connie-mom:
Grown up women use spell checkers when communicating. At least that would set a good example for those kids that you have, or how do you expect to help them with their homework?

IMO, this sounds more like a pissing contest than assistance. If you are upset about what we have to say, don't use someone else's post to do so.

The main issue here is that this young lady took it upon herself to USE a boy to get pregnant for her own selfish reasons, and now she wants us to give her hints on how to continue to be selfish and have it all her way, either legally or socially. She sounds like a clever little thing to me, and I'm sure she will do just fine without you getting on a soap-box for her.

I read this post the first time she posted it.. and waited until now because my initial spontaneous answer would have been a lot worse than what Scott, mjl, and others have issued so far.

And, J_9, as a professional in this medical field has also kept her cool, and is right in telling this young lady the consequences of not just seducing a young child, but the complications of her gestation and delivery. Not to mention the financial issues coming her way.

But, as I said before, these are things she probably has thought out, or she would not have asked us for hints on how to get her mother coerced into putting up with a situation she does not agree with.

This 15 year old is not as sensitive as you claim - and getting a message through with kit-gloves to her is not going to do a darned thing. She made her plans and she is going to go through with them one way or another, with or without your help.

I wonder what you would do if this was one of your daughters... I certainly hope that you teach them more love and respect and legalities than what this young lady has learned so far.

You're right, Scottgem did say she was selfish, immature, and dumb... I agree with selfish and immature to a point, but not dumb. She is calculating and knows just exactly where she is coming from, but probably not where she is going - at least it's not where she wants to go.. because she wants her cake now! And wants to eat it too. So, do you now see where she's coming from?

IMO she wanted to get PG, and the older guys just did not want that kind of trouble, so she picked on a younger one who does not even know the extent of trouble he is going to have in the future - and she's the one that did it all to him. One minute of great sex for a 13 year old is going to cost him a lot of emotional turmoil, probably scar him to the point where he will not trust another girl easily and I am certain he feels totally used. If you want to get on a soap-box for someone - he's more deserving, in my opinion.

If she gets her way and her mom has to accept all three of them, how do you think he will feel knowing he's not really wanted there? How will he grow up knowing he's been used and rejected and forced to join a new family without really given a choice?

So, let's get real and look at the entire picture. I feel sorry for the boy and the baby and hope that her mom will not take her anger out on either one of them.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_33_9.gif By the way, have you seen a post from her since all this started?
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I have read your comments and I see that there are a lot of you that support my mother and his mother. And some of the comments have also been encouraging. To answer some questions. First I want to say that I'm adopted. My adopted mother is my great aunt. She adopted me when I was 5 years old. My birth mom is an alcoholic. She never took care of me or my other sisters & brother. My sisters & brother lives somewhere else and my oldest sister got pregnant when she was 15 also, but she gave it up for adoption. My other sister is in a girls home and my brother was just released from a boys home. My birth mom gave them up and gave me to my adopted mom. My adopted mom does not have any other kids and she has provided very well for me. Sometimes I don't know why I don't like being here because she has done a lot, even having me in private school to get a good education.

From the time that I was about 13 my mother started talking to me about sex and boys. I feel ashamed to say this but she did teach me about this stuff. I guess I just didn't take it in very well. I don't know how I'm going to take care of my child. I just through that my mother would be there to help me out. Even though she said that she wouldn't. My mother is taking me to Alternatives. She said that we both needed counseling and that they will tell me what the impact of my decision will be if I decide to keep it or give it up for adoption. I don't have a social worker, is that something that I should have. Also I didn't know that I could get in trouble for having sex with someone so young, but at the time he told be he was 15.

I don't think she would try to make my life hell, but she is very uphappy with me. And our relationship has certainly changed. His mother is also very angry at both of us.

Through all of this you did answer my question and I'm glad to know that she can't make me give it up that I would have some say in the final decision.

After reading all your comments you gave me something to think about. Things that I didn't consider before, like medical care. I guess I assumed that my mom would take care of everything. I don't know I'm having a hard time and I guess I do have to think about the baby and not just myself.

Sorry about being so stern, but you needed a wake-up call.
It's good that you told us a little more about yourself and admitted that you did not think beyond some point. We all make mistakes in life, and they somehow straighten themselves out (I still hope, and so should you).

