Unfortunately, fallen2grace, the only reasons not to be queer friendly are hatred and/or stupidity. So which is it? Do you hate us because we somehow threaten your "perfect" christian world or are you too stupid to see the facts? Homosexuality is normal and natural, and it's not harmful. Sure, I could choose to live my life as myself or I could live a life of misery running away from the truth. I choose to live the truth.

A note to goldilox: don't pretend you respect my opinions. I know that my thoughts about religion are unpopular in a world of political correctness, but at least I have the cajones to voice what I know is right (and, by the way, my thoughts are based on actual evidence, not a collection of books organized by anti-Roman revolutionaries to discredit the Roman Empire). I'm very open-minded to all sorts of ideas, as long as there is some logical basis for them, and I don't see any religion to have a very rational world view. I'm not saying that religion should be outlawed or anything like that, there is a lot of good that comes from religious organizations (Catholic Charities, for example) but you must see the difference between religious thought and scientific fact.

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Originally Posted by stonewilder

There was a time when with out thinking I would have said being gay is a choice, but I know better now. My son dated a lot of girls but he was a unhappy person. From the time he was about 13 it was like he went from a happy kid to a troubled, confused and sad teen. It wasn't until he was 16 that I realized what was making his life so miserable. He was gay and struggling with the thought of losing everyone he loved because of it. When I finally realized, dealt with and got the nerve, I asked him point blank if he was gay. He became a much happier person when he found that his friends and I think more so I, accepted and loved him anyway. He helped me realize how stupid I was to even think it is by choice. Saying he was gay could have made him lose his friends and be tormented from other kids at his school. I could have turned my back on him and kicked him out. We live in the south and although there are a lot of younger people who are opened minded enough to accept it, there are still [B]many[/B who would rather try beating the gay out of him. Why would anyone choose to deal with all that? Answer is...no one would. As for me I would much rather see my child happy and gay than the miserable “straight” person he tried to be and who wanted to kill himself because he was gay. Being gay is by no means a choice and frankly it pisses me off to hear people say it is a choice. Even worse is when you try to make them understand the reasons a person would not chose to be gay and they still insist that it is a choice. A guy at work said if his son told him he was gay he would disown him. I told him, “You don’t really love your son then do you.” His reply was, “yes but…. “ I stopped him there and said,” Love has no buts…you either love him or you don’t. I firmly believe that!

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Parent will always love their children. Loving our childrren does not mean we need to approve of everything they choose to do.

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Originally Posted by americangayboy

Unfortunately, fallen2grace, the only reasons not to be queer friendly are hatred and/or stupidity. So which is it? Do you hate us because we somehow threaten your "perfect" christian world or are you too stupid to see the facts? Homosexuality is normal and natural, and it's not harmful. Sure, I could choose to live my life as myself or I could live a life of misery running away from the truth. I choose to live the truth.

A note to goldilox: don't pretend you respect my opinions. I know that my thoughts about religion are unpopular in a world of political correctness, but at least I have the cajones to voice what I know is right (and, by the way, my thoughts are based on actual evidence, not a collection of books organized by anti-Roman revolutionaries to discredit the Roman Empire). I'm very open-minded to all sorts of ideas, as long as there is some logical basis for them, and I don't see any religion to have a very rational world view. I'm not saying that religion should be outlawed or anything like that, there is a lot of good that comes from religious organizations (Catholic Charities, for example) but you must see the difference between religious thought and scientific fact.

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being gay is harmful where your health is concerned... evidence have shown that there is a very high prevalence of Aids in the gay & bi sexual community... and I believe it is abnormal... it is pointless arguing with you where 'the bible or God or christianity' is concerned as it obviously seems like you do you believe but according to the fact that homosexuality is a sin... why would God our creator who is against sin create an individual in that form? And then condemn those persons after? Can u explain this?

Being straight can be harmful too if you get some girl or guy who has a lot of sex. Studies are stupid, studies showed that the earth was flat and those were wrong. Everyone is at danger no matter what you are.

Well, I can't really understand what you're asking.

Homosexuality is not abnormal nor harmful. Did you know that black women have the highest likelihood of being infected with HIV? I guess being a black woman is far more harmful to your health than being a gay man. Also, lesbians have almost no chance of contracting HIV. So they must be the most normal people on the planet.

Unfortunately for you, we're in a situation where an opinion can be wrong. Because you don't have credible evidence to back your claims, and I do, your opinion is wrong.

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Well, I can't really understand what you're asking.

Homosexuality is not abnormal nor harmful. Did you know that black women have the highest likelihood of being infected with HIV? I guess being a black woman is far more harmful to your health than being a gay man. Also, lesbians have almost no chance of contracting HIV. So they must be the most normal people on the planet.

