don't need to "embellish " .They are doing it for me.

Can small businesses use the ACA's health insurance exchanges? (http://www.healthinsurance.org/faqs/can-small-businesses-use-the-health-insurance-exchanges/)


Yes, there will be a health insurance exchange for small businesses, called the Small Business Health Options Program (SHOP).

A small business is defined in the law as having between one and 100 employees, though the exchanges may start at one to 50 employees, depending on the state. States can also choose to combine their individual and small business exchanges to create a bigger pool, spreading the risk to more people and reducing premiums.

Small businesses will also get help paying the premiums for covering their employees through a new tax credit.

Read more FAQs about health reform.
- See more at: Can small businesses use the ACA's health insurance exchanges? (http://www.healthinsurance.org/faqs/can-small-businesses-use-the-health-insurance-exchanges/#sthash.9OoJ58zS.dpuf)

Health Care Reform: 11 Business Opportunities & Ways to Profit | Inc.com (http://www.inc.com/gene-marks/health-care-reform-business-opportunities-11-ways-to-profit.html)

ACA is saving money on health care that small businesses can use for hiring | MedCity News (http://medcitynews.com/2012/05/aca-is-saving-money-on-health-care-that-small-businesses-can-use-for-hiring/)

Can small businesses use the ACA’s health insurance exchanges? (http://www.healthinsurance.org/faqs/can-small-businesses-use-the-health-insurance-exchanges/)



Read more FAQs about health reform.
- See more at: Can small businesses use the ACA’s health insurance exchanges? (http://www.healthinsurance.org/faqs/can-small-businesses-use-the-health-insurance-exchanges/#sthash.9OoJ58zS.dpuf)

Health Care Reform: 11 Business Opportunities & Ways to Profit | Inc.com (http://www.inc.com/gene-marks/health-care-reform-business-opportunities-11-ways-to-profit.html)

ACA is saving money on health care that small businesses can use for hiring | MedCity News (http://medcitynews.com/2012/05/aca-is-saving-money-on-health-care-that-small-businesses-can-use-for-hiring/)

In other words you can't show us the "deceptive embellishment" so time for a diversion.

You said it's a train wreck and I showed you despite the noise and creative use of adjectives, there are some who will quietly make adjustments and profit.

Show me a business man who cannot leverage his employees for a better deal for his health care costs, and I will show you a bad business man. Or one that won't pay his employees enough to forego benefits, which he leveraged to save himself money in the first place.

You said its a train wreck and I showed you despite the noise and creative use of adjectives, there are some who will quietly make adjustments and profit.

Show me a business man who cannot leverage his employees for a better deal for his health care costs, and I will show you a bad business man. Or one that won't pay his employees enough to forego benefits, which he leveraged to save himself money in the first place.

And we're back to this. Dude, you said we're embellishing. Where did we embellish? We didn't, we reported reality, what's happening on the streets including from a number of unions that went to bat for Obamacare that say it sucks. People are losing jobs or getting cut to part time, that's fact. Your posturing about how stupid businessmen are isn't going to matter to that single mom that just got cut back to 30 hours.

Lol ,your fearless leader just gave businesses the opportunity to dump the benefits penalty free. But that was probably part of the behind doors negotiations anyway. That way the employees ;who now have not been granted the same consideration of a delay in implementation of the individual mandate will be forced onto the state exchanges... (always keep your eyes on the prize of a totally government run system )... or pay the penalty (ooops I mean tax).

Meanwhile, moderate Democrats are turning sour on Zerocare (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/07/23/moderate-democrats-are-quitting-on-obamacare/), and before the "honey pot" for scammers (http://www.cnbc.com/id/100901876)is even set out...

6siyK6NyLNg

It's come to this, you just can't make this stuff up and all my other favorite sayings and then some...


IRS employee union: We don’t want Obamacare (http://washingtonexaminer.com/irs-employee-union-we-dont-want-obamacare/article/2533520?custom_click=rss)

IRS employees have a prominent role in Obamacare, but their union wants no part of the law.

National Taxpayer Employee Union officials are urging members to write their congressional representatives in opposition to receiving coverage through President Obama’s health care law.

The union leaders are providing members with a form letter to send to the congressmen that says “I am very concerned about legislation that has been introduced by Congressman Dave Camp to push federal employees out of the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program and into the insurance exchanges established under the Affordable Care Act.”

Like most other federal workers, IRS employees currently get their health insurance through the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program, which also covers members of Congress.

House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp offered the bill in response to reports of congressional negotiations that would exempt lawmakers and their staff from Obamacare.

“Camp has long believed every American ought to be exempt from the law, which is why he supports full repeal,” Camp spokeswoman Allie Walkersaid.

“If the Obamacare exchanges are good enough for the hardworking Americans and small businesses the law claims to help, then they should be good enough for the president, vice president, Congress and federal employees,” she also said.

“The NTEU represents Internal Revenue Service employees who have the responsibility to enforce much of the health insurance law, especially in terms of collecting the taxes and distributing subsidies that finance the whole system,” said Paul Kersey, director of Labor Policy at the Illinois Policy Institute.

“IRS agents will also collect data and apply penalties for those who fail to comply with many of Obamacare’s requirements,” Kersey said.

I guess they like what they got and don't want a repub to come along and take it away. But that's what repubs do don't they?

I like what I got.for medical care... and its not the Republicans that are trying to take it away... its the Democrats that are doing that.

You aren't entitled to your own facts,


House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp offered the bill in response to reports of congressional negotiations that would exempt lawmakers and their staff from Obamacare.

The Squeal and Repeal crowd is always trying to scare people. Keep squealing because we ain't repealing. But some of your brainy ideas will get struck down in the court of law.

I guess they like what they got and don't want a repub to come along and take it away. But that's what repubs do don't they?

I liked what I had, too, but interesting that the people charged with enforcing it don't even want what you forced on the rest of us against our will. Too damn bad, if I have to live with so should they.

Hello again, Steve:

I don't know.. You were all pissed off at Obama for not implementing parts of Obamacare... Now, you want to do the same thing, only bigger. Why is he bad and you're good?

excon

You aren't entitled to your own facts,



The Squeal and Repeal crowd is always trying to scare people. Keep squealing because we ain't repealing. But some of your brainy ideas will get struck down in the court of law.

Maybe some defunding is in order then . But I know that the Repubics have spines of jelly fish and won't .

Obamacare call center workers to be denied health care benefits...

Concord: Half of Affordable Care Act call center jobs will be part-time - ContraCostaTimes.com (http://www.contracostatimes.com/rss/ci_23733819)

maybe some defunding is in order then . But I know that the Repubics have spines of jelly fish and won't .

Not all republican are TParty fanatics. And not all TParty fanatics think that corporate slavery is a good idea either.

Especially when the defunding like the sequester surely will affect the lives of woman children and working poor people a lot greater than upper middle class and rich folk. Poor TParty types will find themselves in the same place as the other poor folks and they won't like it. Willing to bet that even rural conservatives want the same benefits of the ACA, and higher wages in a growing service industry that keeps people from rising above where they are stuck at.

Even the TParty working poor will be tired of hearing the boss holler about cutting hours and benefits while he extracts greater profits. So defund benefits from the very youth you will have to depend on to keep to keep your conservative enclaves thriving.

So, there won't be any health care rationing (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/aug/25/rationing-scare-words-health-care-debate/) with Obamacare, eh?


“No one here is talking about rationing,” said Peter Orszag, director of the White House Office for Management and Budget. “What we are talking about, look at the source of that 30 percent or so in potential efficiency gains in the health system are from unnecessary procedures, unnecessary days in hospital, unnecessary applications of technology and what have you.”

