Ask Me Help Desk - Atheists do not believe,How?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capuchin

I don't believe that God exists except in the minds of people who believe that he does.

What? Talk about a round about answer. Do you have faith God doesn't exist?

I don't think you meant to be hostile. I think you feel that you have to defend yourself at all angles and maybe that frustrates you. I respect your opinions and I understand where you are coming from. I really do. The things I am asking are truly begging the question. I am not trying to be difficult, just trying to open your awareness to things a little bit. I am sorry if made you feel like you have to fight to get your point across.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkrussell

If there is a supreme being, I would like to have a chat with him/her. (Pretty clever, covering all my bases. Why is God never a woman? Definitely stronger gender.) .

I don't believe God is either a Man or woman! :)

I am glad I started this thread, it just lets everyone have their say on religion...
And makes an enjoyable read for me...

Mountainman, depends how you define faith. If you define faith as the belief in something, even when evidence points to the contrary, then no I don't have faith that god does not exist.

Shatteredsoul, where was I hostile? I didn't feel under pressure to defend myself, I found it quite easy to do.

I find it easy to defend my beliefs as well, that doesn't mean I am not defensive about it.
Look, I am not arguing with you. I think you may want to argue with me because I just said, I don't think that is what you meant to be. It came across that way. That was MY PERCEPTION. Part of the problem is your inability to look at things from any other perspective, other than your own. I was trying to say, the way you are writing, it seems you are frustrated, I am sorry if I made you feel that way. Just take the apology for what it is and stop reading into it. I have no problem debating all day but you see black and I see white. I don't think it will change either of our minds. I have acknowledged that I respect and understand your opinion. That is my choice. You don't have to do either.

If there is one thing we can agree on, it is that we don't agree. The mind and the body are fascinating things, the fact that you don't believe you have a soul that connects it, is where we disagree.

I have blood vessels and a spine that connects them :).

From here, you seem like the frustrated one. Maybe we both cannot see it from other's perspectives :)

No not frustrated with you, frustrated that my stupid mouse keeps freezing up every time I try to post. I will be happy when I have batteries. Boy you sure are a friendly one!! Have a great day my friend, spine and all!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkrussell

If there is a supreme being, I would like to have a chat with him/her. (Pretty clever, covering all my bases. Why is God never a woman? Definitely stronger gender.) I have an issue with someone that sits back and watches all the death and destruction, and maybe, just maybe, grant a miracle to those that pray. All the power to those that do, sincerely.
.

My "God" is a woman. As a Wiccan, I worship the Lady, and her consort, the Lord, in all their faces with all their names.

But... that's my choice. I can easily see why others have the faith that they have in other gods (or NOT, in the case of atheism) that they do.

My heart goes out to atheists, actually. I have a hard time defending my minority faith to those that feel I should convert to something more mainstream... I can't imagine the pressure that an atheist has to conform to SOMETHING, to believe in a god/goddess just because someone tells them that it's better, or they'll be happier, or whatever.

People should be left to believe or not as they see fit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synnen

My heart goes out to atheists, actually. I have a hard time defending my minority faith to those that feel I should convert to somethign more mainstream....I can't imagine the pressure that an atheist has to conform to SOMETHING, to believe in a god/goddess just because someone tells them that it's better, or they'll be happier, or whatever.

Meh. You get used to it and ignore people. It actually helps to reinforce why you don't want to be a member of any religion, given all the hate and intolerance they throw around. The only time it bothers me is when a$$hat politicians make comments like this:

"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."

Guess who said it? Good 'ol Dubya's daddy!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capuchin

Mountainman, depends how you define faith. If you define faith as the belief in something, even when evidence points to the contrary, then no i don't have faith that god does not exist.

Shatteredsoul, where was I hostile? I didn't feel under pressure to defend myself, I found it quite easy to do.

Faith as defined by Merriam-Webster "something that is believed especially with strong conviction"

So with strong conviction you believe God doesn't exist. And being a scientific, logical person that makes you the person with more faith! See I took the easy way out and just believe (have faith) there is a God and trust in Him without all the answers.

I have no idea what you just said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capuchin

I have no idea what you just said.

What I am trying to say is you have mountains of faith to not believe in God at all... and being a logical, scientific person that is contradictory...