Unfortunately for you, we're in a situation where an opinion can be wrong. Because you don't have credible evidence to back your claims, and I do, your opinion is wrong

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Opinions cannot be wrong. Answers can be. That's why They are called Opinions.

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Unfortunately, fallen2grace, the only reasons not to be queer friendly are hatred and/or stupidity. So which is it? Do you hate us because we somehow threaten your "perfect" christian world or are you too stupid to see the facts? Homosexuality is normal and natural, and it's not harmful. Sure, I could choose to live my life as myself or I could live a life of misery running away from the truth. I choose to live the truth.

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Aparently, You can't get it through your brain that I don't hate gay people. And since your set on it I'm not going to do anything about that. Why I don't support them? Why would I tell you? You already know. And How can you call me stupid if you don't even know me? Homosexuality is not by any means normal and that is my opinion. Anyhow you will just tell my my opinion is wrong.

You're right, I will tell you that you are wrong. Opinions can be wrong. Also, I didn't call you stupid, I asked if you were stupid. Normalcy is hard to define, and psychologically speaking, for something to be considered abnormal it must be harmful physically, psychologically or cause the subject a large amount of unwanted stress. Homosexuality is not physically or psychologically harmful, nor does it cause unwanted stress. Therefore your opinion is wrong. (If you just mean that homosexuality is less common than heterosexuality, I'll agree, but I'd bet money that that's not what you meant... it's certainly not how it came across).

Your "opinion" that homosexuality is a choice is laughable. There is overwhelming evidence stating that sexual orientation is not a choice AND that (in men) it is very stable. Your essentially saying that the scientic method, in this case, is wrong, without providing any evidence to back it up.

I have evidence. The bible. And at this I will stop. Because I know you will never take the time and actally read it. So farewell.

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Originally Posted by Hope12

Parent will always love their children. Loving our childrren does not mean we need to approve of everything they choose to do.

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Did I say you have to approve of everything they do? No I think I said"disown", that is not the same as disapproving. And no all parents do not love their kids because if they did they wouldn't turn their backs on their own flesh and blood because they don't want to deal with who their children are.

I agree.

The bottom line here is God would never create a person this way if he was against homosexuality... that in itself defeats the whole purpose... for those of you who do not believe in God, you may beg to differ but as far as I am concerned no matter where scientific evidence or your experiences etc are concerned, the bottom line is it is Not of God, so how can it be a natural thing... natural things come from God... and he would never create a human being in such form.if it was natural and normal and right, why do the churches preach against it?why is it referred to as sinful and immoral?I'm sure just as anything else that is wrong, your instincts tell you that it is... but of course some of us refuse to hear it just to accommodate ourselves... my facts cannot be more right... you can find it in the bible... but unfortunately for those who do not believe... it may mean nothing to you... another valid point I want to make... what is sex? Gay guys and lesbos talk about having sex... sex is the penetration of the penis into a woman's vagina;according to the oxford dictionary... Because intellectual integrity is essential in any meaningful dynamic interaction, let us consider the person, claims and message of Jesus Christ:
"Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me.. " John 14:6

It is stated of Him in John 1:1-3; 10; 14: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth."

Jesus, Whom we worship, who is identified as the "living Logos", the very Word of God, literally believed the story of Adam and Eve, which He affirmed when He quoted it as true in Matthew 19:4-5:

"And He answered and said, "Have you not read, that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female," and said, for this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh'?"

Whenever God describes the creation of Mankind, He includes both male and female, and the creation of woman is unique, for she was created as a completion of man. Unlike the man and the animals, woman was created directly from man's bodily form, rather than from the dust of the earth. The completion of God's image therefore required both. Neither man nor woman can, within themselves, reflect the image of God without the other.

Genesis 1:26-28: "And God said, Let us make man in Our image, after Our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

So God created man in His [Own] image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

Then the man said, 'This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; this one shall be called Woman, for out of Man this one was taken.'

Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and clings to his wife, and they become one flesh.'"

Genesis 5:1-2: "This [is] the book of the generations of Adam {Mankind}. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made He him; Male and female created He them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam {Mankind}, in the day when they were created. Genesis 5:1-2:

It is obvious that two men together or two women together do not reflect the image of the triune God, but only within the unity of man and woman together is the reflection of God visible.

