What religions do you believe are cults and why
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What religions do you believe are cults and why
Here's an excellent article that covers both religious and non religious Cults.
After all we are all members of a large internet based Cult in AMHD ;)
You have to admit though it will take a lot to get this one shut down
I seem to be the kiss of death for thread locks so I'll remove myself and go with Curly's link.
:)
This is a difficult question... while I have never referred to any one religion as a cult, the meaning itself seems to define any religion.
However, when you look at alternative definitions, it would only be in perspective... where one religion could not be deemed a cult unless it conflicted with the religion of him who is classifying it (did that make any sense? Lol :D)Quote:
Main Entry: cult
Function: noun
1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
...
...
5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion
Quote:
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
In my Survey of World Religions course last fall the professor described a cult as an unorganized/unrecognized religion.
Catholicism is a recognized/organized religion for example, but in his teachings Jehova's Witness was still largely considered a cult.
The sound of the word itself definitely gives way to a derogatory remark, although, the definition does not. That is why this could be a very "sticky" thread lol :cool:
If we really are a cult, can we have our first sacrifice now? I mean... I isn't volunteering or nuthin... we could draw straws or sumpthin... ya know.
You make me laugh yet again. Although this was the teachings of my professor, I believe him to have been an idiot.
*raises hand*
I'll make the KoolAid!
**and with that, I am out of here! Catch you all tomorrow!
Don't forget the peanuts Dr. J.
Anytime one guy makes the rules as he sees fit and isolates the members who follow like sheep, in my mind that is a cult! I could go on about the major organized religions, because a lot of them seemed to be isolated and follow like sheep but the jury is out for now.:cool: ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonspeeding_2005
First of all I want to applaud Demon for making a legit new thread for a legit new debate...
BRAVO!!
See... that wasn't so difficult! :rolleyes:
To me a cult is an organization that controls its members financially and morally, brainwashes them into very odd and sometimes dangerous or damaging beliefs, insists that these beliefs are the ONLY truth, cuts them off from family and friends who are not members of the cult, disowns them completely if they ever leave the cult... in other words, controls every aspect of their lives so that the cult member is "trapped". Leaving is very very difficult because they have surrendered their finances and burned their bridges as far as outside friends and family.
I would consider the JWs a sect (sort of a "fringe" religion) rather than a cult, but they are definitely bordering on being a cult.
Oh and by the way my definitions of "cult" and "sect" are not really my own opinions... they're what I learned in Intro Sociology in university, but I do agree with the sociological definitions. The article that Curlyben shared is really good, too.
As for the topic...
I would like to add that we tend to be quick these days to place judgement where judgement shouldn't be. I have seen cult, sect, denomination and religion all used somewhat interchangeably in many many readings.
I am happy with dictionary definitions of most words and see this term in a neutral light. I think any cult needs to be evaluated more on its context, intentions and actions. To wholesale see the term in a negative light isn't really good journalism, in my book. Its just a poor little word, for heavens sake!
To borrow a paraphrased line from the Wizard of Oz:
Is this a good cult or a bad cult? :p
Christianity was considered a cult when it first emerged.
My personal definition of a cult is a religious organization whose activities are totally anti Christian oriented. Satanists, voodoo practicing, black magic, witchcraft oriented groups, or groups which twist the Bible to such a degree that God ceases to be God, Jesus isn't important for our salvation, and biblical morality is ignored and so on.
I wouldn't call any religion which teaches that the Bible is inspired of God, considers the biblical God as the TRUE God, and teaches us that Jesus died for our our sins a cult. Neither would I call the required adherence to Christian morality or regular Bible study with the purpose of gaining apreciation for scripture mind control since we are told clearly in the scriptures to do these things.
Importance of Study
http://www.biblebelievers.com/misc_p...choes_001.html
Christian Living
http://www.fbcsf.org/lives/live.htm
BTW
Part of the danger in classifying people of a Christian sect as belonging to a cult is that
It involves a judgement of their present relationship to the creator and an assumed knowledge of their eternal future. It seems to denigrade their efforts to please God to the best of their PRESENT knowledge classifying their activities as totally worthless.
Of course this might very well be the case but not always. Only God knows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
Hmmm…..
So that whole Jew thing, cultish?
Jews don't believe Jesus is the salvation.
In fact, Jews have been around loner than Christianity.
In fact, Jesus himself was Jewish.
I think a Christian religion could be a cult if it kept people totally away from society and their friends and family, took away their freedom of choice, all their money, etc. Offhand I can't really think of a Christian religion that does that, though, at least not to the extent that it would be considered a cult. In my sociology class, so-called radical Christian groups such as the Amish, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc, were classified as sects rather than cults. The cult groups were the "traditional" ones people think of, such as the Moonies and Krishna Consciousness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainForest
That's what happens when we post information without first considering all possible ramifications and clarifying accordingly. I should have said anti-biblical-God oriented in the sense of dealing in the occult via the means I described previously.