And, yes, now is the time for you to do some serious thinking and I hope that all works out well for you. Babies are a wonderful gift, but you have to be ready to accept a lot of responsibilities along with them.

Being PG at 15 is nothing new, we hear about it, read about it and have friends or neighbors going through it, but it is different when it happens to YOU. Each case is different.

Again, wishing you, your 'mom', and that young man all the best.

Keep us posted.

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I'm very glad to hear that your mom is starting to look at the other options. And I'm also glad that you are starting to think this all the way threw (would have been better before but what's done is done) I do wish you all the luck with this and I hope that you end up with a much better life than is expected. And remember that school is very important. I know that you will get a little lazy and think oh well, but for your baby's future you have to be strong and stay the path, other wise it will be fastfood restaurant work or worse a department store where they treat you badly. I can't stress enough how important school is for both you and the father. Oh and definitely look into food stamps and WIC. WIC is very good for your baby's health, they will send you to all kinds of classes. You may not like the classes but you must do what is good for the baby. Your whole life now revolves around what is good for the baby. The hardest lesson in life sometimes is to remember to think of how our actions afect others. I hope that from now on you will always keep that in mind because now everything you do in your life will afect both the baby and the father and your mother.
Good Luck to all of you!
ZYI

Dear tonvwill57 I am so glad you got on here to explain ferthuer to people about your situation I knew in my heart that all was not said at first which is why I felt the need to defend you so badly... when I got pregnant with my first child I know how I felt and know what I told people to try to get them to understand my position as a young child having a baby... I am also so glad you have worked things out sort of with your foster mom as I said my mom was so mad but she did come around and now we talk everyday... I wish you all the luck and hope things go OK.

I too am glad you have returned. You show a lot more maturity then I thought you had in your response to all that has been said here. Its just too bad you didn't show that maturity before.

What bothers me most about your response is how uneducated you were. In this era of the information age where there is so much info available to you, to not understand some of the things you said you didn't know. From your background its hard to imagine how you would think having a child of your own would be a good idea.

The fact that he mother hasn't filed charges against you yet, is a good sign, but it doesn't put you out of the woods. In statutory rape cases the prosecutor can often prosecute on their own without a complainant. The hospital may be required to report to the police a teenage birth and they can investigate.

Or his mother can decide to press charges if you insist on keeping the baby. She is obviously and unsurprisingly concerned on the affect on her son's life to father a baby. If you will need public assistance to then the state WILL go after him. So, if she gets some good advice she will see the only to get the child adopted will be to press charges against you.

I really think you need to rethink giving it up for adoption. You might explore an open adoption that would allow you to be a part of the child's life but get the baby parents who can truly care for it.

I do wish you the best. I hope you and your mom can figure out what will be best for all of you. It's very mature of you to admit that you didn't think this through. That is the first step to being able to make it. Whatever you decide to do, you will have gotten information, thought things through, and made e a decision based on what is sensible and fair rather than solely on what you "want"
Again, I wish you well.

I'm glad you got back on here and reposted a response to all of us. We've had some "heated" words back and forth about your post. It sounds like you're heading in the right direction, keep going that way! I'll have to agree with ScottGem, I too think it might be better after all for all three of you, if you gave up the baby for adoption. You and that boy have your whole lives ahead of you (school-graduation) Think about giving that little baby to someone that can not have a child, and is despertly(sp) wanting a child, that can give her/him a good home, and provide well for her/him. That would be showing responsibility, cause there is really no way you or that boy can afford a baby. I realize it's easier said than done, but it's something that should be done.

Best of luck to you. I'm sure you'll make the right decision kiddo!

Well, I don't think your mom should tell you she doesn't want it in her home.. I think you were foolish for getting pregnant because you wanted one.. it isn't a puppy! This is the rest of your life honey.. did you even talk the father about this..? I think you are going to have it tough for a while. As for your mom.. she can't make you do anything.. and she can't kick you out at your age.. the father is only 13 and I think you are way too young.. I don't know what you were thinking...