Homosexuality Is Without Scientific Basis And Is Rooted In Ancient Pagan Religion's Rebellion Against Our Creator God.
In the first chapter of Romans, God explains that the existence of homosexuality within societies, families, and individuals, is a natural result of rebellion against Him and His created order. Homosexuality is a deviation from God's design for mankind, and is therefore not a sign of natural created order, but is rooted, through Satan's inspiration and tempting, in the fallen nature and evil imagination of man. All those who have literally rejected the revelation of God, which exists: 1) not only within His written Holy Word, 2) but also, within the conscience inside all men, and 3) visibly, through the observation of nature - His creation, and have instead, chosen idolatry, through the worship of God's creation - whether, the object of worship is the earth, i.e. nature - via goddess worship, or to worship material things created by man, or the self-deification of man himself (Humanism), all or any of these rather than worshipping our Creator, is to be guilty of "rebellion against God's known will" - which is the definition of sin.Because God has revealed that Rebellion against Him is the root cause of Homosexuality and is the natural spiritual result of man's striving for "independence" from God, his Creator, we know that Homosexuality is not a condition that any human being is born into, nor is it primarily a physical condition. It is a spiritual condition. In the final analysis, it is a choice, or a series of choices and decisions that each individual has made. It is impossible to understand anything about homosexuality without first understanding this...

Again, some may disagree because it is obvious there is a lack of belief and knowledge of the bible... you may be educated with the teachings and the scientific evidence and human wisdom etc, but true wisdom is not present... because it only comes from God.

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Originally Posted by fallen2grace

I have evidence. The bible. And at this i will stop. Because i know you will never take the time and actally read it. So farewell.

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I agree... it is sad and as much as some may not like it... but I pity those who think otherwise.. its obviously pointless arguing this with some non-believers.. and it is also obvious they reject it because it does not accommodate them...

I agree!

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Originally Posted by goldilox

I agree...it is sad and as much as some may not like it...but i pity those who think otherwise..its obviously pointless arguing this with some non-believers..and it is also obvious they reject it because it duz not accomodate them....

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Well Put. :]

Xrayman... you could disagree with all I have to say and I expect that because you are trying to accommodate yourself and of course the bible didn't help... so you would by all means find everything to support your actions... but at the end of the day I guess we all have our own beliefs and faith... so good luck to you... in my next life if I had to do this again I would still not end up like you because I believe that there is a God and I have faith in him, therefore from reading his word I would find wisdom and understanding and strength to overcome the evil that is around... I am a TRUE believer in Jesus Christ and God our father.the only way I could end up like you is if I did not know God and believed in him..

Stoneweilder: - God condemn's sin... maybe I said it wrong... but homosexuality is sinful and if u disagree then its up to u... you probably wouldn't understand so as to reason with me, so it is pointless...

Once again, this is not a religious posting... so you bible pushers should take a step back.

Bottomline the answers to the post should be based on fact. Scientific evidence have PROVEN that there is some underlying genetic cause (possibly with linkage to enivornmental experience as well) to homosexuality... those are FACTS.

Your BELIEFS are not facts. The facts in your case are... yes a bible does exist, yes there was a man named Jesus, as far as the rest, it is all hersay. There are no proven FACTS about this Jesus guy and what he did in life. The facts are that he was a man who preached. That's it. Period. The rest of your argument is based on BELIEFS.

The FACTS on this matter speak for themselves.

At the end of the day whatever the causes are whether it be by environmental conditions etc but the fact here is that it is not natural.this is the point.. it is not natural.

I disagree.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/teens/...tml#post565701

Attention all Bible Thumpers. Not everyone is interested or accepts you and your Gods version of the world. If you care to address the original OP not once did he mention the word religion, god, sin, jesus or whatever else it is you fanatics love to preach.

This isn't the religion board. It is a teenager asking in the teens section. He doesn't appear to have any care about god or religion. Like many of us that you 'fanatics' refuse to accept. Take your preaching to the religion board. I will accept it there. That's the place for it!!

Address the OP!!

I believe, for the majority, it is NOT a choice.

But,

How come there are gay men who have children when they were / are marred to women?
Obviously , they were able to "function" in a hetereosexual capacity.

Also, some cultures deem being the "pitcher" normal, but the "catcher" gay. This I don't understand.

Also, homosexual sex in prison among otherwise heterosexual men? For the victim it is rape, but a willful act by the perpetrator; unless it is consensual.





Grace and Peace

As to facts on hiv / aids

HIV and AIDS --- United States, 1981--2000 :
Male-to-male sex has been the most common mode of exposure among persons reported with AIDS (46%), followed by injection drug use (25%) and heterosexual contact (11%). The incidence of AIDS increased rapidly in all three of these risk categories through the mid-1990s; however, since 1996, declines in new AIDS cases have been higher among MSM and injection drug users than among persons exposed through heterosexual contact (Figure 2).

If 10% of the population is gay and yet 46% of cases are due to male -male sex, then the incidence and risk for a homosexual male is several times the risk for a heterosexual male.

