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    Curlyben's Avatar
    Curlyben Posts: 18,493, Reputation: 1860
    BossMan
     
    #21

    Aug 6, 2021, 11:15 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    How are the republicans screwing people out of money?
    The conservative elite always line their own pockets while smiling about their "good works". Very much like the old skool confidence trick, look here, don't worry about what my other hand is doing...

    While there was a lot of noise about Hunter's "business" dealings, the nepotism displayed by Trump and the "business" dealings of Kushner are in a completely different league.
    The whole system needs a rethink. Why should we be "governed" by these over entitled, empowered people, who believe that they are above the law and even common decency. This isn't a party problem, but endemic in modern politics across the globe.
    Government is meant to be there to serve the will of the people, we see very little of that happening.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 342
    Ultra Member
     
    #22

    Aug 6, 2021, 11:27 AM
    It appears that in a crisis everyone uses Keynesian logic even though it has never worked in practice.(flooding the economy with monopoly money to stimulate the economy ) Where the Republicans fail is that they are correct in applying supply side tax cuts;but they are really bad at the other end of the equation ...reducing the size of government and controlling spending .

    Even though I am critical of his economic theories I keep this quote from Keynes close to my heart .
    Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,996, Reputation: 155
    Ultra Member
     
    #23

    Aug 6, 2021, 12:11 PM
    The conservative elite always line their own pockets while smiling about their "good works". Very much like the old skool confidence trick, look here, don't worry about what my other hand is doing...
    You mean like the Clintons and the Clinton Foundation, or Bill Gates and the Gates Foundation? Both are, of course, liberal democrats.

    You still have not explained how repubs are "screwing" people out of their money.

    While there was a lot of noise about Hunter's "business" dealings, the nepotism displayed by Trump and the "business" dealings of Kushner are in a completely different league.
    There is nothing wrong with honest business. Hunter Biden's activities were taking advantage of his name and his dad's unethical willingness to use his political influence to help out. What did Kushner do that was illegal or unethical?
    Curlyben's Avatar
    Curlyben Posts: 18,493, Reputation: 1860
    BossMan
     
    #24

    Aug 6, 2021, 01:06 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post

    There is nothing wrong with honest business. Hunter Biden's activities were taking advantage of his name and his dad's unethical willingness to use his political influence to help out. What did Kushner do that was illegal or unethical?
    True nowt wrong with honest business, however both sides of this are as guilty as the other when it comes to dodgy deals with foreign powers. Biden's was used as an attack advert during the election, whereas Kushner was conveniently forgotten about and not mentioned while he was "Special Adviser". As ever, one rule for us, and whatever they want to do for them in power.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 342
    Ultra Member
     
    #25

    Aug 6, 2021, 01:20 PM
    I am not aware of any business activities he conducted as an advisor to Trump that was the equivalent of Hunter Biden's "10 % for the 'big guy' . I am aware that he was a key player in the Mid East Peace process and was instrumental in negotiating the 'Abraham Accords ' which is the best framework for peace in the Middle East since the Camp David Accords .
    Curlyben's Avatar
    Curlyben Posts: 18,493, Reputation: 1860
    BossMan
     
    #26

    Aug 6, 2021, 01:28 PM
    tom, this is worth watching: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11947152/?ref_=ttep_ep3

    Please approach with an open mind, rather than clouded by partisan focus.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,996, Reputation: 155
    Ultra Member
     
    #27

    Aug 6, 2021, 01:32 PM
    however both sides of this are as guilty as the other when it comes to dodgy deals with foreign powers
    But you only mentioned the republicans as "screwing people out of their money". Why was that? Would that be an example of being, "clouded by partisan focus"?

    I have no issue with someone suggesting that pols sometimes make the lives of people worse rather than better, and do so to their own advantage, but when that gets pegged only on republicans, I think it's incorrect. Without any question, running up a national debt of tens of trillions of dollars is going to make our lives worse, and liberal dems bear more of the burden of responsibility for that than do repubs. Not all of the responsibility, but certainly more of it.
    Curlyben's Avatar
    Curlyben Posts: 18,493, Reputation: 1860
    BossMan
     
    #28

    Aug 6, 2021, 01:48 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    But you only mentioned the republicans as "screwing people out of their money". Why was that? Would that be an example of being, "clouded by partisan focus"?
    You're quoting out of context again, please stop.

    The conservative ethic is to ensure that the moneyed elite increase their wealth at expense the of the lower classes.
    Take, for example, Trumps tax law changes that only really benefited those of higher income.

    It's all a confidence trick, making scaregoats out of those less well off, while chowing down in the gravy trough.
    Shift the focus so the general populace don't notice they are getting royally screwed over.
    For example, immigration.
    The percentage of useless immigrants is very low, however they are presented as a scourge on society.
    Many immigrants merely want to work for a better life and improve society.
    I'm not going to comment further on immigration as I'm sure my point is lost.

