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    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,303, Reputation: 10854
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    #1

    Jan 22, 2021, 08:06 PM
    Is this lying, cheating or stealing?
    Or just the dufus being the dufus?

    While he was hollering about a rigged election the dufus was trying his own rigging.

    Trump and Justice Dept. Lawyer Said to Have Plotted to Oust Acting AG - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

    And for those like me without a NYTimes subscription

    There was almost a Trump coup at DOJ, part of scheme to overthrow election | Boing Boing

    The Justice Department's top leaders listened in stunned silence this month: One of their peers, they were told, had devised a plan with President Donald J. Trump to oust Jeffrey A. Rosen as acting attorney general and wield the department's power to force Georgia state lawmakers to overturn its presidential election results.
    The unassuming lawyer who worked on the plan, Jeffrey Clark, had been devising ways to cast doubt on the election results and to bolster Mr. Trump's continuing legal battles and the pressure on Georgia politicians. Because Mr. Rosen had refused the president's entreaties to carry out those plans, Mr. Trump was about to decide whether to fire Mr. Rosen and replace him with Mr. Clark.

    The department officials, convened on a conference call, then asked each other: What will you do if Mr. Rosen is dismissed?
    The answer was unanimous. They would resign.
    Is this evidence enough to show how low the dufus will go to keep his power, prestige and influence as the most powerful man in the world? Imagine what a second term would be like under the dufus before we woke up and booted him from the White House!

    WHEW!
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,986, Reputation: 5430
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    #2

    Jan 22, 2021, 08:32 PM
    On the Rachel Maddow Show tonight, she mentioned that Georgia switching gears was their first effort. If they succeeded in moving those electoral votes to Trump, they probably hoped there would be a domino effect with other states caving in.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 342
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    #3

    Jan 23, 2021, 07:15 AM
    The AG serves at the pleasure of the President . There was no need to 'plot ' to remove him . He could've fired him ,

    Quid fired the National Labor Relations Board’s general counsel, Peter Robb ;who is confirmed by the Senate for a 4 year term that traditionally crosses over administration to administration . Trump refrained from ousting the emperor's pick Richard Griffin Jr. until after his term expired .
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,303, Reputation: 10854
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    #4

    Jan 23, 2021, 08:08 AM
    No comment on the subject of more dufus antics at DOJ to keep his job illegally? Robb serves at the pleasure of the president too. Was his firing unprecedented? Maybe, but no different than the moves the dufus made during his tenure which the right cheered on and defended.

    Does the firing change the illegal desperate schemes and lies of the dufus to keep his job? I don't think so!
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 342
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    #5

    Jan 23, 2021, 08:37 AM
    Does the firing change the illegal desperate schemes and lies of the dufus to keep his job? I don't think so!
    no just another payback to the big unions that funded his stay at home campaign . More proof that his calls for unity and civil discourse are empty rhetoric .
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,431, Reputation: 155
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    #6

    Jan 23, 2021, 07:04 PM
    More proof that his calls for unity and civil discourse are empty rhetoric .
    It certainly seems to be true.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,303, Reputation: 10854
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    #7

    Jan 24, 2021, 12:43 PM
    Biden's call for unity doesn't mean the GOP will co operate, negotiate, or do anything different than they have done which amounts to kissing the a$$ of a lying cheating bully. May be a while before they crawl out of his arse and stand on their own feet. More than likely they will obstruct whatever Joe puts forth until the next election like they did Obama, but I think Joe knows that and is fully prepared to deal with who repubs were before the dufus and after the dufus got here.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 342
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    #8

    Jan 24, 2021, 01:07 PM
    John Mitchell said of the Nixon administration 'watch what we do ,not what we say ' . I think unity is meant for his soon to be divided party .
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,303, Reputation: 10854
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    #9

    Jan 24, 2021, 02:31 PM
    Think the dufus will start his own party? That can't be good for repub unity.
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 566, Reputation: 55
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    #10

    Jan 24, 2021, 02:45 PM
    Trump is finished. Without the bully pulpit and twitter, the guy has nothing. No platform, no political philosophy, no issues he genuinely cares about - NADA.

    He'll go back to grabbing p**** until he's sent up the river without a paddle. (I like mixed metaphors).
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,303, Reputation: 10854
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    #11

    Jan 24, 2021, 02:49 PM
    Trump plots revenge on Republicans who betrayed him as Senate trial looms (msn.com)

    Stewing over election defeat by Joe Biden, four days after leaving the White House, Trump continued to drop hints of creating a new party, a threat some see as a gambit to keep wavering senators in line ahead of the opening of his trial, in the week after 8 February.
    He's desperate and repubs are scared.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 342
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    #12

    Jan 24, 2021, 03:12 PM
    I addressed the idea of Trump forming a 3rd party here

    Trump impeachment? - Page 8 (askmehelpdesk.com)

    It would not turn out well .

