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    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,986, Reputation: 5430
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    #141

    Jan 22, 2021, 10:52 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    How would you put it in your own words? Honest question.
    Love.
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    jlisenbe Posts: 3,431, Reputation: 155
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    #142

    Jan 22, 2021, 11:02 AM
    Care to expand on that? What, for instance, is "love"?
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    #143

    Jan 22, 2021, 11:06 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Care to expand on that? What, for instance, is "love"?
    Unconditional.
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    jlisenbe Posts: 3,431, Reputation: 155
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    #144

    Jan 22, 2021, 11:27 AM
    Good reply.
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    jlisenbe Posts: 3,431, Reputation: 155
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    #145

    Jan 22, 2021, 12:11 PM
    Let me add this. Unconditional describes the word "love", but it still does not tell us what love IS. So if I am told to love my wife, and I ask you what that means, if you reply "unconditional", I still would not know what to do to love my wife. I cannot go out and "unconditional" a person. So I guess I'm really asking what this love you describe looks like.
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    Wondergirl Posts: 37,986, Reputation: 5430
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    #146

    Jan 22, 2021, 12:14 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Let me add this. Unconditional describes the word "love", but it still does not tell us what love IS. So if I am told to love my wife, and I ask you what that means, if you reply "unconditional", I still would not know what to do to love my wife. I cannot go out and "unconditional" a person. So I guess I'm really asking what this love you describe looks like.
    Unconditionally -- with no limits in any way : without restriction by conditions or qualifications

    This is about love between humans.

    Accept them for who they are, faults and all.

    We all have faults, that’s what makes us human. Even more, that’s what makes us individuals. When you can truly embrace someone for ALL their qualities, including their faults, you are choosing to love unconditionally.

    Go out of your way for them no matter what the distance.

    Loving someone unconditionally sometimes means you have to go travel great emotional distances to meet them. This isn’t always the most fun thing to have to do, but it is the road unconditional love will take you.

    When they are happy, you are happy.

    Unconditional love creates a special bond between two people. Their happiness and yours become so closely tied that making them happy is what you must do to be happy yourself. It’s the ties that unconditional love creates between two people:

    It pleases you to be around them.

    When you love someone unconditionally you always want to be around that person. You always want to be there for them, especially when they are sad. That’s when they need your love the most. Unconditional love is the love that draws you closer to your lover when they are the hardest to reach emotionally.

    You are open to living their way of life.

    Before your lover, you were likely quite set in your ways. You probably thought you wouldn’t change for anything. When you love someone so deeply you will accept them wholeheartedly. Their way of life will become your way of life too.

    You are quick to forgive.

    When you love someone unconditionally you really forgive them for their mistakes before they even make them. That doesn’t mean you’re giving them a golden ticket to mess up, it just means forgiveness comes easily.
    https://lovewideopen.com/what-does-i...conditionally/

    Christian love
    is giving to others those things (not necessarily material things) that you would want them to give you if you were in their situation -- and it's doing so even if they can't pay you back. In fact, it's doing so especially if they can't pay you back! -- agape, a selfless, giving love, unselfish and unconditional.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,303, Reputation: 10854
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    #147

    Jan 22, 2021, 12:52 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Unconditionally -- with no limits in any way : without restriction by conditions or qualifications

    This is about love between humans.

    Accept them for who they are, faults and all.

    We all have faults, that’s what makes us human. Even more, that’s what makes us individuals. When you can truly embrace someone for ALL their qualities, including their faults, you are choosing to love unconditionally.

    Go out of your way for them no matter what the distance.

    Loving someone unconditionally sometimes means you have to go travel great emotional distances to meet them. This isn’t always the most fun thing to have to do, but it is the road unconditional love will take you.

    When they are happy, you are happy.

    Unconditional love creates a special bond between two people. Their happiness and yours become so closely tied that making them happy is what you must do to be happy yourself. It’s the ties that unconditional love creates between two people:

    It pleases you to be around them.

