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    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,531, Reputation: 5430
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    #21

    Sep 18, 2021, 09:26 AM
    At 19 weeks [pictured in a post above], your baby measures about 6 1/4 inches (15.8 centimeters) from the top of their head to the bottom of the buttocks. Their height is approximately 9 inches (22.8 centimeters) from the top of the head to the heel (crown-heel length). By this week of pregnancy, your baby will weigh around 9 1/2 ounces (272 grams).
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    #22

    Sep 18, 2021, 09:36 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    But any semi-thoughtful person can see the difference between an abortion to protect the mother's life versus what nearly all abortions are about which is convenience.
    No, not convenience. Desperation. Guilt. Anger at the father. Fear of being shamed. Unviable pregnancy.
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    jlisenbe Posts: 3,996, Reputation: 155
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    #23

    Sep 18, 2021, 09:40 AM
    At 19 weeks [pictured in a post above], your baby measures about 6 1/4 inches (15.8 centimeters) from the top of their head to the bottom of the buttocks (crown-rump length). Their height is approximately 9 inches (22.8 centimeters) from the top of the head to the heel (crown-heel length). By this week of pregnancy, your baby will weigh around 9 1/2 ounces (272 grams).
    So you are saying that the larger a person becomes, the more valuable his/her life is? Teenagers are of greater worth than babies? Do you really want to go there?

    No, not convenience. Desperation. Guilt. Anger at the father. Fear of being shamed. Unviable pregnancy.
    Would those be acceptable excuses to kill a new-born baby? "Officer, I became desperate and felt so guilty that I just had to kill the pesky little irritant. You understand, don't you?"

    Did you read the description of a second term abortion? Are you really OK with that? Did you even bother to watch the five minute video of testimony before Congress?
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    Wondergirl Posts: 38,531, Reputation: 5430
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    #24

    Sep 18, 2021, 09:43 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    So you are saying that the larger a person becomes, the more valuable his/her life is? Teenagers are of greater worth than babies? Do you really want to go there?
    No, I'm not saying that at all. No, I'm not trying to go there.
    Would those be acceptable excuses to kill a new-born baby? "Officer, I became desperate and felt so guilty that I just had to kill the pesky little irritant. You understand, don't you?"
    Newborn? The age of the fetus in that photo is 19 weeks.
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    #25

    Sep 18, 2021, 09:53 AM
    FACT: Unmarried women account for about 85% of all abortions. (from https://concernedwomen.org/abortion-...s-an-abortion/)
    Advice to men: Do not have sex with ANY woman until you are happily married to one. Then be faithful to her.
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    jlisenbe Posts: 3,996, Reputation: 155
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    #26

    Sep 18, 2021, 09:55 AM
    No, I'm not saying that at all. No, I'm not trying to go there.
    Then what was your point?

    Newborn? The age of the fetus in that photo is 19 weeks.
    You are saying you are fine with killing the 19 week baby as long as the mother has, "Desperation. Guilt. Anger at the father. Fear of being shamed." I'm just asking if those excuses also apply to a newborn? If not, then why not?

    Are you really OK with killing the unborn because the mother doesn't want to be embarrassed at being pregnant (Fear of being shamed)? Really? Is life that cheap to you?
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    #27

    Sep 18, 2021, 09:59 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Then what was your point?
    Slowly and carefully reread Post #22.
    You are saying you are fine with killing the 19 week baby as long as the mother has, "Desperation. Guilt. Anger at the father. Fear of being shamed." I'm just asking if those excuses also apply to a newborn? If not, then why not?
    Where did I say I "was fine...."?

    A newborn is usually "finished" and can be adopted or at least fostered.
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    jlisenbe Posts: 3,996, Reputation: 155
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    #28

    Sep 18, 2021, 10:04 AM
    Slowly and carefully reread Post #22.
    Yet another evasive answer. That's number 513 I think.

    Where did I say I "was fine...."?
    Fair enough. I'll change the statement. Are you saying you are fine with killing the 19 week baby as long as the mother has, "Desperation. Guilt. Anger at the father. Fear of being shamed?"
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    #29

    Sep 18, 2021, 10:18 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Yet another evasive answer. That's number 513 I think.
    Why haven't you gotten my point yet????
    Fair enough. I'll change the statement. Are you saying you are fine with killing the 19 week baby as long as the mother has, "Desperation. Guilt. Anger at the father. Fear of being shamed?"
    I would first want her to get unbiased counseling before she makes any decision.
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    #30

    Sep 18, 2021, 10:19 AM
    Why haven't you gotten my point yet????
    Because you haven't stated it. Evasion number 514.
    I would first want her to get unbiased counseling before she makes any decision.
    Evasion number 515. You must be going for the record!!
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    #31

    Sep 18, 2021, 10:24 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Because you haven't stated it. Evasion number 514.
    Evasion number 515. You must be going for the record!!
    Your questions are terribly phrased and attack the other (this time it's me). That's why these threads devolve into arguments instead of discussions.
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    #32

    Sep 18, 2021, 10:29 AM
    How about this?

    JL: Fair enough. I'll change the statement. Are you saying you are fine with killing the 19 week baby as long as the mother has, "Desperation. Guilt. Anger at the father. Fear of being shamed?"

    WG: No, I am not fine with that. I would want her to get unbiased counseling before she makes any decision.
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    jlisenbe Posts: 3,996, Reputation: 155
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    #33

    Sep 18, 2021, 10:40 AM
    Questions are terribly phrased? Really?

