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    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,893, Reputation: 5431
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    #41

    Sep 25, 2022, 08:40 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Name a time I have and you will have a point. I doubt you can. You are copying as you frequently do. Just another end-run.
    There isn't enough room to list them all here! My head hurts just thinking about them and the lack of cooperation and synchronicity.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 344
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    #42

    Sep 26, 2022, 03:27 AM
    is Choo an Obstetricians or does she specialize in anything prenatal ? Of course not .She practices in emergency rooms and spends a good deal of her time as an activist for extreme progressive causes

    I'll use the words libs use..... Peer reviewed scientific concensus says that

    The fetal heart rate gradually increases with gestational age from approximately 110 beats per minute (bpm) at 6.2 weeks to approximately 159 bpm at 7.6-8.0 weeks

    Role of ultrasound in the evaluation of first-trimester pregnancies in the acute setting - PMC (nih.gov)

    If no heartbeat is detected that indicates a pregnancy failure.Stacy Abrams and Dr Choo are just plain wrong. There is zero evidence that Dr Edward Hon who invented fetal heart monitoring in 1958 invented his device as a means for men to control woman's bodies . It is an absurd statement .

    The facts say that medical textbooks ,leading prenatal heart specialists ;the nation's leading heart hospital and all serious peer reviewed studies conclude that there is a fetal heartbeat at 6 weeks .
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,471, Reputation: 156
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    #43

    Sep 26, 2022, 04:12 AM
    There isn't enough room to list them all here!
    The usual evasiveness. You haven't a clue.

    The facts say that medical textbooks ,leading prenatal heart specialists ;the nation's leading heart hospital and all serious peer reviewed studies conclude that there is a fetal heartbeat at 6 weeks .
    Well said. I'm not sure how to continue a discussion with a person who has so little regard for the truth that she equates an unborn child with dirt. It just boggles the mind.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 344
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    #44

    Sep 26, 2022, 04:50 AM
    I ask a simple question ....is there any point in the pregnancy where killing the baby should be illegal ? The way I figure it ;acceptance of abortion before 6 weeks is already a huge political compromise by the pro-life policy makers. I just wonder if there are any acceptable restrictions for the so called pro-choice crowd .


    Peter Doocy attempted to get the official WH position from KJP

    here was the exchange :

    DOOCY: “Republicans are saying we don't want abortion after 15 weeks. Why can't you say how many weeks the president thinks the law should be?”
    KJP: “As you know, as you know Kevin McCarthy put out the GOP agenda.”
    DOOCY: “I’m not asking about Kevin McCarthy, I’m asking about Joe Biden and his position on abortion. How many weeks?”
    KJP: “Peter, I am answering your question. What Republicans are trying to do is take us backwards. They're trying to take away the rights and freedoms of Americans, that's what we're calling out and that's what we're going to continue to call out. House Republicans oppose a pharmacy bill that would deny women essential medications. As of September, 166 House Republicans have signed on to a heartbeat bill that would decide abortion at the federal level even though 28 of those members have since said decisions on abortion should be left to the state. And this week a Michigan GOP official said he wants to ban contraception. So we should really listen to what Republicans are trying to tell us and that's what we are speaking out against. And that's what we're going to talk about - about the national ban that Republicans are continuing, continuing to push when majority of Americans do not want that.”
    DOOCY: “We’re all covering the Republican plan. Why can’t you say how many weeks for Biden.”
    KJP: “No. I answered your question.”
    DOOCY: “You did not answer my question, Karine. Why can’t you say?”
    Press Briefing by Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre, September 23, 2022 - The White House

    The Dems dodge that question all the time because in truth they have no problem with snuffing babies even as they are being born,
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,471, Reputation: 156
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    #45

    Sep 26, 2022, 05:56 AM
    KJP: “No. I answered your question.”
    DOOCY: “You did not answer my question, Karine. Why can’t you say?”
    So the truth now becomes apparent. Someone here is channeling KJP!!

    The Dems dodge that question all the time because in truth they have no problem with snuffing babies even as they are being born,
    It might be more complicated. I'm convinced that most (or many? some?) dems are not on board with late term abortions, but they also realize that setting a limit will involve answering the question, "Why did you pick that number of weeks?" That's a dangerous question for them because it forces them to think. If they choose 24 weeks, then why not 22? What is special about 24? And if 22, then why not 18? How are 22 weeks and 18 weeks different? You can see where it is heading. You eventually backup to the moment of conception and are forced to admit that abortion is the taking of an innocent human life at any point in pregnancy. Then they are reduced to pointing out that men cannot become pregnant as if that had any impact at all on the moral consequences of abortion.