Hey. My sister was 15 when she got pregnant and she had a problem similar to yours except my mother wanted her to abort the baby. But she kept it and every thing worked out fine. In my opinion, I think you should keep your baby. It would be very very very HARD for you to raise the child. But it you want your baby keep it. You will struggle but everything will be cool . I know someone who had a baby at 13 and is 19 now with her own home and kid and doing fine. Giving up the baby would be too depressing if you ask me

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Originally Posted by Lilmama23

In my opinion, I think you should keep your baby. It would be very very very HARD for you to raise the child. But it you want your baby keep it. You will struggle but everything will be cool .

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You are entitled to your opinion. But you can't say everything will be cool. There are just too many roadblocks to overcome.

I'm 17 and pregnant and I work and I am trying my hardest to be able to keep my baby. I looked into a lot of things that can help me out financially. Buttruthfully you are really young and if you want to keep it don't let anyone stop you. Youhave a long life ahead of you though and you will get to miss out on doing a lot of things kids like and you will have to mature fast. But I think you need to think about what the best thing for you to do is. Don't let peoples comments bring you down you do what ever you think is best. I wish you the best of luck if you want my profile has some things you can look at that will help you financially but you can do what yopu want. Good luck god bless you!

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Originally Posted by Britney241

i think you need to think about what the best thing for you to do is.

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I disagree. I think she needs to think about what the best thing for the baby is. She got into this mess by thinking about what would be best for her.

I agree with ScottGem

I´m no adult, but at my school we have dissused, sex, stds, and teen age pregnancy. I can't understand, why you would have unprotected sex at your age. Remember one thing, its not about what you, but what you need.

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Originally Posted by bjorn2256

I´m no adult, but at my school we have dissused, sex, stds, and teen age pregnacy. I can't understand, why you would have unprotected sex at your age. Remember one thing, its not about what you, but what you need.

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Good advice, but if you read her initial post you will see she wanted to get pregnant. Apparently had some fantasy idea about what being a mother would mean.

OK, let's cut to the chase here. No, you cannot be forced to give up your child. And also, no, your mother is not obligated to support the child either. And in most states, having a child makes you automatically emancipated, meaning that your parents have no more obligation to support you either.So you're on your own. And frankly, at age 15, I don't see how you're going to make it on your own. That's not meant to be mean or judgmental, that's just stating the facts.

No sympathy here. I need one more teen mother and her baby to support with the taxes I pay. Guess I'll have to get a second job so I can help pay your doctor bills. Teens should have their babies taken away from them and adopted out to people who want them and can afford to have a baby so people who pay taxes don't have to foot the bill for someone else's stupidity. You didn't just screw around with your own life, you screwed with a babies life, a 13 year old boys (which is kind of sick in it's self) and you screwed with your mothers life as well. I'm sure you will make mother of the year!

When did all this happen?

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Originally Posted by bjorn2256

When did all this happen?

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What does it matter WHEN it happened? The fact is that it happened and she is pregnant.

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Originally Posted by connie-mom

your right she is 15 but we expect so much from young children as the new generation what do we expect them to do...and if she is to dumb to raise a child then how does she know how to seduce a 13 year old boy like come on get a grip are you telling me you never had a one night stand? and if you did did you use protection all the time and if not how meny children could you have out there you didn't know about how about abandinment how about you go to jail for things you have done.... I am not the exception I was just a young girl having sex not knowing what the concequences were till it was to late!!! and how do you not know he was not to instagater!!!! how do you know she is not saying shw wants kids because she is now preg please you don't sound stupid so don't act stupid get facts befor you judge it can make a difference in your life and hers how do you know she don't get so depressed she don't try to kill her self or child like get a grip she needs help not critsisim so stop being a jerk and help the poor girl i am sure we have things we all look back and go holy crap what was i thinking!!! try some compassion not blood!!!

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I didn't have a one night stand at 15, with a KID 2 years younger than me.

I DID use protection all the time--3 forms, actually--and still managed to get pregnant. It was AWFUL. Being pregnant as a teen is nothing but STRESS--everyone telling you what to do, and feeling torn no matter what you decide. I chose adoption, and believe me, it was no cake walk, but I knew I wasn't ready to be a parent YET.

We know he wasn't the instigator because she said that she deliberately got pregnant. Sounds like HER idea to me. I don't know a 13 year old boy who dreams of being a daddy RIGHT NOW, do you?