    Question 1."Then what was your point?" That's as simple as it gets. You have steadfastly evaded answering it, trying to suggest your point was made in post 22. Post 22 made no point concerning the material in post 21. None at all.

    Question 2. "Are you saying you are fine with killing the 19 week baby as long as the mother has, "Desperation. Guilt. Anger at the father. Fear of being shamed?' " Now that is another very simple question. Rather than answering it, you punted to some statement about seeking counseling. But the question simply asks you to tell us if you are alright with a woman getting an abortion for the reasons you listed. Are you saying that you would be OK with an abortion for one of those reasons as long as the woman was counseled? "Yes, you can have your baby killed by the dismemberment of an abortion since, after all, you are angry at the father."
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    #34

    Sep 18, 2021, 11:02 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Questions are terribly phrased? Really?

    Question 1."Then what was your point?"

    Question 2. "Are you saying you are fine with killing the 19 week baby as long as the mother has"
    In the future, please phrase your questions so they are not confrontational.

    Please check my post #32 to see what I added to my response.
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    jlisenbe Posts: 3,996, Reputation: 155
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    #35

    Sep 18, 2021, 11:14 AM
    In the future, please phrase your questions so they are not confrontational.
    In the future, please just answer the questions. Good grief.

    Please check my post #32 to see what I added to my response.
    Already had seen it.

    So you have evaded answering yet again. Even worse, you try and blame your evasiveness on me.

    "But the question simply asks you to tell us if you are alright with a woman getting an abortion for the reasons you listed. Are you saying that you would be OK with an abortion for one of those reasons as long as the woman was counseled? "Yes, you can have your baby killed by the dismemberment of an abortion since, after all, you are angry at the father."

    It is a serious question about a terribly serious issue, and one which I think you prefer to simply avoid. That's why you just refuse to answer.
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    #36

    Sep 18, 2021, 11:19 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Already had seen it.
    Apparently not.

    JL: Question 2. "Are you saying you are fine with 'killing the 19 week baby as long as the mother has"
    WG: No, I am not fine with that. I would want her to get unbiased counseling before she makes any decision.
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    jlisenbe Posts: 3,996, Reputation: 155
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    #37

    Sep 18, 2021, 11:53 AM
    So your only concern is that she gets counseling? The sheer brutality of tha abortion process is of no concern, nor is the destruction of a human life. I just find that to be amazing.

    And still no explanation of what point you were trying to make in post 21. Just more evasion and suggestions to look here and look there. Forbid it that you should just state your meaning.

    Evasion.
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    Athos Posts: 844, Reputation: 55
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    #38

    Sep 18, 2021, 11:56 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Oh stop with the fake theatrics. The principle of self defense is well established.
    Fake theatrics? FAKE? You just admitted your anti-abortion stance is a big lie. What's fake about citing that lie? You dug a hole so deep you will never be able to get out of it.

    My answer was an honest one.
    YOUR position is honest? But all the others are simply matters of convenience? Jesus, you are one incredible hypocrite.

    But any semi-thoughtful person can see the difference between an abortion to protect the mother's life versus what nearly all abortions are about which is convenience.
    Too late, pal. You can't backtrack now. As you like to remind everyone, your written comment is forever lodged in the archives here. So please don't give us any holy crap about abortion from here on in. Man up and shut up.

    The question remains on the board. If you were the doctor, how would you go about taking the life of that 19 week fetus pictured above?
    I see you have already answered your own question. Rather gruesomely, I note. What is it about you people that loves the grizzly details? You like the shock value, but your revulsion is notably absent when wacko anti-abortionists kill doctors and patients at abortion clinics. Life is not so precious then, is it?

    What could possibly be your point in having others describe abortion procedures as you have done? Seems pretty sick to me.

    Note to readers. Prepare for another plateful of evasion along with a side order of anger.
    Note to readers - compare Jl's posts with mine. Who's got the FACTS? Anger? Damn right - righteous anger at your phony compassion for a fetus, especially when it's your wife who needs the abortion. Then all compassion goes out the window.

    You will not find a medical book anywhere which says that an unborn child is somehow not alive since it is not breathing. It is preposterous.
    She was referring to viable human life. You always skip that inconvenient fact.

    Athos said it must be breathing to be alive
    I never said anything of the sort. Stop misquoting me.
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    jlisenbe Posts: 3,996, Reputation: 155
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    #39

    Sep 18, 2021, 12:04 PM
    Note to readers. Prepare for another plateful of evasion along with a side order of anger.
    Once again I predicted your response correctly.

    Just more theatrics.

    I haven't changed my position. My first statement was, "Perhaps. I imagine my wife and I would have agreed to pray and put it in God's hands, but I've never been in that situation. Now how about the other 99.99% of the cases?". Now of course you have not answered the question there. Business as usual.

    Gruesome and grizzly details? You just, as the famous line goes, can't handle the truth. That is exactly what happens in a D&E abortion. Contradict it if you can.

    You never said anything of the sort? Well, you never say anything of any sort. You are so hesitant to answer questions, it's hard to know where you stand. But you can solve that problem now. What is your standard of when life begins?

    Note to readers. You can be certain that question will not be answered.
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    Wondergirl Posts: 38,531, Reputation: 5430
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    #40

    Sep 18, 2021, 12:06 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    So your only concern is that she gets counseling? The sheer brutality of tha abortion process is of no concern, nor is the destruction of a human life. I just find that to be amazing.
    Counseling will include discussion of all those issues.
    And still no explanation of what point you were trying to make in post 21. Just more evasion and suggestions to look here and look there. Forbid it that you should just state your meaning.

    Evasion.
    Post 22.

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