I could not find more recent data, and this is for the USA
In Africa, hiv is transmitted predominantly heterosexual in transmission.




Grace and Peace

I pity all of you who are dense enough to believe that the Bible can be used to answer scientific questions. It's sad that a book of fables can have such a devastating effect on (hopefully) otherwise normal people. The original question was not a question of faith or opinion, it was "Is being gay a choice" Simply put: NO! I don't understand how you can argue this with such clear data stating it's not a choice.

To macksmom: the existence of Jesus is actually becoming controversial because the timeline for his death and other historical events don't match up AND he doesn't appear in Roman works of history. Did he really exist? I don't know; however, I don't really think it matters given how Christians have manipulated his words.

To goldilox and fallen2grace: the reason the Bible is so against homosexual sex is because it was used as a weapon in antiguity. To intimidate others, Romans (though not exclusively) raped people. The invention that is Christianity was really pushed as a way to destroy the Roman Empire. They had a brutal culture that was very unfair to those not in the highest classes and everything Roman had to be deemed "sin" in order to change the culture. When you look at Christianity, it's really just a combination of various pagan religions and Judaism that was given to the masses as a legitimate religion. Take a good look at the advent of Christianity... you'll find that nothing adds up.

I don't really think we need religious fanatics telling us what is normal, natural, or healthy when they admittedly choose to disregard facts that don't agree with their warped world view.

Xrayman: I do enjoy Buddhist philosophy. I have many Thai friends (Thailand is a very Buddhist country) and it's amazing how well adjusted everyone seems to be. Maybe it's because the focus of Buddhist thought is self-improvement. They don't play the shame-game like western religions. You mind your own business and work to improve yourself, not judge others.

Comments on this post
goldilox : at the end of the day whatever the causes are whether it be by environmental conditions etc but the fact here is that it is not natural.this is the point..it is not natural.

No, the point is not weather you think it is "natural" or not... that goes right along with your bible theroies.

The QUESTION was weather it is a choice or not... period.

And the answer to that question is NO, base on scientific FACT... not theories from the bible.

And even though you choose to try and push the bible... you know it's not a choice, from your comment "whatever the causes are... "

Hmmmm...

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Originally Posted by americangayboy

Xrayman: I do enjoy Buddist philosophy. I have many Thai friends (Thailand is a very Buddist country) and it's amazing how well adjusted everyone seems to be. Maybe it's because the focus of Buddist thought is self-improvement. They don't play the shame-game like western religions. You mind your own business and work to improve yourself, not judge others.

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I agree... I too practice Buddhism. It is a great and fullfilling philosophy :D

Right, work on improving ourselves, not judge others, don't mind others' business.
:)
Way to go!

Oh joy so in counting I have been called at least 5 things in this thred. To bad for you,Im proud of it. ^_______^

Once again. If you take the time to READ it, You would know there are plenty of Scientific fact. Like my CATHOLIC friend told me when I was telling her about this, You have to spend time actually studying it To know.

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Originally Posted by stonewilder

There was a time when with out thinking I would have said being gay is a choice, but I know better now. My son dated a lot of girls but he was a unhappy person. From the time he was about 13 it was like he went from a happy kid to a troubled, confused and sad teen. It wasn't until he was 16 that I realized what was making his life so miserable. He was gay and struggling with the thought of losing everyone he loved because of it. When I finally realized, dealt with and got the nerve, I asked him point blank if he was gay. He became a much happier person when he found that his friends and I think more so I, accepted and loved him anyway. He helped me realize how stupid I was to even think it is by choice. Saying he was gay could have made him lose his friends and be tormented from other kids at his school. I could have turned my back on him and kicked him out. We live in the south and although there are a lot of younger people who are opened minded enough to accept it, there are still [B]many[/B who would rather try beating the gay out of him. Why would anyone choose to deal with all that? Answer is...no one would. As for me I would much rather see my child happy and gay than the miserable “straight” person he tried to be and who wanted to kill himself because he was gay. Being gay is by no means a choice and frankly it pisses me off to hear people say it is a choice. Even worse is when you try to make them understand the reasons a person would not chose to be gay and they still insist that it is a choice. A guy at work said if his son told him he was gay he would disown him. I told him, “You don’t really love your son then do you.” His reply was, “yes but…. “ I stopped him there and said,” Love has no buts…you either love him or you don’t. I firmly believe that!

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First, no God fearing person would hate another person and especially their own children. As to beating the homosexuality out of any person, no God fearing person would even think of harming another person, gay or straight. It is against God's laws. I believe we are to love all people no matter what their sexuality or lifestyle is. For example:
I love a thief, but must I love the act of stealing he/she does? NO
I love those who hate me but does that mean I must love being hated? No
I love the homosexual person, but must I condone and love their sexual actions? No

Not one of us have the right to harass or beat or treat homosexual men and women badly. We though at the same time do not have to agree or except their behavior as normal or as something they are born with. Why then must they try to push their behavior as exceptable when a higher power, some call God, tells us, it is a sin and it is wrong?