    It reminds me of a conversation I had with a brainless clinic escort. He claimed that the unborn was not alive until 24 weeks. Oh? Then what is it prior to 24 weeks, dead? And why pick 24 weeks? How is that point different from 23 weeks?

    Abortion, the choice of those who do not wish to think about it.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,471, Reputation: 156
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    #46

    Sep 26, 2022, 06:16 AM
    Name:  liberty.jpg
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    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 344
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    #47

    Sep 26, 2022, 06:49 AM
    The Dems sponsored ' Women’s Health Protection Act' states exceptions for the 'health of the mother'. That vague language is the loophole they added that overrules any limits in the act . The fact that late term abortions are rare is their defense of this . Who defines when the health of the mother is the deciding factor ? ..... a doctor like Kermit Gosnell ? At least 10,000 murders of babies occur after 20 weeks ;well into the 2nd trimester and where the medicine has advanced where premature babies can be saved
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    jlisenbe Posts: 4,471, Reputation: 156
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    #48

    Sep 26, 2022, 08:54 AM
    MAGA voters rampage in store in Philadelphia. Well...maybe not.

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1573860676417851393
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,893, Reputation: 5431
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    #49

    Sep 26, 2022, 08:54 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    I ask a simple question ....is there any point they have no problem with snuffing babies even as they are being born,
    And how do repubs help those babies once they've taken their first breath, especially if they've been born into poverty and broken families or to teen mothers or to women whose birth control didn't work? Those babies become just so much dust to brush away.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,471, Reputation: 156
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    #50

    Sep 26, 2022, 08:57 AM
    I ask a simple question
    And, predictably, you get no answer. Just more channeling of KJP. The non-answer is the perfect confirmation of this.

    I'm convinced that most (or many? some?) dems are not on board with late term abortions, but they also realize that setting a limit will involve answering the question, "Why did you pick that number of weeks?" That's a dangerous question for them because it forces them to think. If they choose 24 weeks, then why not 22? What is special about 24? And if 22, then why not 18? How are 22 weeks and 18 weeks different? You can see where it is heading. You eventually backup to the moment of conception and are forced to admit that abortion is the taking of an innocent human life at any point in pregnancy.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,893, Reputation: 5431
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    #51

    Sep 26, 2022, 09:05 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    are forced to admit that abortion is the taking of an innocent human life at any point in pregnancy.
    Let's chat about this after you've been pregnant and were in a very bad place.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,471, Reputation: 156
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    #52

    Sep 26, 2022, 09:32 AM
    I guess anything beats having to answer a serious question. "I'll say something silly that contributes nothing rather than having to answer a really vital question." And you will doubtless respond by complaining about putdowns. If you don't like them, then get serious in your replies. Stop the silliness.

    It bears repeating, even though there is no ghost of a chance it will be answered since the required courage is missing. "I ask a simple question ....is there any point they have no problem with snuffing babies even as they are being born." It's such a great question that I've asked the pro-abortion crowd many times. On only two occasions have I received answers, and in both cases the persons made it clear that they had no problem with an abortion for any reason up through the 38th week.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,893, Reputation: 5431
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    #53

    Sep 26, 2022, 09:47 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    "I ask a simple question ....is there any point they have no problem with snuffing babies even as they are being born."
    Being a mother who has experienced all the ups and downs of pregnancy including a traumatic delivery, I can only begin to imagine becoming pregnant under vile circumstances with no good future for the fetus growing inside me. It's a heart-rending decision to make, to get an abortion, but sometimes it's the only one.
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    jlisenbe Posts: 4,471, Reputation: 156
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    #54

    Sep 26, 2022, 09:56 AM
    Neither of us has ever been in combat, and yet it would be a stupid argument to suggest that we can have no opinions on war. The same is true of suggesting that a man can have no ideas about abortion. It's just nonsense coming from someone who lacks the courage to answer a simple, basic question. Is there any point in a pregnancy where you would not allow an abortion??? We all know you will not answer that under any circumstances.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,893, Reputation: 5431
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    #55

    Sep 26, 2022, 10:37 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    It's just nonsense coming from someone who lacks the courage to answer a simple, basic question. Is there any point in a pregnancy where you would not allow an abortion??? We all know you will not answer that under any circumstances.
    I DID answer your question and even used my own experience. Very few, if any, pregnant women say, "Oh, gee whiz, I'm so tired of being pregnant. Guess I'll schedule an abortion." Earlier in this thread I noted several reasons why an abortion would be sought. An abortion toward the end of a pregnancy is because the mother's very life is in danger if the pregnancy continues, or because the fetus has become mortally compromised or has died.

