Hello again, tom:

the entitlement state will collapse from the weight of the obligations shortly As I suspected, it's NOT death panels... It's NOT mandates.. It's NOT ANY of that stuff you say it is.. It's that you think it'll work. And, it will.

Excon

So is there anything wrong with Obamacare other than it isn't single payer?

Hello again, tom:
As I suspected, it's NOT death panels... It's NOT mandates.. It's NOT ANY of that stuff you say it is.. It's that you think it'll work. And, it will.

excon

How do you read into my comment that I think it will work ? I was addressing NK's irrelevant observation specifically .

NK's irrelevant observationHow is it irrelevant to show that something which you deride seems to be the norm elsewhere? Is it because you don't want to hear that?

How is it irrelevant to show that something which you deride seems to be the norm elsewhere? Is it because you don't want to hear that?

Of course they don't want to hear it NK, you know they are never wrong, well almost never. It's the not made here syndrome, if they had thought of it they would have been early adopters

Hello again, Steve:
So is there anything wrong with Obamacare other than it isn't single payer?Not being single payer isn't something wrong with Obamacare. It's the mistake congress made. So, I'm not going to criticize it because it doesn't fit my druthers.

Let me take an honest look at it. Of course, if I'm going to be honest, I won't talk about death panels.. I won't talk about train wrecks.. I won't talk about bankrupting the nation. That's because NONE of those things are true.

Is there anything wrong with giving poor people health coverage for the first time in their lives? No.

Is there anything wrong with stopping insurance companies from denying coverage because of a pre-existing condition? No.

Is there anything wrong with children being allowed to stay on their parents health plan until they're 26? No.

Is there anything wrong with requiring insurance companies to spend 80% of their income on health care? No.

Is there anything wrong with requiring EVERYBODY to buy health insurance? No.

Is there anything wrong with wealthy and middle class persons insurance premium going up? No.

Is there anything wrong with people NOT going bankrupt because of medical bills? No.

Am I missing anything?

Excon

There is something wrong when one group gets a free ride via the virtual mugging of another group.

Yeah, you forgot something. Insurance companies cannot cap your coverage and dump you after spending a set amount.

No co pays for preventive maintenance doctor visits, routine and regular check ups to the peanut gallery.

There is something wrong when one group gets a free ride via the virtual mugging of another group.

I agree and that's what the uninsured are getting off the dime of the tax payer. You righty hypocrites are always hollering about personal responsibility, now we have it. Still you holler.

I agree and that's what the uninsured are getting off the dime of the tax payer. You righty hypocrites are always hollering about personal responsibility, now we have it. Still you holler.



http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/signs/smiley-vault-signs-024.gif

And the fact remains... those of us who actually have jobs we worked hard to get are going to have to pay even more for our insurance to cover the lazy and the financially irresponsible... while all of the other programs they were previously leaching off still remain and continue to cost us money.

Hello again, Steve: Not being single payer isn't something wrong with Obamacare. It's the mistake congress made. So, I'm not gonna criticize it because it doesn't fit my druthers.

Lemme take an honest look at it. Of course, if I'm gonna be honest, I won't talk about death panels.. I won't talk about train wrecks.. I won't talk about bankrupting the nation. That's because NONE of those things are true.

Is there anything wrong with giving poor people health coverage for the first time in their lives?? No.

Is there anything wrong with stopping insurance companies from denying coverage because of a pre-existing condition? No.

Is there anything wrong with children being allowed to stay on their parents health plan til they're 26? No.

Is there anything wrong with requiring insurance companies to spend 80% of their income on health care? No.

Is there anything wrong with requiring EVERYBODY to buy health insurance? No.

Is there anything wrong with wealthy and middle class persons insurance premium going up? No.

Is there anything wrong with people NOT going bankrupt because of medical bills? No.

Am I missing anything?

excon


Yes, you're missing the answer to my question.

Hello again, Steve:

Yes, you're missing the answer to my question.Well, let's rectify that.

Is there anything wrong with Obamacare, you asked...

Yes.

Excon

of course they don't want to hear it NK, you know they are never wrong, well almost never. It's the not made here syndrome, if they had thought of it they would have been early adopters

No ;it's just that I don't care what the rest of the world does. They are bankrupting their countries faster than we are ;but we are on the same track to the same result.
Here is a leader that gets it .


The King of the Netherlands has informed his country that their welfare state is finished.

King Willem-Alexander, alongside his wife, Queen Maxima, told the Dutch people that they must create their own social and financial safety nets, and that looking to the state for help was a thing of the 20th century.
Dutch king declares end of the welfare state | euronews, world news (http://www.euronews.com/2013/09/18/dutch-king-declares-end-of-the-welfare-state/)

Hello again, Steve:
Well, let's rectify that.

Is there anything wrong with Obamacare, you asked...

Yes.

excon

Care to expand on that? I'm giving you your shot to be honest about it.

Hello again, Steve:

Care to expand on that? I'm giving you your shot to be honest about it.I thought I was. Besides, you told me I couldn't list what it wasn't. If I wasn't under such restrictions, I'd complain that it wasn't Medicare for all.

BECAUSE it isn't Medicare for all, I don't like all the kickbacks, and deals they made with all the players to get them to go along. But, making law is like making sausage.. It's pretty ugly.

Since Medicare for all could be written on one page, I don't like that the sausage making took up 1200 pages.

I DON'T like that, as a member of the middle class, MY costs will go up to pay for it... But, I'm MORE than willing to do it for the reasons above. I think THIS is major difference between us.

Now, if there really ARE death panels, then it should be sh!tcanned. If it's going to bankrupt the nation, it should be discarded. If it's a trainwreck, then it should be repealed.. But, I don't BELIEVE any of that.

Of course, it's big, comprehensive, and some parts may not work like the authors thought it would, and I've spoken about tweaking it. But, in the main, it looks like it's going to DO the job it was intended to do.

Excon

That's a pretty rosy prediction. How many of those youngun's are going to bypass buying a policy and just fork over the $95 penalty?

Of course, it's big, comprehensive, and some parts may not work like the authors thought it would, and I've spoken about tweaking it. But, in the main, it looks like it's going to DO the job it was intended to do.

excon

That's what they are afraid of. It will work and work well and make them look like loud mouth idiots.

LOL, can you imagine winning the house and senate in 2014, and the presidency in 2016, and can't bullsh1t the people about repealing Medicare, Social Security, OR Obama Care? Well repeal is their whole campaign. What else can Cruz run on?

Hello again, Steve:

How many of those youngun's are going to bypass buying a policy and just fork over the $95 penalty?I don't know. I'm not an actuary. But, actuary's who work for insurance companies think they'll be enough, and they think they'll be profitable too. Otherwise, they wouldn't be offering 'em for sale.

But, that IS the question. When I was a young'un, I was covered by my employer, and when I wasn't working, I WORRIED a lot about what could happen to me. If CHEAP insurance would have been available to me during those times, I wouda bought it. Now, I'm a guy who's driven without car insurance when I couldn't afford it. But, I had no assets and nothing to lose, and car insurance didn't protect ME anyway.. It protected the OTHER guy.

But, if I didn't have health insurance, I'M the only loser.

Speaking about losing because you don't have health insurance, what do you think about the ads running by right wingers, trying to tell YOUNG people NOT to get it?? I think it's despicable, cruel, and par for the course.

Excon

Speaking about losing because you don't have health insurance, what do you think about the adds running by right wingers, trying to tell YOUNG people NOT to get it???? I think it's despicable, cruel, and par for the course.

excon

I have no idea what you're referring to.

I know members of Congress and the Senate are telling staffers not to sign on because an exemption is pending .

I know members of Congress and the Senate are telling staffers not to sign on because an exemption is pending .

And there's your first clue that there is something fishy with Obamacare, the people that wrote it don't want any part of it.

Hello again, Steve:

So, you bought the whole GOVERNMENT takeover of health care, crap, huh? Bummer for you. Look. This is simple.. Obamacare isn't for people who have employer provided health insurance. It's for people who DON'T have insurance.. The Senate staff are ALL employed and HAVE excellent government provided health care... They don't need Obamacare, and won't ever sign up for Obamacare...

No wonder you don't like it. You have no idea what it IS.

excon

Wrong . Congress and staffers are required by the law to sign onto the exchanges. The emperor decreed that since staffers were previously covered by a congressional plan ,they will continue to receive the employer contribution part of their previous plan to help them buy into the exchanges.It's an exemption decreed by the executive that is not in the law. Sen Vitter has drafted legislation to get rid of the exemption.

Edit... technically what they are getting is in effect a subsidy and not an exemption. But some members of Congress want Congress and their staffers to be exempt from the law.

Want to get rid of Obamacare... put in a bill that clearly states there will be no subsidies. wavers or exemptions for anyone or any group... and EVERYONE from the White house on down WILL have it...

See how quck the Dems vote to get rid of it them so they won't have to explain why they are special and above what they are inflicting on everyone else.

Want to get rid of Obamacare...put in a bill that clearly states there will be no subsidies., wavers or exemptions for anyone or any group...and EVERYONE from the White house on down WILL have it.......
Medicare for everyone!