    As for my comment to tom concerning the link, I'd like you both to watch the piece without any preconceived ideas or views, so not trying to destroy it without giving the subject matter some thought. You have a tendency of jumping in and commenting without looking at the whole picture. For sure, it will have a particular view, but the point is to get you thinking, rather than accepting what "your masters" tell you is the honest truth.
    There is far more out there than the narrow world view you tend to prefer.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,996, Reputation: 155
    Ultra Member
     
    #29

    Aug 6, 2021, 01:57 PM
    whereas the Reps, like UK Conservatives, merely screw everyone out of as much money as possible...
    That's your statement. Hard to imagine how you could have meant anything else other than what I described. And when you say, "The conservative ethic is to ensure that the moneyed elite increase their wealth at expense the of the lower classes. Take, for example, Trumps tax law changes that only really benefited those of higher income," aren't you basically doubling down on your statement???

    As to income tax cuts, in the U.S., the top 20% of income earners pay almost 90% of income taxes. The bottom 50% pay virtually nothing, and many of them actually get money rather than pay money. That being the case, any income tax relief given will benefit the people already paying taxes, and that is the top 20%. As a perfect example, Clete says he hasn't paid income taxes in Australia in the past 20 years. Since that's the case, he can't possibly see any tax relief. It's hard to reduce zero.

    Immigrants are generally not presented as a scourge on society, or at least not by major republicans. The complaint is that our southern border is like a sieve and ILLEGAL immigration is completely out of control. Seems like a reasonable complaint to me.

    I tried to watch your video. It directed me to Netflix unless I completely missed something. I don't have a Netflix subscription.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 342
    Ultra Member
     
    #30

    Aug 6, 2021, 02:32 PM
    66 minutes for business he conducted before he became a Presidential advisor ? Is there a condensed version that exposes alleged conflict of interests from Kushner's business interests benefitting from being an advisor to Trump ?

    As a Trump advisor he ushered through Congress the most extensive reform of criminal justice (the First Step Act,)we have seen since Quid got tough on crack users . He helped negotiate a revamped trade deal with Canada and Mexico.He worked on Trump’s effort to cut government regulations on businesses, expand school choice programs and increase investment in poor urban neighborhoods.(maybe that is where his interests intersect).

    Is there something besides speculation ? Does hiring family which is clearly nepotism ,necessarily bad ? President's often entrust family members with key policy agenda. JFK appointed his brother Robby as Attorney General . That is as powerful a position as nepotism can reward . Bubba entrusted Evita to take the lead in what he thought would be his signature policy agenda.

    So far the most serious thing I have heard against his time as an advisor to Trump was his using personal emails to conduct government business . Nobody better go there after Evita got a pass on that .
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 844, Reputation: 55
    Senior Member
     
    #31

    Aug 6, 2021, 05:54 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Curlyben View Post
    You're quoting out of context again, please stop.

    The conservative ethic is to ensure that the moneyed elite increase their wealth at expense the of the lower classes.
    Take, for example, Trumps tax law changes that only really benefited those of higher income.

    It's all a confidence trick, making scaregoats out of those less well off, while chowing down in the gravy trough.
    Shift the focus so the general populace don't notice they are getting royally screwed over.
    For example, immigration.
    The percentage of useless immigrants is very low, however they are presented as a scourge on society.
    Many immigrants merely want to work for a better life and improve society.
    I'm not going to comment further on immigration as I'm sure my point is lost.

    As for my comment to tom concerning the link, I'd like you both to watch the piece without any preconceived ideas or views, so not trying to destroy it without giving the subject matter some thought. You have a tendency of jumping in and commenting without looking at the whole picture. For sure, it will have a particular view, but the point is to get you thinking, rather than accepting what "your masters" tell you is the honest truth.
    There is far more out there than the narrow world view you tend to prefer.
    Your point is not lost on everyone here, just the fringe right-wing. They refuse to think - or to look at links if they think it may challenge their cherished beliefs.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,996, Reputation: 155
    Ultra Member
     
    #32

    Aug 6, 2021, 06:21 PM
    The ole ad hominem strategy again. Predictable. No answers.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
    Ultra Member
     
    #33

    Aug 6, 2021, 07:11 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Curlyben View Post
    .

    The conservative ethic is to ensure that the moneyed elite increase their wealth at expense the of the lower classes.
    Take, for example, Trumps tax law changes that only really benefited those of higher income.
    I find your premise nowhere stated, I am unaware of a conservative manifesto that sets such an objective. Yes the Trump tax cuts benefited the higher incomes but how could they not in an economy where the lower echelon don't pay much tax.

    It's all a confidence trick, making scaregoats out of those less well off, while chowing down in the gravy trough.
    Shift the focus so the general populace don't notice they are getting royally screwed over.
    For example, immigration.
    The percentage of useless immigrants is very low, however they are presented as a scourge on society.
    Many immigrants merely want to work for a better life and improve society.
    I'm not going to comment further on immigration as I'm sure my point is lost.