    It's not my place to "allow" anyone to get an abortion. That's the purview of the one who's pregnant. And I would urge her to get professional counseling before she makes a final decision.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,471, Reputation: 156
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    #56

    Sep 26, 2022, 11:44 AM
    I DID answer your question and even used my own experience.
    Perhaps you did, though in a predictably round-about way. You are basically saying you would never object to an abortion all the way through the 38th week for any reason. I think this one statement chillingly sums up your position. "Until they take a first breath, they may as well be dust." Tom pretty well summed up your position with this. "The Dems dodge that question all the time because in truth they have no problem with snuffing babies even as they are being born." I had hoped for better from you.

    An abortion is never necessary to save a mother's life towards the end of the pregnancy. In those rare cases, you would simply deliver a live baby. It's just another excuse the lying pro-abortion crowd uses.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,893, Reputation: 5431
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    #57

    Sep 26, 2022, 11:46 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Perhaps you did, though in a predictably round-about way. You are basically saying you would never object to an abortion all the way through the 38th week for any reason.
    Your gross and deliberate "misunderstanding" of my answers is why I'm reluctant to answer.
    An abortion is never necessary to save a mother's life towards the end of the pregnancy. In those rare cases, you would simply deliver a live baby. It's just another excuse the lying pro-abortion cause uses.
    "never" and then "rare cases". Yeah, sure. That makes absolutely no sense. AND you are so greatly misinformed.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,471, Reputation: 156
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    #58

    Sep 26, 2022, 12:23 PM
    Your gross and deliberate "misunderstanding" of my answers is why I'm reluctant to answer.
    OK. I'll just quote you and let the chips fall where they may.

    You said, "Until they take a first breath, they may as well be dust."
    You said, "It's not my place to "allow" anyone to get an abortion. That's the purview of the one who's pregnant."
    You said, "It's a heart-rending decision to make, to get an abortion, but sometimes it's the only one."
    You said, "I DID answer your question."

    The reason you are reluctant to answer is because your answers eventually reveal your true heart. Unborn babies are just dust to you and you would never oppose any abortion. Those are your words, not mine. Now you are wanting to beat a hasty retreat.

    BUT IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY SUMMATION, WHY NOT TRY MAKING A CLEAR AND PLAIN STATEMENT ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK THE LAW SHOULD BE ON ABORTION INSTEAD OF HIDING BEHIND MANY WORDS??? PUT ON YOUR BIG GIRL PANTS AND GIVE IT A SHOT FOR ONCE.

    The "rare cases" referred to late term pregnancies which endangered the mother's life.
    The "never" referred to the need to kill the unborn baby to save the mother's life.
    Perhaps this is clearer. "In those rare cases where a mother's life is endangered by a late term pregnancy, it is never necessary to kill the unborn child since it is actually easier to simply deliver a live baby." It makes sense to anyone who has progressed beyond the fifth grade.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,893, Reputation: 5431
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    #59

    Sep 26, 2022, 12:48 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    The reason you are reluctant to answer is because your answers eventually reveal your true heart.
    I am not reluctant to answer questions from people who don't twist my answers.
    Unborn babies are just dust to you
    And born babies are just dust to you.
    you would never oppose any abortion.
    Of course I would!

    And your insults and putdowns continue to flow thick and fast.
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    jlisenbe Posts: 4,471, Reputation: 156
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    #60

    Sep 26, 2022, 02:00 PM
    And born babies are just dust to you.
    First you say unborn babies are dust to you. Then, stricken I would think by your conscience (as well you should be), you try to put words in my mouth. Poor and obviously desperate strategy.

    you would never oppose any abortion.
    You replied, "Of course I would!" Fine. Tell us which ones you would oppose. (Note to other readers. She will never, ever do that. Watch and see.)

    These discussions always go off course because I am perfectly happy and even eager to express my beliefs while you run and hide when asked to do so. I'm sure you are a nice person and I'm sure you have tried to help other people in your life, but when you characterize unborn babies as nothing more than dirt, then it's really a sad day. I would say I'm shocked, but very little shocks me anymore.

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