Sorry I gave you that impression. I do not consider the Jewish religion a cult in the same way that I don't consider any of the other main religions cults. To me a cult has to be essentially demonic and anti God. The Jewish religion is neither.
The Jewish religion adheres to biblical morality, condemns spiritism, identifies Satan as God's enemy, recognizes the Biblical God as God and the Hebrew scriptures as inspired of God. However, like the Moslems the Jewish religion considers Jesus just a prophet. That is where we disagree because to Christians he is far more.
BTW
Not all the Jews for Jesus and the Messianics are "real" Jews though... a lot of them are gentiles posing as Jews to win converts. I find both groups highly questionable for that reason. I prefer the Jews for Judaism, a counter-missionary group, of course! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Starman
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_for_Judaism
Anyway I don't want to start an off-topic discussion here... I just thought you should know that most Jews who practice Judaism have a very low opinion of the organizations you mentioned, and consider them a threat to our culture, heritage, faith... to our people in general.
I was unaware of this enmity between the two groups.Quote:
Originally Posted by orange
So you consider the Messianic Jews a cult?
Basically, I consider them dishonest. They claim to be Jews, have churches that look like temples or synagogues, call their leaders "Rabbis" when they have never been to a Rabbinical yeshiva, and generally don't "admit" to being Christians until you've talked with them for a while. Personally I find that underhanded. When there was a large influx of Russian Jewish immigrants to Canada, the Messianics invited them to their "synagogues". These Jews had never been to a real synagogue, having been raised with communism, and since they also didn't speak English, they didn't know any better. That was when the Jews for Judaism was formed, to counteract what most Jews considered to be deception.
Personally I have a lot more respect for Christians who simply come out and say they are Christians. If you want to convert me to Christianity, say so! Don't pretend to be practicing Judaism, when really you are a Christian. The nuns at my boarding school would have never done something like that to me... I KNEW they were Christians. They are up front. Actually I know a lot of Christians, including a Jewish person who converted to Christianity, who also don't think much of the Messianics.
And no I don't consider them a cult... I do believe though, as the Jews for Judaism website says, that they use some cult-like tactics. From personal experience I've had with them on several occasions, I know this is true. For example, they had Passover seders on campus when I was in university, but didn't say they were Christians until after I and my Jewish friends had unsuspectingly participated in the whole seder, which we thought was a real Jewish seder. Stuff like that. Like I said in an earlier post, I consider groups like the Moonies and Krishna Consciousness to be cults. But while they're not a cult, I do think the Messianic groups have a rather skewed sense of integrity...
Anyway I've said all I wanted to say here. I feel bad for letting this thread get off topic... back to cults! :)
All I wanted to do was post a comment that said "Well Said". Instead, I get the, pass more rep. around message.Quote:
Originally Posted by orange
"...if you believe in it, it is a religion or perhaps 'the' religion;
and if you do not care one way or another about it, it is a sect;
but if you fear and hate it, it is a cult." Leo Pfeffer. A humorous quotation, but one that is uncomfortably close to reality.
I like the thorough airing out given to the definition of cult on this site:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/cults.htm
I have also browsed through the bookcase full of anti-AA books at Barnes and Noble. Many of those books accuse AA of being a cult. One in particular manged to validate how the organzation matched some 12 of 17 points of a cult. Again though, I would caution anyone to look at a bigger picture before making cult claims, lest a personal slant be in the mix. There is a profound difference between good debate and symmantics games!
When you say cult my mind goes to Charles Manson and the dude in WACO or Jim Jones, people who I consider to be way out of the box. As Orange pointed out they used the people they recruited for their own agenda and the result was wholesale death and destruction. In my opinion there are a lot of people who give up their free will to follow some a-hole who sees himself as some kind of god (REALLY HE"S A NUT). These people are what make him dangerous as they are willing to die or kill at his command! :cool: :confused:
CULT
C-reative
U-nified
L-eaders of
T-errorism
I believe anything doesn't allow freedom of choice is a cult
Hmmm well in that case... include my biological family as a cult!Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonspeeding_2005
I was born into it with no choice, was forced to stay until I was old enough to escape it, was "scripted" while there as to what to say, think and feel and often regulated in a very heavy handed way as to what I could do. :eek:
I always had a choice in my family mom and dads way or the belt
Sometimes I took the belt
YES that's a very good point. Freedom of choice is very important in a religious organization. I think most religions teach that G-d gave us free will, so what's the point of having it if religious leaders don't let us use it??Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonspeeding_2005
LOL. Sorry, I know it wasn't meant to be funny, but that is such a true statement that it's almost humorous! Children often seem to have none or very little rights, even if they are being neglected or abused. And they are often unable to defend themselves, only making matters worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by valinors_sorrow
So God allows us all behavior? I think that is wishful thinking.
