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    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #1

    Jun 5, 2021, 12:56 PM
    Did the mask mandates make a difference ?
    That is not me asking . That is not some conspiracy kook. That is left leaning VOX asking (There I gave you a source )

    “After a year of debates over mask mandates, lockdowns, and school closures, that mixed evidence might suggest a certain fatalism: Did none of these state policies really matter? Or was the virus going to spread no matter what states did? Was it all for nothing?... If you look at a list of states by their number of Covid-19 deaths per capita, it’s hard to discern much of a pattern.”

    So why did I have a burr in my saddle about Dr Fauci ? Because he was the lead advocate of the draconian lock downs . It was he that convinced Trump to put the economy into an artificial recession. It was his advocacy that convinced our elected leaders that it was a good idea to surrender our rights . We couldn't visit sick family in hospitals . We were even prevented from going to church.

    Feb 2020 he told us nothing to see here . "You cannot avoid having infections since you cannot shut off the country from the rest of the world,” “Do not let the fear of the unknown...distort your evaluation of the risk of the pandemic to you relative to the risks that you face every day…do not yield to unreasonable fear.”

    Then he suddenly advocated draconian lockdowns . He was against people wearing masks and then suddenly changed his mind. He was a skeptic of vaccines .He now says everyone has to take them. He is a media whore .
    In other words ,He is a politician and NOT the scientist he pretends to be .
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 951, Reputation: 55
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    #2

    Jun 5, 2021, 01:37 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    He was against people wearing masks and then suddenly changed his mind. He was a skeptic of vaccines .He now says everyone has to take them.
    Fauci spoke the truth as it developed over time. This required changing according to the science being discovered re the development of the virus. Why this has become a right-wing meme is beyond any thinking person. More Trump nonsense, no doubt.

    He is a media whore.
    A ridiculous statement. Nothing more need be said to know where you're coming from.

    In other words ,He is a politician and NOT the scientist he pretends to be .
    He PRETENDS to be a scientist? You've completely lost it, tom. I suspect you're playing the troll just to make outrageous comments.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #3

    Jun 6, 2021, 03:28 AM
    He may have been a scientist in his past . But a long time ago he became a political administrative hack . His whole performance during the pandemic has been a cya exercise and a progressive advocate . Recently he spoke of racism . He made the idiotic comment that because some minorities work in services that were deemed essential that there was disparities in minority treatment during the pandemic . Everyone in my plant
    was deemed an essential worker regardless of race . In his bubble headed logic everyone should've stayed home locked up receiving government checks . Yes it was he pretending that the science was dictating the decisions that convinced the country to needlessly lock down .
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 951, Reputation: 55
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    #4

    Jun 6, 2021, 07:49 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    He may have been a scientist in his past . But a long time ago he became a political administrative hack . His whole performance during the pandemic has been a cya exercise and a progressive advocate . Recently..............(etc., etc)........................................... in services that were deemed essential that there was disparities in minority treatment during the pandemic . Everyone in my plantace.................(etc.)................... ...... logic everyone should've stayed home locked up receiving government checks . Yes it was he pretending that the science was dictating the decisions that convinced the country to needlessly lock down .
    Trump blasted Fauci last night in NC as he's been doing for months now. He does this because Fauci didn't agree with Trump re the pandemic. As you should know by now, Trump blasts everyone who utters the slightest disagreemnt with him - a move taught to Trump by the rat-faced weasel Roy Cohn.

    Trump downplayed the seriousness of the virus enabling hundred of thousands of deaths , while Fauci was warning the public of its virulence and danger when its deadliness became apparent to science. Who was right?

    The lemming-like position of the right-wing is to follow Trump in all things, no matter how stupid.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,336, Reputation: 156
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    #5

    Jun 6, 2021, 09:06 AM
    Trump downplayed the seriousness of the virus enabling hundreds of thousands of deaths.
    A preposterous idea for which there is not one shred of evidence. Have to apply the Athos rule of believability on this one.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,802, Reputation: 5431
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    #6

    Jun 6, 2021, 09:39 AM
    Athos -- Trump downplayed the seriousness of the virus enabling hundreds of thousands of deaths.

    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    A preposterous idea for which there is not one shred of evidence. Have to apply the Athos rule of believability on this one.
    Trump quotes:

    January 2020: "We have it totally under control. It's one person coming in from China. It's going to be just fine."

