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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

This reasoning method has been tried before and failed. I suggest not going down that route. ;)

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I think the "athiests" failed to because from the looks of it you all did not have anything to say when that tatertot person made him/her point. You ended up blocking her and getting HiM/her removed from the site just because you could not prove her point wrong. Sore losers;) So I am not going to argue with closed minded people because it is a waist of time. Unless you can give me scientific proof/evendence of the non exsistance of God, then Atheism is just a religious belief like any other religion because you have faith in theory that there is no god despite the lack of scientific evidence.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

What about the burning bush? The snake that talks?

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Exactly, the God spoke through the burning bush and sent Moses to free the isrealite from Egymptian captivity. God did not just show up himself to rescue the Isrealites He sent moses to do it. Just like the devil used the snakes body to talk to adam and eve, he didn't just show up with his red suit and trident.

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Originally Posted by beatlejuice

I think the "athiests" failed to because from the looks of it you all did not have anything to say when that tatertot person made him/her point. You ended up blocking her and geting HiM/her removed from the site just because you could not prove her point wrong. Sore losers;) So i am not going to argue with closed minded people because it is a waist of time. Unless you can give me scientific proof/evendence of the non exsistance of God, then Atheism is just a religious belief like any other religion because you have faith in theory that there is no god despite the lack of scientific evidence.

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tatertot was a troll and no one got him/her blocked, he/she did that on their own for being abusive and intolerant.

Think atheism is a religious belief. You're wrong, but you may think what you wish.

And it's "waste" not "waist"; so if you have decided not to waste your time anymore discussing such things with us, there's a handy feature in your profile where you may unsubscribe from this thread.

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

tatertot was a troll and no one got him/her blocked, he/she did that on their own for being abusive and intolerant.

Go ahead and think atheism is a religious belief. You're wrong, but you may think what you wish.

And it's "waste" not "waist"; so if you have decided not to waste your time anymore discussing such things with us, there's a handy feature in your profile where you may unsubscribe from this thread.

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Okey... My bad, I seem to have offended some people here. My sincere apologies. Can I ask you a question with out you getting over emotional? Just answer the question interlectually please I am just curious. How do you KNOW for a fact, there is no god?

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Originally Posted by beatlejuice

Okey..... My bad, i seem to have offended some people here. My sincere apologies. Can i ask you a question with out you getting over emotional? Just answer the question interlectually please i am just curious. How do you KNOW for a fact, there is no god?

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Nobody ever knows anything for a fact. If there is no evidence for something, we must take that as evidence of it not existing.

We have no evidence of the tooth fairy or of a teapot in orbit around the Earth. Do you believe that these exist? Or do you have proof that they do not exist?

Of course you may ask me a question without me getting over emotional.

I KNOW there is no god in the same sense you KNOW there is no tooth fairy, Santa, Easter Bunny, Greek god, Aztec god, etc, etc. I think you get the point.

There is, in my opinion, no evidence for a god. Theists sometimes will point to the beauty of the sunrise, the birth of a child and so on as evidence, but I see those things differently. I also have found no reason to believe in a god; my life is happy, full of love, laughter, satisfaction and completeness without the belief in a supernatural being. So what's the point in believing in a being who will watch my every move, who insists I worship him and will condemn me to hell for things I do if I don't repent? I don't need that kind of mess in my life, it doesn't make me happy. I believe on the first page of this thread I made reference to how I think some people are born with the CAPACITY for religious faith and others are not. Try to think of it in that sense.

But, you can ask the same question of yourself - how do you KNOW there is a god? Where is your hard evidence? It's not the sunrise - that's the rotation of the earth. It's not the birth of a child, that's biology. Perhaps "god" saved you from a horrible situation, but maybe you saved yourself from that situation; no god, just you and your determination. Maybe you point to the existence of the universe as evidence for god; OK, but then why is it YOUR god? What makes YOUR god, the Christian god, the "right" god? Where's the evidence for that? There is none, aside from that religion and it's morals and teachings fitting in line with the type of person you want to be.

There is a quote which has been referenced here a few times:

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” [Stephen F Roberts]

And I especially like this one in regards to the people who ask for proof that god DOES NOT exist:

"If my interlocutor desires to convince me that Jupiter has inhabitants, and that his description of them is accurate, it is for him to bring forward evidence in support of his contention. The burden of proof evidently lies on him; it is not for me to prove that no such beings exist before my non-belief is justified, but for him to prove that they do exist before my belief can be fairly claimed. Similarly, it is for the affirmer of God's existence to bring evidence in support of his affirmation; the burden of proof lies on him."

— Annie Besant, Why I Do Not Believe in God (London, 1887)

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Originally Posted by Capuchin

Nobody ever knows anything for a fact. If there is no evidence for something, we must take that as evidence of it not existing.

We have no evidence of the tooth fairy or of a teapot in orbit around the Earth. Do you believe that these exist? Or do you have proof that they do not exist?

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"Nobody ever knows anything for a fact" Your first statement despite its flaws proves my point. You don't know for a fact that there is no god which makes you an agnostic. Just because you have not found any evidence of something in your limited knowledge does not mean its existence is not a possibility. Its just like saying aliens don't exist. I know There is no evidence that they do but just because man has limited knowledge of the Univeserse does not mean their existence is not possible.The farthest man has been able to explore in this universe is the moon and remotely Mars and that small area is like a speck of dust compared to the Grandeur of the universe and the millions galaxies in it. So for someone who probably has never even left the US to tell me there is no god is ridiculous and absurd. Really lets be serious. So Because no one can say for a FACT there is no god, there is no such thing as an atheist. If one professes to be an atheist it is a religious belief because you choose to have faith in that belief despite the lack of evidence.

beatlejuice... it is pretty plain and simple, you have faith in God so your faith helps you believe in him. Others do not, so they do not believe in him! Have you truly read this whole post? Just wondering honestly... things are repeating themselves here...