If they are homosexual and they feel they are born that way, then they have free will, let them do their thing and leave the rest of us do our thing. Why do homosexuals feel they must push their behavior on the rest of society they know do not except such behavior? They are teachers and yet many do not leave their sexuality at home where it belongs. They bring it in schools where young children are taught it is okay to be gay. Why do they do that, when parents spend their time teaching their child it is wrong. Doesn't the parent have the right to teach their child God's laws as they understand it? What right does homosexuals have to undo the teachings that parents spend years teaching their children? They don't, but they push and shove homosexuality down the throats of those who do not wish to axcept it nor condone it. Not even straight people have the right to teach sex in the schools. It is a God given right t PARENTS NOT TEACHERS OR SCHOOLS RESPONSIBITY! Maybe if parents are allowed to take that responsibility back then we would not have half the problems we have with sexual behavior as we see today in society.

I believe that if a person is a homosexual, and even if they feel they were born that way, why and what right do they have to mess with my children's mind with television programs , computers, books, movies, magazines and even in the schools, that try to teach my child that it's okay? They are not the child's parent and therefore if a homosexual wishes to practice this sexual behavior, then they should keep it in their homes. Why must they bring their behavior into the schools and think and feel they have a right to teach other peoples children that homosexuality is okay? It is not their right nor are those they teach, their children. They not only teach it, but try to force others to condone it. Why should they condone it if they choice not to? If the homosexual person feels they have rights, then why not give those who are not homosexuals that same right?

I think this leader said it all when he made this statement: "When your country and mine shall get together on the teachings laid down by Christ in this Sermon on the Mount, we shall have solved the problems not only of our countries but those of the whole world.”—Gandhi, to Lord Irwin, former viceroy to India

Yes, I agree that when we all return to the simple teaching of Christ, then and only then will all contraversal issues such as homosexuality and all other issues be settled once and for all. Until then we will have those who try to dictate to us what we should and should not axcept and we do not have that right. Only God does. Some have left the teaching of Christ and some reject those teachings, but I feel as Mr. Gandhi did, until we all turn to God and follow his Son's teachings, their will always be contraversal matters, caused by the battle for prestige and power and who ever becomes the strongest at any particular time, the rest must follow. I personally choice to follow Christ and his teachings. Unitil such time when we must all stand before our maker, I and my family will do what we discern is right and you who want to condone and axcept homosexuality in society, by all means do your thing. I can't stop you and it is not my job or anyone else's. It will though be God's right to judge for himself who is right and who is wrong on this issue. Until then, why not leave sexual behavior at home where it belongs? If homosexuality is so natural and so many condone it, why make such an issue of axceptence? Why should the matter of sexual behavior be a public issue when it is an intimate feeling or relationship between you and the one you love? Why must it be flaunted in the face of those who do not condone it and feel it is a sin?

I truly believe, that those who are straight or homosexuals should keep sexual matters private. Another words, you do your thing, and allow me to do my thing. I don't force my sexual preverence on you, (unless on forums such as this, where one gives their personal view on any said issues) then please don't shove yours down my throat or teach my children what I feel is not your right to teach them. I know some will say that they hear about straight people all the time. Yes, but that does not make that right either. I do not condone such behavior, however, you do have the freedom to decide what is right for you and yours. At the same time though, that same freedom is mine and I will choose for myself and mine what I understand to be correct. If you want freedom of behavior then allow others the same freedom. Why try to convice others to believe what they feel is wrong?

Maybe what people object to the most about homosexual behavior is the fact that
they want others to axcept and condone and tell them it is okay. If you were truly born that way, why does homosexuals need axceptence? I was born with CP and if someone doen't axcept me as I am, I move on to those that do. I do not force others to welcome me or approve of me with my Cerebral palsy if they don't want to. I also do not make me being condoned or loved, a public issue.

In conclusion, we all live in this world. We all have diffferent moral beliefs and practices. When it comes to sexual habits, either straight or gay, it is a personal matter and should remain personal and kept in the home. There is no need for sex in the movies and on television or in public places. Sex is bueatiful when practiced the way it was intended, people have degraded it by making it a public issue and imposing their preverences on others. We all must make our own choices and life with them but we do not have the right to impose our choice on others, especially when it comes to personal matters. I believe it is a sin to practice homsexuality, some believe it is not and it is natural. Fine then, you do your thing and allow me to do mine. Why make it a public issue? Keep it in the home where it belongs and give others the right to decide for themselves what is good for them and what is bad. As for me and my household, we must obey God as ruler on all matters, before man ideas or thoughts of what is right.