- See more at: White House Vows No Rationing in Health Care Reform Package | CNS News (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/white-house-vows-no-rationing-health-care-reform-package#sthash.ThYO0vWf.dpuf)

Seems the Deaniac has changed his mind (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324110404578628542498014414.html) about it...


One major problem is the so-called Independent Payment Advisory Board. The IPAB is essentially a health-care rationing body. By setting doctor reimbursement rates for Medicare and determining which procedures and drugs will be covered and at what price, the IPAB will be able to stop certain treatments its members do not favor by simply setting rates to levels where no doctor or hospital will perform them.

I know, we already have rationing, "The Squeal and Repeal crowd is always trying to scare people" blah, blah, blah...

So, there won't be any health care rationing (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/aug/25/rationing-scare-words-health-care-debate/) with Obamacare, eh?



Seems the Deaniac has changed his mind (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324110404578628542498014414.html) about it...



I know, we already have rationing, "The Squeal and Repeal crowd is always trying to scare people" blah, blah, blah...

Sarah Palin... right again. On Facebook she comments "Wish I had been wrong about this one..."

Don't Fund Obamacare (http://www.dontfundobamacare.com/)

And we are back to the original question... if this was so freaking great why are ALL of the people that wrote it, or are ramming it down our throats... or trying t convince us how great it is... are exempt from it themselves... by their own action.

Yes there is one rule for the shepards and another for the sheep

Count the IRS chief as among those who don't want the health care plan (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/irs-chief-i-want-keep-my-health-care-plan-not-switch-obamacare_742429.html) they're charged to enforce...


"Mr. Werfel, last week your employees who are a member of the National Treasury Employee's Union sent a form letter for union members to send in to ask they be exempt from the exchanges," a congressman asked. "Why are your employees trying to exempt themselves from the very law that you're tasked to enforce?"

"I don't want to speak for the NTEU, but I'll offer a perspective as a federal employee myself and a federal employee at the IRS," said the IRS chief. "And that is, we have right now as employees of the government, of the IRS, affordable health care coverage. I think the ACA was designed to provide an option or an alternative for individuals that do not. And all else being equal, I think if you're an individual who is satisfied with your health care coverage, you're probably in a better position to stick with that coverage than go through the change of moving into a different environment and going through that process. So I think for a federal employee, I think more likely, and I would -- can speak for myself, I would prefer to stay with the current policy that I'm pleased with rather than go through a change if I don't need to go through that change."

UPDATE: Texas senator John Cornyn responds:

“Count the head of the IRS among the growing list of folks that includes Big Labor and the law’s chief architect who are deeply skeptical of the President’s signature achievement and don’t want any part of

I know, "the Squeal and Repeal crowd is always trying to scare people" blah, blah, blah...

Come on, if your own people are running from what you forced on us isn't that your first clue it sucks?

Come on, if your own people are running from what you forced on us isn't that your first clue it sucks?
We were told from the get-go that, if we have a health care plan we like, we can keep it. If we have no plan or don't like the one we have, the ACA will give us choices. My son has BC/BS which jacks up the cost $25 or more every quarter. He will be looking for a better deal.

The "if you like it you can keep it" thing has been debunked so many times I'd be embarrassed to try to and pull that one over on someone. But nice to see you don't feel the people in charge of this train wreck should have to live with it, too.

The "if you like it you can keep it" thing has been debunked
My son will be able to keep his private-pay BC/BS if he wants to. There will be no obligation to switch.

I don't know who you are listening to (oh, wait! Yes, I do!).

My son will be able to keep his private-pay BC/BS if he wants to. There will be no obligation to switch.

I don't know who you are listening to (oh, wait! Yes, I do!).

Please, you haven't got a clue. This is what's on all day at work (http://1009theeagle.com/) and I don't watch O'Reilly or Hannity, but I've made that clear a number of times. If on the other hand you mean the Obama administration then yes, they admitted so in their response to the complaint in Newland v. Sebelius.


“Even under grandfathering, more and more group health plans will be subject to the regulations as time goes on. Defendants estimate that, as a practical matter, a majority of group health plans will lose their grandfather status by 2013.”

That means most plans will be changing if they haven't already whether you like it or not. And that doesn't even take into account all the employers that are cutting hours to part time or otherwise will end up throwing employees to the exchanges and you even acknowledged another issue largely thanks to Obamacare, getting priced out of your coverage.

The facts are clear, most people will NOT be able to keep their existing plans but that's not the point here. The point is why shouldn't the people that foisted it on us and have to enforce have to live with it themselves? Are they better than us?

The emperor has spoken and apparently has unilaterally taken it upon himself to provide an Obamacare fix for Capitol hill.


Hill gets Obamacare fix

Lawmakers and staff can breathe easy — their health care tab is not going to soar next year.

The Office of Personnel Management, under heavy pressure from Capitol Hill, will issue a ruling that says the government can continue to make a contribution to the health care premiums of members of Congress and their aides, according to several Hill sources.

A White House official confirmed the deal and said the proposed regulations will be issued next week.

Just Wednesday, POLITICO reported that President Barack Obama told Democratic senators that he was personally involved in finding a solution.

The problem was rooted in the original text of the Affordable Care Act. Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) inserted a provision which said members of Congress and their aides must be covered by plans “created” by the law or “offered through an exchange.” Until now, OPM had not said if the Federal Employee Health Benefits Program could contribute premium payments toward plans on the exchange. If payments stopped, lawmakers and aides would have faced thousands of dollars in additional premium payments each year. Under the old system, the government contributed nearly 75 percent of premium payments.

Obama’s involvement in solving this impasse was unusual, to say the least. But it came after serious griping from both sides of the aisle about the potential of a “brain drain.” The fear, as told by sources in both parties, was that aides would head for more lucrative jobs, spooked by the potential for spiking health premiums.

Read more: Hill gets Obamacare fix - John Bresnahan and Jake Sherman - POLITICO.com (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/capitol-hill-obamacare-crisis-solved-95100.html#ixzz2ap7HqFXc)

Maybe if we had some brain drain we would never had gotten this terrible law. And once again the people foisting this train wreck on us continue to run from it and demand special privileges.

WG,
I am not arguing your point, just trying to be educated here.
Don't those private pay individual plans have to meet the requirements of obamacare, such as no pre-existing condition clauses, no yearly/lifetime maximum payouts, etc?
How will insurance companies make all their individual plan rules fit into obamacare regulations when they are providing for example $ 5,000 deductible policies and not covering the items that obamacare requires be covered? And how will they do it still keeping the premiums the same. Insures in my neck of the woods have already announced that private pay policy premiums will rise 50 to 100%.
This Forbes article touches on some of that:
Democrats' New Argument: It's A Good Thing That Obamacare Doubles Individual Health Insurance Premiums - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/06/03/democrats-new-argument-its-a-good-thing-that-obamacare-doubles-individual-health-insurance-premiums/)
I am John Kerry-like. I was for it before I was against it. I am a retired highway engineer. We always tried to make sure we knew how high the bridge needed to be and what load it needed to carry, before we started building it. Obamacare was a shot in the dark(?), or was it designed to fail and morph into universal healthcare when the chaos gets out of control?

WG,
I am not arguing your point, just trying to be educated here.
I hated econ class in college, so don't take my word for this -- but it seems the market will eventually correct itself once the millions of new insureds will be buying policies (and they will be looking for the most bang for their buck which will force competition among the insurance companies and eventually lower prices).

they will be looking for the most bang for their buck which will force competition among the insurance companies and eventually lower prices

You know and I know that is not the intent . The intent is to drive private insurance out of business so we are all forced into state and eventually Federal "exchanges " .

I have been recommending for some time now the article by Steven Brill in Time magazine, for some valuable insight into how the insurance companies and private businesses actually price the cost of health care. A must read for understanding why the costs go up.