Sorry--what she needs right now are FACTS, not sympathy. It's not my job to give her sympathy. She can get that from her family and friends. As a tax-payer, who will probably be PAYING for her child, I'm actually righteously angry! *I* can't get pregnant! It will cost me $20,000 to have a kid, whether I adopt or try IVF--yet dumb teenagers (like the original poster here) can have kids no problem, and *I*, as a taxpayer, get to pay for not only the costs of having a baby that young, but the costs of the grants and loans she'll get as a single mother to go to school.

YES, she deserves to be yelled at for this--it was a dumb idea! No, her mother can't "make" her give her baby up--but she can make it awfully hard to keep the baby. It's a form of coercion--but it CAN happen.

Connie-mom, YOU need a reality check. While SOME people can make it as teen parents, the vast majority end up in unhealthy relationships later, neglecting their kids, and resenting the loss of freedom raising a child when they ARE a child brings.

Don't tell us not to "scare" her--she SHOULD be scared! She's responsible for another living being now, and that should scare ANYONE!

I agree with Synnen and others. I also can see connie-mom's point. Is there any middle ground? Some teens make great parents, although my taxes do pay for all the ones who don't.

There is a post above "omg ur a whore." Having an opinion, giving it when asked with honesty and sincerity does not make a person a whore.

No matter what age you are, you wanted to get pregnant and you wanted a baby. Now, the circumstances aren't perfect for you or your baby but you wanted it so I assume that your going to love it and however many griefs are handed down to you and your baby the worst it can get is neglect or a mother who doesn't care, but good luck.
To everyone, especially scottgem.
This girl has been brave enough to ask you all for help and advise, and all you can do is insult and degrade her whilst you bicker amongst yourselves. Tonvwill took a big gamble and put a lot of trust in you, I think you should wipe the bull from your mouths and take a good long look at yourselves.

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Originally Posted by raggablue

no matter what age you are, you wanted to get pregnant and you wanted a baby. now, the circumstances aren't perfect for you or your baby but you wanted it so i assume that your going to love it and however many griefs are handed down to you and your baby the worst it can get is neglect or a mother who doesnt care, but good luck.
to everyone, especially scottgem.
this girl has been brave enough to ask you all for help and advise, and all you can do is insult and degrade her whilst you bicker amongst yourselves. tonvwill took a big gamble and put alot of trust in you, i think you should wipe the bull from your mouths and take a good long look at yourselves.

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Ragga--at 15, I wanted a car. REALLY REALLY wanted one. So what if I couldn't legally drive yet--I still wanted one! And I wanted a convertable--something cool, that my friends would love, and people would envy.

Did I know the first thing about cars and taking care of them? Nope--but what did THAT matter?

Did I have money to BUY the car, and then take care of it? Nope--no insurance money, no gas money, no money for maintenance. But I still wanted a car!

If I had tricked someone into giving me the car of my dreams at 15--would you have felt at all sorry for me when I couldn't drive it because I couldn't even afford gas? Nope, you would have laughed at me, and told me to sell the car and wait until I was older.

Well, unfortunately, kids aren't as easy overall as cars are. The reason we gave diverse advice, and the reason we "yelled" at her was because she wasn't even CLOSE to looking at reality yet--she was still in her dreams of having a baby of her own to love--and not looking at maintenance, upkeep, insurance, etc.

Some of us had bad experiences of our own with having babies as teenagers. Some of us had GOOD experiences with having babies as teenagers. Since our advice is generally based on our experiences--well, you see the result.

As far as wiping the bull from our mouths---excuse me? Is giving this girl a dose of reality somehow "bull"? Raising a kid is HARD. Raising it on your own, with no help from the father, is even HARDER. Raising one at 15, with no job, and not even a high school degree is harder YET. So--yeah. We're throwing reality at her. Are we supposed to pat her on the back and tell her everything is going to be all right, when clearly it isn't? The probability of the original poster getting an advanced degree and being a help to society is pretty low. As a matter of fact, she will be a BURDEN on society, at least for the next few years. Why should I in any way encourage that?

Please--before you tell me to wipe the bull from my mouth, make sure you wipe it from your own eyes.

Synnen said it very well. As for me, I have nothing to rethink or apologize for. We have an immature girl who deliberately set out to bring a child into this world that she is clearly not emotionally or financially able to care for. Potentially corrupting a 13 you old boy in the process.