Hello again, Steve:

So, you bought the whole GOVERNMENT takeover of health care, crap, huh? Bummer for you. Look. This is simple.. Obamacare isn't for people who have employer provided health insurance. It's for people who DON'T have insurance.. The Senate staff are ALL employed and HAVE excellent government provided health care... They don't need Obamacare, and won't ever sign up for Obamacare...

No wonder you don't like it. You have no idea what it IS.

Excon

Huh? How did you get the "whole government takeover" thing from me saying the people that wrote don't want any part of it? I know what it is, don't condescend to me or speak for me about it. The only real point I've been making for months other than those on the contraceptive mandate is the law is a disaster.

I haven't had to say a thing, all I've been doing in essence is posting the news but regardless of the source you guys blow it all off as just needing a few tweaks and that soon we'll all be holding hands and singing Kum-Ba-Ya over how wonderful it is. Wrong, we've been lied to repeatedly and you guys don't give a crap about the monumental tax increases that weren't t really tax increases, the forced change in policies we were supposed to be able to keep, fewer options on care and how it's been shown repeatedly it's made costs rise dramatically.

ffYZ-5ZZa_k


“Well the biggest thing I’ve learned about the Affordable Care Act is it’s certainly not affordable,” said Steve Staub, owner of Staub Manufacturing who make laser cut parts for a variety of industries from food vendors to the auto industry.

Staub says due to the Affordable Care Act, he may have to make precision cuts to the health plan he provides for his 25 employees.

He said he currently pays 80 percent of his employees health care costs but his rates have already shot-up nearly 20 percent. “When I called the company to ask why they said it’s strictly to get ready for Obamacare,” Staub replied.

Dave Freimuth of JBK Manufacturing, an aerospace contractor on Troy Street is in a similar position with his small business that employs 38 people.

His company provides nearly 90 percent of their employees health care costs. He said he’s glad the Affordable Care Act will help the uninsured, but at what cost?

“Anytime the government gets involved the costs go up,” Freimuth added, “Some companies in the industry are dropping health care plans all together and giving their employees a pay-off, letting them fend for themselves in the new health care market place.”

Both feel increased health care costs will have to be passed along to their clients, which they fear may make American companies less competitive globally.

But I know, you're a much smarter business guy than all these other people, or they're all just liars. But to totally trash the system we had to TRY and cover the 15% who didn't have insurance was OVERKILL, a complex, costly mess and come Tuesday, still won't be ready. Thousands and thousands of workers who once had full time jobs won't, who once had great, affordable employer sponsored coverage will be tossed to the exchanges and you don't bat an eye. It could have been done much better, but you aren't interested in that, you have an agenda, and to hell with the consequences.

Has he shopped around for a better deal on his state exchange? Willing to bet most small businesses have not... yet.

Thank you for making my point for me again.

More than welcome :)

Here's another shot at it, my friend.

Some Nebraskans’ premiums to triple under ObamaCare (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/27/some-nebraskans-premiums-to-triple-under-obamacare/)


Todd Blome's phone has been ringing off the hook this week with clients seeking tax advice after learning they'll get a "shocking increase" in their health insurance premiums when Obamacare's health insurance exchanges begin operating.

Letters have been landing in mailboxes all over Nebraska explaining the impact Obamacare will have on people who buy insurance coverage on their own, rather than through work.

Blome, a Lincoln accountant, understands: He got a letter, too.

Blue Cross Blue Shield Nebraska informed Blome his health care plan will terminate at year's end, and if he wants to move to a similar plan his new premium will go up 65 percent, costing him nearly $4,000 more per year.

He distinctly remembers President Obama looking into TV cameras and assuring Americans they would be able to keep their doctors, and policies.

His letter says otherwise.

"Stupid me, I took the president literally," Blome said.

But, but, it's the AFFORDABLE Care Act and I can KEEP my plan if I like it.

But, but, it's the AFFORDABLE Care Act and I can KEEP my plan if I like it.
I hope those dopey companies eventually realize they won't have any insureds after people actually listen to them and switch companies. They are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Ah, so the evil insurance companies are really just dopey?

Its those companies you like jacking the prices up, knowing full well that every state has an exchange going. And another thing is they are part of the exchange. If not the parent company, then a wholly own subsidiary.

I know its because of Obama Care, or so the story goes. But it's a notable observation to consider large companies are not reporting the same rises in premiums, just individuals and small businesses.

Wonder why that is?

I can only conclude that in the left's view everyone who opposes Obamacare, all who complain about the fact their premiums are skyrocketing, who can't keep their plans as promised (except unions), who note ACA will limit our choices (including the NY Times), who care that it is the largest tax increase in history, hate that it violates their first amendment rights, are being forced into part time jobs and insurance companies themselves are all stupid. And we should be thankful for all you smart libs being there to take care of all us idiots.

And we should be thankful for all you smart libs being there to take care of all us idiots.


And at last speech a breakthrough, man! You've got, you've really got it, and how long did it take to come to this glorious conclusion?

Now armed with this information you should be able to make inroads into the diabolical plan of the enemy, if you could just work out who the ernermey is

Dem Senator Joe Manchin has indicated that he would vote for a 1 year delay of implementation of the personal mandate. If a few more Dem Senators from 'Red States' can be turned then it's possible that a delay can be passed in the Senate . Logically ;given all the known glitches that will occur at this time ,and concluding that there are plenty more unknown glitches that could cripple the implementation ,a delay is a no brainer. And it would be the "fair" thing to do given that the corporate mandates were delayed for a year.
Word is that Bonehead is prepared to send the CR back to the Senate with the delay as a provision . He should do that immediately upon receiving the CR passed by the Senate ,with the defunding language stripped of the bill.

Why not a clean bill, and battle it out later? Because you guys are desperate and think you can use the full faith and credit of the US to leverage a last gasp chance to derail Obama Care.

How about an up or down vote on the Senate bill? Naw, you don't get the blood you want from that either. Hmmm, if only Obama caves to the TParty, after all what can happen in a year? Fix the glitches, he would be a fool to think your side will help with that.

You won't win unless you do the two things I have outlined. America will be pissed at the whole government for a shutdown, and you know it. Some will be blamed more than others.

I know this strategy looks good on paper, but it's a lousy idea, and Americans ain't stupid. Let the hostage go, fight another day.

Why not a clean bill, and battle it out later? Because you guys are desperate and think you can use the full faith and credit of the US to leverage a last gasp chance to derail Obama Care.
What nonsense . Not passing a CR will have no effect on the US credit rating . At worse there will be a temporary gvt shut down until the emperor and Reid comes to their senses.
But speaking about toying with the credit rating of the government ,the emperor's Treasury dept has been lying for months about the level of debt we are carrying . The US debt has been stuck at the same($16,699,396,000,000) number for over 4 months . Do you believe it ?

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I, therefore, intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt.
The emperor 2006

"Now, this debt ceiling -- I just want to remind people in case you haven't been keeping up -- raising the debt ceiling, which has been done over a hundred times, does not increase our debt -
The emperor 2013

I guess it doesn't bother you at all that the emperor is willing to get on the horn and talk to the "moderate " President of Iran ,but has not done any negotiating with Capitol Hill at all over this so called impending fiscal crisis ? For that matter ,the Repubics were completely shut out of negotiations leading up to the Obamacare "vote" . The cr@p sandwich is all Democrat made .

I guess it doesn't bother you at all that the emperor is willing to get on the horn and talk to the "moderate " President of Iran ,but has not done any negotiating with Capitol Hill at all over this so called impending fiscal crisis ? For that matter ,the Repubics were completely shut out of negotiations leading up to the Obamacare "vote" . The cr@p sandwich is all Democrat made .

Yeah I have more...
So instead of negotiating to get his polices like LBJ did ,the emperor's senior adviser Dan Pfeiffer called Repubics Terrorists, Kidnappers, and Arsonists . Others have used language like 'holding the country hostage' and 'strapping on suicide belts'. Yesterday ,like Tal ,the emperor tried the equate the consequences of not passing a CR with damaging America's credit rating... a blatant lie. These are the bully tactics of a street thug community organizer ,not a President.

Hyperbole which is another term for...

Hello again, tom:

I guess it doesn't bother you at all that the emperor is willing to get on the horn and talk to the "moderate " President of Iran ,but has not done any negotiating with Capitol Hill at all over this so called impending fiscal crisis ? What particular part of democracy do you NOT understand?? The bill was PASSED into law. Any negotiations should have occurred then. If you didn't have a majority to WARRANT being negotiated WITH, you should have won a few more races.

So, the bill was passed into law. The Supreme Court said it was Constitutional. That's how our system is designed to work, and that's what happened. Therefore, according to OUR system of government, there's NO negotiations available.

Now, you can SNIVEL, and you can SQUEAL, but Obamacare is LAW!!