I compare it to why big corporations don't raise the wage of it workers. I too am a retired engineer, and have already been informed my insurance premium will not rise and they have already met the standard that the ACA mandate. That was 2 year ago, so my take is that some are making progress in implementing the upgrade in standards the new law brings, and some have not, choosing to fight it.

I am faced with the option of making Medicare a secondary insurance in a few year, and that a good dilemma to be in. As for keeping what you have, they may not comply now, but soon will have to and for the first time in history you can shop and compare where before there were no option to the rising costs.

I have to tell you the best thing is an individual investigation to know what your own options are that best suit YOUR own situation. While the speculation is wild on the business side of things, its you that has to make a choice if what you have is worth what you pay for, or if you can do better.

A question I have asked and never got an answer to is If employers cannot offer the benefit of health insurance do they have to pay the employee the cash rather than a benefit?

you know and I know that is not the intent . The intent is to drive private insurance out of business so we are all forced into state and eventually Federal "exchanges " .

Medicare for all... YESSSSSSSSSSS!

I don't know anyone on medicare that's happy with it NOW. In fact they hate it.

I don't know anyone on medicare thats happy with it NOW. In fact they hate it.
We LOVE Medicare at my house. My husband had an $82,000 stent surgery a couple of years ago, and we paid only $1200 of that. There's no more copay for a doctor visit which are all paid for by Medicare.

We LOVE Medicare at my house. My husband had an $82,000 stent surgery a couple of years ago, and we paid only $1200 of that. There's no more copay for a doctor visit which are all paid for by Medicare.

All my retired relatives HATE it... including my mother that always had decent insurance through General Motors. At least until the Bankruptcy took it away from only the BLUE collar retirees... now all she's got is Medicare and has nothing but problems getting anything taken care of.

now all she's got is Medicare and has nothing but problems getting anything taken care of.
She shouldn't have problems. Why is she? What's going on? (My husband was blue collar too and lost his retirement coverage through his company.)

She shouldn't have problems. Why is she? What's going on? (My husband was blue collar too and lost his retirement coverage through his company.)

You name it and she's got problems... half of it is even getting a doctor to even see her... and the few places that will have the worst reputations (and this is also the opinion of a registered nurse familiar with all of them).. and the places that do only half do what's required... or do unrelated things... and two things my mom is't... and that's either a drama queen or someone that's not capable of being very clear and direct with explaining her issue..

places that do only half do whats required...or do unrelated things...
Is she still going to her regular doctor that she was seeing before she was eligible?

Is she still going to her regular doctor that she was seeing before she was eligible?

No she had to change doctors... She told me why but I don't remember for sure.. it wasn't by choice though.

And its not an area wher she has a choice of only one hospital... there are at least 7 or 8 within 60 miles... but some of them have horrific reputations... and the only two decent ones that are even reasonible practical (I.E. within 45 minutes drive) the one is really difficult to get anyone to see her.. and the other requires a drive to West Virginia through the mountains in the area with the highest snowfall ammounts in that part of the country... a real problem in winter months.

ANd yes I do know that area well... I grew up there and traveled it for over 30 years... they get snow and a lot of it that none of the weather stations even predict will happen. Local micro climate in a small part of one county.

And being in her mid 70's that's no small thing to be traveling alone during.

And being in her mid 70's thats no small thing to be traveling alone during.
I understand (born and raised in NC, and grew up in the western part, so I get it).

Around here, even if a doctor doesn't accept Medicare "assignment," the patient will get at least some of the cost paid for by Medicare. And there are lots of doctor and hospital choices within spitting distance of me. Maybe I should adopt your mother. :) In a different location, she would probably have an entirely different experience. Medicare isn't her problem -- it's the doctors and hospitals.

(My now-deceased uncle for whom I had POA had several serious surgeries and at least three 6-8 week psych unit confinements after he turned 65, and all was paid for by Medicare. His private-pay BC/BS kicked in a couple of dollars now and then. I know because I kept detailed charts of all this.)

Bringing her down here isn't an option as she's still completely self sufficient.. and all her life long friends and family are in that area... that plus my wife and her don't get along too well for very long at a time.

Bringing her down here isn't an option as she's still completely self sufficient..and all her life long friends and family are in that area....that plus my wife and her don't get along too well for very long at a time.
We just went through that with my husband's mom who refused to leave her home near us to go into assisted living (her first choice was an inexpensive place in SE Wisconsin near her summer cottage). She died last October at 93 as feisty as ever. (P.S. Medicare did take good care of her.)

Medicare for all..........................YESSSSSSSSSSS!!
http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/files/2011/10/from-FREEDOM-to-FREEBIES-alt-small1.png

freebies
Not at all. I've been paying into it since my first job at 15.

The only reason Medicare doesn't and cannot go bankrupt is due to statutory law. Congress has to raise taxes or reduce benefits to keeps it solvent as it is .What you have been paying into is a Ponzi scheme that you may be benefitting from ;but future generations (and I'm talking a few years... not decades ) will be strapped with the bills of the baby boomers.

What's free about Medicare, or health care? I pay for mine, so does my mom STILL! Or is that your TParty, right wing impersonation?

What's free about Medicare, or health care? I pay for mine, so does my mom STILL! Or is that your TParty, right wing impersonation?

Yeah keep believing that .

Hello again, tom:

yeah keep believing that .I believe Mitt Romney when he posited that we could save 5 points off our GDP if we adopted some sort of universal health care... He was positively giddy over the savings Israel has with the SAME system..

Excon

the only reason Medicare doesn't and cannot go bankrupt is due to statutory law. Congress has to raise taxes or reduce benefits to keeps it solvent as it is .What you have been paying into is a Ponzi scheme that you may be benefitting from ;but future generations (and I'm talking a few years ...not decades ) will be strapped with the bills of the baby boomers.

We already had that argument during the last election and Romney lost. As you said there are alternative to bankruptcy, and if the wingers in the congress would quite Squealing and Repealing, we may get a fair path to solvency.

It's not a hard a you guy think it is. Just raising the maximum payroll deduction would be a start. Future generation can have their own idea.

We already had that argument during the last election and Romney lost. As you said there are alternative to bankruptcy, and if the wingers in the congress would quite Squealing and Repealing, we may get a fair path to solvency.

It's not a hard a you guy think it is. Just raising the maximum payroll deduction would be a start. Future generation can have their own idea.
I get it... more soak the rich solutions . You turn 'insurance ' into just another welfare program. Typical . Think I'll get my 3 Obamaphones so I can call my contacts in Jamaica to find out what food stamp purchases are needed to smuggle into Montego Bay.

Hello again, tom:
I believe Mitt Romney when he posited that we could save 5 points off our GDP if we adopted some sort of universal health care... He was positively giddy over the savings Israel has with the SAME system..

excon

So that's why you voted for him ?

We already had that argument during the last election and Romney lost. As you said there are alternative to bankruptcy, and if the wingers in the congress would quite Squealing and Repealing, we may get a fair path to solvency.

It's not a hard a you guy think it is. Just raising the maximum payroll deduction would be a start. Future generation can have their own idea.
A fair path to solvency like inviting more illegals into the system ? But what you fail to say is that Obamacare is already gutting Medicare benefits... Your emperor is also capping reimbursements so fewer doctors are taking Medicare patients. So you have both punitive confiscation in your sights and severe rationing .No wonder Howard Dean speaks of the evils of the death panel .

REPEAL

Obamacare- the poor can go to the emergency room or die.

Voting right- So your guy can win.

Abortion- And contraceptive.

Education- elite and rich people only, no unions. Beside private school can do it better at a bigger profit and no worries about liberals poisoning young minds.

Regulation- Companies can regulate themselves.

Gay marriage- No kids, (and no abortions)

The government- of the people, by the people as in the constitution in order to form a more perfect union, and turn everything over to the rich guy to run.