    Trump may or may not be desperate but not as much as the Dems are desperate to keep him relevant and in the news . Why else would they be bringing back the idea of a Senate trial ? It can't be to convict him ;that won't happen . The Dems don't have the votes . Nor do they have a Chief Justice to preside . (Art 1 Sec 3 Clause 6)
    The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

    So why continue to pursue this over Quid's legislative agenda ? Because the only thing that unites the Dems is their hatred of Trump
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,431, Reputation: 155
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    #13

    Jan 24, 2021, 03:34 PM
    Your comment about the dems hatred of Trump is exactly correct.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,303, Reputation: 10854
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    #14

    Jan 24, 2021, 04:59 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    I addressed the idea of Trump forming a 3rd party here

    Trump impeachment? - Page 8 (askmehelpdesk.com)

    It would not turn out well .

    Trump may or may not be desperate but not as much as the Dems are desperate to keep him relevant and in the news . Why else would they be bringing back the idea of a Senate trial ? It can't be to convict him ;that won't happen . The Dems don't have the votes . Nor do they have a Chief Justice to preside . (Art 1 Sec 3 Clause 6)


    So why continue to pursue this over Quid's legislative agenda ? Because the only thing that unites the Dems is their hatred of Trump
    The dufus screwed up and isn't above the law plain and simple. Repubs can overlook him all they want as they have been doing no matter what he does or says. Keep the lips puckered repub buttercups.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 342
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    #15

    Jan 25, 2021, 04:44 AM
    What law was broken ? None . The charges against him are political and only the most cynical Democrat could make that charge knowing how often their own side supported riots that continue to this day . Again, the Brandenburg v. Ohio decision set the incitement bar at knowing his words would result in the Capitol Hill riot. The Brandenburg decision implies intent . The intent by his own words were to peacefully demonstrate . Also Believers v Wayne County says that punishable incitement must include specific instructions to do an unlawful act AND to enlist the crowd to perform an illegal act .
    Heckler's veto is a legal concept that says that protected speech does not transfer into incitement if a crowd becomes hostile . Words like fight and strength are not words of incitement . Half the Dems could be charged with incitement if that was the case .

    Let me ask you ; did Bernie Sanders incite James T. Hodgkinson to shoot up a baseball game of Republican lawmakers ? Why not ? Under the standards you set he would be guilty .
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,431, Reputation: 155
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    #16

    Jan 25, 2021, 05:11 AM
    Hatred and political ambition do not recognize legal standards.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,303, Reputation: 10854
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    #17

    Jan 25, 2021, 05:16 AM
    Intent was established by the LIE of voter fraud (Repubs have hollered that for decades). Intent was established by numerous court cases without presenting credible evidence. Intent was clearly established with republican help after failing to establish a legal foundation for his claims allegations and lies he turned to more direct tactics to pressure lawmakers to change their state results which fortunately were recorded. I expect repubs to turn a blind eye to such public antics, but you would be out of your mind to think the dems would go along with them.

    If you think a dem was as wrong as the dufus then do something about it. Yeah it's all politics, and that's the way it's been played in America. Don't blame the dems because the dufus has a sizable base they fear because they depend on their votes, that can be riled up and lied to with ease. Come on Tom, he hasn't stopped his outrageous behavior since the LAST impeachment trial. He has escalated with utter impunity his bad behavior like no other in history. Yeah he certainly learned his lesson and as a political matter the impeachment of the dufus for a second time is as much an indictment on repubs as it is on the dufus.

    You brung him to the dance now own him.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 342
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    #18

    Jan 25, 2021, 05:45 AM
    Again with the word lie . Incite to insurrection only is established if he directed the mob to storm the Capitol and riot . Even then insurrection is a violent uprising against the government . What weapons were carried into the Capitol for that endeavor ? The mob was armed with cellphones with their GPS active ;and for most of them the most violent act performed was taking selfies . Turns out even the plastic cuffs were already in the Capitol ;abandoned by the Capitol Police .


    The challenges to the ballots were all completely legitimate and constitutional . He lost mostly because either he did not present sufficient evidence ;or judges did not want to hear the case .

    The real cause of this was not Trump complaining about the election being stolen. The cause was that Governors and State Courts took advantage of the covid pandemic to unconstitutionally usurp the proper authority of the State legislatures to decide how the vote is conducted . (Art 2 Sec 1 Clause 2 .... Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: )
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,431, Reputation: 155
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    #19

    Jan 25, 2021, 05:49 AM
    The cause was that Governors and State Courts took advantage of the covid pandemic to unconstitutionally usurp the proper authority of the State legislatures to decide how the vote is conducted . (Art 2 Sec 1 Clause 2 .... Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: )
    Exactly correct. I would add that the idea of mail-out ballots being sent to household addresses with very little in the way of ballot security left the voting process, in those states, open to charges of irregularities whether they actually occurred or not. It certainly makes it appear that dems are trying to win elections by any and all means available, ethical or otherwise.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,986, Reputation: 5430
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    #20

    Jan 25, 2021, 10:09 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    I would add that the idea of mail-out ballots being sent to household addresses with very little in the way of ballot security left the voting process, in those states, open to charges of irregularities whether they actually occurred or not. It certainly makes it appear that dems are trying to win elections by any and all means available, ethical or otherwise.
    And many of those by-mail voters voted Republican....

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