Excon

Bs .the law has been modified by decree many times already ,even after the SCOTUS decision . The most recent one was the emperor deciding on his own that Congress had a subsidy that was not written into the law. Is that fair? I don't think so. At the very least, that subsidy should have passed by Congress, the legislative body the last time that I read the US Constitution.
Did the "law of the land" include that when it was presented to The Supreme Court? No, it was added by executive decree, along with all of the waivers.
The left cracks me up . How many times have they worked to amend and change laws they don't agree with ? But any law they approve of is somehow codified on stone tablets for all time . It don't work that way and you know it .

The left cracks me up . How many times have they worked to amend and change laws they don't agree with ? But any law they approve of is somehow codified on stone tablets for all time . It don't work that way and you know it .

You are right Tom, anything this president and congress (or a mayor) does is subject to change in the next election. That is the way it works. Nothing is written in stone.

That makes your argument MOOT.

What you think I didn't beeyatch through Nixon, Reagan and the Bushes? Yeah I did, for all the good it did. Enjoy your turn at beeyatching.

Nahh ;your side did much more than "beeyatching. " . They actively promoted and crafted legislation... working to change laws they didn't like and stalling agendas of the President. That is what opposition parties do, You just think it's strange that we don't all goose step at the emperor's command .

Hello again,

Many of our competitors are burdened with having to pay for their employees health care. So, if our employers no longer have to pay for health care, wouldn't that make them more competitive on the world markets?

Why isn't that a good thing?

excon

Hello again,

Many of our competitors are burdened with having to pay for their employees health care. So, if our employers no longer have to pay for health care, wouldn't that make them more competitive on the world markets?

Why isn't that a good thing?

excon

DO you think its free? Who exactly do you think pays for it?

And exactly where has the government proven to be efficient at anything... besides wasting money?

Hello again,

Many of our competitors are burdened with having to pay for their employees health care. So, if our employers no longer have to pay for health care, wouldn't that make them more competitive on the world markets?

Why isn't that a good thing?

excon

It is a good thing ex, those slave workers in Bangladesh that have taken the exported jobs don't get health coverage. If you want to be competitive you have to stop the B/S and stop paying yourselves too much. You also have to get a different system because the one you have is proving unsustainable. The question becomes how many of your workers contribute to export industries, you might find it is a surprisingly small percentage so why should you sacrifice a benefit for improving the lot of a few. You shot yourself in the foot when you let your industries go offshore, so now you need new industries and forget the old. We had to do it, you have to do it.

Hello again,

Many of our competitors are burdened with having to pay for their employees health care. So, if our employers no longer have to pay for health care, wouldn't that make them more competitive on the world markets?

Why isn't that a good thing?

excon

What, you're excusing greedy corporations for dumping employees on the exchanges? Those heartless b@stards.

Btw, told my son this morning he would have to get insurance or pay a fine, he wasn't happy. He's really not going to be happy when his $95 penalty jumps to $695 a couple of years from now. For a family of four that penalty can be $2,085. And in 10 years the CBO estimates that 31 million people will still be without insurance, so yeah, Obamacare is AWESOME!

If he has his own computer he can shop on line. Today. He has until April to actually buy something.

If he has his own computer he can shop on line. Today. He has until April to actually buy something.

You don't get it, he doesn't want to buy insurance and now he has to or get fined. What, you really think everyone just can't wait for Zerocare to kick in?

Then give him 95 bucks and hope he doesn't get into an accident. What's the big deal? Obey the law or don't. Lots of things I don't like, but have to obey the law. So do you.

Then give him 95 bucks and hope he doesn't get into an accident. What's the big deal? Obey the law or don't. Lots of things I don't like, but have to obey the law. So do you.

More of your "live and let live" motto in action.

Then give him 95 bucks and hope he doesn't get into an accident. What's the big deal? Obey the law or don't. Lots of things I don't like, but have to obey the law. So do you.

I am hearing that the software isn't working... what the emperor calls "glitches " .
President Obama: Expect months of 'glitches' - POLITICO.com (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/obamacare-rollout-president-obama-interview-97613.html)

The exchange software, which costs taxpayers $88 million, still can’t correctly calculate the amount of subsidies that an individual applicant is eligible for. I think Speech's son should apply for the max subsidy.. He may get his health care for free .

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uWDjt4N_sLk/TqL_BBA7PGI/AAAAAAAAFFA/Kr2cke_6oQ0/s640/from-FREEDOM-to-FREEBIES-alt-small1.png

More of your "live and let live" motto in action.

Do I really have to add within the law to every post, opinion, or comment?


I am hearing that the software aint working ....what the emperor calls "glitches " .
President Obama: Expect months of 'glitches' - POLITICO.com (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/obamacare-rollout-president-obama-interview-97613.html)

The exchange software, which costs taxpayers $88 million, still can’t correctly calculate the amount of subsidies that an individual applicant is eligible for. I think Speech's son should apply for the max subsidy .. He may get his health care for free .

Every new app/technology has glitches to work out, challenging yes, doable of course. Ask Microsoft or Apple. And then we have a learning curve to learn how to use it, and the people will judge so stop crying. But I guess we can expect hollering from the right over everything after one day. I mean you have been hollering for 5 years already about everything.

Do I really have to add within the law to every post, opinion, or comment?

Sure, it sounds better than "nyah, nyah, get over it bucko, we won."


Every new app/technology has glitches to work out, challenging yes, doable of course. Ask Microsoft or Apple. And then we have a learning curve to learn how to use it, and the people will judge so stop crying. But I guess we can expect hollering from the right over everything after one day. I mean you have been hollering for 5 years already about everything.

Dude, they had all these years to be ready and rolled out Microsoft Bob (http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1991915_1991909_1991855,00.html).

http://www.politifake.org/image/political/1205/oooops-the-truth-comes-out-politics-1338339520.jpg

http://dailyworldwatch.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/obama_supporters.jpg

http://therionorteline.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/liberal-thoughts.jpg

http://www.secretsofthefed.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/cartoon_obamacare_pixie.jpg

http://i0.wp.com/www.ldjackson.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/obamacare-exemptions.png

Smoothy sure does epitomize the right-wingers.

http://rightwingpatriot.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/images-socialized-medicine.jpg

And for those who still believe its free and they can get something for nothing...

http://poundthedrum.com/file_upload/news/1306434937special_obamacare_in_pictures4_2160.jpg

Your graph on Ontario wait times is completely false and meaningless - for which surgical procedures?
Where is your source?
I can point you to the exact current source but I'd rather wait for yours first just to see.

Its on the graph.

Graph is wrong then. Where did the graphic come from?
You didn't do your own research for the facts? You just copy/paste a picture?

Graph is wrong then. Where did the graphic come from?
You didn't do your own research for the facts? You just copy/paste a picture?

Oh... so if it shows the Canadian system for what it is... its fake... but if its propaganda... then it is real?

Care to explain why the Prime Minister paid for surgery in the USA if your system was such the envy of the world?"

Its on the graph.
I checked wait times for various surgeries and procedures. That chart is either grossly out of date or has been tweaked to make Ontario look bad. I checked the official Canadian Ministry wait time site.

The wait times are much less than those on the graph and even better than current U.S. wait times.

During my breast cancer adventure in 2009 and after tons of research about my particular situation, I had requested and was allowed the Canadian protocol for radiation treatments (Canadian 16 treatments vs. U.S. 35 treatments). Because of my research and discussion with their cancer committee, my hospital is now individualizing breast cancer radiation treatments and giving patients options instead of a "one size fits all" treatment. Thank you, Canada!

(That chart is from rightwingpatriot.com.)

so if it shows the Canadian system for what it isIt doesn't - it's false propaganda that you are disseminating.

It doesn't - it's false propaganda that you are disseminating.

BS... and I suppose this article is false propaganda too


Canadian Health Care In Crisis - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-204_162-681801.html)

http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/02/19/when-it-comes-to-waiting-canada-is-last-in-line-2/

http://www.heritage.org/research/lecture/the-top-ten-things-people-believe-about-canadian-health-care-but-shouldnt

BS...and I suppose this article is false propaganda too


Canadian Health Care In Crisis - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-204_162-681801.html)


How about finding current information. This was back on February 11, 2009.

The Top Ten Things People Believe About Canadian Health Care, But Shouldn't (http://www.heritage.org/research/lecture/the-top-ten-things-people-believe-about-canadian-health-care-but-shouldnt)
November 10, 2004

How about finding current information. This was back on February 11, 2009.

Its still valid...

And more proof of horrific wait times for treatment... well horrific if you are used to getting things done when you need them in the USA anyway.

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uploadedFiles/fraser-ca/Content/research-news/research/publications/waiting-your-turn-2012.pdf

Of course you would find a survey by a shill for oil companies and rich energy guys.

Of course you would find a survey by a shill for oil companies and rich energy guys.

Better than propaganda from someone with an agenda to make it look better than it is.

But then you believe Obamas propaganda on Obamacare... like he has any motive to be honest about it?

Better than propaganda from someone with an agenda to make it look better than it is.

But then you believe Obamas propaganda on Obamacare....like he has any motive to be honest about it?

The above does not make much sense.

Can you explain to me how propaganda from someone who wants to make things worse then they are is better propaganda when it comes from someone who wants to make things look better than they are?