Let me ask you this and anyone else that doesn't believe in God

The Library of Congress in Washington D.C. presently contains over 70 million items (books, magazines, journals, etc.). Hhundreds of thousands of these were written by scholars and specialists in the various academic fields. "What percentage of the collective knowledge recorded in the volumes in this library would you say are within your own pool of knowledge and experience?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountain_man

What I am trying to say is you have mountains of faith to not believe in God at all....and being a logical, scientific person that is contradictory...

Let me ask you this and anyone else that doesn't believe in God

The Library of Congress in Washington D.C. presently contains over 70 million items (books, magazines, journals, etc.). Hhundreds of thousands of these were written by scholars and specialists in the various academic fields. "What percentage of the collective knowledge recorded in the volumes in this library would you say are within your own pool of knowledge and experience?"

Hmmmm, you have me thinking, this might take a while... LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountain_man

What I am trying to say is you have mountains of faith to not believe in God at all....and being a logical, scientific person that is contradictory...

Actually it takes no faith at all.

You don't have faith in believing what you do?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Actually it takes no faith at all.

It actually takes more faith to not believe that God exists at all because you have to constantly disapprove the existence of God to satisify your belief... I can just simply believe and leave it alone

I don't have to disprove anything.

You can't simply believe and let it alone, you feel a need to convert people and spread the 'good news' whereas I couldn't give two poops what religion a person is, as long as they are a good person.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I don't have to disprove anything.

You can't simply believe and let it alone, you feel a need to convert people and spread the 'good news' whereas I couldn't give two poops what religion a person is, as long as they are a good person.

I am going to say you are right on brotha...
And, we wouldn't want you to give two poops... LOL
Being a good person is what all of this boils down to. A believer or not, that is the best answer yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I don't have to disprove anything.

You can't simply believe and let it alone, you feel a need to convert people and spread the 'good news' whereas I couldn't give two poops what religion a person is, as long as they are a good person.

I am not trying to convert you, you can only make that decision. I am just trying to shed some light on things the way I see it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by startover22

I am gonna say you are right on brotha....
And, we wouldn't want you to give two poops....LOL
Being a good person is what all of this boils down to. a believer or not, that is the best answer yet.

Startover22... you didn't answer my previous question you were thinking hard about?

Well, Mountain MAN, I was just thinking about how many books I haven't read...
AND WHY THAT WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN MY FAITH! OR NO FAITH??
I think that could come across the wrong way, your question that is...

My dictionary (Webster's 2003) defines "faith" as:
1. Unquestioning belief, specifically in god, a religion, etc.
2. A particular religion
3. Complete trust or confidence
4. Loyalty

I think what you are trying to argue is that it takes "faith" to believe in god, but it takes "faith" to not believe in god. Looking at the definition of "faith" I'll give you that (sorta) but "faith' in the religious sense is "religious faith" which is very different. Beyond that, I wouldn't say I have " which is very different. Beyond that, I wouldn't say I have " (#3) in science because it's not always right. I have confidence in science, I believe in science, but I do at times, question it. Just because one does not have "religious faith" doesn't mean they are devoid of faith in other applications and meanings.

Quote:

It actually takes more faith to not believe that God exists at all because you have to constantly disapprove the existence of God to satisify your belief... I can just simply believe and leave it alone

Atheists aren't usually out to disprove god, it's theists who are out to prove he exists. That's why theists say things like " (#3) in science because it's not always right. I have confidence in science, I believe in science, but I do at times, question it. Just because one does not have ". They are trying to show and atheist where god is. As opposed to an atheist who just says, "god is in the sunset and in children's laughter". I don't wake up every morning and have to remind myself there is no god.

Quote:

Originally Posted by startover22

Well, Mountain MAN, I was just thinking about how many books I haven't read....
AND WHY THAT WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN MY FAITH!! OR NO FAITH???
I think that could come across the wrong way, your question that is...

How is it coming across the wrong way? I am just trying to make a point.

When you believe in something like God, there is no reminder either, HE is just there.
At least for me it is. Just like the child laugh is just there for you... Thanks Jillian. You have made a good point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountain_man

How is it coming across the wrong way? I am just trying to make a point.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your question...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillianleab

My dictionary (Webster's 2003) defines "faith" as:
1. Unquestioning belief, specifically in god, a religion, etc.
2. A particular religion
3. Complete trust or confidence
4. Loyalty

I think what you are trying to argue is that it takes "faith" to believe in god, but it takes "faith" to not believe in god. Looking at the definition of "faith" I'll give you that (sorta) but "faith' in the religious sense is "religious faith" which is very different. Beyond that, I wouldn't say I have "faith" (#3) in science because it's not always right. I have confidence in science, I believe in science, but I do at times, question it. Just because one does not have "religious faith" doesn't mean they are devoid of faith in other applications and meanings.

