Is it allowed for us to debate over the creation/evolution? Or if there is a God, or if Allah is God?

If not, post your personal beliefs and why you believe that.

I thought I Was Lutheran-Christian, but when I was confirmed, I truly asked myself "Why do I believe this?" And my only answer was "Because my parents told me to" I couldn't find any true reason for my belief, or anything compelling me into thinking there is a God.

I am not saying there isn't a God, or anything out there, I would like to say that there is, but I am not going to put all my hopes into something that I can't know is there, and I certainly won't worship or claim belief in anything that isn't proven to be there.

I am not arrogant of religion, I have read the bible, and I want to learn hebrew to read the Torah and Arabic to read the Koran because you can't always trust translations to a degree of 100%.

Though an interesting fact (NOT SAYING YOU ARE WRONG) there are many things about the past of the Bible that many Christians don't know, here are two.

1. The bible that is used today is one that was translated from Latin. In Latin, there is no "the". Therefore you cannot accurately say "Jesus is the son of God".

2. The bible used today also is not the full. In the 2nd century many priests sat down and picked out snipets of the bible from the full text and then compiled those small segments to form the bible we know today.

But what do you guys believe, and why? I am interested in other peoples views.

I believe in all gods for every one has a right to believe. If there is something out there are we wrong for believing? Well I think we will find out when we get there. Maybe it will be nice maybe it won’t. I believe, do not think me stupid. People say there is no Santa Clause but I will tell you this. In my home we live pay check to pay check some times barley hang on, but every year I find a way to put present under the tree for my daughter, so let ad to list the Easter bunny and the tooth fairy. All this question will do is make people argue, and I hope that they have the sense their good god gave them to look past the argument and just answer yes or no. My answer you your question is yes I believe.

Actually no

The bible we have today is not translated from Latin.

It was translated from Greek, Hewbrew and Aramaic.

Their was a Latin bible and some translations come from it, but most are from the early text.

And again, no, the writing of the text by hard was sarcred, to alter anything would have been punished with death. So not much of a chance of change. And what you had was not one place doing all of the copies,
Some made copies here. Others there.

Actually the Latin adj had nothing to do with the bible as we have it.
Only the Latin bible that used to be used by the Catholic Church.

But the greek and the Hewbrew does not have all of the adj or words as English does, but the usage of words and their orders is what gives the meaning, so yes phases can be understood if correct understanding of the lanague is known and studied.

Sorry but your argument shows very lack of knowledge and understanding of modern Bible translations

You know I have often asked myself the same thing. Because my parents did sort of pound the jesus and God stuff in to my head as a child. I do however believe the bible is fake. There are so many contradictions and things hidden in that book and evils that are over looked and covered up. Im not the only one who thinks this way. Greenberg wrote some books on the subject. I feel a strong urge sometimes to become wicca but then I feel like if I do that Im being disloyal to god. Anyway go to this site and tell me what you think or just read the bible for yourself and actually read it. http://ggreenberg.tripod.com/david-book.htm

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Originally Posted by baal12

Is it allowed for us to debate over the creation/evolution? Or if there is a God, or if Allah is God?

If not, post your personal beliefs and why you believe that.

I thought I Was Lutheran-Christian, but when I was confirmed, I truly asked myself "Why do I believe this?" And my only answer was "Because my parents told me to" I couldn't find any true reason for my belief, or anything compelling me into thinking there is a God.

I am not saying there isn't a God, or anything out there, I would like to say that there is, but I am not going to put all my hopes into something that I can't know is there, and I certainly won't worship or claim belief in anything that isn't proven to be there.

I am not arrogant of religion, I have read the bible, and I want to learn hebrew to read the Torah and Arabic to read the Koran because you can't always trust translations to a degree of 100%.

Though an interesting fact (NOT SAYING YOU ARE WRONG) there are many things about the past of the Bible that many Christians don't know, here are two.

