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Originally Posted by AK lawyer

No, the further information you gave doesn't add anything of substance.

The wife discovered the crack. You touched the light in an effort to discover the cause of the breakage. Again, it was none of your business. The only legitimate reason to touch it would have been to prove that whatever you may have done was not your fault. And that should been have done by your adjuster, not you.

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If the wrong wattage bulb was in the fixture, I would have been able to proof that "that" was the cause on the damage.

The adjuster would not take the time to examine the light, they would just pay the customer if they felt I was negligent. When the adjuster called me, I made it clear that I did not break it and so she denied the claim.

I have a sue clause in my policy. She told me, If they sue me, the ins co will not fight it, they will just pay the people. I don't want my ins to pay because, I know I didn't break it...

From post 5: "forcing company to terminate contractual agreements with Defendants and vacate their property."

Did the contract provide for termination in the event of a dispute?
What was the status/progress of the painting project at the time that you walked off?
Did the homeowner agree to cancellation of the contract?
If your insurer has indicated that they will pay the homeowner's claim- take that deal and don't look back.

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Originally Posted by Superfedz

If the wrong wattage bulb was in the fixture, I would have been able to proof that "that" was the cause on the damage.
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Not necessarily. But more importantly, by touching the fixture, you exacerbated the problem. Your problem is you think your cause is just and it very well may be. But the law is not always just. Having a just cause does not mean you will win in a court of law. What counts in court is evidence and the court reaches a conclusion based on where the evidence leads. You have several people here, with knowledge and experience with the law who are telling you your case is not strong. That you have done things that weaken your case. I won't predict how this will go, but it could go either way.

And based on what you have said, if you lose the cost will come out of your pocket not your insurer once this goes to court.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

Not necessarily. But more importantly, by touching the fixture, you exacerbated the problem. Your problem is you think your cause is just and it very well may be. But the law is not always just. Having a just cause does not mean you will win in a court of law. What counts in court is evidence and the court reaches a conclusion based on where the evidence leads. You have several people here, with knowledge and experience with the law who are telling you your case is not strong. That you have done things that weaken your case. I won't predict how this will go, but it could go either way.

And based on what you have said, if you lose the cost will come out of your pocket not your insurer once this goes to court.

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Thanks for your replies.

No one has commented on this fact, except the electrician. However I don't agree with him. An electrician is not a glass expert. I don't think it is possible for the light to have cracked in such a clean break by an accident. Examine the photo again. I believe it was a heat crack or manufacturer defect.

I also have talked to friends and showed the photo. After they have seen the pic, they all have stated, "you did not break that light"!

Also, they are suing for money back on the job as well. They are valuing my 5 days of work at their home, for only $250 (That's not even minimum wage). I normally charge a min. $250 per day, not per week... Just another example of how unfair they are.

Superfedz,

It is unclear to me why you first touched the light fixture.
You were painting or getting ready to paint, but at some point you decided, I'm going to stop what I am doing, and get up there and take the bulb out of that light?
Or did the homeowner see a crack and claim that you had bumped the light with a ladder or something? Then, you decided that the crack was caused by heat, and you wanted to prove that it was caused by a bulb of improper wattage, and in the course of removing the bulb, the piece broke out of the globe?

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Originally Posted by Superfedz

Just another example of how unfair they are.

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But, again, this is not about fairness, this is about the law.

And I would disagree that an electrician would not be familiar with the issues of the glass used in lighting fixtures. And it does not matter what your friends say. Are they experts in lighting fixtures? Do you really expect them to tell you you were at fault? Unless, someone hires a glass or electrical fixture expert to physically examine the globe around the bulb, there is NO expert testimony as to the cause of the break. And the cost of hiring such an expert is probably prohibitive.

I tend to agree with you, that the nature of the break, would indicate a previous fault in the glass. And maybe that fault was an imperfection in the manufacture, but until it was touched, it didn't manifest itself. I don't know and neither do you. Its all speculation that a judge will weigh to make a decision.

The bottom line here is that there is no direct evidence either way. All the evidence is circumstantial. The judge will rule based on his perceptions. So, again, it could go either way.