If you think such a person is deserving of compassion and understanding, you are entitled to your opinion. I reserve my compassion for the child that will be stuck with essentially a child for its mother.

I'm not sure about the law... but why would you put all that on yourself, knowing you'll be judged or having the baby taken away because you are at such a young age. I'm glad you want to have someone to take care of, and I'm sure you can do it but maybe next time, since there's no rewind button on life, you can make a more careful decision and think it through once more.

But all in all, I hope everything works out for the better! And if you really want to keep your baby, it's your choice. :)

Hey hun. I feel for you... my mom had me at 12. My dad was 13. And from experience they won't press statutory rape charges on anyone who is not even of the consenting age to begin with. And he isn't four years younger than you. If there is a will there is a way. No one can make you give up your baby if you don't want to and the government does provide wic and medicaid to mothers at any age. I'm on it now! The problem your mom will face is that when you become pregnant you are considered a legal adult in all medical eyes and even a few legal ways. I don't suggest it because it is very hard but you could move out w.o your moms consent if she gives you the altimatum give up the baby or leave. But trust me you will want her help raising the baby.

Best advice is to talk to your mom and tell her to shut up and listen to how you feel. Make sure you understand all of your options and consider what is best for your baby and what you can live with yourself doing. I had adoption papers signed for me before I was born but my dad fought it and made my mom keep me. Both parents have to consent no matter how old they are. (with a pat test of course) the best option for your baby is probably adoption but only you know your willingness to give up your life to support your baby and only you know your financial situation. For all any of us know you could have a million dollar trust fund! Just make sure you know about open adoptions and all of the programs available to you from the government.

And as far as this poor boy... yea right! He obviously didn't use a condom or form of protection if she said she was on because or w/e he still should have thought about it for his safety. He isn't going to have to deal with this if he doesn't want to. He has to consent to a pat test before he has any responsibility and I do hope that she doesn't fight to keep this baby and leave it on her mother that would be tragic. But it does happen all to often.

Oh, really, Brown eyes?

My mom was 16, and my dad 19. Amazingly, they're still married after 33 years. But--it was tough.

Aside from ONCE, when the Navy wouldn't give my dad's paycheck to my mom because he was at sea--they were NEVER on Welfare. Not even WIC. Can YOU say that? They didn't get free daycare at school, or scholarships to college--how about you?

By "a burden on society" I mean that basically tax-payer money is making sure that that baby (and her mother) are taken care of. She's not supporting herself--how can she? She's also not likely to get a college degree, making her stuck in lower-income jobs for the rest of her life.

No, not ALL teenage parents are a burden on society--but if you look at statistics, the younger the parent was, the more likely they were to get public aid--and THAT is a burden on society. I can think of a LOT more places I'd rather see tax dollars spent (like--AHEM--a bridge in Minneapolis) than on stupid kids that get knocked up and then EXPECT the state to take care of them.

Grow up, little girl. I was a teen mother too, and went through hell so that my child could have a better life--with her adoptive parents. So--don't tell me I don't have a clue what I'm talking about.

Yea actually I can say that my mom was never on wic or welfare and she didn't get free day care or free college. She lied on applications at jobs and became a stripper at 14 to support me. Because it was the only way to make enough money before she graduated to support me. She wasn't proud of it but I never went without. She got her diploma and she now is more successful than your average college graduate and she retired at 30! And she never went to college me and her don't get along great because of decisions she made later but that had nothing to do with me.

I am on medicaid through my pregnancy because my boyfriend pays $600 a week to those taxes and his insurance company refuses to cover me until we are married. And my health insureance with my mom won't cover me because it is a teen pregnancy. The way I see it my parents and my boyfriend have paid in enough money that it won't kill the government to cover my medical expenses. And I am not runnign away from the consequences of my actions by giving it to someone else to raise. I'm having a baby and I will take care of it. And no I do not go to college without scholarships! I graduated a year early without the support of my parents and got thrown out at 16 because I wouldn't get off the computer while I was doing homework to one of my 13 classes that semester. I earned my scholarships. I am the only person in my state to ever graduate as early as I did with out skipping a grade in elementry school!