    "It's going to disappear. One day, it's like a miracle -- it will disappear."

    February 2020: "We're very much involved. We're very — very cognizant of everything going on. We have it very much under control in this country,"

    March 2020: "Just stay calm. It will go away"

    "I would love to have the country opened up and just raring to go by Easter."

    "I think Easter Sunday — you'll have packed churches all over our country."

    "The better you do, the faster this whole nightmare will end. Therefore, we will be extending our guidelines to April 30th to slow the spread. ... We can expect that, by June 1st, we will be well on our way to recovery. We think, by June 1st, a lot of great things will be happening."

    April 2020: "Then I see the disinfectant which knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside for almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that.”

    May 2020: "When we have a lot of cases, I don’t look at that as a bad thing, I look at that as, in a certain respect, as being a good thing… Because it means our testing is much better. I view it as a badge of honor, really, it’s a badge of honor.”
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 951, Reputation: 55
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    #7

    Jun 6, 2021, 10:12 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    (Fauci's) whole performance during the pandemic has been a cya exercise
    Incredible misinformed statement!

    Trump's lack of action, almost to the very end, was the (whole) preposterous performance. Trump and his flunkies are trying to rewrite history with their outlandish claims against Dr. Fauci.

    Trump frequently told the public it was not a serious threat and would go away soon, including when the weather changed. He resisted public health policies that medical experts said could save lives and sent conflicting signals to the public about whether to wear masks. He would not wear a mask or social distance.

    Trump also sought to take little responsibility for the pandemic response, often saying it was the job of state governments, not his administration, to take action.

    The focus on the virus’s origin story also fits a pattern of Trump and his supporters trying to absolve the former president of blame by obfuscating his past actions or words and blaming others despite his role as the country’s leader.

    For example, many Republicans are now playing down the severity of the deadly Jan 6 attack on the Capitol, and Trump spent years trying to deny he equated the actions of white supremacists with racial justice demonstrators in the 2017 deadly clashes in Charlottesville.

    Public health experts warn that the effort to rewrite or distort the history of the pandemic is more than a political issue and could impact the ability of public health officials to prevent or mitigate a future pandemic.

    The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security said, “The fact that there’s an alternative false narrative being constructed (by Trump) is going to erode more trust between the public and the public health and medical community.”

    Trump and his trade adviser, Peter Navarro (one of the worst nutcases around Trump), also distorted the national discussion of a potential lab leak by conflating the question of whether the virus may have accidentally escaped from a lab with brazen accusations that China deliberately engineered the virus and then unleashed it with no supporting evidence.

    Throughout all of Trump's murderous advice to the American public, Dr. Fauci has been saying and doing the opposite of Trump and combating Covid-19 as Trump twiddled his thumbs.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,336, Reputation: 156
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    #8

    Jun 6, 2021, 10:26 AM
    And where did you provide an ounce of evidence that Trump “enabled” hundreds of thousands of deaths? Did you take into account the hundreds of thousands of deaths averted by fast tracking a vaccine?

    I think there is no question but that Trump soft-pedaled the virus early on, but when I compare that to NY City, where it has been doom, gloom, and shut-downs from the word go, and where the death toll has been terrible, then it's hard to say that Trump panicking would have helped much. Masks don't seem to have done much for us. I'm not sure anyone knows what works.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #9

    Jun 6, 2021, 11:37 AM
    Trump put in the travel bans six days after Fauci said the virus aint no big thing because it can't be passed from human to human .
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #10

    Jun 6, 2021, 12:03 PM
    It’s interesting that Hydroxychloroquine and Remdesivir both mention by Trump have now been supported as treatments for Covid . How quickly the media & Democrats yelled blasphemy to Trump and discredited the idea solely because he was promoting it . How many people would be ALIVE if the Democrats and the compliant media of the 5th column took the science of the medicine for what was & not politics?
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 951, Reputation: 55
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    #11

    Jun 6, 2021, 12:23 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Trump put in the travel bans six days after Fauci said the virus aint no big thing because it can't be passed from human to human .
    Fauci never said that, but I'll give you a pass on that because Fauci has been so misquoted so often on that very thing that it's understandable that some right-wing sources still repeat that.

    What Dr. Fauci really said, " “While it's clear this new virus can be spread from person to person,” the piece paraphrases Fauci, “it's unclear how easily that spread can happen.”