Take Care,
Hope12

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Originally Posted by macksmom

Comments on this post
goldilox : at the end of the day whatever the causes are whether it be by environmental conditions etc but the fact here is that it is not natural.this is the point..it is not natural.

No, the point is not weather you think it is "natural" or not...that goes right along with your bible theroies.

The QUESTION was weather it is a choice or not....period.

And the answer to that question is NO, base on scientific FACT...not theories from the bible.

And even though you choose to try and push the bible....you know it's not a choice, from your comment "whatever the causes are...."

hmmmm...

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If it's a choice or not it has not been proven scietifically, even though you would like to say it is. For every Scientific information you wish to give as proof, those who believe it is a choice can give Scientific proof that there is no proof. It is a therory not proof. Please do more research.

Science when it comes to homosexuality is working on therories, that are not facts. You though are giving them as facts. It's not even a matter of pushing the Bible or not, it is a personal matter and should be practiced as such for those who choose that behavior for themselves.

You state that there are those " who choose to try and push the Bible", yet is that not what those who are homosexuals trying to do to those who do not condone such behavior?
Are those who condone homosexuality not trying to push homsexuality down the throats of those who do not condone it? If it is so natural and normal, why do they need people to condone their behavior or actions? If they were born with it, then why don't all people condone it? Why does such behavior sicken others? It's not just those that believe in the Bible, even some who do not even believe in God, are objective to such behavior. If it is natural and normal, why do they need hormones and surgeries to make them into the opposite sex?

Sometimes as a society we have an ability to make whatever we choose to be condoned even if it repules others, just to be popular with others or to be axcepted in society. Two wrongs do not make a right. If someone is gay then they need to stop trying to force others to axcept their behavior. Why do they need to flaunt the sexual behavior? Why does anyone need to even know what the other persons sexual preferences are? It is a personal matter and should not be forced on the part of society that does not wish to condone it. Homosexuals claim to have rights, so does the people in society who do not wish to condone or axcept such behavior as normal. Especially since Science as not proven anything as fact. All the information you have printed so far is not fact, but therories. Do your research not just on the side of homosexuality but on the other side of the issue also. Then you can see all the Scientific information is therory not facts.

Take care,
Hope12

Very detailed. I loved it.

Hope, you really need to think about what you're saying. There is scientific evidence proving sex-linked heritibility in regards to sexual orientation. You "believers" offer answers from a book written thousands of years ago before what we now call homosexuality was even conceived. Based on what you've said, I don't think you should be talking about science in any respect. You demand more information when more is not needed. You know, plate tectonics is just a theory, too, but there is a huge amount of evidence suggesting it is fact.

Also, you mentioned that "god fearing" people don't harm others. What would you call the Crusades, the Inquisition, or the Holocaust? Christians either pursued or approved of all three. What about the 9/11 terrorist attacks? Were they not performed by religious zealots? If you think that the hands of the religious are clean of blood, I doubt your intelligence.

Moving on to your thoughts about education, you really need to think critically about this, not just listen to your church leaders and spew what they have to say. There is no reason to believe that homosexuality is harmful. Every credible psychological, psychiatric and medical organization in America will tell you that. You anti-gay cretins rely on correlational studies to "prove" that homosexuality is harmful, but the first thing you learn in research is "correlation DOES NOT equal causation." Using just correlations, you can say that religion causes murder and conservative politics causes lowered intelligence (the number of churches in a city positively correlates with the murder rate/1000 and conservative thought negatively correlates with intelligence scores). Why should something that is okay not be taught as being okay? By all means, send your kids to private schools or home-school them if you want them to be lied to.

We are not pushing our values on you, we are asking you to quit pushing your values on us. Your god has no place in my life. I don't really care if you think it is wrong, it's a free country, but, once again, you don't have good reason to ask that gays and lesbians refrain from having sex with or marrying the ones they love. Nor do you have sufficient reason to ask that it not be taught as a healthy, normal variation of the human condition. To answer your question about about why people don't condone homosexuality if we are born either homosexual or heterosexual: ignorance! You and your cohorts are so blinded by your pathetic beliefs that you cannot see facts when they are presented. You want evidence, we give you evidence, and then you say the Bible disagrees so we must be wrong. How can you not see how foolish that is?

People like you make me sick.

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Originally Posted by americangayboy

Hope, you really need to think about what you're saying. There is scientific evidence proving sex-linked heritibility in regards to sexual orientation. You "believers" offer answers from a book written thousands of years ago before what we now call homosexuality was even conceived. Based on what you've said, I don't think you should be talking about science in any respect. You demand more information when more is not needed. You know, plate tectonics is just a theory, too, but there is a huge amount of evidence suggesting it is fact.