Oh and if you think I need to grow up you need to check into who exactly you are talking about. I have been living on my own and paying my way through college with the help of my scholarships since I was 16. My mom put me out at 13 because I was strung out and she didn't want to deal with me. I went to my dads and cleaned up w/o rehab because I knew I was on a destructive path. I have probably been through more dificult times than many adults on here and got through them on my own. I lived at my dads house from 13 to 16 while he was on federal probation and was trying to keep me out of school and didn't work. I kept food on the table and I bought my clothes and I paid my school expenses including AP classes that helped me graduate HS as a college sophomore! So next time you want to talk to someone about growing up save it for someone who lives with there mommy and daddy and doesn't have to pay there own bills and support there dad and his 5 other children!

And even if the teenagers weren't on medicaid and using it to the maximum they would open its availability to illegal immigrants to have there 15 kids on. Once a program is started it won't go away there will always be someone to use government programs and if you think other wise you neeed a reality check. You'd be paying in the same amount even if there were only 10 people nation wide that were on medicaid. They will never lower taxes and the bridge in minneapolis is probably a state funded program anyway! The US government doesn't fix roads and bridges states do. If you think I'm a little girl because I'm 17 you need to grow up because many 17 year olds out there know a lot more about the real world than you probably do! Wisdom does not have to come with age it comes with experience!

I think you showed them there brown_eyes

Wasn't trying to show them anything just want people to realize that everything is not always black and white like they think it is. Not everyone has great parents or great situations but you can still work through it if you know what you want and are dead set on achieving it!

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Originally Posted by brown_eyes_3546

wasnt trying to show them anything just want people to realize that everything is not always black and white like they think it is. not everyone has great parents or great situations but you can still work through it if you know what you want and are dead set on acheiving it!

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I made a thread thingy just for that 2not everyone... great situations"

Well, honey--you're an exception to the rule, and NOT what generally happens. She became a stipper so you didn't go without? Well, we just went without. Thank heavens for living near a large family, and living in a small town so that a large garden plot was allowed. I worked as a kid--I needed to so that we could EAT. There was no fun until chores were done, and chores consisted of not dishes and dusting, but weeding and watering and planting and picking. I spent more time in that garden than I did anything else. And we didn't HAVE a TV, or cable, or 2 cars, or bikes--any of that--until I was 10 years old.

As far as thinking you DESERVE the money you get---HA!

I pay that much in, too. I don't get anything back. And you SHOULD be married to get your significant other's health benefits--that's one of the perks of marriage, honey. Why SHOULD insurance companies cover someone who isn't legally related? Get real!

By your reasoning, my infertility treatments should ALSO be covered by welfare--I mean, I pay all that money IN, and I can afford to raise a child--wouldn't I be a better mom than someone who wasn't planning on a child? I have insurance, I have a husband (who I've been with for almost 12 years), I have a steady income! I don't need Welfare! I just can't afford the beginning part--I mean, who can shell out $20-$30k all at once for a baby? Since we subsidize teen pregnancies by at LEAST that much, in the first several years of that baby's life--with medical, and food, and checkups, and strollers, and subsidized housing--shouldn't EVERYONE get a chance at $20k for something they want? I mean, they put that much INTO it! How about every 18 year old gets free college, as long as they didn't use their money for a pregnancy? Or if you choose not to do that, AND you didn't have kids the government had to help with--how about the down payment on a house at 30? Get real! Government money isn't DESERVED just because you put money IN. As far as your point about "anyone can abuse the system" --yeah. I know. That's why I've spent the last several years pushing for the system to be eliminated entirely. If people had to choose between cable and feeding their kids, or NOT HAVING SEX until they could afford kids--because face it--who wants to watch their kid starve? --then I bet there would be a lot more people actually taking responsibility for their actions. NOT that raising your kid isn't taking responsibility--but having sex when you couldn't afford the kid wasn't. There would be a HUGE upsurge of family values--because people would actually HAVE to fall back on their families; there would be no one else. People would ALSO join churches in droves--because a church is a place you can go for emotional, spiritual, and physical help.

Yes, you had a rough life. I'm sorry for it. But--amazingly--there IS one statistic you lived up to: Most children of teen pregnancies live to beome a teen parent themselves. You want that for YOUR kid?

As far as the original poster goes--she hasn't been back to the site since December 9th. All posts in this thread at this point are discussion in hopes of preventing someone else posting with the same problem. She never even SAW your advice.