    .
    It is true that many immigrants are economic migrants who are cannon fodder for the less well paid jobs, but there are also those who are fleeing oppression and poverty. This is despite attempts to set up industries in their own countries. The fact is there are too many people and too few jobs and population is not even distributed and this will ever be so. Mechanisation has eliminated many low paying jobs leaving the poor disadvantaged, and the wealthy, wealthier but none of this is an excuse for mass migration
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,996, Reputation: 155
    Ultra Member
     
    #34

    Aug 6, 2021, 07:49 PM
    I find your premise nowhere stated, I am unaware of a conservative manifesto that sets such an objective. Yes the Trump tax cuts benefited the higher incomes but how could they not in an economy where the lower echelon don't pay much tax.
    Well said.

    The fact is there are too many people and too few jobs and population is not even distributed and this will ever be so.
    That has not been the case over here. We had historic lows in unemployment prior to Covid, and even now there are plenty of jobs for those who want them.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
    Ultra Member
     
    #35

    Aug 6, 2021, 08:42 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Well said.

    That has not been the case over here. We had historic lows in unemployment prior to Covid, and even now there are plenty of jobs for those who want them.
    Why then do you object to the open borders policy?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 342
    Ultra Member
     
    #36

    Aug 7, 2021, 01:00 AM
    that may be fixed at the end of the month when the generous freebees for the unemployed end (unless Quid extends them again like he previously did . )

    Open borders ? Where do you think the covid is coming from ? Quid began flying some of the illegals back to Mexico . But he could not fill the plane because covid cases are so high with the illegals crossing the border .

    US Is Flying Central Americans to Mexico to Deter Crossings | Texas News | US News

    So illegals with covid are crossing into the US . But Quid will not lift travel restrictions for the rest of the world ,including Canada .

    This would not be an issue if he had not dumped Trump policies of holding all entry migrants on the Mexican side of the border prior to proper screening . Over 200,000 illegally crossed over in July that we know of . Not all are caught so you can only imagine the real number . Over 15,000 unaccompanied illegal kids were caught crossing over in June .Those do not get returned to their native nations .

    The city of McAllen Texas is on the border . It has had to set up holding facilities to house all the covid positive illegals . Quid just keeps on releasing them in the city . Over 7,000 covid positive illegals were released in the city since February and the numbers are surging .

    This is another reason why it is a fantasy to think that a national vax campaign will control the virus . If he was serious about controlling the virus in the country ,step one would be a complete lock down of the border . That would be the most significant step to take instead of wagging the finger j'accuse at people who have not been jabbed .
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 342
    Ultra Member
     
    #37

    Aug 7, 2021, 01:18 AM
    Meanwhile the Dems are planning to use the $3.5 trillion (so far ) reconcilliation bill that will follow this bogus infrastructure bill to jam down our throats what the Slimes calls " far-reaching policy changes on immigration, labor and possibly voting rights " According to the Slimes the plan already "envisioned one of the most ambitious legislative efforts ever undertaken by Congress, including huge federal investments into expanding social and environmental programs. But with their legislative options dwindling, Democrats have concluded in recent weeks that they want to push the boundaries of what the budget can accomplish, beyond mere dollars and cents."

    Party leaders plan to include measures to create a path to citizenship for as many as eight million undocumented immigrants and to crack down on employers’ violating labor organizing rights. They are even weighing adding incentives to push states to expand ballot access. If they are successful, they could steamroll Republican opposition and enact those measures solely with Democratic votes, using a fast-track process known as reconciliation that shields legislation from a filibuster.
    Democrats Eye Budget to Force Policy Changes, Testing Bounds of the Rules (msn.com)

    Who could have seen that coming <sarc> ?????

    Republicans are like Charlie Brown forever being tricked by Lucy to attempt to kick the football .
    It's the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown - Football - YouTube

    One of these days we will all wise up to their game ..... but it may be too late .
    Peter Griffin Beats Up Lucy van Pelt - YouTube
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,996, Reputation: 155
    Ultra Member
     
    #38

    Aug 7, 2021, 05:12 AM
    Why then do you object to the open borders policy?
    For the same reason most people keep their front door locked. You want to have control over who enters. Terrorists and thugs, for instance, should not be welcome.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 342
    Ultra Member
     
    #39

    Aug 9, 2021, 05:11 AM
    The infrastructure bill has passed all legislative hurdles and will pass this week ;maybe as early as today. We were told that it was paid for .Now we know that is not so.

    CBO: Infrastructure Bill Could Add $256 Billion To Federal Deficit (wfyi.org)




    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
    Ultra Member
     
    #40

    Aug 9, 2021, 06:36 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    The infrastructure bill has passed all legislative hurdles and will pass this week ;maybe as early as today. We were told that it was paid for .Now we know that is not so.

    CBO: Infrastructure Bill Could Add $256 Billion To Federal Deficit (wfyi.org)




    Yes it was paid for, paid for in the sweat of the workers who will never know a real income

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