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    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,747, Reputation: 156
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    #101

    Apr 21, 2021, 01:46 PM
    If I see it, feel it, taste it, hear it, smell it, it's part of my personal experiences.
    Like I said. You don't understand the question.

    I don't???
    You do believe in the wrath of God? Well then, that's quite a change.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,134, Reputation: 5431
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    #102

    Apr 21, 2021, 01:55 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Like I said. You don't understand the question.
    Like I said, state it so I do.
    You do believe in the wrath of God? Well then, that's quite a change.
    Read the OT.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,747, Reputation: 156
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    #103

    Apr 21, 2021, 02:45 PM
    Like I said, state it so I do.
    Nah. Ponder it until you get it. It's not difficult.

    I'm just glad to see you accept the John 3 passage. That's real progress.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,134, Reputation: 5431
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    #104

    Apr 21, 2021, 02:50 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Nah. Ponder it until you get it. It's not difficult.
    An educator refuses to simplify?
    I'm just glad to see you accept the John 3 passage. That's real progress.
    Jesus changes everything regarding God's wrath.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,747, Reputation: 156
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    #105

    Apr 21, 2021, 02:55 PM
    An educator refuses to simplify?
    An educator knows where the problem really lies.

    Jesus changes everything regarding God's wrath.
    So Jesus changed everything regarding the wrath that same Jesus spoke of in John 3. Got it! In your view, He was lying.

    In my view, He perfectly tells anyone who really wants to understand HOW things changed. "The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who rejects the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him." It is a message repeated over and over again in the NT. You don't accept that because it doesn't agree with the fantasy gospel you have invented to replace the real thing.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,134, Reputation: 5431
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    #106

    Apr 21, 2021, 03:06 PM
    You don't accept that because it doesn't agree with the fantasy gospel you have invented to replace the real thing.
    And you want all those "others" whom you don't like to go to hell, so you and the other 874 REAL Christians can enjoy heavenly bliss.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,747, Reputation: 156
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    #107

    Apr 21, 2021, 03:09 PM
    What a silly response. It has nothing to do with what I want. I'm telling you the words of Jesus. First you believe them, but now you don't. It's a very clear passage that you simply have chosen not to believe. You prefer your fantasies.
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 1,108, Reputation: 55
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    #108

    Apr 21, 2021, 03:51 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    What a silly response. It has nothing to do with what I want.
    It has everything to do with what you want. Calling it silly doesn't change the reality.

    the one who rejects the Son will not see life;
    Wow - you've sure softened what you used to say - that those who reject Jesus will spend eternity in hell being tortured every moment for all eternity. Kind of sick when you read it that way, isn't it?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,747, Reputation: 156
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    #109

    Apr 21, 2021, 06:14 PM
    You continue to rant and rave, but you don't disagree with me; you disagree with Jesus. You're not mad at me; you're mad at Jesus. I didn't give you my view, but His very clear statement.

    It's not up to me, and my opinions matter no more than your's. Your fantasy gospel has no validity. The true Gospel is the one found in the Bible. If you won't believe Jesus (and clearly you don't), then you will have to believe something else.

    This is the consistent testimony of the NT. There are literally dozens of other passages that essentially say the same thing. "The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who rejects the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him." A person can believe Jesus and the NT, or the person can believe his/her own preconceived notions. Your choice.

    Just bear in mind that I'm not telling you anything. I'm just quoting the Bible.
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 1,108, Reputation: 55
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    #110

    Apr 21, 2021, 07:20 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Just bear in mind that I'm not telling you anything. I'm just quoting the Bible.
    That's the problem in your very own words. You nailed it!

    You can't put anything in your own words - you refer the reader to a book. Yet, when others refer you to read a link on the net, you refuse.

    No, my argument is not with Jesus - it's with you. You're not man enough to admit it. You want the Bible to do your talking. I've already pointed out your misinterpretation of the Bible. Maybe one of these days, you'll listen. God gave you a brain - use it.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,747, Reputation: 156
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    #111

    Apr 21, 2021, 07:35 PM
    Nah. It’s with Jesus. You don’t believe His words and I'm just quoting Him. For instance, "I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”

    "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."