Hello again:

I don't know if Obama ever said "I WON", to the Republicans, as in he's going to DO what he wants... That would be unbelievably arrogant of him, since he hadn't passed a single bill YET...

But that was then, and this is NOW. Today, I think it would be PERFECTLY appropriate to tell the Republicans, the ACA IS the LAW. Let's move on.

That WOULDN'T be arrogant at all. It would BE the TRUTH.

excon

The above does not make much sense.

Can you explain to me how propaganda from someone who wants to make things worse then they are is better propaganda when it comes from someone who wants to make things look better than they are?

If you actually lived on this side of the planet... it would be obvious what I said... your distance from the problem means you won't see it the way those of us who see it everyday will. Just as we won't see the issues in Australia in the same way you will.

Hello smoothy:

If you actually lived on this side of the planet... it would be obvious what I said... In other words, you got nothing.

Excon

Hello smoothy:
In other words, you got nothing.

excon

Nope... its absolutely obvious to anyone who can think that lives here...


But it won't be to someone on the other side of the Planet.

smoothy gets called on nonsense and asked to explain - as usual can't explain it and goes on the offensive insulting people. Same stuff, different day.

Yep, it's law and I can already tell you that 100% of the youngun's you need enrolled that I've spoken with about it since yesterday are pi$$ed. Plus, it's the government and the feds suck at most everything. Day one and besides the non-functioning websites, 2400 people had their private data leaked (http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/14/obamacare-exchange-leaks-data-of-2400-unsuspecting-customers/#ixzz2gWeJ753F). That we know of.

Hello again, Steve:

Yeah, it has glitches...

Yawwwwwn..

excon

Hitlers Nazi Gerrmany had a few glitches too.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Godwin_WikiWorld.png

Maybe because its true...

Not everything about Nazi germany was bad... but they did pull a couple of whoppers (the final solution as well as invading other countries.).

Hello again, Steve:

Yeah, it has glitches...

Yawwwwwn..

excon

Glitches? 2400 people potentially had their lives stolen on day one and you call that a glitch? Having your identity stolen is no glitch, that's hell.

So you have gone from data leaked to identity stolen. Let me know when it gets to abducted by aliens or replaced by pod people.

Just pointing out the exaggerations on your part, that justifies me calling you guys squealers, and howlers.

So you have gone from data leaked to identity stolen. Let me know when it gets to abducted by aliens or replaced by pod people.

Just pointing out the exagerations on your part, that justifies me calling you guys squealers, and hollerers.

Guess you missed that word "potentially" in there. Or was that just an intentional exaggeration on your part?

Should I have said your potential exaggeration, and howling? Naw, sounds better my way.

Every new app/technology has glitches to work out, challenging yes, doable of course. Ask Microsoft or Apple.
Oh I believe that if an Apple operating system was unusable the day it was introduced there would be a whole bunch of ex-Apple employees.

Oh I believe that if an Apple operating system was unusable the day it was introduced there would be a whole bunch of ex-Apple employees.
The ACA operating system is unusable? If anything, yesterday and today will sharpen up the system. Each day will give cues to sharpen more.

Hello again, tom:

Oh I believe that if an Apple operating system was unusable the day it was introduced there would be a whole bunch of ex-Apple employees.It's true. But, they wouldn't have pulled the product back.. They just would have fixed it. Plus, I wouldn't be surprised if a whole lot of Obamacare roll out dufus's get fired too.

But, he's NOT going to delay, it, defund it, or repeal it. When you want to talk about FIXING it, you'll have a welcome audience. But, that ain't what you want to do. You've NEVER wanted to do that.

Excon

It's true. But, they wouldn't have pulled the product back.. They just would have fixed it. Plus, I wouldn't be surprised if a whole lot of Obamacare roll out dufus's get fired too.
California ;a state that was gung-ho for the whole thing from the git-go had the max time to prepare their exchanges ;and also the best minds in silicon valley to develop the software and systems . Well that was full of glitches... Now all the reports we are hearing is about glitches in all the states... we have heard nothing about the integration of all of them into a national data base (hint ;the IRS is still using 1970s and 1980s computers

And just a warning for all. There are bogus phishing sites all over the web .

Copy that on bogus sites and scammers.

Apparently the system worked flawlessly in Florida (http://www.nytimes.com/news/affordable-care-act/2013/10/01/at-a-miami-health-center-told-to-come-back-another-day/?_r=2).

Maybe because its true................

Not everything about Nazi germany was bad........but they did pull a couple of whoppers (the final solution as well as invading other countries.).


Perhaps you could give us some examples of things that were not bad. Maybe, the "feeble-minded" legislation(s) is one you had in mind.

Perhaps you could give us some examples of things that were not bad. Maybe, the "feeble-minded" legislation(s) is one you had in mind.

Well Tutt just maybe they way they got youth off its backside and participating is something we could get a take on in this age, but we must remember the bad aspects are never far away

Perhaps you could give us some examples of things that were not bad. Maybe, the "feeble-minded" legislation(s) is one you had in mind.

Look at the Autobahn system... that was mostly designed and build in the 1930's when most cars were pathetically slow.

But here is a list of only 10 of the many..

http://listverse.com/2011/01/31/top-10-things-the-nazis-got-right/

Or these..

He wrote first law of protecting the animals.
He started first checking of drunk drivers.
Organized crime was brought to 0% during his time.
He created ecologic laws for protecting water, earth and air.
For the first time in history workers had paid vacations.
After death of Fritz Todt he created black box for airplanes.
He prohibited selling of cigarettes to women.
He prohibited smoking to people in uniforms and persons under the age of 18.
He also prohibited smoking in public areas.
He first placed photos of lungs etc. on cigarette boxes.
He is the founder of Volskwagen (people cars), and the designer of VW beetles, the world nr 1 saled car.
He fighted Breast Cancer and Lung Cancer.
The first freeways in the world were built in Germany. Autobahn ("The whole world came, and saw, and copied.").
He saved Germany from unemployment and financial ruin.
He Promoted of architecture,music and the arts;
First epic olympic games were held in 1936-Germany
World's first research linking smoking and cancer thanks to Hitler;
An Affordable Vacation is your right, thanks to Adolf
Women's rights
Homes with gardens. No more "rabbit-warrens".
Under the guidance of the Reich, Europe would speedily have become unified.
He free the German media, German education, Geman finance, German politics, German culture from the Jews and all communists who wanted to transform Germany into a ruined country under soviet power.
Reunited all German speaking langues into Großdeutsches Reich
Protection of animals and
During his reign Germany was the most powerful state in the world
Greatest tehnology in human history was developed by Third Reich (first jet fighters, bombers, first stealth plane, first stealth submarine, first rockets, nuclear weapons, orbitals bombers, first helicopters, first flying disk, first TV programs, first 3d movies, first rifles and the list can go on... )


Nobody is ignoring the bad he did... but that's stuff everyone knows already.

Oh I believe that if an Apple operating system was unusable the day it was introduced there would be a whole bunch of ex-Apple employees.

Actually that isn't true. Look at Apples history and then look at the Apple Lisa. Or in the news as of late Micrsoft with its release of Win8. Bad bad mistakes.

Look at the Autobahn system.....that was mostly designed and build in the 1930's when most cars were pathetically slow.

But here is a list of only 10 of the many..

Top 10 Things The Nazis Got Right - Listverse (http://listverse.com/2011/01/31/top-10-things-the-nazis-got-right/)

or these..

He wrote first law of protecting the animals.
He started first checking of drunk drivers.
Organized crime was brought to 0% during his time.
He created ecologic laws for protecting water, earth and air.
For the first time in history workers had payed vacations.
After death of Fritz Todt he created black box for airplanes.
He prohibited selling of cigarettes to women.
He prohibited smoking to people in uniforms and persons under the age of 18.
He also prohibited smoking in public areas.
He first placed photos of lungs etc. on cigarette boxes.
He is the founder of Volskwagen (people cars), and the designer of VW beetles, the world nr 1 saled car.
He fighted Breast Cancer and Lung Cancer.
The first freeways in the world were built in Germany. Autobahn ("The whole world came, and saw, and copied.").
He saved Germany from unemployment and financial ruin.
He Promoted of architecture,music and the arts;
first epic olympic games were held in 1936-Germany
World's first research linking smoking and cancer thx to Hitler;
An Affordable Vacation is your right, thanks to Adolf
women's rights
Homes with gardens. No more "rabbit-warrens".
Under the guidance of the Reich, Europe would speedily have become unified.
he free the German media, German education, Geman finance, German politics, German culture from the Jews and all communists who wanted to transform Germany into a ruined country under soviet power.
Reunited all German speaking langues into Großdeutsches Reich
protection of animals and
During his reign Germany was the most powerful state in the world
greatest tehnology in human history was developed by Third Reich (first jet fighters, bombers, first stealth plane, first stealth submarine, first rockets, nuclear weapons, orbitals bombers, first helicopters, first flying disk, first tv programs, first 3d movies, first rifles and the list can go on ..............)