1. The bible that is used today is one that was translated from Latin. In Latin, there is no "the". Therefore you cannot accurately say "Jesus is the son of God".

2. The bible used today also is not the full. In the 2nd century many priests sat down and picked out snipets of the bible from the full text and then compiled those small segments to form the bible we know today.

But what do you guys believe, and why?! I am interested in other peoples views.

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You are correct the holy books of the world have been altered and changed as a way to keep its followers believing and to follow the faith.One thing I do believe is we all have a right to whatever faith that we understand be cause the preacher won't be there to defend you when God passes his judgement on you, :cool:

The bible is real in that you can see and hold it yes. But its what is written inside that is not. Like why does it say in one place that david killed goliath and then in another that someone else did it. And there are several different versions to the ten commandment story. Maybe those things all happened but who ever wrote that book needs to get their story straight.

Air though, we can prove through science, it is seen as O2(though that is a subscript '2').

I said I wouldn't worship anything I cannot see, I do not worship air.

I don't believe in God, but I do believe we need religion. I think a lot of people stop and really think "What would God do to me if I did this?" and that it would stop a lot of crime.

No, that older man is wrong. God is essentially love, he loves you no more than he loves those rapists, those child molesters, those bigamists. There is no one group or person he loves more than another. Theoretically.

I am not ignorant of your belief, I have read the bible on my own, I have researched it and numerous other religions. I do know there are a ton of contradictions in the bible that seem to lean that it is not real, and that it was there.

It is said that religion was made up to fill in the gaps science could not yet explain because there were tons of civil uprisings because the people were scared.

Say there is an invisible hippo behind you. Is it there? I said it was, you say God is there. You can't say "well hippos can't be invisible, that's stupid" and maybe this one is. You can say "it needs to eat" well once again, this one doesn't. The special thing is that you cannot touch it or see it. But it is there because I said so.


Does that make sense? No, but I can contradict anything you say about it not being there, as you can do with God, but you oculd be accepting of other views too. I think people are pretty ignorant these days, and need to loosen up and learn some stuff.

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Originally Posted by nymphetamine

the bible is real in that you can see and hold it yes. but its what is written inside that is not. like why does it say in one place that david killed goliath and then in another that someone else did it. and there are several different versions to the ten commandment story. maybe those things all happened but who ever wrote that book needs to get their story straight.

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Those were two different Goliaths.

That is not true the only holy book that has been changed is the bible! The Holy Quran is a perfect book all muslims if they are shehi, ahmadiyya, suni they all read from one book and one book only and that is The Holy Quran. To put The Holy Quran in the same catogory as the bible is an insalt to all Muslims! If you look at history the bible has what 23 different versions and none of them say the same thing. How can you believe in a religion that is hideing the truth a religion that has 23 different books, your comment is Ignarent and those are the kinds of things that people are teaching other people and that is why they run from Allah!

And are you saying Muslims are the only ones who know God?:cool:

www.allabouttruth.org explains it nicely. Records for the New Testament were dated 55 yrs. A.D.. . It's all very interesting. Me, I wouldn't even need proof. I've had my burning bush experience. Get direction from the Lord - for the asking... usually... It's called faith- believing even if not seen.
:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Ahmadiyya

That is not true the only holy book that has been changed is the bible! The Holy Quran is a perfect book all muslims if they are shehi, ahmadiyya, suni they all read from one book and one book only and that is The Holy Quran. to put The Holy Quran in the same catogory as the bible is an insalt to all Muslims! If you look at history the bible has what 23 diffrent versions and none of them say the same thing. How can you believe in a religion that is hideing the truth a religion that has 23 diffrent books, your comment is Ignarent and those are the kinds of things that people are teaching other people and that is why they run from Allah!

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Comparing muslims to different choices of religions is an insult mate.
The Word of God is unchanging from generation to generation, but language is a dynamic and ever-changing form of communication. We therefore have a responsibility before God as Christians to make sure that each generation has a modern translation that they can easily understand, yet that does not sacrifice accuracy in any way. Let’s be ever mindful that we are not called to worship the Bible. That is called idolatry. We are called to worship the God who gave us the Bible, and who preserved it through the centuries of people who sought to destroy it.