Christianity and Judaism as well as Islam portray God as demanding certain behavior or else we suffer the consequences which can be as serious as death itself. The freedom given us was a freedom to be exercised within the parameters of God's laws. Complete freedom would lead to anarchy and the abuse of the rights of the weak by the strong. So if we are to use lack of total freedom as a criterion for classifying a cult we would have to include the three religions I just mentioned and many others as well which deamand that a worshipper behave himself or else.
I don't think G-d condones all behaviours, obviously not, otherwise there wouldn't be sin. But He does give people the freedom to decide whether they want to obey His laws or not. He doesn't force it upon people. That's what free will is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
A religion would be a cult IMO if it forced people to do things against their will. Being forced is not faith-based, it's fear-based. Could you really say that you were doing something because of faith if you did it only because someone was pointing a gun to your head?
Just remember that he does allow us are own free choices.
But someday you will have to answer for your transgressions
My definition is: An interest followed with exaggerated zeal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonspeeding_2005
All religions are Cults.
Although in the parlance of some religionists it has had a negative and pejorative definition to it as a religion or religious sect considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader, in standard English the word cult is quite innocuous and refers to any system of belief or worship.
M:)RGANITE
Just because man put a negative connotation on a word to throw doubt on what another group is doing, does not mean that they are any better than any other. With all the groups spinning off the original you need a score card to tell the players and know the differences between them. Every time some one gets his nose in a snit -BAM-go across the street and start your own group and dog out the one you just left! Can you imagine GOD scratching his head and saying -What are those humans doing now?Quote:
All religions are Cults
He is always complaining to me about them. But he is loving, kind, and just, and His will be the final word when He declares it to be harvest time. In the meantime, He expects us to treat each other right even when we think the other is wrong.
M:)RGANITE
The religion of ancient Israel, the forerunner of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, was cultic. The word 'cult' has been hijacked, like many words and a new meaning imposed on a perfectly good word. Those who use 'cult' as a pejorative have defined it so tightly that it can mean any religion or religious movement with which they, personally, disagree. This has not only bvecome a c onvenient shorthand tag with which to damn anyone and their faith without having to explain one'sself, but it becomes an engine of war, much as the word 'witch' was used in less enlightened times.
It is a reversal of understanding to designate certain movements as cultic, meaning thereby to damn them, and to characterise their adherents as cultic. It flies in the face of all that is good about religious faiths and is a barrier to understanding and friendship between people.
There have been sveeral excellent studies done on religious groups that marginalise and condemn to the trash can of religious consideration other groups whose teachings differ from theirs.
In each case, persecuting groupa are shown to be pathalogically disturbed with contention at their core and heart. A very disturbing revelation. If I remember coreectly, Jesus said, when told by his foloowres that there were some preaching his message who were not of their band,
"Leave them alone, dammit! Those who are not against me are for me!"
Why would anyone - especially one who professes to be religious - want to make life hard for others?
M:mad:RGANITE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonspeeding_2005
That is a very sensible posiiton to hold. Interfering in what others do is meddlesome and contentious. It's a matter of beams and specks.
M
Sometimes I see the term "cults" used closely with "false religions".
All cults and false religions can be traced back to a man who lived his life in rebellion to God and created the cult or false religion out of his imagination. I am using the derogatory definition in that case. One def. that states a cult is a religious sect generally considered to be extremist or bogus. Can't forget that bogus one either.
Scientology is an example of a cult. I could give examples of more however, I think the major interest when looking at a cult would be to see if it is harmful or helpful to its participants and for society in general. :)
Well, That's an interesting quote...Quote:
Originally Posted by Morganite
Anyway, yes, yes... words get used in all sorts of different ways and the meanings get changed around... but the English word "cult" comes from the French "culte," which came from the Latin word "cultus" (care and adoration), which came from the Latin word "colere" (to cultivate). So us deriving what we say are the true meanings, our understandings, or anything else for this word is absurd.
No one knows what a false religion is... no one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by magprob
I propose a big bonfire (only not in my yard, okay? :eek: - see "bad neighbor" thread in etiquette for details! ) whereby we sacrifice all our collective prejudices, ignorances, hatreds and terrors in the flames.
Then we can all join the cult called the "human race" and live peacefully therefter. :)
The joining of hands and the singing of Kumbaya is optional, of course :p
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