Civil rights- rich, angry old white guys only. All others subject to be shot in self defense.

Freedom of speech- See above, hollering only. Truth is optional. (not to be confused with speechless, an oxymoron since righy's never shut up!)

Medicare-why waste money on old people who are going to die anyway?

What you thought liberals don't know what conservative are about?

Gee... Tal has been hitting the koolaid cooler pretty heavy. Because that's the biggest load of crap I've seen since I last Read a Washington Post newspaper.

Okay how about you guy's Plan B, shut the government down or REPEAL Obamacare. What are you guy drinking?

What we isn't drinking is having the taxpayers who are already being hit hard by this bill that was passed by a lame duck Congress on it's way out of town in the dead of night, subsidizing 75% of the Congress and their staff's health care plans under this cr@p sandwich plan . How dare they expect it when they know the people are hurting because they bear the burden of this oppression!! They passed this bill and expect to be exempt?? And they don't have the cahones to debate and pass their exemption?? And rely on the emperor to do it by decree?? And now the whole group of them will skulk out of Washington for the rest of the summer?? Time to sharpen the pitch forks .

So caps, cancellations, and pre existing conditions along with rising premiums to cover emergency room visits by the uninsured was better?

Spare me... the answer is YES ,the old system was superior to the disaster unfolding .If this new system was sooooooo much better ,then Congress and their staff ,and the IRS should be more than willing to live under the provisions.

Hello again,

I don't know what the law says. And, THAT'S the problem.. Nobody does. As long as there's this KNOWLEDGE gap, the Republicans are going to fill it with death panels and stuff, and that's exactly what they're doing.

Now, I BELIEVE the law isn't the disaster the right wing portrays it. And, because they've lied about it since the get go, you can't believe them now. But, it absolutely IS a public relations disaster.. Fellows like tal and me OUGHT to be able to tell you exactly HOW and WHY Obamacare is better than what we had, but we can't. Leastways, I can't.

excon

THen why did congress exempt themselves and their staffs from it... why are so many labor unions been given exemptions?

If it was so great EVERYONE would want to be in it... and in fact Most Democrats don't even want to be in it.

Well Ex if you don't know, maybe, just maybe, it isn't, at least not for those already insured. How come this thing is so complex anyway?

One thing we know for sure you guy haven't read the thing even after the link was provided to you, yet you still holler. It for the uninsured, and sets rule for all insurance provider.

Now if you want to listen to insurers and providers whining about their profits, and employers whining and crying about taking care of their employees, and bureaucrats whining about losing what they have go ahead. Sure we have a few glitches to work out, but they are easier fixes than you think, and you don't even have to cut minimum wage workers hours, either.

How do I know for sure the right wing is completely wrong? Because I read the thing and the winger still haven't. They rather holler like I've been saying for a long time now.

I challenge you guy to read it and have an honest discussion and drop this Squeal and Repeal nonsense you guy are stuck on. Reasonable questions only, no whining and hollering. Rock thrown will be thrown back.

There is over 5,000 pages with every imaginable type of worthless crap in it...

It expect it reflects those who drew it up, aspirational documents always do

2,407 on PDF.

It expect it reflects those who drew it up, aspirational documents always do

No the fact they cheated to ram it through without a proper vote reflects the people that drew it up... those are the same type of people that were behind Adolf Hitler...

No the fact they cheated to ram it through without a proper vote reflects the people that drew it up....those are the same type of people that were behind Adolf Hitler...

I wouldn't want to be you guy explaining to a poor citizen why he get canceled and can't get his operation because he capped out of covered benefits, or why you get dropped because you had a pre exiting condition.

Or why your premium went up, but they dropped you anyway when you got sick. Tell me again why the old way was better.

The proof is in the reaction to it . The American people don't want it... union bosses who sent their shock troops to the streets to support it have now turned on it. Democrats think it's a train wreck, members of the agency charged with enforcing it have said it's hazardous to our health and both members of Congress and their staffers are getting an opt out . Perhaps they took your advice and read it. While testifying to Congress , Daniel Werfel, IRS boss , the agency charged with enforcing ObamaCare's mandates, said he would rather keep his current health insurance plan than make the switch .The National Treasury Employees Union(NTEU) sent a letter to congress begging out.
Even now many months after it was shoved up our keisters ,HHS is trying to get athletes and movie stars to promote it... you know... people with enough money to independently opt out.

But you are right about one thing .The old system had the taxpayer subsidizing 75% od members of Congress and their staffs plans . Now the freakazoids on Capitol Hill have the coconuts to say that they should be exempt from the provisions of the law they forced on us. Now the emperor ,in an effort to delay the inevitable train wreck is delaying the employer mandate and not the individual even though his action violates that very law . Now the WH is allowing the subsidization of individuals onto exchanges without income verification.
All you've done is taken steps to destroy a good system that at best needed some tweeking ,and replaced it with an economy destroying cr@p sandwich. Typical of utopian progressives who live in a fantasy world not having a clue how the real world works.

You complain but how is it the president can enact legislation by executive order? Why don't you do away with that anachristic legislature and let him run the country? You have parallel systems and it seems neither work, chalk that one up to the founders in their infinate wisdom

Article 5 convention could solve many of our problems... but no... what you are seeing is abuse of powers... not a flaw in the construct.

You think my thinking is twisted, but if you think your president will voluntarily give up his powers it is your thinking that is twisted. Only the ballot box can force him and maybe not even then

The election was last year Clete, and they failed.

The election was last year Clete, and they failed.

We still won the House in spite of the IRS and FEC collusion and bullying, the compliant media, the lies about Benghazi and your mythical war on women meme.

Hello again, Steve:

We still won the House in spite of the IRS and FEC collusion and bullying, the compliant media, the lies about Benghazi and your mythical war on women meme.To be clear, you got LESS votes than Democrats and only "won" because the districts were gerrymandered...

The truth is, right wing policies were rejected ACROSS the board.

Excon

So America voted for Obamacare and unlimited government spending.

Hello again, Steve:

unlimited government spendingI don't remember that as a campaign promise.. What I DO remember is right wing policies were REJECTED ACROSS THE BOARD.

Excon

So America voted for Obamacare and unlimited government spending.

Unlimited is the right wing spin, always has been though that's what they do when they have the power to govern, but be honest, Romney would have given him and his rich buddies even more money and the wingers would be holding the door open. That's what the last election was about, unlimited spending on rich guys and NOT Americans.

Taxpayers saved the nation, and the banks but who saves the taxpayers. It sure ain't the job creators the right worships, or wall street for sure, so I guess we have to save ourselves because we want a raise.

Give it up or get back jack!! No more stealing and calling it capitalism.

Unlimited is the right wing spin, always has been though that's what they do when they have the power to govern, but be honest, Romney would have given him and his rich buddies even more money and the wingers would be holding the door open. That's what the last election was about, unlimited spending on rich guys and NOT Americans.

Taxpayers saved the nation, and the banks but who saves the taxpayers. It sure ain't the job creators the right worships, or wall street for sure, so I guess we have to save ourselves because we want a raise.

Give it up or get back jack!!!!!!!!! No more stealing and calling it capitalism.

Lol, you're so predictable. And yet again you have no problem with your side doing the same thing you're b!tching about now. Corzine misplaced billions of investor dollars and no one on your side is even curious about it. Billions of taxpayer dollars thrown down the sinkhole of all those green energy 'job creators' and nary a flinch from you. The Clintonistas are still doing shady business and y'all are trying to put them in office and head government agencies. Nothing to see here, look, something shiny!

Terry McAuliffe’s electric car company under SEC investigation « Hot Air (http://hotair.com/archives/2013/08/02/terry-mcauliffes-electric-car-company-under-sec-investigation/)

P.S. As we speak unions are out demanding McDonald's increase wages by 100 percent. As if they'd survive paying entry level workers $15 an hour and changing their dollar menu to the $7.99 menu.

