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Originally Posted by NItEMArE129

By that logic, you are saying that the brain cannot possibly change. You're saying that, if you were born a short-tempered man, you cannot change. You're saying that, if you were born happy, no possible event in your life can change that.
That is not true. The brain ADAPTS. Whether it is by memory, learning, or anything else, the brain LEARNS and CHANGES. If it didn't do that, we would have died out many MANY millions of years ago. People can change. So who are you to say that sexuality is different from that?
The brain is a vastly undiscovered organ. If you can tell me how memory works and then prove it through many scientific studies, then yes maybe I will be more inclined to believe you. If you can't, however, then please don't tell me that I am wrong. Any theory is valid until proven wrong. If you had disagreed with me and simply left it at that, I wouldn'tve cared. And you also can't compare eye color and fingerprints to sexual orientation.... That's like saying how tall you are will affect your intelligence. Correlation does not mean causation.

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Kid. Listen. Yes - you can adapt or change your BEHAVIOUR - i.e.. A homosexual man can adapt by having sex with a woman - but does this change his primal urge to have intercourse with another male? no. I agree, the brain can adapt and learn - but rarely do an individual's basic primal instincts change. Have you ever known a short-tempered, intolerant, insecure loud person to all of a sudden CHANGE into a sweet, soft, nurturing, warm and tolerant person? The BEHAVIOUR changes. Sweetheart, there are scientist's who study the brains of homosexual individuals and they have PROVED that there are large chemical differences in the hypothalamus.

We are hardwired the way we are, from the moment we come out. People can change. They change their reactions or behaviours - but I cannot make the lady with MS, not have MS. The 7 year young boy with treacher collin syndrome - CANNOT change himself to not suffer from the syndrome. He can adapt to his syndrome and change his lifestyle behaviour to learn how to cope with it better, but it doesn't change that the bones in his face are different.

Who am I to say that sexuality is different? OK. Why don't you jerk yourself off to something that repulses you? i.e.. Imagining your Mom and Dad getting it on. Can you change your brain to all of a sudden find this image appealing? If you are successful, I will stand up and applaud you.

Why can't I compare height, weight, eye colour and fingerprints to sexual orientation? We are all born with each - it is predetermined.

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Originally Posted by NItEMArE129

By that logic, you are saying that the brain cannot possibly change. You're saying that, if you were born a short-tempered man, you cannot change. You're saying that, if you were born happy, no possible event in your life can change that.
That is not true. The brain ADAPTS. Whether it is by memory, learning, or anything else, the brain LEARNS and CHANGES. If it didn't do that, we would have died out many MANY millions of years ago. People can change. So who are you to say that sexuality is different from that?
The brain is a vastly undiscovered organ. If you can tell me how memory works and then prove it through many scientific studies, then yes maybe I will be more inclined to believe you. If you can't, however, then please don't tell me that I am wrong. Any theory is valid until proven wrong. If you had disagreed with me and simply left it at that, I wouldn'tve cared. And you also can't compare eye color and fingerprints to sexual orientation.... That's like saying how tall you are will affect your intelligence. Correlation does not mean causation.

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You are correct. Correlation does NOT mean causation. Where did I say that if a baby has blue eyes, he shall be born gay? I didn't. I said: just as your height, weight, skin colour, hair texture, number of digits on your hands and feet are all pre-determined before you are born, so is your sexuality pre-determined.

I never said that one causes the other.

Ok, I agree with you. I misinterpreted your argument and I apologize for that. But I still don't think you should belittle someone's opinion about when you can know your sexuality. Just because you realized your orientation at 14 doesn't mean that everybody has to... And it doesn't mean that you can tell someone their view is wrong because of it.

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Originally Posted by NItEMArE129

Ok, I agree with you. I misinterpreted your argument and I apologize for that. But I still don't think you should belittle someone's opinion about when you can know your sexuality. Just because you realized your orientation at 14 doesn't mean that everybody has to.... And it doesn't mean that you can tell someone their view is wrong because of it.

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I'm not trying to belittle anyone's opinion. I'm sorry. What I am trying to do is prevent a 15 year old from being more confused and drive himself up the wall with more anxiety. I'm sure it is scary for him. To ask or question him to see if he really feels "gay" or not, is (in my opinion) not fair. Let's trust him - and respond as if he is 100% confident in his orientation. (that's why I fired back - in a fascist way.)

Peace?

haha sure. And to the OP I'm REALLY sorry that we had this huge debate in your thread =\

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Originally Posted by NItEMArE129

haha sure. And to the OP I'm REALLY sorry that we had this huge debate in your thread =\

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Haha.. it was entertaining to read... and I got maybe one or two things out of it.. kinda lol

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Originally Posted by Bonnie46

why would your friends say things hurtful like that? : "promise me, that you'll never be gay." ??? maybe deep down, they already know, but are scared that all of the dynamics will change if you opt to tell the truth. I'm sorry that this is so difficult for you. You have to be brave and just accept who you are. there is nothing wrong with being gay. Many many wonderful, smart, funny, intelligent, loving, trustworthy, beautiful men and women are gay (or homosexual). You are correct - you are born with it. Don't let uneducated, and intollerant people tell you otherwise.