I agree with startover22. We accept that you believe in a god, good for you if that brings you comfort. No one is trying to divert you from that so please stop pestering those that do not believe the same as you.

You obviously do not know the definition of the words 'agnostic' and 'atheist' so please educate yourself on that point. An agnostic person does not believe that we could ever prove that there is a god but allows for its possible existence. An atheist does believe that any gods exist nor is there a need for one.

No one wants to prove your faith so please allow others theirs.

beatle - editing posts on this board, especially after they have been responded to is frowned upon, unless you make a notation in your post that you made an edit.

Further, in your response to Cap, I think it is important you understand the definitions of "atheist" and "agnostic"

atheist - Definitions from Dictionary.com

agnostic - Definitions from Dictionary.com

An agnostic thinks there is no way to know if there is or is not a god. An atheist denies or disbelieves the existence of supernatural beings. Thus, if I say, "There is no such thing as god" I am an atheist - I am denying the existence of god. By definition,t hat makes me an atheist. An agnostic would say, "I don't know if there is a god". They are very different things. Beyond that, by your line of reasoning, we must all be agnostic, because you cannot say for a FACT there is a god.

And we've already discussed in this thread why atheism isn't a religion, there's no need to do it again.

I have forgotten if I asked this before on this thread,but I do not think I did, if I have and you had answered, please ignore this question.

Do you personally believe in spirits or ghosts or other supernatural things even if you do not believe in God?

Good question Firmy, I wonder...

Nope. No ghosts, goblins, spirits; nothing which is considered supernatural.

Same here, no ghosts, spirits etc. My kids aren't scared of that stuff either :D

I don't find them scarey, I do believe in such though!

"I KNOW there is no god in the same sense you KNOW there is no tooth fairy, Santa, Easter Bunny, Greek god, Aztec god, etc, etc. I think you get the point.

I am sorry to disappoint you but I cannot say for a fact that KNOW that there is no tooth fairy, santa clause etc I think you get the point. I don't know. We as human have such limited knowledge and for you to say there is no god is basically saying you know everything. But I am sorry to be the one to tell you but you know nothing. Not just you we as humans know NOTHING. And man think just because he has acquired a little knowledge of science of the few things they see around him, (the earth and the moon) now he knows everything. Here are a few quotes from people who were not even christains about the amount of knowledge man has. We know nothing.

“The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." By socrates

"sixty year ago I knew everything:now I know nothing; eduactation is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance" By Will Durant

The only thing that we know is that we know nothing and that is the highest flight of human wisdom.” Leo Nikoievich

"You know nothing for sure... except the fact that you know nothing." JF Kenedy

“We don’t know a millionth of one percent about anything.” Thomas A. Edison



I have enough evidence for myself to know that God does exist and no one can tell me other wise. I may not have scientific evidence for you but I suppose that is why it is called a belief. I believe because I have faith in that God exists because of the evidence of what he has done in my personal life. In that same token your beliefs are not scientical fact and therefore a religious belief because you have nothing to prove you statement.

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Originally Posted by beatlejuice

I am sorry to disappoint you but i cannot say for a fact that KNOW that there is no tooth fairy, santa clause ect

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But aren't YOU the one that takes the tooth put puts money under the pillow? Aren't YOU the one that puts presents under the tree Christmas eve? Yet you don't know for sure that there isn't a Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus? Interesting...

beatle, no one here is trying to get you to turn your back on your faith or your beliefs. Remember you joined this thread and have decided to continue participating in it. I'm not trying to tell you god doesn't exist, I'm telling you I don't believe in god. You are free and welcome to believe in anything you choose. And as I said before, I'm not going to debate with you over atheism being a religious belief; so please leave it alone.

PS: you might want to read and think about the definition of agnostic - I think you are closer to being one than you might think, since you feel one cannot KNOW anything for certain.

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

beatle, no one here is trying to get you to turn your back on your faith or your beliefs. Remember you joined this thread and have decided to continue participating in it. I'm not trying to tell you god doesn't exist, I'm telling you I don't believe in god. You are free and welcome to believe in anything you choose. And as I said before, I'm not going to debate with you over atheism being a religious belief; so please leave it alone.

PS: you might want to read and think about the definition of agnostic - I think you are closer to being one than you might think, since you feel one cannot KNOW anything for certain.

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Mmmm, I think a lot of people are closer to being one than we may think... I agree!

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I agree with startover22. We accept that you believe in a god, good for you if that brings you comfort. No one is trying to divert you from that so please stop pestering those that do not believe the same as you.

You obviously do not know the definition of the words 'agnostic' and 'atheist' so please educate yourself on that point. An agnostic person does not believe that we could ever prove that there is a god but allows for its possible existence. An atheist does believe that any gods exist nor is there a need for one.

No one wants to prove your faith so please allow others theirs.

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Why do you get so defensive and think that I am trying to get you to believe in God. I totally respect your religious beliefs. I was not in anyway trying to get you to believe in what I believe. I just thought we were having an interlectual discussion like adults about Atheism in which all parties were voicing their opinions. I don't remember asking anyone to believe in God. In the same token I can also say YOU are also trying to make me believe there is no god and therefore I can also say you are pestering me with your beliefs. It just seems like when you people feel defeated and have nothing more to say in defense of your beliefs you just revert to saying "dont force your beliefs on others" which is really funny.. :D But that's fine... and Just for the record, I don't agree with your beliefs but by no means am I trying to get you to believe in mine, I respect yours.

P.S "An atheist doesnt believe that any gods exist nor is there a need for one." This is a religious belief and I respect that.