That hasn't been the case, they have higher wages at McDonald on the west coast but the same prices.

City and County of San Francisco : Minimum Wage Ordinance (MWO) (http://www.sfgsa.org/index.aspx?page=411)

That hasn't been the case, they have higher wages at McDonald on the west coast but the same prices.

City and County of San Francisco : Minimum Wage Ordinance (MWO) (http://www.sfgsa.org/index.aspx?page=411)

$10.55 is not $15 an hour and naturally you think we should all increase our cost of living to that of San Francisco, where $10.55 is like $7.00 in Texas.

P.S. As we speak unions are out demanding McDonald's increase wages by 100 percent. As if they'd survive paying entry level workers $15 an hour and changing their dollar menu to the $7.99 menu.

They have done it here and report higher profits you forget the increase can be covered by hiring one less worker per shift

When you sent those factory jobs overseas for cheap labor those former so called entry level jobs got taken by older people, the average age being upper twenties, not teen agers. So adults most with kids who are the working poor either have to earn more, or receive more federal assistance just to eat and pay rent.

Don't listen to smoothie talking welfare Cadillacs, and luxury shoes. Just imagine yourself with a kid and minimum wage. It ain't an easy living and as we transition from factory to service industry, some adjustments have to be made. I mean how many jobs should a guy or girl expect toned just to eat and buy diapers?

Even in Texas it's a hard pull, especially with part time hours.

When you sent those factory jobs overseas for cheap labor those former so called entry level jobs got taken by older people, the average age being upper twenties, not teen agers. So adults most with kids who are the working poor either have to earn more, or receive more federal assistance just to eat and pay rent.

Don't listen to smoothie talking welfare Cadillacs, and luxury shoes. Just imagine yourself with a kid and minimum wage. It ain't an easy living and as we transition from factory to service industry, some adjustments have to be made. I mean how many jobs should a guy or girl expect toned just to eat and buy diapers?

Even in Texas its a hard pull, especially with part time hours.

you know Tal you're right I've observed those entry level jobs are being taken here by adults too, much bigger population of older workers in Mcdonalds and KFC but I know that Speech hasn't heard of productivity which is what you get when you start paying the true value for the work

Fast food worker and even other minimum wage workers are increasingly striking and protesting here, so yeah they will eventually get a fair value for there time and effort if they stick to it. Reminds me of the good old days and how employer health insurance came about.

Yes we still need unions, more now than before.

Hello again, Steve:
To be clear, you got LESS votes than Democrats and only "won" because the districts were gerrymandered...

The truth is, right wing policies were rejected ACROSS the board.

excon

When the Dems won the House and Senate in 2006 was it gerrymandering too ?

Always with the history, move on, this is the post GFC era lots of things have changed, some not so much

I think Tal and everyone else yammering about a living wage should hire all those 16 year olds for $15 an hour or more and set the example. Come on, you first.

Hey I agree give them a living wage and force the rich to give up something

16 year olds? How about those poor working moms, and dads or laid off workers from the places who lost their jobs to overseas cheap labor?

16 year olds?? How about those poor working moms, and dads or laid off workers from the places who lost their jobs to overseas cheap labor?

Be the example, Tal, be the example.

Hey I agree give them a living wage and force the rich to give up something

And what about that poor working mom that won't be able to afford a Happy Meal any more?

Well just maybe she will feed her babies something nutricious

Hello again, Steve:

Be the example, Tal, be the example.I AM the example. I AM the example..

I have ALWAYS paid my employees MORE than the going rate... When waitress's were earning $1.25/hr plus tips, I paid MINE $2.50. That policy has continued to this very day.

Frankly, had I not done that, I wouldn't be the success I am today.. It was my EMPLOYEES who did it for me. I did nothing but hire the right people and paid them what they were worth. We ALL made money.

That's the way I do business. Always have. Always will.

Excon

Hello again, Steve:
I AM the example. I AM the example..

I have ALWAYS paid my employees MORE than the going rate... When waitress's were earning $1.25/hr plus tips, I paid MINE $2.50. That policy has continued to this very day.

Frankly, had I not done that, I wouldn't be the success I am today.. It was my EMPLOYEES who did it for me. I did nothing but hire the right people and paid them what they were worth. We ALL made money.

That's the way I do business. Always have. Always will.

excon

Do you or would you pay a non skilled worker the same wage as a highly skilled worker?

Aren't you also bound by market forces that determine your pricing policy like everyone else?

Hey do you think you have to defend yourself ,of course you don't ,we know what these people are like, exploiters, crap merchants why argue with them

Typical wingers, worried about happy meals when the working poor need so much more. If McDonald's don't keep those happy meals affordable, then they won't sell them in the first place.

Like the pizza guy who was going to raise his pies by 7 cents because of Obama Care. Typical knee jerk right wing conservative illogic.

Lol, the typical left wing logic is you think you can force businesses to pay a certain wage without consequences. Everything you do, like Obamacare, go do without considering the negative impacts. You think abortion is just protecting choice with no regard for the life of the infant. There are costs to everything, you never consider them.

Hello again, dad:

Do you or would you pay a non skilled worker the same wage as a highly skilled worker?

Aren't you also bound by market forces that determine your pricing policy like everyone else?(1) No, of course not. But, I paid him MORE than anybody else would.

(2) To a degree I was, of course.. But, because I had the BEST product in town, I NAMED my own price, and people paid it.

It's still true today... I am the most expensive consultant I know, and people pay it.

Excon

Lol, the typical left wing logic is you think you can force businesses to pay a certain wage without consequences. Everything you do, like Obamacare, go do without considering the negative impacts. You think abortion is just protecting choice with no regard for the life of the infant. There are costs to everything, you never consider them.

You shouldn't have to force business to do the right thing by its workers, and have you considered the negative impacts of being poor, and working two jobs?

What I ain't getting is why you are so self righteous about saving the unborn child, and then treat them like crap after they are born. Dead beat dad is my word for it, what's yours?

Being more specific, wingers rammed through this safety bill for abortion clinics while not expanding Medicaid in Texas. At least buy some happy meals for those poor kids.

You shouldn't have to force business to do the right thing by its workers, and have you considered the negative impacts of being poor, and working two jobs?

Your right they shouldn't but in reality they do. That is why there are labor laws in this country. As far as negative impacts of being poor. Do you actually despise those that are poor so much that you think of them as helpless less then you persons? Why is it so hard to conceive that a person can rise above where they are but moving up the ladder on their own? To you these poor people are stuck where they are without your help. Reality speaks differently.




Being more specific, wingers rammed thru this safety bill for abortion clinics while not expanding Medicaid in Texas. At least buy some happy meals for those poor kids.



Why should they have changed anything about healthcare when its going to change anyway? Isn't Obamacare coming to fruition in 2014? And according to your beloved president Happy Meals are bad for you. How can you suggest such a thing?

Hello again,

It should be noted that I didn't pay my people lots of money because I cared about my fellow man. I paid them tons of dough because they MADE me tons of dough.

I don't know WHY, but it's an idea that we've lost. I travel across town to get the service I deserve. If I owned a McDonalds, I KNOW that my service would be SOOOOO good, people would drive across town to get it.

If Elliot were here, he'd KNOW what I'm talking about.

excon

PS> I miss that guy..

Hello again,

It should be noted that I didn't pay my people lots of money because I cared about my fellow man. I paid them tons of dough because they MADE me tons of dough.

I dunno WHY, but it's an idea that we've lost. I travel across town to get the service I deserve. If I owned a McDonalds, I KNOW that my service would be SOOOOO good, people would drive across town to get it.

If Elliot were here, he'd KNOW what I'm talking about.

excon

PS> I miss that guy..