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Well they wernt meaning it like that... it was during our musical last year... and one of the gay guys was being... well really gross and immature... and I hung out with him sometimes... and they jocingly would say things like " promise me you wont be gay"... one of my favorites was " remember.... girls..women.. BOOBS!!!" haha... but I know they will accept me... and if not.. well then screw 'em.. ya it will hurt me at first... but I will get over it

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Originally Posted by NItEMArE129

No offense, but it's not technically true that you're born gay.... There's actually very little scientific studies out there about sexual orientation. And if you were truly "born gay" you would probably have felt urges like that since birth, and I know people who are gay but say they never had urges like that until a certain time. So don't go assuming that it's in your genes.

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What's more, a link HAS been found, in that the female members of family's of Homosexual men, are much more fertile than average. Suggesting that there is an evolutionary reason behind this. That in these family's, the females have an extraordinary attraction to men, and this affects certain males within that family. I'm not aware of all the research here, someone help me out here if you can.

My best friend is gay and I love him all the same for it. He came out to us when he was about 14 or 15 and I remember it was very hard for him. But now he totally accepts it and lives an openly gay life. If your friends don't stick by you they aren't worth keeping around. If they are guys make sure you tell them that you don't feel that way about them as I am sure they will be worried about. Let them know that although you are attracted to other guys you are not intimately attracted to them. That you care for them as just good friends and nothing more. It might take some getting used to but it will be worth it to live your life honestly instead of trying to hide your true self. I agree with the person who mentioned bisexuality. It is at least something to think about. Also I would suggest talking to a school counselor or youth leader or some other trusted adult about your feelings. They can't report anything to your family or the school or anything unless you tell them you are suicidal or homicidal. This way they can help you figure out everything and even help you figure out ways to talk to others about it. "straight" people talk all the time about their sexuality and such with these trusted adults and you should too. Everyone needs some help now and then figuring stuff out. I know that talking to our youth pastor really helped my friend find himself and stand up for the way he felt. I hope you find some comfort and relief in this.
Ps my friend told me about a sort of myspace page that is for gays... I honestly think it is called gayspace. Check it out. You could meet people and find support from others who have been there as far as coming out or hiding it. Plus most "straight" people aren't going to be on there so your straight friends won't "catch you" and even if they did they aren't going to then admit they were on that page too so it should be a relatively safe place to network. Just remember to be smart and safe if you ever decide to meet someone you found online. I tell my good friend that all the time too!

I came out to my school 2 months ago. This is how I did it.

Now a lot of my friends are guys who love to have sex with girls and think there are all that so I tried to do this carefully.
I first kind of brought up the idea of me being gay, such as saying "gay" stuff or whatever. And people began to think I would act gay to be funny. Eventually people got use to me "acting" gay that when I came out people were like oh okay nothings diffferent...

Now what I did was different than others. Instead of telling people close to me, I told some people who I new would be okay with it, but weren't really that close to me. A lot of these people were girls and girls are way more excepting.

I then came out to some guys that I talk to but don't really care about losing. And for the most part they are cool with it. They still question me about it every day to see if I'm lying, but that's the worst of it.

No one ever had an idea that I would be gay until I wanted them too. Even my super religious friend seems okay with it. He doesn't talk about it, but he doesn't treat me different. Im now actually working on telling my close friends. They have all been told I'm gay by other students but don't believe it. Lately though, they have been questioned so much, that they are asking my brother. And one of my close friends asked him if I was gay and that we would still be friends if I am, he would just treat me different. Which is what I wanted to avoid, I want to be treated the same. So I'm still working on that, and hopefully that will go well. A lot of my close friends make comments like these daily:

"gays should burn in hell"
"Gays should be put in a gas chamber like the jews"
"Gays are ing gross pigs"

And way more.

Now in an ideal world, I would be tellign you these people aren't your friends if they say that, but if your like me, you don't want to lose these people. Ive known these people for 9 years, and I don't want to lose them. But if I do, I do, I've made sooo many friends with coming out.

Now the boyfriend part. Once I told the girls I was gay, my name started to get spread around to the gay guys in my area. I have met a lot of gay people. What I did too, was join a myspace group that was made solely for gay guys in my area. So I met so many people that way too.

Also, my school has a gay-straight alliance, which a lot of gay people go too, (also a lot of straight), so I met some people there.

I chose a good time to come out, 11th grade, imo. Everyone is more mature, and there's so many people in my school, so there's bound to be people who are just like me. I am also fortunate to not be someone who gets picked on or made fun of, so I didn't really worry about that.

I think your first step should be to tell some people you think are okay with it, so you can build a support group.

Once you get use to people knowing you will be able to find a boyfriend. Im not afraid to talk abut being gay. I don't tell people who don't need to know. But I'm not afraid to talk about it anymore, and I'm not afraid to ask people out who are gay. You will get a lot of confidence once you accept it more.

I LL be your boyfriend or any 15 year olds boyfriend I'm a guy and want a guy