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Or did the homeowner see a crack and claim that you had bumped the light with a ladder or something? Then, you decided that the crack was caused by heat, and you wanted to prove that it was caused by a bulb of improper wattage, and in the course of removing the bulb, the piece broke out of the globe?

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That's the way I understood it.

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Originally Posted by smearcase

Superfedz,

It is unclear to me why you first touched the light fixture.
You were painting or getting ready to paint, but at some point you decided, I'm going to stop what I am doing, and get up there and take the bulb out of that light?
Or did the homeowner see a crack and claim that you had bumped the light with a ladder or something? Then, you decided that the crack was caused by heat, and you wanted to prove that it was caused by a bulb of improper wattage, and in the course of removing the bulb, the piece broke out of the globe?

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I painted the ceiling on Thurs Sept 12th, I placed a small piece of .31 mil plastic on it, and I never turned the light on. End of the day I removed the plastic and ceiling was done. Next day I started painting the kitchen walls, at around 11am, the homeowner (wife) stated, "oh, there is a crack in one of the lights". I turned around and said, sorry to hear that. At the end of the day, Friday, I said goodbye to the women of the house. Later that night, The husband called me flipping and being accusatory. After 30 seconds of listening to him rant, I said, "hold on, I did not break your light"! I explained my theory of a bulb being too powerful and he said those bulbs don't get hot.

I continued to deny and he continued to accuse.

Because I wanted to be paid in full when the work was completed, I agreed to contacted my ins. co. But I was pissed.

So after a 2 day weekend, I went back to their home to work in a different room. The homeowner went out for a while and I was determine to see if the bulb was the proper wattage and that is when the glass popped out. It was several days later.

This was the homeowners reasoning for the lights breakage. He stated, "you were the only one in the house the day the light broke, so you did it"!

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

But, again, this is not about fairness, this is about the law.

And I would disagree that an electrician would not be familiar with the issues of the glass used in lighting fixtures. And it does not matter what your friends say. Are they experts in lighting fixtures? Do you really expect them to tell you you were at fault? Unless, someone hires a glass or electrical fixture expert to physically examine the globe around the bulb, there is NO expert testimony as to the cause of the break. And the cost of hiring such an expert is probably prohibitive.

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I spoke to a friend who is an electrician, and he said, "CFL bulbs don't get hot", "someone broke that". I touched the globe myself, believe me, it was very hot, so he was wrong.

Yes, my 73 y/o stepfather is brutally honest. And I have many friends in the trades. As a matter of fact, this light fixture was the topic at a contractor forum.

What does a person that sells lights, or an electrician that installs them know about glass breakage by impact or heat or defect? I would think you would need a physics major. Even then, his/her opinion would only be an opinion, not a fact.

I am 51 y/o and believe me, throughout the years, I have broken lamps, bulbs, glass by impact etc, and I have never seen a break like this one... It's either a jagged crack or it shatters.

I'm not arguing with you. I'm trying to explain to you what will happen in court.

Scott, I know how judges are. If one got into an argument with his wife the night before court - forget it! If you say something to offend him - forget it.

Years ago, a judge asked me a question and my answer was, "that's irrelevant". Well, that didn't go over too well! :o)

Did the homeowner have any theory on how you managed to damage a globe inside a glass enclosure? Like (pretty absurd suggestion I know), you had an extension handle on a roller and in the course of loading more paint on the roller, you raised up the handle and it went inside the opening of the bottom of the fixture and hit the globe inside the glass?
Now, they are trying to essentially short you $ 1,000 for your work too? Wasn't the cost of the work covered in the contract? So, even if the insurance takes care of the light, you could still lose $1,000.
Then maybe the worst case is (if you go to court), you lose $1,500 or so, if you lose on the light and the reduction in pay. Why not let the insurance pay for the light and if your contract is solid, win on the pay issue and you are out nothing?
You have a bigger problem than the light if they are trying to dock you $ 1,000. Get the light issue out of the equation by letting the insurance cover it (and just get over it). Concentrate on getting proper payment for your work.