Also, you mentioned that "god fearing" people don't harm others. What would you call the Crusades, the Inquisition, or the Holocaust? Christians either pursued or approved of all three. What about the 9/11 terrorist attacks? Were they not performed by religious zealots? If you think that the hands of the religious are clean of blood, I doubt your intelligence.

Moving on to your thoughts about education, you really need to think critically about this, not just listen to your church leaders and spew what they have to say. There is no reason to believe that homosexuality is harmful. Every credible psychological, psychiatric and medical organization in America will tell you that. You anti-gay cretins rely on correlational studies to "prove" that homosexuality is harmful, but the first thing you learn in research is "correlation DOES NOT equal causation." Using just correlations, you can say that religion causes murder and conservative politics causes lowered intelligence (the number of churches in a city positively correlates with the murder rate/1000 and conservative thought negatively correlates with intelligence scores). Why should something that is okay not be taught as being okay? By all means, send your kids to private schools or home-school them if you want them to be lied to.

We are not pushing our values on you, we are asking you to quit pushing your values on us. Your god has no place in my life. I don't really care if you think it is wrong, it's a free country, but, once again, you don't have good reason to ask that gays and lesbians refrain from having sex with or marrying the ones they love. Nor do you have sufficient reason to ask that it not be taught as a healthy, normal variation of the human condition. To answer your question about about why people don't condone homosexuality if we are born either homosexual or heterosexual: ignorance! You and your cohorts are so blinded by your pathetic beliefs that you cannot see facts when they are presented. You want evidence, we give you evidence, and then you say the Bible disagrees so we must be wrong. How can you not see how foolish that is?

People like you make me sick.

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6,7,8.. More things I am called. Along with 2 other people. And yet we have called you nothing.

Unbelivable, I do agree with you on the God-Fearing people thing. But other then that. I disagree. Lets see.. Ah here::

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You "believers" offer answers from a book written thousands of years ago before what we now call homosexuality was even conceived.

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I can find plenty of verses that clearly explain about Homosexuality. So get your facts straight.

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We are not pushing our values on you

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That's not true. It goes both ways. I will admit that. And its too bad that you cant. Its human nature to Judge,Lable,and push values on others.

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You want evidence, we give you evidence.

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Yeah and guess what? You want evidence too! And guess what? We give it to you! "Your so blinded" by YOUR belifes that you can't see what we are giving you.

Umm... what did I call hope? I said I would doubt her intelligence if she believed that religious people we innocent.

When the Bible was written, "gay" did not exist. There was homosexual sex, but it was not thought of as it is today. There was consentual sex, which was common in Roman society (the arch-rival of the Jews and early Christian). Christians and Jews tried to demonize all that was Roman (how can you mobilize a segment of people against such a powerful force if it is not for religious purposes?) There was homosexual rape, too, and I think it's evident why the Jews and Christians would be against that... even a lot of Romans disapproved of rape. I think if it was understood in a loving context (which it is today) there would not have been a campaign against it. So, low and behold, I do have my facts straight. The Bible must be studied with a sense of the culture for which it was written.

How is me asking you to stay the heck out of my life and keep your beliefs to yourself pushing my beliefs down your throat? Like I said before, if you want your children to be lied to, home-school them or put them in private schools. Also, entertainment up to the free market. If shows like Will & Grace bother you, it's more than the queer community that you should be mad at. After all, we only make up 3-10% of the population.

You are not providing any evidence of anything. The original question was "Is being gay a choice?" and you respond with "God says they're bad." Where is the evidence there? There isn't even evidence that God exists, let alone that s/he would really care (I don't think Jesus says a single word about gay sex in any of the Gospels). Because the Bible isn't a work of science, it is not appropriate to bring it to a (what should be) scientific conversation. If you asked "What is the meaning of the story of Sodom & Ghomorrah?" would it be appropriate for me to respond "Archeologists have discovered sites south-east of the Dead Sea that may be the Biblical cities. There are vast sulfur deposits in the hills nearby, which could have exploded in an electrical storm or earthquake and rained down on the city, causing the cities' destruction."? Sure, it's marginally related in topic, but it's irrelevant to the conversation.

I am not blind, I was raised in a Christian home and couldn't stand the hypocrisy and lying any more. I would love to believe in God, it's a comforting concept; however, the evidence doesn't back it and I can't believe in something that is so obviously fabricated. If you really look at the history of the creation of the Christian faith, it's apparent that it is a patchwork of pagan religions that was used to unite Roman commoners against Roman leaders.