Apparently you are correct. I will keep this stuff in mind next time I am driving a volkswagen down an autobahn not smoking a cigarette.

As hinted in my earlier post I am interested in the social policies in relation to race,culture and ethnicity you think he got right. It is just a simple matter of saying you don't think he got any of these right. It is a simple as that.




Nobody is ignoring the bad he did.....but thats stuff everyone knows already.


You think so?


P.S. In relation to your 6th point. How can someone create a black box for aircraft after they they have died?

Also, I though it was an Australian who invented the black box recorded was an Australian invention.


Don't worry about it. I just worked out who the ubiquitous "he" is in your list.

Actually that isnt true. Look at Apples history and then look at the Apple Lisa. Or in the news as of late Micrsoft with its release of Win8. Bad bad mistakes.

I stand corrected... Windows 8 sucks and is unusable and yet it still sells. I am working on one right now and only use the Desktop feature.

I stand corrected ... Windows 8 sucks and is unusable and yet it still sells. I am working on one right now and only use the Desktop feature.

Windows 8 could be a whole other thread. Its sad. That is why Im still holding on dearly to Win7 ultra.

Look at the Autobahn system.....that was mostly designed and build in the 1930's when most cars were pathetically slow.

But here is a list of only 10 of the many..

Top 10 Things The Nazis Got Right - Listverse (http://listverse.com/2011/01/31/top-10-things-the-nazis-got-right/)

or these..

He wrote first law of protecting the animals.
He started first checking of drunk drivers.
Organized crime was brought to 0% during his time.
He created ecologic laws for protecting water, earth and air.
For the first time in history workers had payed vacations.
After death of Fritz Todt he created black box for airplanes.
He prohibited selling of cigarettes to women.
He prohibited smoking to people in uniforms and persons under the age of 18.
He also prohibited smoking in public areas.
He first placed photos of lungs etc. on cigarette boxes.
He is the founder of Volskwagen (people cars), and the designer of VW beetles, the world nr 1 saled car.
He fighted Breast Cancer and Lung Cancer.
The first freeways in the world were built in Germany. Autobahn ("The whole world came, and saw, and copied.").
He saved Germany from unemployment and financial ruin.
He Promoted of architecture,music and the arts;
first epic olympic games were held in 1936-Germany
World's first research linking smoking and cancer thx to Hitler;
An Affordable Vacation is your right, thanks to Adolf
women's rights
Homes with gardens. No more "rabbit-warrens".
Under the guidance of the Reich, Europe would speedily have become unified.
he free the German media, German education, Geman finance, German politics, German culture from the Jews and all communists who wanted to transform Germany into a ruined country under soviet power.
Reunited all German speaking langues into Großdeutsches Reich
protection of animals and
During his reign Germany was the most powerful state in the world
greatest tehnology in human history was developed by Third Reich (first jet fighters, bombers, first stealth plane, first stealth submarine, first rockets, nuclear weapons, orbitals bombers, first helicopters, first flying disk, first tv programs, first 3d movies, first rifles and the list can go on ..............)


Nobody is ignoring the bad he did.....but thats stuff everyone knows already.

If I understand you correctly you are telling us we are all living in a post Nazi utopia and should thank AH. I have travelled on the autobahns, can't say I enjoyed the experience, I used to own a VW a long time ago and I came to know what Hitlers revenge means and these war time advances in weaponry were used to kill people so not good, you also forget to say he was a racist B@stard who carried out the mass extermination of a race, you cannot just classify that under bad

If I understand you correctly you are telling us we are all living in a post Nazi utopia and should thank AH. I have travelled on the autobahns, can't say I enjoyed the experience, I used to own a VW a long time ago and I came to know what Hitlers revenge means and these war time advances in weaponry were used to kill people so not good, you also forget to say he was a racist B@stard who carried out the mass extermination of a race, you cannot just classify that under bad
The request was for the good things he did... the list was limited to that. Also take time to read the last sentence... its in the quote.

I've also traveled the autobahns... In Austria AND Germany... they sucked in Austria (bumpy expansion joints)... but they were freaking awesome in Germany (at least the parts that were once WEST Germany). And I've been east west north and south on them.

The request was for the good things he did....the list was limited to that. Also take time to read the last sentence....its in the quote.

I've also traveled the autobahns....In Austria AND Germany.....they sucked in Austria (bumpy expansion joints) ...but they were freaking awesome in Germany (at least the parts that were once WEST Germany). And I've been east west north and south on them.

I don't know where you travelled on them but I travelled from Switzerland right through the Rhineland to Holland before the fall of the wall and the only place I found them to be of good standard was near the Dutch border, but then I wasn't tarvelling in a high speed car and had to contend with the trucks

As far as I'm concerned anything to do with Nazi is not good, some outcomes may have been all right for the time but the thinking stinks. Who wants to live in a national socialist homerginised state. Zieg Heil and all that crap

I don't know where you travelled on them but I travelled from Switzerland right through the Rhineland to Holland before the fall of the wall and the only place i found them to be of good standard was near the Dutch border, but then I wasn't tarvelling in a high speed car and had to contend with the trucks

As far as I'm concerned anything to do with Nazi is not good, some outcomes may have been alright for the time but the thinking stinks. who wants to live in a national socialist homerginised state. Zieg Heil and all that crap

When I was on a Autobahn.. I was traveling at prety high speeds over 90 mph... sure there is traffic at certain times of the day... thats to be expected in densely populated areas. But I was talking about the quality of the roads. I traveled most of it in excess of 120 mph. (heck... some of it was in a 1987 VW Jetta, 125 mph in light rain)

I didn't have a Ferrari or what even passed as a sports car... and driving at those speeds was as effortless as 55mph on American Highways.

As far as what the Germans did... your argument would be the same as disregarding the person who finds the cure for cancer... because they once had an accident driving while drunk that had a fatality.

If you are going to acknowledge the bad... you have to acknowledge the good as well.

Apparently the system worked flawlessly in Florida (http://www.nytimes.com/news/affordable-care-act/2013/10/01/at-a-miami-health-center-told-to-come-back-another-day/?_r=2).

NY State claimed they had 30 million visits to their web site.. FYI the population for the state is estimated to be 19.5 million . In contrast ;the White House ,which handles the Federal exchange for 36 states claimed 4.7million hits according to Jake Tapper. They would not say how many enrolled .
Also in constrast was California... which has the most populus state , had 5.7 million hits . Clearly the NY enrollment is working fine .

Hello again, tom:

Yeah, glitches... Yawwwwn.

excon

Hello again, tom:

Yeah, glitches.... Yawwwwn.

excon

Cavuto: Mr. President, we at Fox News are not the problem - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDdmtJCEWPA)

Sleep through this video if you want to .

Hello again, tom:

That video is brought to you by the network who told us about the death panels... Well, that wasn't so. So, I didn't sleep through it. I simply paid it no attention...

The law needs FIXING. But, you don't want to FIX it. You want to DESTROY it. You have from the get go. Nothing you've EVER said about it wound up being so. Oh, it's wieldy. It's complex, and it NEEDS tweaking... But, it NEVER was a "takeover". It NEVER was ANYTHING you've ever said about it.

But, all that's PASSED. It's LAW. Live with it.

excon

NY State claimed they had 30 million visits to their web site .. FYI the population for the state is estimated to be 19.5 million . In contrast ;the White House ,which handles the Federal exchange for 36 states claimed 4.7million hits according to Jake Tapper. They would not say how many enrolled .
Also in constrast was California ....which has the most populus state , had 5.7 million hits . Clearly the NY enrollment is working fine .

Tom you know this is all down to how much access you provide, but it may be that there were problems and therefore multiple attempts to progress

But, you don't wanna FIX it. You wanna DESTROY it. You have from the get go.

Funny, but that's what we were saying about your view of the system we had before you rammed this crap sandwich down our throats.

But, all that's PASSED. It's LAW. Live with it.
That argument of course has always persuaded the lefties .Even when they can't change the laws through legislation or the courts ,they undermine them through executive action ,or ignore them in the bureaucracy.

Since we know you guys never liked the way he handles his job doesn't mean everybody agrees with you and obviously your failure to take his job away should tell you something.

But you guys are good at ignoring facts, and making up your own.

Since we know you guys never liked the way he handles his job doesn't mean everybody agrees with you and obviously your failure to take his job away should tell you something.

But you guys are good at ignoring facts, and making up your own.

You keep porgetting a very slim majority of the vote is NOT equal to the majority of the adult population agreeing...

We don't like the way he's doing anything because he's a blundering buffoon.. And he's screwed up everything that he's touched so far.

I didn't like Clinton when he was in office either... but at least there were some things he did I could agree with... and he didn't screw everything up he touched... only some things.

And MORE proof Obama and his flunkies are illegally using the IRS for retaliation against those who do not bow and lick the Messiahs feet.

Criticizing ObamaCare | Fox News Video (http://video.foxnews.com/v/2715245374001/)

Since we know you guys never liked the way he handles his job doesn't mean everybody agrees with you and obviously your failure to take his job away should tell you something.