    When you love someone unconditionally you always want to be around that person. You always want to be there for them, especially when they are sad. That’s when they need your love the most. Unconditional love is the love that draws you closer to your lover when they are the hardest to reach emotionally.

    You are open to living their way of life.

    Before your lover, you were likely quite set in your ways. You probably thought you wouldn’t change for anything. When you love someone so deeply you will accept them wholeheartedly. Their way of life will become your way of life too.

    You are quick to forgive.

    When you love someone unconditionally you really forgive them for their mistakes beforef they even make them. That doesn’t mean you’re giving them a golden ticket to mess up, it just means forgiveness comes easily.
    https://lovewideopen.com/what-does-i...conditionally/
    Even unconditional love leading to forgiveness has a balance and the example which illustrates this best can be found with the families of the victims of Dylann Roof forgiving him of murders, but not stopping his lawful trial for his actions.

    Victims' Families Meet Dylann Roof: 'I Forgive You, And Have Mercy On Your Soul' | HuffPost

    Victims' Families Speak Passionately About Forgiveness at Dylann Roof Murder Trial Video - ABC News (go.com)
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,431, Reputation: 155
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    #148

    Jan 22, 2021, 12:58 PM
    I like most of what you copied. The part about Christian love is particularly good.

    You are open to living their way of life.
    Here I see a problem. Pedophile? Violent person? Thief? Drug abuser? Conservative republican? (Sorry...I couldn't resist.)

    Accept them for who they are, faults and all.
    Many a child has become a poor quality adult because of parents who did that very thing. Don't want to study? Fine. Don't want to do chores around the house? Fine. Stay out all night doing drugs? No problem. Disrespect adults including your parents? Go for it.

    Man alive, you guys sure didn't apply that UC love trait to Trump! At any rate, unconditional acceptance is not how God operates. It's a bad idea for us as well.

    Plainly there are limits to those two.
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    Wondergirl Posts: 37,986, Reputation: 5430
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    #149

    Jan 22, 2021, 01:10 PM
    You must be a terrific dancer, the way you twist and shout.

    Many a child has become a poor quality adult because of parents who did that very thing. Don't want to study? Fine. Don't want to do chores around the house? Fine. Stay out all night doing drugs? No problem. Disrespect adults including your parents? Go for it.

    That's not what loving another person unconditionally means, and you know it!

    Man alive, you guys sure didn't apply that UC love trait to Trump! At any rate, unconditional acceptance is not how God operates. It's a bad idea for us as well.

    If only I had been a Trump aide in the WH....
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    jlisenbe Posts: 3,431, Reputation: 155
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    #150

    Jan 22, 2021, 01:14 PM
    Well, we are back to nonsensical replies. Disappointing but certainly not surprising.
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    Wondergirl Posts: 37,986, Reputation: 5430
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    #151

    Jan 22, 2021, 01:24 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Well, we are back to nonsensical replies. Disappointing but certainly not surprising.
    Don't make me start loving you unconditionally!!!
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 566, Reputation: 55
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    #152

    Jan 22, 2021, 06:13 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Curlyben View Post
    Exactly.
    This is what I'm talking about, rather than addressing the entirety of the response you focus on one, or two, small elements.
    This isn't conducive to an open discussion and just serves to get people's backs up.
    Perfect analysis. WG has accurately called it cherry-picking.

    If all you want to do is be objectionable, then you are firmly on that path.
    That is the defining feeding behavior of a troll.

    Please post like the articulatable adult that you are rather than some spoilt child that has been found with their hand in the cookie jar.
    Not a chance of that happening. But good of you to suggest it.
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    jlisenbe Posts: 3,431, Reputation: 155
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    #153

    Jan 22, 2021, 07:58 PM
    That's not what loving another person unconditionally means, and you know it!
    Just asking a question. Calm down. I was simply probing your view of two aspects of UCL. "You are open to living their way of life." "Accept them for who they are, faults and all."