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Did the homeowner have any theory on how you managed to damage a globe inside a glass enclosure? Like (pretty absurd suggestion I know), you had an extension handle on a roller and in the course of loading more paint on the roller, you raised up the handle and it went inside the opening of the bottom of the fixture and hit the globe inside the glass?

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His exact words were, "you were the only one in the house the day the light broke"!
Oddly, the day and time the light broke is unknown!!

With all the time and effort going on, I would just try to find a replacement globe at a good lamp store and be done with it. Has to be less than the time spent for a court, filing papers etc.

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Originally Posted by ;

With all the time and effort going on, I would just try to find a replacement globe at a good lamp store and be done with it. Has to be less than the time spent for a court, filing papers etc.

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When someone sues, it's a matter of principle... This is a wealthy doctor suing me.
Apparently he believes I broke the light. It's like any other fight, people will fight for their cause and so will I!

Principle is nice but is it worth the cost of losing?

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Originally Posted by ;

Principle is nice but is it worth the cost of losing?

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I did not break the light so the answer is yes!

Ask that same question to the US military.

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Originally Posted by Superfedz

I did not break the light so the answer is yes!

Ask that same question to the US military.

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Ok so answer again when you are forced to pay $450.

And, if you don't think the US Military doesn't take into account the cost of losing, you are sadly mistaken.

[QUOTE=;][/QUOTI can think of three reasons for the inner globe to crack.
First, stuff just happens.
Second, heat.
Third vibration.

I would go to court, deny responsibility and keep my mouth shut. It is the duty of the plaintiff to prove his case. To do that he must testify. If this were in Virginia small claims there would be no lawyers.

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customer brought to the Plaintiff’s attention, a crack she had found in one of the kitchen light fixtures.

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To me that would appear to eliminate you, the painter. Pretty hard to break the inner globe without damaging the outer globe.
I would question the plaintiff as to what caused the plaintiff to take note of crack at this particular time. A crack line in the inner globe would not be that noticeable. Also ask if the light fixture had been inspected before the painting started.
I would question what kind and wattage bulbs have been used in the fixture in the past. Because it has a compact fluorescent bulb in it now does not mean that incandescent bulbs have not been used in the past. After establishing the kind and size bulbs that have been used in the past, I would ask what the maximum wattage bulb is specified for use in the fixture. All light fixtures have that specification. A good possibility that plaintiff won't know that, and no mater what size bulb has been used, it is possible that it was of too high wattage.

I would question as to what is above the kitchen. Is the room above a kids bedroom, where kids have been playing basketball, or perhaps jumping off bunk beds.

You never know what the judge will say but I don't think "because you were the only person there" will prove the plaintiffs case. You only have to create doubt.

I would ask for compensation for work done, materials purchased. Forget the Angie's list and money not earned.

Ask questions, state nothing, as I'm sure your attorney has advised. You have nothing to loose except time.E]

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Originally Posted by ;

Ok so answer again when you are forced to pay $450.

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Scott, many lawsuits are won by people giving in, and throwing the Plaintiff a bone. I am not a quitter, I am a fighter and I am not going to lay down and die for these people. If these people want it badly enough, they are going to have to spend a day in court and run the same risk of losing.

Here is another tid bit of info, the Plaintiff is a doctor, and questions is, is he willing to lose time at work making the big bucks? I doubt it! I wouldn't be surprised if they have the case dismissed. Remember, I filed a counter lawsuit so he has to appear in court. He most likely won't expect the counter lawsuit. And it was mailed to the courts last week so he probably didn't get the notice yet.

FYI - the courts can't force one to pay a small claims judgement.

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Pretty hard to break the inner globe without damaging the outer globe.

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Yes, I agree. That’s what I told the customer and he stated, “the inner glass is more fragile than the outer“.

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I would question what kind and wattage bulbs have been used in the fixture in the past.

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I mentioned the wattage to the customer and he said, “the light was shipped with the bulbs in them and they are the proper wattage, and cfl bulbs don't get hot”. I touched the globe, it got very hot.

I found the light online.
Tech Lighting 700TDFIRGP Fire Grande LineVoltage Monopoint Mini Pendant