But you guys are good at ignoring facts, and making up your own.

And that is how he got elected, ignoring facts and making sh*t up.

And that is how he got elected, ignoring facts and making sh*t up.
And he got elected TWICE when he did that? You really think people are that stupid?

And he got elected TWICE when he did that? You really think people are that stupid?

Actaulyl yes... people are that stupid. Look at a lot of the posts on this site... (not this forum). Heck... just look at half the pregnancy questions alone. Not to mention the people seeing things that aren't there in the Paranormal forum.. people that believe in alien abduction and aliens that are probing their butts usually while drunk or high on something.

Maury Povich and Jerry Springer aren't sham shows... those are real people... they breed and they vote.

Scary... isn't it?

5 million more people believed his stuff than your guys stuff. A FACT, next fact 2014. My side has been dragging your side forward forever. You haven't stopped kicking' and screaming yet, so I doubt you ever will, but don't worry, we will just keep dragging you forward anyway!

>sigh<

Now that's love, and be nice if you guys show some, or at least learn to not be afraid of walking forward. It really ain't that bad, might be fun. :) :D

5 million more people believed his stuff than your guys stuff. A FACT, next fact 2014. My side has been dragging your side forward forever. You haven't stopped kicking' and screaming yet, so I doubt you ever will, but don't worry, we will just keep dragging ya forward anyway!

>sigh<

Now that's love, and be nice if you guys show some, or at least learn to not be afraid of walking forward. It really ain't that bad, might be fun. :) :D

You know tal... every time someone quotes a number... it keeps getting bigger... eventuyally more people will have voted for him than live in India.

Obama only won 51% of the electoral votes... 1% is slim by anyone's count.

You just can't make this s**t up... Does anyone actually THINK in the Democrat party?

http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/03/need-health-care-coverage-just-dial-1-800-yo-to-reach-obamacares-national-hotline/

United States presidential election, 2012 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2012)

5 million votes and 51 to 47% (4%, not 1%)

You can't walk forward, and you can't count, and don't know how to chew your food before swallowing.

United States presidential election, 2012 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2012)

5 million votes and 51 to 47% (4%, not 1%)

You can't walk forward, and you can't count, and don't know how to chew your food before swallowing.

You do grasp that the USA isn't a Democracy... But a Representative republic... and its Electroral votes that put someone i8n office? They teach that in 9th grade Civics class.

336-302 if you prefer. He won no matter what math you use.

336-302 if you prefer. He won no matter what math you use.

Gee, do you concede that Bush actually won too... or do you still think he didn't?

Nobody questions he won, Scotus said so.

Nobody questions he won, Scotus said so.

Odd that we heard the opposite from the left for well over 8 years. And besides the Votes said so long before the scotus ever said it.

Why do you relive history when you have a real crisis to deal with? BO won the election, he there for has a clear mandate, if he got 51% that's a majority, it also means he has a 2% margin.

It is said there are sufficient Republicians in the House to carry a vote but Boehner is held captive by the TParty and won't allow it to go to vote. Childish behaviour and not democracy

5 million more people believed his stuff than your guys stuff. A FACT, next fact 2014. My side has been dragging your side forward forever. You haven't stopped kicking' and screaming yet, so I doubt you ever will, but don't worry, we will just keep dragging ya forward anyway!

>sigh<

Now that's love, and be nice if you guys show some, or at least learn to not be afraid of walking forward. It really ain't that bad, might be fun. :) :D

Lots of foolish people believe propaganda but that doesn't make them smart for voting for that person. It makes them sheeple. Obama and the media gaurded his flock well and fed them BS on a daily basis.

Is it any less BS than the other side feeds it's sheeple?

From where I sit Tal I agree with you its al B/S

why do you relive history when you have a real crisis to deal with? BO won the election, he there for has a clear mandate, if he got 51% that's a majority, it also means he has a 2% margin.

It is said there are sufficient Republicians in the House to carry a vote but Boehner is held captive by the TParty and won't allow it to go to vote. Childish behaviour and not democracy

YOU don't understand how our system works them... we don't have a Parlament... our branches of government are co-equal... meaning the president doesn't get to lord over the underlings... because they aren't subservient to him. They are all slices of the same pie. Legislative, Judicial, and executive branches.

YOU don't understand how our system works them.....we don't have a Parlament...our branches of government are co-equal....meaning the president doesn't get to lord over the underlings...because they aren't subservient to him. They are all slices of the same pie. Legislative, Judicial, and executive branches.

I understand that the idea is that the House initiates a bill, the Senate reviews it and the President assents to it or has the power of veto, and the Court adjudicates when asked to do so. The court can initiate nothing of itself, so not equal in that respect but has ultimate power. It is supposed to work as a cooperative process with checks and balances, with leadership in the President. The idea that they are coequal and the House can run the country is a myth no doubt promelgated by members of the House. What you actually have over there is an attempted coup. If both the House and the Senate decided that the ACA should be repealed, then the President should assent but that hasn't happened. Only the House has attempted this in what they are doing. In our parlance they have refused supply, it is their prorogative but it seems you don't possess our remedy to the empasse

I understand that the idea is that the House initiates a bill, the Senate reviews it and the President assents to it or has the power of veto, and the Court adjudicates when asked to do so. The court can initiate nothing of itself, so not equal in that respect but has ultimate power. It is supposed to work as a cooperative process with checks and balances, with leadership in the President. The idea that they are coequal and the House can run the country is a myth no doubt promelgated by members of the House. What you actually have over there is an attempted coup. If both the House and the Senate decided that the ACA should be repealed, then the President should assent but that hasn't happened. Only the House has attempted this in what they are doing. In our parlance they have refused supply, it is their prorogative but it seems you don't possess our remedy to the empasse

You really don't understand it then... because its actually codified into the constitution... and law as well. But you have a reason as you did not grow up and attend school here to know the nuances and details of our government, only some of the basics. Much the same as why I won't know all the details of Austrailias.

The Duties of the Three Branches of Government (http://www.wisc-online.com/Objects/ViewObject.aspx?ID=SOC5904)

The house doesn't answer to Harry Reid... or the White house... Its Obama that's been prancing around like some Bananna republic dictator... Harry Reid just rants like some mental deficient that's been dropped n his head once too often..

I understand that the Court ajudicated and declared the ACA valid therefore the President through the various departments of government implements it, it is beyond the legislature unless repealed or modified and that takes both houses

The idea that they are coequal and the House can run the country is a myth no doubt promelgated by members of the House... What you actually have over there is an attempted coup.
No ;actually it's in the writings of the founders. All you have to do is see the length and powers designated article 1 compared to the ones designated on article 2 . One could say that the powers of the executive and the judiciary have "evolved " (if you are being kind ) . When you use the word 'coup' however ,you are pointing fingers at the wrong branches .

LOL, enjoy your red meat from Bonehead, there is a time limit on the TParty banquette.

LOL, enjoy your red meat from Bonehead, there is a time limit on the TParty banquette.

Nope... but there is an experation date on Obamas Charm to the easily suckered...

And the maggots won't even touch that any longer.

Is it any less BS than the other side feeds it's sheeple?

They seem to take his word as gospel rather then looking it up or being concerned about what is really going on. Do you actually believe with all the evidence in question and that has been presented that Bengasi was because of a video and what does it matter anyway? You know it was BS that was fed to his sheeple and they ate the slop like it was manna from heaven. According to Obama debt doesn't matter so why worry about it right?

My whole point is the government never should have been shut down over this zeal of defunding/repealing Obama Care. It's a poor excuse considering ALL the lives affected by this action. Now if you don't see that then you have no empathy for the innocent people around the country who pay the price for right wing desperation.

My whole point is the government never should have been shut down over this zeal of defunding/repealing Obama Care. Its a poor excuse considering ALL the lives affected by this action. Now if you don't see that then you have no empathy for the innocent people around the country who pay the price for right wing desperation.

And you have no empathy for the people you are inflicting Obamacare on .

They seem to take his word as gospel rather then looking it up or being concerned about what is really going on. Do you actually beleive with all the evidence in question and that has been presented that Bengasi was because of a video and what does it matter anyway? You know it was BS that was fed to his sheeple and they ate the slop like it was manna from heaven. According to Obama debt doesnt matter so why worry about it right?

Good point . The emperor doesn't give a rat's behind about debt as he plunges the nation over the abyss.

Hello tom:

and you have no empathy for the people you are inflicting Obamacare on I do... At least as much as I have for those whom we inflicted Medicare on.. I feel bad for those for who have to suffer through the GI Bill too.

Bwa, ha ha ha ha.

Excon

and you have no empathy for the people you are inflicting Obamacare on .

We will have to see how many signup for this infliction. But more than 70% of the country is against a shutdown, and more people believe it's the republicans fault. We will see.

We will have to see how many signup for this infliction. But more than 70% of the country is against a shutdown, and more people believe its the republicans fault. We will see.

Not many if they are poor and struggling paycheck to paycheck. How do you expect them to pay for the mandatory healthcare? Don't bother mentioning subsidies. They don't kick in until you have already begun to pay for it. So how are you going to tell these people they can have it their way? It's the government not burger king!!