Im not nor is anyone disputing your business formula. I think it is a good one myself and have pushed that style for years. BUT (yes big but) when it comes to McDonalds and other low skilled jobs you can only go so far before you push the product beyond affordability. If they all made $25 an hour. The rest of us couldn't afford to buy the product. Being the highest value is a good thing. But being the highest cost is not. There is a difference.

Most low wage jobs are considered stepping stones. What we lack now that we used to have is schooling that includes training for a workforce. Not everyone can aford nor wants to go to college. But we do need skilled workers for the future.

Ex we know what you are talking about, now back to the real world

Hello again, dad:

Most low wage jobs are considered stepping stones. They were. Now they're occupied by bread winners. I believe it's been demonstrated that $15/hr would NOT raise the cost of a big mac appreciably, NOR would it appreciably impact their bottom line.

A good example would be Costco vs Walmart.. Costco pays its workers WELL, and manages to compete with Walmart, who pays its workers bupkus.

Excon

QUOTE by cdad;
Your right they shouldn't but in reality they do. That is why there are labor laws in this country. As far as negative impacts of being poor. Do you actually despise those that are poor so much that you think of them as helpless less then you persons? Why is it so hard to conceive that a person can rise above where they are but moving up the ladder on their own? To you these poor people are stuck where they are without your help. Reality speaks differently.

Is it me who despises the poor for advocating a living wage, or is it you who think they don't need it? As we speak those workers are already demonstrating across this land, for the right to unionize, and raise their standard of living with higher wages. I support them in that, if you don't that's cool, and that's reality too.


Why should they have changed anything about healthcare when its going to change anyway? Isn't Obamacare coming to fruition in 2014? And according to your beloved president Happy Meals are bad for you. How can you suggest such a thing?

If you read anything in other forums I have written you would know I am not an absolutist, and believe in making adjustments to the reality we are in. I am perplexed by the conservatives being adamant that poor people can have no health insurance since it's a necessity, not a luxury, and costs us all a lot more when they don't. Not to mention the life changing consequences of not having it. Implementation of any plan, large or small has to allow for tweaks and adjustments being made along the way.

Time and reality changes circumstances, and peoples thinking, and being poor is a growing thing in this country that goes well beyond politics, and the guy in the WH. You cannot dismiss that's reality. Doing nothing is NOT an option, stay stagnant I NOT a resolution.

Being a second class citizen because you have no money, no skills, and no options in a supposedly great nation is deplorable. Adjustments must be made.

You shouldn't have to force business to do the right thing by its workers, and have you considered the negative impacts of being poor, and working two jobs?

What I ain't getting is why you are so self righteous about saving the unborn child, and then treat them like crap after they are born. Dead beat dad is my word for it, what's yours?

Being more specific, wingers rammed thru this safety bill for abortion clinics while not expanding Medicaid in Texas. At least buy some happy meals for those poor kids.

Dude, stop repeating this fantasy that we hate the poor and don't care about kids after they're born. It's just a trite liberal narrative with no basis in reality like the war on women.

We aren't the ones that want to keep people dependent on government a la Julia, and send kids to failing public schools.

We aren't the ones that said kids don't need a mom and a dad, in fact ex and Sharpton called O'Reilly a racist for mentioning the breakdown of the black family and now you want to talk about deadbeat dads? Gimme a break.

You are a racists if you point out the ills of the black family and ignore the same for the white families.

And spin it as you want its your actions toward the poor that don't quite match your words.

You have insurance yet holler about poor people having it. You don't want them to have a living wage either, you said so.

Hello again, Steve:

in fact ex and Sharpton called O'Reilly a racist for mentioning the breakdown of the black family It's not that they're racists, exactly.. Ok, yes they are..

He has a fundamental misunderstanding of the black community... Rather than lamenting their plight, he essentially says they DESERVE it because, they're lazy, immoral, and looking for a handout.. He, like you, believes racism is over, therefore the ONLY reason to live like that is because they WANT to.

Does it sound different when I say it, than when O'Reilly does?

Excon

Hello again, Steve:
It's not that they're racists, exactly.. Ok, yes they are..

He has a fundamental misunderstanding of the black community... Rather than lamenting their plight, he essentially says they DESERVE it because, they're lazy, immoral, and looking for a handout.. He, like you, believes racism is over, therefore the ONLY reason to live like that is because they WANT to.

Does it sound different when I say it, than when O'Reilly does?

excon

We all have a fundamental misunderstanding of the black community Ex, or is it that they have a fundamental misunderstanding of our community. We, none of us, are here to subsidise those who don't want to make a contribution, but we can show compassion to those who lack opportunity, or are victims of circumstance, no matter what race they might be.

How that fits into the comments you have reflected and come up with racism I cannot say but I do know that there are certain members of the community, who can be characterised by their race, who are generally not contributing

You are a racists if you point out the ills of the black family and ignore the same for the white families.

Only in a liberal's world is concern for the problems of another race, racism. Geez you guys never quit with the bullsh*t.


And spin it as you want its your actions toward the poor that don't quite match your words.

We've been over this a thousand times, too. We want a safety net for the poor, but why should we siphon off from what they need and suck up my taxpayer dollars I can be much more efficient with to help the truly helpless to give multiple free cell phones away? Priorities, dude.


You have insurance yet holler about poor people having it. You don't want them to have a living wage either, you said so.

Lies, lies, lies, Tal. You aren't interested in having an honest discussion.

We all have a fundamental misunderstanding of the black community Ex, or is it that they have a fundamental misunderstanding of our community. We, none of us, are here to subsidise those who don't want to make a contribution, but we can show compassion to those who lack opportunity, or are victims of circumstance, no matter what race they might be.

How that fits into the comments you have reflected and come up with racism I cannot say but I do know that there are certain members of the community, who can be characterised by their race, who are generally not contributing

Don Lemon must be a racist.

CNN's Don Lemon: Bill O'Reilly's Criticism Of Black Community "Doesn't Go Far Enough" (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/07/27/cnns_don_lemon_bill_oreillys_criticism_of_black_co mmunity_doesnt_go_far_enough.html)

So is Obama... for his own Autobiograpies..

Dreams from My Father Quotes By Barack Obama (http://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/86032-dreams-from-my-father)

Enthusiasm for Obamacare is apparently sky high. An OFA Obamacare event in the Washington DC suburb of Centreville, VA, attracted one participant (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/obamacare-event-attendance-virginia-95172.html). The lone volunteer that stuck around must have handled the onslaught with no problems.

http://images.politico.com/global/2013/08/04/20130804_obamacare_event_msm_328.jpg
Lynn Duvall was the sole volunteer at the Centreville, Va. OFA event. | M.Scott Mahaskey/POLITICO

Yee haw!

Enthusiasm for Obamacare is apparently sky high. An OFA Obamacare event in the Washington DC suburb of Centreville, VA, attracted one participant (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/obamacare-event-attendance-virginia-95172.html). The lone volunteer that stuck around must have handled the onslaught with no problems.

http://images.politico.com/global/2013/08/04/20130804_obamacare_event_msm_328.jpg
Lynn Duvall was the sole volunteer at the Centreville, Va., OFA event. | M.Scott Mahaskey/POLITICO

Yee haw!

Yeah... not a lot of people like it around here... Centerville is about a 20 minute drive for me... without traffic. Not at all surprised. The welfare class are the only ones that love it... and this area is expensive enough to run most of them to other areas.

And now back to the latest Obamacare waiver. As previously mentioned Obama has waived his magic wand and magically wiped away the requirement for Congress and members of their staff to participate in the law they forced on the rest of the great unwashed.

Key Obamacare architect of the "train wreck" Max Baucus said of the rule requiring them to live with the law, "I'm very gratified that you have so much confidence in our program that you're going to be able to purchase the new program yourself and I'm confident too that the system will work very well."