Atheists aren't usually out to disprove god, it's theists who are out to prove he exists. That's why theists say things like "god is in the sunset and in children's laughter". They are trying to show and atheist where god is. As opposed to an atheist who just says, "a sunset is a sunset and a kid's laugh is a kid's laugh". I don't wake up every morning and have to remind myself there is no god.

I am saying the faith is very abstract and not at all logical or proveable but Atheists have mountains of it because they unquestionably, in complete confidence, and with extreme loyalty believe God doesn't exist?

Quote:

Originally Posted by startover22

Maybe I am misunderstanding your question...

My question and point was of the 70 million literary items in the Library of Congress individually only probably know a fraction of a percent... Right? Then "Do you think it is logically possible that God may exist in the 99.9 percent that is outside your pool of knowledge and experience?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountain_man

I am saying the faith is very abstract and not at all logical or proveable but Atheists have mountains of it b/c they unquestionably, in complete confidence, and with extreme loyalty believe God doesn't exist??

Atheists don't require mountains of faith, why are you making stuff up?

I cannot answer for an atheist... I just can't...

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountain_man

My question and point was of the 70 million literary items in the Library of Congress individually only probably know a fraction of a percent...Right? Then "Do you think it is logically possible that God may exist in the 99.9 percent that is outside your pool of knowledge and experience?"

What does that have to do with anything since the Bible is the only book you believe to be true?

The rejoinder for that question is this:

In YOUR SPECIFIC life, where have you had PROOF that God exists?

Just because I can't see gravity doesn't mean I don't know it's there. Same thing with China. I've never experienced the green flash at sunset, or walked on the moon. I've never seen a black hole, or DNA strands through a microscope. All of these things are out of my personal scope of knowledge.

What you're trying to say is that God might be in the things that are out of an atheists personal scope of knowledge... that God exists in the cracks, per se.

The point you're not getting is that to an atheist---it's not GOD in the cracks. It's something not yet explained.

Just because I don't know the answer to something doesn't mean that the answer is God. For all I know, the answer is 42.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Atheists don't require mountains of faith, why are you making stuff up?

You have completely missed the point... and also the Bible is NOT the ONLY book I believe to be true...

Quote:

Originally Posted by shatteredsoul

No need to be hostile, I get your point. You think science has the answers for everything and that is where you base your beliefs. Science is right, until more is discovered. Why does it mean that that there can't be both?
The reason I brought up philosophy or psychology is because I am saying this is the human way of understanding how we think and how we behave. Nothing is absolute, it is a perspective. It truly amazes me how we discovered the ability to use science to create an understanding of our existence. It doesn't disprove that God doesn't exists. At all.
So, whatever you believe to be true, and however you understand things, that is your truth. Same with me, it doesn't mean that either one of us our right, it is just our perspective on what we know and the limited understanding we have.
We relate to time as something that moves forward, what I am saying is that it isn't PROVEN. We have created an understanding of time moving forward, that doesn't mean that it is. How do you know how long anything has really been here for? That was my point.
Feelings can be monitored by machines and scientists, they cannot be explained as to why we have them,or when we have them. (Other than pain, which is a physical reaction.) So our physical reactions in the brain can be detected, but the reasons why we have the emotions we have and where they came from cannot.

First off again, this has come into an interesting topic and it is exciting to see how different people think and their views. :)
I like when shattered said its our perspective;how we ourselves view things. True, like someone said earlier that if you do believe, in whatever though personally I do believe in God, you have this innate desire to tell everyone what it is you believe and it to be the absolute truth. I don't see anything wrong with that because we all have brains and majority of people can think for themselves and decide whether they wish to believe or not;again going back to your own perception.
Although it seems that people tend to make a bigger deal out of this subject then what it is by bringing in science, although science has helped us a lot, etc. Main point is you can choose to believe in whatever you want. I know what I believe and I do believe it to be true and it is my own personal point of view;opinion. Just because someone else has a different opinion doesn't I'll change my mind, maybe add to my belief if I choose but not likely to persuade me. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synnen

The rejoinder for that question is this:

in YOUR SPECIFIC life, where have you had PROOF that God exists?