    This is what I'm talking about, rather than addressing the entirety of the response you focus on one, or two, small elements. This isn't conducive to an open discussion and just serves to get people's backs up.
    I am questioning details. That's how discussions proceed. If you don't like it, then find something else to do. You are most welcome to participate, but do bear in mind that you were not invited.

    Please post like the articulatable adult that you are rather than some spoilt child that has been found with their hand in the cookie jar.
    Thank you for giving a great example of those "volatile" responses you claim to dislike. And you think your response is in any way, "conducive to an open discussion"??? You might want to try out your own advice before giving it to others.
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    Wondergirl Posts: 37,986, Reputation: 5430
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    #154

    Jan 22, 2021, 08:58 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Just asking a question. Calm down. I was simply probing your view of two aspects of UCL. "You are open to living their way of life." "Accept them for who they are, faults and all."
    Yeah, be open to living their way of life in a musty pup tent in Utah two weeks out of the year instead of staying in a decent motel with a real bathroom. And yeah, accept them even though they prefer rum raisin ice cream and refuse to try butter pecan, my favorite.
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    jlisenbe Posts: 3,431, Reputation: 155
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    #155

    Jan 22, 2021, 09:12 PM
    I couldn't disagree with any of that.
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    Curlyben Posts: 18,485, Reputation: 1859
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    #156

    Jan 23, 2021, 02:34 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    I am questioning details. That's how discussions proceed. If you don't like it, then find something else to do. You are most welcome to participate, but do bear in mind that you were not invited.

    Thank you for giving a great example of those "volatile" responses you claim to dislike. And you think your response is in any way, "conducive to an open discussion"??? You might want to try out your own advice before giving it to others.
    Sir, you forget yourself.
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    Curlyben Posts: 18,485, Reputation: 1859
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    #157

    Jan 23, 2021, 04:38 AM
    A thought provoking read:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55773123
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    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 342
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    #158

    Jan 23, 2021, 06:42 AM
    Last I heard is that Trump is contemplating forming a 3rd Party ;the Patriot Party . If he does I expect the same results as when Teddy Roosevelts led the Progressives out of the Republican party . The spit led to the election of the Democrat radical Woodrow Wilson.

    All the legal pile ons and impeachments reminds of the death of the Trojan champion ,Prince Hector at the hands of Achilles . The Greek soldiers were terrified of Hector .He had killed many Greeks and one of their champions . Achilles defeated Hector . The Greeks still wanted their revenge after his death . Achilles troops surrounded the corps stabbing at it repeatedly and Achilles ties Hector to his chariot and drags his lifeless body around Troy .

    I would caution the Dems about over playing their hand .The Cadaver Synod is an example of how that could back fire Pope Steven VI exhumed the corps of Pope Formosus ,and put it on trial 7 months after he had died. Well he was convicted and stripped of his papacy and thrown into a river . The trial turned public opinion against Steven ;especially after Formosus' body washed up and was purported to perform miracles . There was an uprising against Steven . He was strangled in prison.

    Trump and Trumpism could come back in 4 or 8 years stronger than ever .


    So maybe the Dems had best think twice about continuing to pile on the defeated Trump.
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    jlisenbe Posts: 3,431, Reputation: 155
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    #159

    Jan 23, 2021, 06:53 AM
    I don't think the dems can pursue impeachment with a vigor clearly born of hatred, but then turn around and make calls for unity. If they really want unity, they should take their victory, tainted as it is, and move on. It makes me conclude that unity for them means everyone agreeing with their views. That could very well prove to be dangerous for both them and the country.

    And already the new president's bias is showing. After all the dems nearly went crazy over the incident on 1/6, the riots in Oregon go unmentioned by any of them.
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    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 342
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    #160

    Jan 23, 2021, 07:22 AM
    Those attacks in Seattle and Portland are not part of the Uncivil war Quid wants to end.

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