    "This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil."
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 1,108, Reputation: 55
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    #112

    Apr 21, 2021, 07:55 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Nah. Itís with Jesus. You donít believe His words and I'm just quoting Him. For instance, "I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.Ē

    "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."

    "This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil."
    Ah, took you long enough to do the threats. That is what your type of religion loves. Condemning others to an eternity of torture. That is your revenge for your station in life. You can't win in this life, so you'll win in the next life by sending all whom you envy to hell. It's soul-satisfying and very convenient when you gather with other evangelicals of like mind.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 4,747, Reputation: 156
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    #113

    Apr 22, 2021, 04:26 AM
    Athos basically wrote, "Dear Jesus, Ah, took you long enough to do the threats. That is what your type of religion loves. Condemning others to an eternity of torture. That is your revenge for your station in life. You can't win in this life, so you'll win in the next life by sending all whom you envy to hell. It's soul-satisfying and very convenient when you gather with other evangelicals of like mind."

    You and I just see this differently. You read those statements of Christ, and you seem to think only of hell and judgement, and then you get mad about it. I read them, and I am amazed at the love of God for lost sinners like the two of us. He sent His only Son, the Lord of glory, to take our place so we could have our sins forgiven and walk with God by virtue of having repented and put our faith in the worth and faithfulness of Jesus. It's a glorious message to me, and it's a glorious message to anyone willing to accept it.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #114

    Apr 22, 2021, 08:05 AM
    Pretty pompous making a rejection of you JL, into a rejection of Jesus!
    waltero's Avatar
    waltero Posts: 458, Reputation: 5
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    #115

    Apr 22, 2021, 08:45 AM
    making a rejection of you JL into a rejection of Jesus.
    Ah, right out of the scriptures. Pretty much an exact quote...now your getting it.
    you can't win in this life
    What is it you think you win "in this life"? There are no winners, all is lost. Seek the kingdom of God and get out of here before it is too late. If you don't grab the lifeboat now you will be forever lost in a World without God.
    so you'll win in the next life
    This life, the next life, what are you going on about? There is only "ONE" life.
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 1,108, Reputation: 55
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    #116

    Apr 22, 2021, 09:16 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Athos basically wrote, "Dear Jesus, Ah, took you long enough to do the threats. That is what your type of religion loves. Condemning others to an eternity of torture. That is your revenge for your station in life. You can't win in this life, so you'll win in the next life by sending all whom you envy to hell. It's soul-satisfying and very convenient when you gather with other evangelicals of like mind."
    Thank you, thank you, Jl. I can't thank you enough.

    Changing my criticism of YOU into criticism of Jesus is the very best thing you've ever done here to reveal how your mind is so skewed into revenge and hate that every person who ever reads your comment will immediately see what you've done and reject whatever else you have to say.

    It's your death knell here, Jl, and you have only yourself to blame. Poetic justice.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,134, Reputation: 5431
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    #117

    Apr 22, 2021, 09:44 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    anyone willing to accept it.
    We don't accept it on our own--we can accept it only with the Holy Spirit's help. We ourselves, on our own, can only refuse it
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 1,108, Reputation: 55
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    #118

    Apr 22, 2021, 09:46 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by waltero View Post
    This life, the next life, what are you going on about? There is only "ONE" life.
    Give it up, Waldo. The conversation here is way over your head.
    waltero's Avatar
    waltero Posts: 458, Reputation: 5
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    #119

    Apr 22, 2021, 09:56 AM
    give it up Waldo
    This thread was posted under Christian religion.
    You come up with: "you can't win in this life, so you'll win in the next"is life"

    Is that "what it means to believe God"?


    Leads me to believe, you might have jumped into a subject matter that you don't understand...what are you afraid of?
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 1,108, Reputation: 55
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    #120

    Apr 22, 2021, 10:15 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by waltero View Post
    This thread was posted under Christian religion.
    You come up with "you can't win in this life, so you'll win in the next"is life"


    Seems to me you jumped into a subject matter that you don't understand...what are you afraid of?
    Waldo, believe me. Have I ever lied to you? This reply of yours above simply emphasizes your being way over your head. If you enjoy playing the fool, then go to it.

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