Just because I can't see gravity doesn't mean I don't know it's there. Same thing with China. I've never experienced the green flash at sunset, or walked on the moon. I've never seen a black hole, or DNA strands through a microscope. All of these things are out of my personal scope of knowledge.

What you're trying to say is that God might be in the things that are out of an atheists personal scope of knowledge....that God exists in the cracks, per se.

The point you're not getting is that to an atheist---it's not GOD in the cracks. It's something not yet explained.

Just because I dont' know the answer to something doesn't mean that the answer is God. For all I know, the answer is 42.

All I am saying is that God may exist logically outside of your finite logic or reasoning!

In my life I know God exists because I was at the bottom of the barrel with drugs, booze, women, etc and had enough... started getting depressed and literally cried out that if you are real and you are God than do something to help me... the very next day my stepdad called up and said I have a job offer for you if you can get here by tomorrow (Vegas to Kansas) I left two hours later... God delivered me from myself! That is why I believe the way I do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiffyness101

First off again, this has come into an interesting topic and it is exciting to see how different people think and their views. :)
I like when shattered said its our perspective;how we ourselves view things. True, like someone said earlier that if you do believe, in whatever though personally I do believe in God, you have this innate desire to tell everyone what it is you believe and it to be the absolute truth. I don't see anything wrong with that because we all have brains and majority of people can think for themselves and decide whether they wish to believe or not;again going back to your own perception.
Although it seems that people tend to make a bigger deal out of this subject then what it is by bringing in science, although science has helped us a lot, and etc. Main point is you can choose to believe in whatever you want. I know what I believe and I do believe it to be true and it is my own personal point of view;opinion. Just because someone else has a different opinion doesn't I'll change my mind, maybe add to my belief if I choose but not likely to persuade me. :)

Says to spread the reputation so I can't give you a greenie,
But you have put it so well...

"I know what I believe and I do believe it to be true and it is my own personal point of view;opinion. Just because someone else has a different opinion doesn't I'll change my mind, maybe add to my belief if I choose but not likely to persuade me."

And this is true for me too... :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synnen

Just because I dont' know the answer to something doesn't mean that the answer is God. For all I know, the answer is 42.

Silly, the answer isn't 42, it's "C". The answer is ALWAYS "C"! :D

Jillian, you seriously need to read Douglas Adams.

The answer is always 42.

Mountainman, unfortunately I'm at work, and don't have time to type out my full response.

I don't knock your faith... but an atheist would say that you yourself found your way out of that barrel, by finally noticing and taking help that was offered to you. We, ourselves, can change our worlds.

Both points of view are valid, and both can have perfectly happy adherents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountain_man

All I am saying is that God may exist logically outside of your finite logic or reasoning!

In my life I know God exists b/c I was at the bottom of the barrel with drugs, booze, women, etc and had enough...started getting depressed and literally cried out that if you are real and you are God than do something to help me...the very next day my stepdad called up and said I have a job offer for you if you can get here by tommorrow (Vegas to Kansas) I left two hours later.....God delivered me from myself!! That is why I believe the way I do.

I'm glad He delievered you, that's a story you are able to share with others. So many get cared away though and end up trying to force it on them and end up driving them away... Not to say that is what you will do, just saying I've seen so many people do that, but that is a wonderful story that, if you choose, can share with others who have experienced similar situations. :)

And one last thing to add is that we are finite but as I believe God is INfinite(everlasting). We die... we don't exist forever in our human forms or the form we were born into and given. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synnen

Jillian, you seriously need to read Douglas Adams.

The answer is always 42.

Mountainman, unfortunately I'm at work, and don't have time to type out my full response.

I don't knock your faith...but an atheist would say that you yourself found your way out of that barrel, by finally noticing and taking help that was offered to you. We, ourselves, can change our worlds.

Both points of view are valid, and both can have perfectly happy adherents.

An atheist would say that... but what would you say?

I'd say that Karma works. Karma ALWAYS works.

Somehow along the way, you helped someone else. The good vibes from that came back to you threefold, and gave you the help you needed, when you needed it.

While I believe that having faith in the Lady has a tremendous influence on my life, I also think that she leaves most things alone, and lets our own actions determine the course of our lives--good or bad.