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Originally Posted by baal12

Air though, we can prove through science, it is seen as O2(though that is a subscript '2').

I said I wouldn't worship anything I cannot see, I do not worship air.

I don't believe in God, but I do believe we need religion. I think a lot of people stop and really think "What would God do to me if I did this?" and that it would stop a lot of crime.

No, that older man is wrong. God is essentially love, he loves you no more than he loves those rapists, those child molesters, those bigamists. There is no one group or person he loves more than another. Theoretically.

I am not ignorant of your belief, I have read the bible on my own, I have researched it and numerous other religions. I do know there are a ton of contradictions in the bible that seem to lean that it is not real, and that it was there.

It is said that religion was made up to fill in the gaps science could not yet explain because there were tons of civil uprisings because the people were scared.

Say there is an invisible hippo behind you. Is it there? I said it was, you say God is there. You can't say "well hippos can't be invisible, that's stupid" and maybe this one is. You can say "it needs to eat" well once again, this one doesn't. the special thing is that you cannot touch it or see it. But it is there because I said so.


Does that make sense? No, but I can contradict anything you say about it not being there, as you can do with God, but you oculd be accepting of other views too. I think people are pretty ignorant these days, and need to loosen up and learn some stuff.

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You said "It is said that religion was made up to fill in the gaps science could not yet explain because there were tons of civil uprisings because the people were scared" - I like that :)

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Originally Posted by baal12

1. The bible that is used today is one that was translated from Latin. In Latin, there is no "the". Therefore you cannot accurately say "Jesus is the son of God".

2. The bible used today also is not the full. In the 2nd century many priests sat down and picked out snipets of the bible from the full text and then compiled those small segments to form the bible we know today.

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1. Neither of the above is accurate.

2. No Scripture from any faith group is needed to recognize the incredible complexities of the Universe. I believe it takes more faith to believe "all from nothing" than to believe it was designed and created. In fact, assuming design and creation takes no "faith" at all.

I believe god is always watching over us.

I believe he gave us the air we breath the water we drink and the food we eat.

I believe he gives us are freedom of choice.
I believe he gives us the opportunity to believe in him. But he doesn't force us but one day we will have to answer for are sins to him.
I also believe that he allows us to repent for our sins and that they are forgiven.
If we truly repent.

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Originally Posted by Demonspeeding_2005

I believe god is always watching over us.

I believe he gave us the air we breath the water we drink and the food we eat.

I believe he gives us are freedom of choice.
I believe he gives us the opportunity to belive in him. But he doesn't force us but one day we will have to answer for are sins to him.
I also believe that he allows us to repent for our sins and that they are forgiven.
If we truly repent.

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You are to be commernded for seeing what so many supposedly reasonable people claim to be unable to see, the organizing hand of God in all things around us.

Romans 1:
20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Romans 1 says that we all know that God exists because we can see His incredible creation (natural revelation). Just as every art work has an artist, every book has an author, so every creation has a Creator. Creation is just too marvelous for it to have come about by chance; hence, cause and effect (God). Romans 2 says that we know that God exists because we all were given a conscience and we know the difference between right and wrong. We intuitively know that justice demands that we give an account of ourselves and stand in judgment someday. Romans 3 says that we know God exists, because He gave us the Bible (special or divine revelation). The Bible is clearly unlike any other book in history. We know the Bible is the Word of God because there are over 900 prophecies that we can use to judge its accuracy. Every prophecy so far has been fulfilled, so we can have faith that those still to come will be also. There were so many past prophecies concerning who would be the Messiah that the odds that Jesus is not the "Annoited One" are less than 1 in 10 to the 147 power. There are not even that many atoms in the whole universe! Finally, I know God exists because I had a "near death" experience where I saw heaven from afar and Jesus (God) up fairly close. If I could give advice to someone, it would be to "read your Bible." Read the New Testament first, becoming thoroughly familiar with the life and events surrounding Jesus' life. Then, go back and read the Old Testament. If you do, you will see Jesus by "type" from the earliest chapters in Genesis. The message of the Bible, from cover to cover, is Jesus.