Obviously the lower cost of health insurance under Obamacare won't work well enough for the ruling class since once again Obama is suspending his own law, which not only is another example of the double standards he espouses but is most likely illegal (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324635904578644202946287548.html), not that legality ever stopped the emperor.


And now the White House is suspending the law to create a double standard. The Office of Personnel Management (OPM) that runs federal benefits will release regulatory details this week, but leaks to the press suggest that Congress will receive extra payments based on the FEHBP defined-contribution formula, which covers about 75% of the cost of the average insurance plan. For 2013, that's about $4,900 for individuals and $10,000 for families.

How OPM will pull this off is worth watching. Is OPM simply going to cut checks, akin to "cashing out" fringe benefits and increasing wages? Or will OPM cover 75% of the cost of the ObamaCare plan the worker chooses—which could well be costlier than what the feds now contribute via current FEHBP plans? In any case the carve-out for Congress creates a two-tier exchange system, one for the great unwashed and another for the politically connected.

This latest White House night at the improv is also illegal. OPM has no authority to pay for insurance plans that lack FEHBP contracts, nor does the Affordable Care Act permit either exchange contributions or a unilateral bump in congressional pay in return for less overall compensation. Those things require appropriations bills passed by Congress and signed by the President.

But the White House rejected a legislative fix because Republicans might insist on other changes, and Mr. Obama feared that Democrats would go along because they're looking out for number one. So the White House is once again rewriting the law unilaterally, much as it did by suspending ObamaCare's employer mandate for a year. For this White House, the law it wrote is a mere suggestion.

The lesson for Americans is that Democrats who passed ObamaCare didn't even understand what they were doing to themselves, much less to everyone else. But you can bet Democrats will never extend to ordinary Americans the same fixes that they are now claiming for themselves. The real class divide in President Obama's America is between the political class and everyone else

To quote my friend Talaniman, "Being a second class citizen because you have no money, no skills, and no options in a supposedly great nation is deplorable. Adjustments must be made. "

Amen brother, so let's start by ending this two-tiered system where the ruling class exempts itself from the laws they impose on the rest of us lesser beings. Surely that's a cause we can agree on.

As long a you include bankers, wall street and corporations with the ruling class we can agree.

As long a you include bankers, wall street and corporations with the ruling class we can agree.

But until then you're OK with the lawmakers exempting themselves from the laws they force us to live with, waging class warfare, enjoying benefits the poor can only imagine.

P.S. I notice you exempted union leaders fattening their own wallets on the backs of workers again.

And to be sure not quite buying the spin WSJ is putting on this one either. Giving the system a chance to be tweaked and improved is hardly suspending the law, but I think jumping to quickly to conclusions is counter productive and self serving.

Not on one opinion that maybe more than biased.

But until then you're OK with the lawmakers exempting themselves from the laws they force us to live with, waging class warfare, enjoying benefits the poor can only imagine.

P.S. I notice you exempted union leaders fattening their own wallets on the backs of workers again.

I think you get excited and use a lot of embellishments when you discuss things you don't like. I can wait for further details before coming to conclusions. Then we can avoid the inflammatory rhetoric.

I think you get excited and use a lot of embellishments when you discuss things you don't like. I can wait for further details before coming to conclusions. Then we can avoid the inflammatory rhetoric.

What part of Obama is exempting congressional staff from his own law is embellished?

Sarah Palin... right again. On Facebook she comments "Wish I had been wrong about this one..."

Don't Fund Obamacare (http://www.dontfundobamacare.com/)

Remember Palin's "first gaffe"?


Palin Makes Her First Gaffe (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/08/palin-makes-her-first-gaf_n_124792.html)

Gov. Sarah Palin made her first potentially major gaffe during her time on the national scene while discussing the developments of the perilous housing market this past weekend.

Speaking before voters in Colorado Springs, the Republican vice presidential nominee claimed that lending giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had "gotten too big and too expensive to the taxpayers." The companies, as McClatchy reported, "aren't taxpayer funded but operate as private companies. The takeover may result in a taxpayer bailout during reorganization."

And then the emperor says this yesterday...


Helping more Americans refinance. Helping qualified families get a mortgage. Reforming our immigration system. Rebuilding the hardest-hit communities. Making sure folks have a decent place to rent. These steps will give more middle-class families the chance to buy their own home, more relief to responsible homeowners, and more options for families who aren’t yet ready to buy. But as home prices rise, we can’t just re-inflate a housing bubble. That’s the second thing I’m here to talk about today: laying a rock-solid foundation to make sure the kind of crisis we just went through never happens again.

That begins with winding down the companies known as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. For too long, these companies were allowed to make big profits buying mortgages, knowing that if their bets went bad, taxpayers would be left holding the bag. It was “heads we win, tails you lose.” And it was wrong.

Even Obama is now acknowledging Palin was right.

Posted about this earlier today forgetting the grief Palin got for her comments about Fannie and Freddie.
Ask Me Help Desk - View Single Post - SEC charges ex Fannie and Freddie Execs (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/3524079-post15.html)
Note that the emperor waited until he no longer needed their campaign donations.

Yeah we got the message sanity has returnded and the conditions which created the GFC are being wound back

and the conditions which created the GFC are being wound back
Hardly... different bubbles are being created by the government like the cheap dollar bubble.

Yes the fall out from that one could be a market crash again. I say give the bonds a decent return and let the people buy them, in fact, make them a required investment for pensions funds and 401k and stop this nonsense of flooding the economy with money. I remember my basic economics this is not a good policy

That's the problem Clete the economy hasn't been flooded with money, or living wage middle class jobs either. The bond market is doing great. Wall Street is happy and so are rich folks.

the economy hasn't been flooded with money correct ,it's been flooded with monopoly money courtesy of the FED and the Treasury Dept's printing presses. Your stimulus has failed and all you have is idiots like Krugman who say we should double down on that failure.

correct ,it's been flooded with monopoly money courtesy of the FED and the Treasury Dept's printing presses. Your stimulus has failed and all you have is idiots like Krugman who say we should double down on that failure.

Hey, it wasn't my stimulus and I would have let the banks fail along with the auto industry and AIG. A sharp correction is sometimes the answer. I think this zero interest is a farce distorting markets and buying bonds is just a blind. Look how it has distorted the stock market

Hey, it wasn't my stimulus and I would have let the banks fail along with the auto industry and AIG. A sharp correction is sometimes the answer. I think this zero interest is a farce distorting markets and buying bonds is just a blind. Look how it has distorted the stock market

Yes that was a Tal's comment I was replying to. Completely agree with statement above. That would be the capitalist solution to dealing with the crisis. I also think the US should adopt a strong dollar policy.

Remember Palin's "first gaffe"?



And then the emperor says this yesterday...



Even Obama is now acknowledging Palin was right.

Palin wrote on Facebook... Hey media, now do you get it?

Palin was right time to put a cross on the wall

palin was right time to put a cross on the wall

Palin was right about far more things than Obama has been.

Hello again,

Palin is a douche. Cruz is a Fascist. Rand Paul is NOT a libertarian. And, I NEVER thought I would miss George W. Bush, but I do...

excon

Leave it to the right wing to make a backwoods loudmouth who couldn't finish out her own term of office some kind of hero. No wonder you guys are screwed.

Leave it to the right wing to make a backwoods loudmouth who couldn't finish out her own term of office some kind of hero. No wonder you guys are screwed.

Um, that would be your emperor now embracing what Palin said five years ago as policy.

Hello again,

Palin is a douche. Cruz is a Fascist. Rand Paul is NOT a libertarian. And, I NEVER thought I would miss George W. Bush, but I do...

excon

Obama is a socialist douche... Ried is a prune with dementia... and Pelosi is modling herself after the joker.