Just because Obama says so doesn't make it true nor does it deal with the realities that normal people have to face on a daily basis.

Not many if they are poor and struggling paycheck to paycheck. How do you expect them to pay for the mandatory healthcare?
Yeah I read that only three people have signed up so far. Or was it more than that?

Yeah I read that only three people have signed up so far. Or was it more than that?

Five tried... but two of them couldn't navigate the monstrosity.

and you have no empathy for the people you are inflicting Obamacare on .

As I remember right, during and before the 2012 campaign, you advocated for the poor to pay their fair share of taxes and how it wasn't right the 47% paid no taxes, so now all of a sudden you have empathy and they shouldn't pay for health insurance, which you have said is a tax.

Even Smoothy rails against free stuff for poor people, yet now they have to be responsible for their own health, he found some empathy too, and thinks its so unfair they have to pay something for their own benefit.

Seems to me, to be consistent with your own stated positions, Obama Care would be right up both your alleys, or the empathy is a contrived one to bolster your own rant against the evils of progressive policy, and liberal thinking even though you have been delivered the very thing you have pushed so hard for, and loudly for... personal responsibility and the poor paying for their own stuff.

Its not "fair" because the lazy will eventually be subsidized by those who worked hard to get ahead.

Fair means they pay the SAME price anyone else in their category pays regardless of income.

If you went to the store to buy a gallon of milk... why should the price you pay for it be determined by your income level? Where one person pays ten times more for it than another person.. while another gets it for free?

Lol as if the poor will be charged at all. Give it up Tal. Currently there is no verification mechanism at all for the subsidies for people applying in the exchanges. Yet your side is still hell bent to go full steam ahead with this knowing the system isn't close to being properly managed .
I'll say it again... you have no empathy for the people you are inflicting Obamacare on . I'm not talking just about the poor although they too will be adversely affected by this poorly conceived entitlement .No I'm talking about the rest of the country .

As few as 1 in 100 applications on the federal exchange contains enough information to enroll the applicant in a plan, several insurance industry sources told CNBC on Friday. Some of the problems involve how the exchange's software collects and verifies an applicant's data.


"It is extraordinary that these systems weren't ready," said Sumit Nijhawan, CEO of Infogix, which handles data integrity issues for major insurers including WellPoint and Cigna, as well as multiple Blue Cross Blue Shield affiliates.


Experts said that if Healthcare.gov's success rate doesn't improve within the next month or so, federal officials could face a situation in January in which relatively large numbers of people believe they have coverage starting that month, but whose enrollment applications are have not been processed.
"It could be public relations nightmare," said Nijhawan. Insurers have told his company that just "1 in 100" enrollment applicants being sent from the federal marketplace have provided sufficient, verified information.
Most Obamacare enrollment applications flawed (http://www.cnbc.com/id/101087965)

"This is not a traffic issue," Mendelson said. "Right now, the systems aren't working."

When a simple solution is needed you can be assured that a complicated solution will be implemented

Hey... its another example of the Government doing what the government does best... taking something the simply works well... and screwing it up beyond all recognition...

FUBAR was a term coined for use on things like this many decades ago.

yeah but even Apple has FUBARS ...right ?

Tell me where the mandate is for me to purchase an Apple product.

Wow tom, that's a great argument.

Hello tom:

tell me where the mandate is for me to purchase an Apple product.Screw the iPhone.. Let's talk about the mandate on you to BUY a firetruck...

You don't deny that you own a piece of a firetruck, do you? You don't deny that you're FORCED to pay for it, do you?

Nuff said.

Excon

Screw the iPhone.. Let's talk about the mandate on you to BUY a firetruck...

You don't deny that you own a piece of a firetruck, do you? You don't deny that you're FORCED to pay for it, do you?

Nuff said.

Wow, now there's a rational argument. FYI, not every community has a fire truck and thousands are all volunteer - no one is forcing anyone to buy a fire truck in such places.

Hello again, Steve:

FYI, not every community has a fire truck and thousands are all volunteer -Really? What do these volunteers USE to fight these fires?? Buckets?? Do the volunteers bring their OWN, or does your community supply them? Alrighty, then. You own some buckets.

Yes, Steve. EVERY community owns a fire truck, and a school bus, and police cars. And, YOU pay for them whether you LIKE it or not. It's MANDATED.

Besides... Aren't YOU a guy who supports our Constitution?? SCOTUS says the mandate is Constitutional? Or do you Pick which parts of the Constitution you support??

Excon

yeah but even Apple has FUBARS ...right ?

tell me where the mandate is for me to purchase an Apple product.

Show me where I have to pay the costs of you NOT buying an Apple product, and I will show you the cost of paying for the emergency room visit you make with no insurance.

No wonder we have this conflict, you don't know apples from oranges and think it's the same thing. Look closer and see the differences. Taste it if you have too, or smell it.

Let me know what you find out, and don't be stubborn. You have insurance, you don't have a mandate.

Hello again, Steve:
Really? What do these volunteers USE to fight these fires?? Buckets?? Do the volunteers bring their OWN, or does your community supply them? Alrighty, then. You own some buckets.

Yes, Steve. EVERY community owns a fire truck, and a school bus, and police cars. And, YOU pay for them whether you LIKE it or not. It's MANDATED.

Sorry dude but you're just wrong on that, on every point. Not only do some communities not own firetrucks, some who do won't respond if you don't pay them - it isn't mandated. You forget, I work with VFD's all over the region, they rely on donations and grants for the most part.


Besides... Aren't YOU a guy who supports our Constitution?? SCOTUS says the mandate is Constitutional? Or do you Pick which parts of the Constitution you support??

Do you agree with every SCOTUS decision? I didn't think so.

Besides that many if not most School systems don't own a single Bus... they lease them, from a third party who also provides the drivers.

Hello tom:
Screw the iPhone.. Let's talk about the mandate on you to BUY a firetruck...

You don't deny that you own a piece of a firetruck, do you? You don't deny that you're FORCED to pay for it, do you??

Nuff said.

excon

Lol .I'm all for it. Communities have all types of impositions including land use restrictions ,zoning ,tax funding priorities . But the Federal Government is restrained by the US constitution (despite Chief Justice Robert's twisting of it's words ) .

Just 51,000 people completed Obamacare applications during its first week, according to MailOnline, The target for the 6 month open enrollment period is 7 million for the program to be financially feasible. At this rate, they will come up 5 million short.
Administration sources: Obamacare website received just 51,000 completed insurance applications | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2452537/Administration-sources-Obamacare-website-received-just-51-000-completed-insurance-applications.html)

Some people just want to be proven right but human nature being what it is there will be a rush in the last few days. Anyway monolithic software systems are not the solution to social problems

Neither is statism .

I suggest that any form of ism is not a solution

The good news (http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-1013-obamacare-deductibles-20131013,0,7779257.story) just keeps rolling in. Higher premiums, worse coverage, less money in your pocket - and it's all mandated.


Adam Weldzius, a nurse practitioner, considers himself better informed than most when it comes to the inner workings of health insurance. But even he wasn’t prepared for the pocketbook hit he’ll face next year under President Barack Obama’s health care overhaul.

If the 33-year-old single father wants the same level of coverage next year as what he has now with the same insurer and the same network of doctors and hospitals, his monthly premium of $233 will more than double. If he wants to keep his monthly payments in check, the Carpentersville resident is looking at an annual deductible for himself and his 7-year-old daughter of $12,700, a more than threefold increase from $3,500 today.

“I believe everybody should be able to have health insurance, but at the same time, I’m being penalized. And for what?” said Weldzius, who is not offered insurance through his employer. “For someone who’s always had insurance, who’s always taken care of myself, now I have to change my plan?”

But, but, if you like your insurance you can KEEP it! I guess we'll all have to make less so we can afford health care now.

60% of Americans have employer based insurance. They already meet the new law requirements (98% do any way,the rest have a years to do so.)

15% of Americans have NO insurance. They have until April to do so.

25% of Americans buy their own insurance as individuals. Two options, pay the open market rates, or pay the exchange rates.

States that expand Medicaid will save billions, states that don't will pay billions. This ain't rocket science, so stop whining. Do your own math, like everyone is supposed too.

Now where we can agree is the technological rollout of Obama Care/ACA/Exchanges. I would have Amazon.com doing the websites. They worked out their glitches just fine.

Amazon.com - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon.com)

Like other online commercial sites, once the bugs are out its full speed ahead, and that's a matter of time. You do know you can shop insurance rates in your states and apply online already don't you?

Google or Bing health insurance companies in the state of........(insert state)........!

Health Insurance Online - Free Quotes and Information | HealthCare.com (http://insurance.healthcare.com/?CID=3676&SRC=hc_msn&bw_brand=0&bw_type=0&bw_state=Texas&utm_content=622324352&kid=93281904404675&pdv=c&Sub_ID=health%20insurance%20texas&bw_keyword=health%20insurance%20texas&Pub_ID=health%20insurance%20exchange%20in%20texas&bw_query=health%20insurance%20exchange%20in%20texa s&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=bing&utm_term=health%20insurance%20texas&utm_campaign=%28national%29+State+Terms)

States that expand Medicaid will save billions, states that don't will pay billions.
Please name the states that didn't expand Medicaid. I think there are 20 or so that opted out.