I never responded with "God says it's bad" I believe my exact words were "You arnt born gay its a choice" And I don't see the word God in there anywhere.

Im done arguing with you. You have your opinion. And I have mine.
There is no point in trying anymore.

You have repeatedly stated that you think God is against homosexuality and therefore it must be a choice. This is not a difference of opinion, it is a refusal, on your part, to accept scientific evidence.

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Originally Posted by americangayboy

Hope, you really need to think about what you're saying. There is scientific evidence proving sex-linked heritibility in regards to sexual orientation. You "believers" offer answers from a book written thousands of years ago before what we now call homosexuality was even conceived. Based on what you've said, I don't think you should be talking about science in any respect. You demand more information when more is not needed. You know, plate tectonics is just a theory, too, but there is a huge amount of evidence suggesting it is fact.

Also, you mentioned that "god fearing" people don't harm others. What would you call the Crusades, the Inquisition, or the Holocaust? Christians either pursued or approved of all three. What about the 9/11 terrorist attacks? Were they not performed by religious zealots? If you think that the hands of the religious are clean of blood, I doubt your intelligence.

Moving on to your thoughts about education, you really need to think critically about this, not just listen to your church leaders and spew what they have to say. There is no reason to believe that homosexuality is harmful. Every credible psychological, psychiatric and medical organization in America will tell you that. You anti-gay cretins rely on correlational studies to "prove" that homosexuality is harmful, but the first thing you learn in research is "correlation DOES NOT equal causation." Using just correlations, you can say that religion causes murder and conservative politics causes lowered intelligence (the number of churches in a city positively correlates with the murder rate/1000 and conservative thought negatively correlates with intelligence scores). Why should something that is okay not be taught as being okay? By all means, send your kids to private schools or home-school them if you want them to be lied to.

We are not pushing our values on you, we are asking you to quit pushing your values on us. Your god has no place in my life. I don't really care if you think it is wrong, it's a free country, but, once again, you don't have good reason to ask that gays and lesbians refrain from having sex with or marrying the ones they love. Nor do you have sufficient reason to ask that it not be taught as a healthy, normal variation of the human condition. To answer your question about about why people don't condone homosexuality if we are born either homosexual or heterosexual: ignorance! You and your cohorts are so blinded by your pathetic beliefs that you cannot see facts when they are presented. You want evidence, we give you evidence, and then you say the Bible disagrees so we must be wrong. How can you not see how foolish that is?

People like you make me sick.

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I am so sorry, my purpose is not to make anyone sick! I am making a statement that is not my personal laws but God's laws. God tells us homosexuality is a sin. Psycologist and other doctors are human as you and I are, we all make mistakes, God does not.

I and those of my religion do not go to war or join in on as you have stated, I quote you:
"Crusades, the Inquisition, or the Holocaust? Christians either pursued or approved of all three. What about the 9/11 terrorist attacks? Were they not performed by religious zealots? If you think that the hands of the religious are clean of blood, I doubt your intelligence."

As a true christian, I do not approve nor would I or anyone in the religion I belong to touch or be involved in anything such as a Crusade or inquistion or holocaust. As to 9/11 that was not any God fearing persons that did such a horrific action. There are those in this world who truly God fearing and if you research this matter you will see that TRUE CHRISTIANS AND THOSE WHO FEAR GOD, do not go to war or join in any political or any kind of actions that would bring harm to another. Remember there are those who claim to be Christians, and they are not true chritians but are referred to as Christendom, because they pretend to serve God but they are proved liars by their actions. These are the ones and the religions that go to war and join in Crusades and inquistions and hurt and kill others.

I do not ask you to do anything. God does though and if you choose not to listen to God's laws, that is your choice. I do not wish to judge you, my only purpose is to inform others of God's laws. If you or anyone else does not choose to obey the creator then so be it. I leave you in peace and there will be no more communication between you and I. I am not here to debate with you or anyone else, but to make sure you know God's law that homosexuality is a sin. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10) 9 What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, 10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom..  . .

At least you can never say to "God, your creator, you didn't know or no one ever told you.
Have a good day and like I stated, I will not debate this issue with you any further. As to intellegence, you think I am not and that is your right, but this is not about intellegence but obedience to the God of the universe. Time will prove intellegence but most of all our obedience to our Creator.

Take care,
Hope12

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Originally Posted by Hope12

I am not here to debate with you or anyone else, but to make sure you know God's law that homosexuality is a sin. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10) 9 What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, 10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom.. . .

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Hmmmm... "nor men who lie with men"... well then I guess lesbians are okay then? Women homosexuals are approved by your god?

Just one of the million things wrong in your bible, and thinking.

It has a deeper meaning. Its not THAT Literal.