You asked us to post our beliefs. These are mine:

I believe in a creator. I have no personal need to connect to any specific religion. I was raised devotely atheist, explored a great many religions and eventually went through the R.C.I.A. and was even baptised in the Catholic Church (long story there!) However I define myself as very spiritual in that I am actively involved in a relationship with the creator (some would call it God but this is not God in the sense others have, not at all.) I am also very interested in discerning the spiritual lessons and applying them faithfully on a daily basis.

With all due respect to other religions, I consider spirituality is to food like religion is to cultural cooking. I consider religion, while being quite diverse in the world and deeply interesting, to be somewhat limiting. As more and more religions mix it up, it will force the issue of those limitations too. We are seeing more of that all the time, I believe. Those who can manage differences respectfully will come out ahead, I suspect.

It has been a most curious journey and I have met many kinds of religious and non-religious people along the way. I have been fortunate to learn from each of them as well as books. The two most potent lessons I have received are:

1. We are here to learn to love each other.

2. We are accountable for absolutely everything we do.

So bottom line... God or Not, I would have to say Not since the creator I know is not the God that anyone ever talks about? I am not atheist, I am definitely not agnostic, and I am clearly not religious... I am frankly, not big on labels LOL. :)

Thanks for an interesting post.

I for one don't believe people that say they are spiritual yet they say they don't believe in God! A spirit void of God, Jesus & the Holy Spirit is a dead spirit. A self-dead spirit OR a satanic dead spirit.

So therefore a spirit not in touch with God & void of the Holy Spirit is far less powerful. It is void of having prayers answered. It is void of the guidance of one's will be led by the Holy Spirit. It is a self-spirit & void of the benevolent trust to council with.

I get a kick out of some people. They seem a bit desperate to me. They need the assurance of people in general & base their faith way too much in people. I think it may be an insecurity, as these people feign affection from everyone.

I put my faith in God. Family & good friends I can trust in also. I can walk in "love" but not have to be so influenced by people, that I can't trust God & all his promises.

The beauty is in the Holy Spirit. The rest is just mind games In my opinion. ;)

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Originally Posted by Starman

Those were two different Goliaths.

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Not two different Goliaths. The historical books had some overlap in what was recorded. What some are confused about are those records that appear in more than one place. Also, the arrangement of Bible books are not always chronological. As for "contridictions", (nymphatamine) how about giving us an example or two; that bit about Goliath ain't going to fly. Show me chapter and verse, please. If we are going to appeal against the Bible, we will have to consult it to see just what it really says.

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Originally Posted by Ahmadiyya

That is not true the only holy book that has been changed is the bible! The Holy Quran is a perfect book all muslims if they are shehi, ahmadiyya, suni they all read from one book and one book only and that is The Holy Quran. to put The Holy Quran in the same catogory as the bible is an insalt to all Muslims! If you look at history the bible has what 23 diffrent versions and none of them say the same thing. How can you believe in a religion that is hideing the truth a religion that has 23 diffrent books, your comment is Ignarent and those are the kinds of things that people are teaching other people and that is why they run from Allah!

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I would much rather follow Jesus Christ who tells me to love my enemies, tell them about Him so that they can have everlasting life than to follow Allah who tells you to kill me so that you can have paradise. You don't have to die as a killer/martyr to gain Heaven, just accept Jehovah's offer through His Son, Jesus Christ.

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Originally Posted by nymphetamine

I feel a strong urge sometimes to become wicca but then I feel like if i do that Im being disloyal to god. ]

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Go for it!!

Isn't true "wicca" the worship of nature and all things natural.