Leave it to the right wing to make a backwoods loudmouth who couldn't finish out her own term of office some kind of hero. No wonder you guys are screwed.

Considering the emperor only served in the Senate long enough to find the bathrooms ,that's a pretty funny comment.

considering the emperor only served in the Senate long enough to find the bathrooms ,that's a pretty funny comment.
And found better bathrooms in the White House.

And found better bathrooms in the White House.

He had to traverse 57 states to find them.

And found better bathrooms in the White House.

Yes he did... he has a butler too .

considering the emperor only served in the Senate long enough to find the bathrooms ,that's a pretty funny comment.

While Palin became the cute back woodsy, maverick, governor on the rise only to find out she couldn't keep her commitment to her state after failing to win over her country. Better suited to the OUTHOUSE than the WHITE HOUSE, or the governors mansion. Perfect for Fox News, and the loony right wing fringe.

I bet she knows there aren't 57 states and that Charleston, SC is on the east coast, not the gulf.

When she comes off her back porch looking at Russia and finds Arizona again, let me know so we can ask her.

While Palin became the cute back woodsy, maverick, governor on the rise only to find out she couldn't keep her commitment to her state after failing to win over her country. Better suited to the OUTHOUSE than the WHITE HOUSE, or the governors mansion. Perfect for Fox News, and the loony right wing fringe.

The difference is that she cared about the people of Alaska .So when real phony ethics investigations began to prevent her from doing her job ,she did the right thing and resigned. MORE POLITICIANS FROM BOTH PARTIES COULD LEARN A LESSON FROM THAT .

Never knew a mama grizzly to run from a fight. Or make excuses. You have a future as a Palin spin meister.

BS Tal ,it was a political witch hunt conducted against her because she made the mistake of proposing and passing the toughest ethics laws of any state in the union. Her opponents used the laws against her like Mordred in Camelot. They were bankrupting her personally having to defend herself and more important ,it prevented her from effectively doing her job. She did the right thing for the people of the state as their Governor, and by resigning when she did. More public servants should understand that none of their jobs were ever intended to be lifetime jobs. The founders envisioned citizen statesmen ,not careerists .

How noble to run from a fight and make more money which was her motives in the first place. But of course she could never admit such a thing. Not so sure about those ethnic laws of which you credit her with but she was in bed with big oil and was passing checks from them.

She made a lot of enemies for the least populated state of its size with a large welfare dependent population.

Not so sure about those ethnic laws of which you credit her with
Basically she proposed and passed laws you wish your side would do . It's a load of cr@p and a complete lie to say she had a crony relationship with the oil companies. Why don't you do your research instead of flapping gums with lies fed to you by the PDS crowd .

How Governor Palin Reformed Alaska's Ethics Laws and Made Crony Capitalism a Crime | A Time For Choosing (http://thespeechatimeforchoosing.wordpress.com/2011/09/14/how-governor-palin-reformed-alaskas-ethics-laws-and-made-crony-capitalism-a-crime/)

Pardon me if I am skeptical of a right wing blogger who quotes from Sarah's own book.

Is that all you have ? Prove it wrong. But you won't because you can't .

Basically she proposed and passed laws you wish your side would do . It's a load of cr@p and a complete lie to say she had a crony relationship with the oil companies. Why don't you do your research instead of flapping gums with lies fed to you by the PDS crowd .

How Governor Palin Reformed Alaska's Ethics Laws and Made Crony Capitalism a Crime | A Time For Choosing (http://thespeechatimeforchoosing.wordpress.com/2011/09/14/how-governor-palin-reformed-alaskas-ethics-laws-and-made-crony-capitalism-a-crime/)

And Tom rushes to her defence like a good republican, is your slip showing Tom

I defend Palin because she is unfairly smeared here . I also share Palin's CONSERVATIVE views. Do you really think the beltway Repubics ,the party leadership like and support her ? No Clete ,I don't march when the Repubics beat their drums.

I defend Palin because she is unfairly smeared here . I also share Palin's CONSERVATIVE views. Do you really think the beltway Repubics ,the party leadership like and support her ? No Clete ,I don't march when the Repubics beat their drums.

Well perhaps you should. Genuine grass roots people such as yourself will never get a say.

Tut I tried . Too much garbage to swallow. Here is my compromise. When they act like free market ;small government constitutionalists I can get with their program. But I have no intention to even pretend to support Democrat-lite.

Are you joking? Sister Sarah and her red meat rhetoric for conservatives hardly makes her your savior. And does nothing for the rest of the country. But if she is all you got..!

Keep purging your own party, its great theater, and dwindles the numbers down even faster. You think a RINO will vote for a redneck?

Hello again, tom:

When they act like free market ;small government constitutionalists I can get with their program.IF Republicans acted like that, I'd BE one. But, they FOOL themselves into believing that crap..

Right wingers believe in HUGE, unbelievably LARGE government when it comes to things like COPS, and the DRUG WAR, and managing the HUGEST, LARGEST prison population in the world... They're happy with the BIG, HUGE NSA program that SNOOPS on every American in direct violation to the Constitution...

Oh, yeah... They LOVE spending LARGE, unbelievably MONSTROUS amounts of cash on our military... More than the next 16 countries COMBINED...

They just think the SOCIAL side of government is WAYYYYY tooo big, and shouldn't even exist.

In the final analysis, you AIN'T fooling nobody.

Excon

Hello again, tom:
IF Republicans acted like that, I'd BE one. But, they FOOL themselves into believing that crap.. Right wingers believe in HUGE, unbelievably LARGE government when it comes to things like COPS, and the DRUG WAR, and managing the HUGEST, LARGEST prison population in the world... They're happy with the BIG, HUGE NSA program that SNOOPS on every American in direct violation to the Constitution...

Oh, yeah... They LOVE spending LARGE, unbelievably MONSTROUS amounts of cash on our military.... More than the next 16 countries COMBINED...

So, in the final analysis, you AIN'T fooling nobody.

excon

You forgot about the vagina cops.

Abortion and forced "Euthanasia" are both murder.

Denying health insurance to poor people while you buy yours at a cut rate from the boss can be forced euthanasia also. And that's after you pop out the vagina. So bosses that don't provide adequate health insurance are murderers. Insurance providers that drop people when they face life threatening diseases are murderers.

Denying health insurance to poor people while you buy yours at a cut rate from the boss can be forced euthanasia also. And that's after you pop out the vagina. So bosses that don't provide adequate health insurance are murderers. Insurance providers that drop people when they face life threatening diseases are murderers.

Nobody is DENYING the lazy cheapskate poor people anything... they can buy it and pay for it like everyone else has to do... if they stopped wasting money on things like cellphones for every kid... they could pay for medical insurance on just what they spend every month on their phone bill.

Funny how you and the other lefties can kill babies cold heartedly... but refuse to hold people old enough to be responsible for their own behaviour... to be responsible for their own behaviour.

And personally I know lots of porr people that should die because they wasted their money on dumb instant gratification rather than spend it on things they actually need.

I did it... there is absolutely no excuse why they can't either.

No they can't, you embellish and exaggerate.

No they can't, you embellish and exaggerate.

Bulls**t,,

The so-called poor have $200+ gym shoes... and expensive jackets... that they are on the news all the time for getting beat to a pulp or shot by some other "poor" person who steals it off them.

Anyone that has shoes that cost more than $40 (and that's being generous) has money to spend on health insurance.

If you wear $200 or $300 Nike shoes... you HAVE money for health insurance.

I actually have a job so does my wife... and between me and my wife we are at the 6 figure range... neither of us own a pair of $90 dress shoes much less $200 or $300 tennis shoes.

The so-called poor have $200+ gym shoes...and expensive jacket
All of them -- or how many? Or just the ones who made the news?