I don't agree with you on most of your points brown-eyes. Number one... you are very defensive about "girls" being on welfare, is that because you feel guilt of being on it? Just because your boyfriend and parents pay taxes doesn't mean it should be in your viewpoint that it is okay to rush out and let someone else pay for that baby you are pregnant with and can not afford. Do not come back and tell me that you can, or you wouldn't be on that welfare.. now would you?

Personally, I was taught to keep my legs closed and together. I also paid attention to that advise. I didn't have sex until I was responsible enough to deal with the consequences on my own (without the help of the government).

I do understand that it is there for a reason... but look at the statistics (as a mature Synnen explained)... most people on it are under-educated or teens that are pregnant/have 50 million kids.

So tell me again why you think because I had the sense to listen and you didn't... why do I have to pay for your child to be born? Oh you have paid taxes, well good... pay for your baby too.

Oh that great education you have? Doesn't seem to me that you have used it all that much. 17... pregnant... and can't afford it. (Going by your words here, have not made up my own).

I will give you that it is not always black and white, however... it is in this situation. The girl is 15 and people like yourself try to make her feel as if she has made no mistake at all.


Oh, by the way... Your boyfriend can in no way pay $600 a month just in taxes or you would be able to have this child without having to be on welfare!!

Oh honey, you poor thing. You didn't get 2 cars and cable TV until you were 10?! I think the things brown eyes meant were not these LUXURIES you speak of, but the BARE NECCESITIES i.e. food, clothes and a roof over her head. Mothers don't become strippers so their children can watch an extra 200 channels on their widescreens.
As far as hard work is concered weeding watering planting and picking are things retired people consider the joys of a RELAXED hobby. I grew up on a farm where iron-age machinery was considered modern, 10hour working days were a walk in the park and two frequecys on one fm radio was sate of the art

I don't think I fully understand what you mean when you say you were "taught to keep my legs closed" are you implying that Brown-eyes is a promiscuous lady or slut, I'm not sure if you have taken time to read the other threads but brown_eyes has not had much luck with men and little of it was her fault.
As for constantly patronising her and saying she is imature, brown eyes has engaged in this,now, discussion in a more mature and adult way than many of you, judging by the copious amount of exclamation marks, wich we all know is code for 'im screaming abuse at a computor screen'

Oh, please.

I wasn't talking about just her, and I would hope that would be obvious. I live in a building with Section 8 housing (no--not me. But the building DOES have it). I also have a friend who was a stripper to feed her kid when she was a teen. I believe that far more people on Welfare have amenities like cable and a car for each parent than those who never buckle to take it.

Yeah--food on the table, electricity, running water, and a roof over my head were what my parents were concerned with. I mentioned the whole idea to show you that people on Welfare today aren't exactly giving up anything before they take that check. I mean--omg--INTERNET ACCESS and a COMPUTER! That's like a month worth of food right there!

Look--the original point of this is that some girls (yes, GIRLS) can make it work as a teen mom, with help from their families. Most can't. Most DEPEND on the welfare system, and I don't think that's right. And the attitude of Browneyes that it's OKAY that they get the money because they put so much IN--well, that's what makes me even madder. I put money in too--as do millions of other tax payers. I'd rather pay for someone to go to college with those tax dollars than pay for a kid that no one planned for or could afford--a kid that will statistically go on and do the Same THING.

No... for your info "!!!!!" would mean... I am trying to get my point across. (If you would like proofreading critics.. we can move to your typing as well)

I was taught to keep my legs closed... means exactly what it says... don't open them until you can afford the consequences without help... by the way that would include the government (by reading her other posts she states that she is giving birth to this child with NO help.)

Please, being a newbie here, the first thing you need to learn is to not put words in a poster's mouth. I never once said she was any less of a person for having sex... I just imply that you shouldn't have sex before you can pay your way.

I was not patronizing her... just telling the fact here. Please show me where I called her immature. I have read and reread my post, and gosh... I just can't find that part!! (Did you get my point there?)

It looks to me like you are trying to start a lot of unnecessary battles here... please stop.

I'm not in the US so you can throw as many stats as you like at me you'll only be boosting your own ego rather than educating me but I think someone's telling porkies because you can get broadband for as little as $20 to my knowledge so your either being conned by your service provide or your being conned by your greengrocer