All of these, according to believers, are the work of a, or even 'the' god.

You must surely then have the right to worship the Sun which gives us warmth - Water that refreshes us - Earth that brings forth our sustenance and Air for us to breathe.

Personally I am atheist - but if I were to believe in anything - I would be nearer the 'wicca' and 'buddhist' standpoint. These beliefs I can at least understand their reasoning.

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(N.B. to the Moderators - I have not mentioned A. N. Other religion and therefore hope this post to stand on it's merits)

I have had too many blessings in life not to believe the Creator is watching over me, and through prayer and meditation have come to understand that being the best human being I can is the best way to follow the right path. I leave religion to those that want it but try to remain true to my own spirituality.

Well, it looks like this peacefull little post is Allah over! Here we go! Can't we just get along? There is a supreme being out there, in there, somewhere. Let's show it a little respect by first agreeing on that and not start another holy war.

I agree with you Magprob. It can only be sorrowful for the creator to watch his children fighting as they are. The trouble is some faiths, or rather the way they are interpreted, gives permission to people to be disrespectful of other faiths, and they think they do so with impunity from God. If that is God (and I suspect its not) then I want no part of such, which is why I answered here "Not God" too.

In my book, that is the first test of a faith -- does it allow for differences in a world that is just chockfull of differences? Religious tolerance is slowly emerging as the force de jour in the dawning of this "information age"; the whole world is beginning to see how very critical it is.

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Originally Posted by valinors_sorrow

The trouble is some faiths, or rather the way they are interpreted, gives permission to people to be disrespectful of other faiths, and they think they do so with impunity from God. If that is God (and I suspect its not) then I want no part of such, which is why I answered here "Not God" too.

.

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Yes Val - you have hit the nail on the head.

I have close friends both christian and muslim and both groups object vehemently the usurping of their holy books by self acclaimed "interpretors".

Doncha just hate it when they act like that!

There is only power occur in whole universe.then we have a narrow look about that power.so my thinking not achieve that power suddenly.my view or real one ideas occur in world are, that we considered a power in some shape or called name that power.

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

actually no

The bible we have today is not translated from Latin.

It was translated from Greek, Hewbrew and Aramaic.

Their was a Latin bible and some translations come from it, but most are from the early text.

And again, no, the writting of the text by hard was sarcred, to alter anything would have been punished with death. So not much of a chance of change. And what you had was not one place doing all of the copies,
Some made copies here. others there.

Actually the Latin adj had nothing to do with the bible as we have it.
Only the Latin bible that used to be used by the Catholic Church.

But the greek and the Hewbrew does not have all of the adj or words as English does, but the usage of words and thier orders is what gives the meaning, so yes phases can be understood if correct understanding of the lanague is known and studied.

Sorry but your arguement shows very lack of knowledge and understanding of modern Bible translations

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I Was actually just repeating the History Channel's documentary on the truth of the bible, and it sparked me to post here. I do believe the History Channel has a very reputable source of information.

The point that the only reason you believe in a religion because you grew up with it is very true BUT that is the only reason most people believe in their religion. For example if you grew up in a Jewish family that would most probably be your religion.
And the point that you don't even know God exists is the point of atheists all over the world. None knows for sure that God exists but I for one would rather believe that something good is going to happen to me when I die than just that I don't exist anymore. And that if mankind can think on this high of a level SOMETHING must happen, it can't just all go away.
In conclusion all we can do is believe and hope like hell that it's true.

I know there's a god and you know how?

If I take apart a tree atom by atom until I have a pile of atoms. Can a scientist make a tree with a pile of atoms?
No

That's how I know.

God Can he has done it thousands of times.

He actually takes those apart and makes quarks. And yes, nanophysicists are working on constructing molecules.

It is amazing to me that so many who think themselves educated and rational can look at the engineering all about them in the universe, and within them in cellular structure, everything perfectly working together, and then deny that there is an engineer somewhere who designed all these marvelous things.