    Fauci clearly stated the virus CAN BE SPREAD FROM HUMAN TO HUMAN.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 343
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    #12

    Jun 6, 2021, 01:02 PM
    political hack speak . Jan 2020
    Fauci said in an interview : to John Catsimatidis, when asked “What can you tell the American people about what’s been going on?” ..... “Should they be scared?”Fauci's reply “I don’t think so,” “The American people should not be worried or frightened by this. It’s a very, very low risk to the United States, but it’s something we, as public health officials, need to take very seriously.”
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 951, Reputation: 55
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    #13

    Jun 6, 2021, 01:06 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    It’s interesting that Hydroxychloroquine and Remdesivir both mention by Trump have now been supported as treatments for Covid .
    Hydroxychloroquine has been ineffective in clinical trials. Doctors that still prescribe it do so as a treatment for another condition hoping it will therefore be legally ok for Covid-19. "They are flirting with malpractice" as one article puts it.

    Remdesivir may be helpful in hospitalized patients in acute care. The FDA, as far as I can tell, has not ruled on it for the general population.

    How quickly the media & Democrats yelled blasphemy to Trump and discredited the idea solely because he was promoting it
    Of course they did! The guy's hardly the one to listen to when it comes to a deadly virus (remember injecting disinfectant?). Trump is known to be playing with less than a full deck. His talent is conning those with few or no defenses to block him. "Twas always so with conmen.

    How many people would be ALIVE if the Democrats and the compliant media of the 5th column took the science of the medicine for what was & not politics?
    Not surprisingly, you got it backwards. It was your boy Trump who ignored the science and the reality. 4-500,000 would be alive had he done the right and obvious thing. But the coming election blinded him. He could see nothing but a second term and the pandemic clearly was not helping him - so he denied it existed.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,802, Reputation: 5431
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    #14

    Jun 6, 2021, 01:27 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    Not surprisingly, you got it backwards. It was your boy Trump who ignored the science and the reality. 4-500,000 would be alive had he done the right and obvious thing. But the coming election blinded him. He could see nothing but a second term and the pandemic clearly was not helping him - so he denied it existed.
    Early Trump quotes can be found in Post #6.
    teacherjenn4's Avatar
    teacherjenn4 Posts: 4,005, Reputation: 468
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    #15

    Jun 6, 2021, 01:41 PM
    Did masking work? Well, in my little classroom world, it did. We came back to in-person learning in February and just finished up on Friday. We washed our hands and wore masks. We had plexiglass and sat six feet apart. Was this an ideal learning experience? NO! But, we persevered, followed every rule from the state of California, and no one got COVID-19. Did we lose a lot of teachers this year? Yes! Was it due to COVID-19? No! It was due to the technology aspect for most, and difficulties with change. What a year….
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #16

    Jun 6, 2021, 11:57 PM
    If this is a low risk, I wonder what his definition of a high risk is, something with a kill rate of above 5%of the population perhaps
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,336, Reputation: 156
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    #17

    Jun 7, 2021, 05:28 AM
    the reality. 4-500,000 would be alive had he done the right and obvious thing.
    There is not a shred of data to support such a ridiculous claim. It's just TDS at work. The Athos principle applies here for sure. "If you don't wish to support what you posted...that is your right. But don't expect anyone to believe it."


    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,336, Reputation: 156
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    #18

    Jun 7, 2021, 05:33 AM
    For example, many Republicans are now playing down the severity of the deadly Jan 6 attack on the Capitol, and Trump spent years trying to deny he equated the actions of white supremacists with racial justice demonstrators in the 2017 deadly clashes in Charlottesville.
    Or you could put it this way.

    Practically all democrats have consistently downplayed the severity of the many deadly BLM riots, and they have spent years trying to deny their role in promoting and justifying these outbursts.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,328, Reputation: 10855
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    #19

    Jun 7, 2021, 01:48 PM
    Funny how easily libs can separate the white supremists from the peaceful protestors and prosecute criminals of 1/6, but conservatives cannot separate peaceful protestors from criminals the same way.

    Maybe that's the problem. Dems don't downplay the message of protestors, but can separate peaceful protestors from criminals.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #20

    Jun 7, 2021, 07:33 PM
    they do what? what happened in Oregon? was that peaceful protest?

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