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    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #1

    Aug 16, 2021, 05:21 PM
    Nail your colours to the mast
    The rout in Afghanistan has reveled something that we all hoped would not be true. The US cannot the trusted to support its allies, China has immediately seized on this fact to once again threaten Taiwan. The cracks in the alliance are exposed. Now we all understand that Afghanistan was an unwinnable war, just a Vietnam was an unwinnable war, but to take the Taliban at face value was a mistake of the first order. It isn't as though the Taliban were an unknown, their record is well known.

    So nail your colours to the mast so they cannot be pulled down

    https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/c...b6c8218c21eee6
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,332, Reputation: 156
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    #2

    Aug 16, 2021, 05:24 PM
    Thank goodness the Aussies stayed behind to support their afghan allies.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #3

    Aug 16, 2021, 05:30 PM
    we are wondering how to land a plane considering the americans left so many bodies on the runway
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,332, Reputation: 156
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    #4

    Aug 16, 2021, 05:44 PM
    You have a plane??
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #5

    Aug 16, 2021, 06:06 PM
    a very large fleet actually but many are parked up these days

    once again you have demonstrated your lack of knowledge
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #6

    Aug 17, 2021, 04:14 AM
    Yes the Quad should be concerned .A little bit of diplomacy should take care of their concerns .

    But I would caution the Chinese to understand that there is a difference to US commitment when there is a question of national interests . Our conflict with the PRC ;like it or not ,is existential. We will defend our allies in the Pacific rim.......even Australia

    Our interests in Afghanistan was about containing jihadistan .Nation building was a bridge too far . It was convenient to have bases in the middle of the Ummah to fight GWOT .It was not absolutely necessary to have them in Afghanistan .We can drone a AQ training camp over the horizon with someone in Tampa operating the toggle switch .
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,332, Reputation: 156
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    #7

    Aug 17, 2021, 04:40 AM
    once again you have demonstrated your lack of knowledge
    Sarcasm. You need to learn to recognize sarcasm. Maybe they taught that after you dropped out of high school?? (sarcasm)

    There is a difference between defending Taiwan and defending Australia. The Taiwanese have invested heavily in their own defense. Despite being much smaller in population than Australia, the Taiwanese Air Force has about 350 combat aircraft as opposed to a paltry 90 for Australia (not sarcasm). I always like to see us expend our resources on those who are willing to defend themselves (not sarcasm).


    https://www.nationmaster.com/country...more%20rows%20
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #8

    Aug 17, 2021, 05:56 AM
    again you demonstrate your lack of knowledge. If we had a larger military, to whom would we represent a threat? To China, I don't think so, even they are not intimidated by Taiwan, but it is a reason for their over sized military
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #9

    Aug 17, 2021, 06:18 AM
    why would Taiwan intimidate ? Taiwan offers them no threat except perhaps as an example of how free people live in contrast to the PRC tyranny .
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,332, Reputation: 156
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    #10

    Aug 17, 2021, 07:04 AM
    If we had a larger military, to whom would we represent a threat?
    It's not a matter of a "threat". It's a matter of being willing to prepare to defend yourself which Australia plainly is not going to do. Why? "We can call on the Americans!!" Again, if it was me, I'd cut you guys loose so fast your heads would spin, and you'd be on your own until you decide your own liberty is worth defending. No more American blood would be expended on the careless.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #11

    Aug 17, 2021, 02:51 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    why would Taiwan intimidate ? Taiwan offers them no threat except perhaps as an example of how free people live in contrast to the PRC tyranny .
    But that is the threat, a demonstration of a successful alternative to centralised control and one political expression

    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    It's not a matter of a "threat". It's a matter of being willing to prepare to defend yourself which Australia plainly is not going to do. Why? "We can call on the Americans!!" Again, if it was me, I'd cut you guys loose so fast your heads would spin, and you'd be on your own until you decide your own liberty is worth defending. No more American blood would be expended on the careless.
    again I say to you who are we going to defend ourselves against? who are we going to threaten? All this Trumpist nonsense aimed at Europe, where there might be a credible threat. There are no credible threats to our security in this region in the medium term so feeding your military industrial complex doesn't get the job done and the next time you give a war we might not come
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,332, Reputation: 156
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    #12

    Aug 17, 2021, 03:31 PM
    again I say to you who are we going to defend ourselves against?
    Fine by me. I don't really care. Just don't call us to pull your rear ends out of the fire when it all comes down. If you don't care enough to defend yourselves, then why should we? Put that imposing force of 90 combat aircraft in the sky and see how long they last.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #13

    Aug 17, 2021, 03:37 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Fine by me. I don't really care. Just don't call us to pull your rear ends out of the fire when it all comes down. If you don't care enough to defend yourselves, then why should we? Put that imposing force of 90 combat aircraft in the sky and see how long they last.
    Back in the day when we had F111 bombers capable of a nuclear strike the Indonesians were very afraid of us, and they built up their military. They saw a threat just over the horizon, but the threat to them is now China in the South China Sea. We are not and should not be feeding the paranoia, our front line air force is capable of meeting credible threats until you come up with something better than a flying brick
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,332, Reputation: 156
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    #14

    Aug 17, 2021, 03:39 PM
    our front line air force is capable of meeting credible threats until you come up with something better than a flying brick
    Sure they are, as long as we come running to your rescue.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #15

    Aug 17, 2021, 03:43 PM
    No, just sell us F22 like we wanted and we will have a more credible response
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #16

    Aug 17, 2021, 04:04 PM
    F 22 is no longer in production But yeah it is the superior jet
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #17

    Aug 17, 2021, 04:09 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    F 22 is no longer in production But yeah it is the superior jet
    You might ask yourself why production was discontinued forcing us to rely on an inferior product and then saying we are not doing enough to protect ourselves? Just maybe we need to protect ourselves from you
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #18

    Aug 17, 2021, 04:36 PM
    you buy F35 from us . You buy subs from France . You buy armored vehicles from EU . Where is your sovereign military industry ? The answer is beggars can't be choosy .
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #19

    Aug 17, 2021, 04:41 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    you buy F35 from us . You buy subs from France . You buy armored vehicles from EU . Where is your sovereign military industry ? The answer is beggars can't be choosy .
    We have a military vehicle manufacturing industry, Bushmaster vehicles and the like. we manufacture small arms, styer rifles and the like. we manufacture a variety of navel armaments, Patrol Boats, frigates
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #20

    Aug 17, 2021, 05:11 PM
    Sun Tsu figured out 26 centuries ago that he who controls the high ground wins.

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