I repeat...


If the 33-year-old single father wants the same level of coverage next year as what he has now with the same insurer and the same network of doctors and hospitals, his monthly premium of $233 will more than double. If he wants to keep his monthly payments in check, the Carpentersville resident is looking at an annual deductible for himself and his 7-year-old daughter of $12,700, a more than threefold increase from $3,500 today.


“I believe everybody should be able to have health insurance, but at the same time, I'm being penalized. And for what?” said Weldzius, who is not offered insurance through his employer. “For someone who's always had insurance, who's always taken care of myself, now I have to change my plan?”

&#39;The Daily Show&#39; Wonders Why 26 States Didn&#39;t Expand Medicaid - Arit John - The Atlantic Wire (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/entertainment/2013/10/daily-show-wonders-why-26-states-didnt-expand-medicaid/70432/)


"It must be a pretty eclectic group with many different reasons to explain why they would turn down federal money to bring healthcare to their working poor," Jon Stewart said. "Or maybe there was just one reason." Like, all of those states have Republican governors and/or legislatures.

This is a good article, judge it for yourself.

Medicaid Expansion & States: Will They or Won (http://www.governing.com/topics/health-human-services/gov-medicaid-expansion-and-states.html)

But to answer your question here is a map.

Where each state stands on ACA's Medicaid expansion | The Advisory Board Daily Briefing (http://www.advisory.com/Daily-Briefing/2012/11/09/MedicaidMap)

http://www.advisory.com/~/media/Advisory-com/Daily-Briefing/2012/11/DB_medicaid_map_OLD.jpg

I repeat...

This is the result of living in a free and unregulated society, the insurance companies decide what the premium is and they found a way to gouge the insured

No it aint them . The Obots decided to intentionally raise the rates on the healthy and young .
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/10/14/obamacares-website-is-crashing-because-it-doesnt-want-you-to-know-health-plans-true-costs/

So what you are saying is they pay over their life time rather than being allowed to game the system

Young people are guaranteed to be old people, and as we keep making babies, and we will, the system will sustain itself.


The Obots decided to intentionally raise the rates on the healthy and young.

They weren't paying anything before the ACA.

Young people are guaranteed to be old people, and as we keep making babies, and we will, the system will sustain itself.

They weren't paying anything before the ACA.

And that's not fair, right? Why should the old people meet all the costs of the system. However the insurance companies should have been prevented from changing the nature and cost of existing products in order to pass costs on to existing clients

The denial of the left is amazing . The only thing that changed in the market is the implimentation of Obamacare . Yet you blame the insurance companies .

Hello again, tom:
The only thing that changed in the market is the implimentation of Obamacare . Yet you blame the insurance companies .I don't know how to break it to you, but the insurance companies are INTEGRAL to Obamacare. I'd rather he kicked them to the curb, but he's really a right winger, after all.

excon

Hello again, tom:I don't know how to break it to you, but the insurance companies are INTEGRAL to Obamacare. I'd rather he kicked them to the curb, but he's really a right winger, after all.

excon

Ex you know that without the single payer option you have to have someone in play,

Ex you know that without the single payer option you have to have someone in play,

Why because in a single payer system no one pays ? What a fantasy !

Why because in a single payer system no one pays ?I don't understand, can you expand on that.

It appears HHS stole the software (http://m.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obamacare-website-violates-licensing-agreement-copyrighted-software_763666.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter) for Glitchapalooza.

Not sure why the owners of the copyright would want to take credit, but still, the federal government can't just take what it wants.

It appears HHS stole the software (http://m.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obamacare-website-violates-licensing-agreement-copyrighted-software_763666.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter) for Glitchapalooza.

Not sure why the owners of the copyright would want to take credit, but still, the federal government can't just take what it wants.

I wonder where all the money went to make the thing in the first place? I haven't heard anyone talking about it yet but for the money spent it should have been flawless.

I wonder where all the money went to make the thing in the first place? I haven't heard anyone talking about it yet but for the money spent it should have been flawless.

I read that the budget tripled (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/17/us-usa-healthcare-technology-insight-idUSBRE99G05Q20131017) this year and what we got was a site that wasn't even tested until this month (http://washingtonexaminer.com/troubled-obamacare-website-wasnt-tested-until-a-week-before-launch/article/2537381).

Why because in a single payer system no one pays ? What a fantasy !

That's not right Tom we have a single payer system and a copayment is demanded by doctors in some instances, but all this hooha at the bottom reaches of the system you are experiencing are avoided. I have been over this ground before but you reject the obvious on ideological grounds, a single payer system can work without destroying competition

I wonder where all the money went to make the thing in the first place? I haven't heard anyone talking about it yet but for the money spent it should have been flawless.

here was a no-bid contract with Obama contributors who were fired by Canadian gvt. (CGI Group)

here was a no-bid contract with Obama contributors who were fired by Canadian gvt. (CGI Group)

And the website design firm was Teal Media, formed by a former Obama campaign staffer, which just pulled it's Healthcare.gov credit from their site.

Design Firm Removes All Reference To Its Work On Obamacare From Its Website (http://www.buzzfeed.com/evanmcsan/design-firm-removes-all-reference-to-its-work-on-obamacare-f?s=mobile)

They've since restored it although I can't imagine why. Why are we giving it to insiders, donors and outsourcing it to Canada - especially if they aren't up to the task?

Hello again,

You DIDN'T have to shut the government down and cost the US $24 BILLION.. All you had to do was wait for THIS fiasco.. But, NOOOOOO, you had to put us $24 BILLION further in debt..

Good job, right wingers..

excon

Sky high prices,deductibles that scare off just about everyone that can get through the broken website and now :

Insurers say the federal health-care marketplace is generating flawed data that is straining their ability to handle even the trickle of enrollees who have gotten through so far, in a sign that technological problems extend further than the website traffic and software issues already identified.

Emerging errors include duplicate enrollments, spouses reported as children, missing data fields and suspect eligibility determinations, say executives at more than a dozen health plans

Obamacare woes widen as insurers get wrong data - MarketWatch (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/obamacare-woes-widen-as-insurers-get-wrong-data-2013-10-18)

The biggest thing plaguing Obamacare isn't the computer code .It's the "code " written into the legislation and the regulatory "code " that now reaches into the 10s of thousands pf pages .

Everything about it is a disaster.

Interesting article by the Canadian Free Press.

A Criminal Enterprise Called the Democratic Party (http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/58617)

The Canadian Free Press is anything but Canadian or free. Do a little research about them.

Here is some other interesting reading from actual Canadian press:
U.S. shutdown climbdown: the 'triumph' of the Republican surrender monkeys - CBC News - Latest Canada, World, Entertainment and Business News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/u-s-shutdown-climbdown-the-triumph-of-the-republican-surrender-monkeys-1.2101877)
The comments below the story are telling as well.

The Canadian Free Press is anything but Canadian or free. Do a little research about them.

Here is some other interesting reading from actual Canadian press:
U.S. shutdown climbdown: the 'triumph' of the Republican surrender monkeys - CBC News - Latest Canada, World, Entertainment and Business News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/u-s-shutdown-climbdown-the-triumph-of-the-republican-surrender-monkeys-1.2101877)
The comments below the story are telling as well.

Just because you are a socialist... doesn't make everyone else in Canada a socialist.

Socialists will tell any lie to further their agenda...right out of Sol Alinsky's Rules for Radicals...and why lefties can't be trused to walk your dog, or anything else.

Just because you are a socialist.You're funny. Was that supposed to be an insult? And how did you come to that conclusion from my post?

You're funny. Was that supposed to be an insult? And how did you come to that conclusion from my post?

How is it an Insult if you embrace it?


I come to that conclusion not by your post in this thread... but by your posts in most threads.

Ok, thanks.
Try to lower your blood pressure this weekend.
I gots to go socialize. :)

The idea behind it to make sure everybody have high quality healthy life was beautiful. It is then another topic how it works on real life.

Think about this . The Republicans were never going to support the plan. Obama had to lie to his own constituency to get their support . Historians will have to acknowledge the critics were right.It has turned out to be a bad deal for people who had insurance already and for a lot of people who got coverage for the first time. Rather than coming down, costs went up as critics claimed .Just about every person who predicted premiums would increase dramatically was called a "liar," a "scaremonger"

lies

you can keep your plan
you can keep your doctor
your premiums will go down by $2500
those with preexisting conditions will be protected
you will have greater access to health care

Obama's 'You Can Keep It' Promise Is 'Lie Of The Year' : The Two-Way : NPR (https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/12/13/250694372/obamas-you-can-keep-it-promise-is-lie-of-the-year)

you can keep your plan
you can keep your doctor
your premiums will go down by $2500
those with preexisting conditions will be protected
you will have greater access to health careOther than those few minor details, he was completely honest. [SARC]