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    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 342
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    #1

    Nov 21, 2020, 07:35 AM
    Teachers Unions
    We need new names for them that reflect their decisions to ruin the lives of children by forcing cities to shut down schools when everyday precautions that everyone else in the country is told to do to prevent covid infection could and should be exercised ;and for their support for systemic racist policies that deny children's parents education choice. Maybe Antikid ? The UFT is proving it'sef to be the enemy of NYC parents .They have put their narrow ­interests over the best interests of children.They are holding NYC to ridiculously narrow standards . Now Quid's lead candidate for Sec Education is AFT Pres Randi Weingarten . She is a disaster .
    Curlyben's Avatar
    Curlyben Posts: 18,488, Reputation: 1859
    BossMan
     
    #2

    Nov 21, 2020, 08:52 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    We need new names for them that reflect their decisions to ruin the lives of children by forcing cities to shut down schools when everyday precautions that everyone else in the country is told to do to prevent covid infection could and should be exercised
    The infection and death numbers tell a wholly different story on the Covid control front. The pandemic is running rampant through your country due to systemic ineptitude, economy and "freedom" over public health... While other countries are seeing peaks and troughs, America has a high plateau with very little let up in sight.
    So, with Thanksgiving next week, be prepared for those numbers to increase dramatically...
    There is no Greater Good, just Me, Me, me, it's about time personal responsibility kicked in...
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,639, Reputation: 155
    Well & Pump Expert
     
    #3

    Nov 21, 2020, 09:25 AM
    While other countries are seeing peaks and troughs, America has a high plateau with very little let up in sight.
    As has been shown here many times, many leading European countries such as France, Germany, and the U.K. are experiencing spikes right now, and they are some of the leaders in centralized control and planning, so I see no point in following their lead.

    As to Tom's post, it is accurate. Covid is clearly not a great threat to those under 55, and that would include all students and nearly all teachers. Not to suggest we should become casual about it at all, but we can't just throw away a year of school over this.

    If Randi Weingarten is appointed, then we will soon be seeing mandated schools sessions telling children that homosexual lifestyles of all kinds are perfectly acceptable, and helping first graders make the decision to have a sex change operation.
    Curlyben's Avatar
    Curlyben Posts: 18,488, Reputation: 1859
    BossMan
     
    #4

    Nov 21, 2020, 09:33 AM
    Time for some cold hard numbers...
    Difficult I know.

    The mortality rate is, to be really conservative, 1%.
    Population of America is 330 million (rounded)
    So that would give a death rate due to this pandemic of 3.3 MILLION !!!

    While the USA is currently way under that number, it's not due to careful management or virus control.
    The distributed nature of the population has played a huge hand in this, have a closer look at the population centers and how hard they have been hit.
    Your "health service" is buckling under the pressure caring for Covid cases.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,639, Reputation: 155
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    #5

    Nov 21, 2020, 10:02 AM
    The mortality rate is, to be really conservative, 1%.
    Population of America is 330 million (rounded)
    So that would give a death rate due to this pandemic of 3.3 MILLION !!!

    While the USA is currently way under that number, it's not due to careful management or virus control.
    The distributed nature of the population has played a huge hand in this, have a closer look at the population centers and how hard they have been hit.
    Your "health service" is buckling under the pressure caring for Covid cases.
    So our death number should, in your view, be around 3 mil, and yet is less than 1/10 of that, but we can't credit our "management or virus control" since it's due to our "distributed...population"? So you are saying that states like South Dakota, Wyoming, and Montana should be doing very well? I would suggest you look at those states for yourself. They are struggling like everyone else. Our management and control, all things considered, has been about as good as could be expected. Not nearly as rigid as the three European countries I mentioned, but they are spiking as well, so it just seems to be true that this virus is highly contagious and there is not much to be done to stop it. It can be slowed down some, but not stopped until we get to a vaccine which should, by all that's right, be named the Donald J. Trump vaccine.

    Sweden did very little in the way of control, and they are doing better than many other countries, so it is just a hard illness to predict. Most of the criticism here has just been a manifestation of "We hate Donald Trump."
    Curlyben's Avatar
    Curlyben Posts: 18,488, Reputation: 1859
    BossMan
     
    #6

    Nov 21, 2020, 10:06 AM
    You are doing a tremendous job at virus control, a model for the rest of the world.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,639, Reputation: 155
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    #7

    Nov 21, 2020, 10:31 AM
    Well, your own statement was that we should have expected 3.3 million deaths, but instead we have less than 1/10 of that, so either your statement was ridiculous, or we are doing fantastically better than we should have expected. Take your pick.
    Curlyben's Avatar
    Curlyben Posts: 18,488, Reputation: 1859
    BossMan
     
    #8

    Nov 21, 2020, 11:27 AM
    Clearly the irony is lost...
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,639, Reputation: 155
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    #9

    Nov 21, 2020, 11:31 AM
    Clearly you have no answer.
    Curlyben's Avatar
    Curlyben Posts: 18,488, Reputation: 1859
    BossMan
     
    #10

    Nov 21, 2020, 11:36 AM
    I do, however, I'm keeping my own counsel.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,639, Reputation: 155
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    #11

    Nov 21, 2020, 11:40 AM
    I do, however, I'm keeping my own counsel.
    Like I said. You have no answers. Are you related to the lady on this board? You two are very similar.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,258, Reputation: 5430
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #12

    Nov 21, 2020, 11:45 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Like I said. You have no answers. Are you related to the lady on this board? You two are very similar.
    And our common factor on this board is....
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,639, Reputation: 155
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    #13

    Nov 21, 2020, 11:45 AM
    Evasiveness. Total evasiveness.
    Curlyben's Avatar
    Curlyben Posts: 18,488, Reputation: 1859
    BossMan
     
    #14

    Nov 21, 2020, 11:55 AM
    I have no wish to enter into a destructive circular argument.
    Oddly enough, I have the ability to look beyond the mutterances of our "leaders" and have a wider outlook.
    I'm not a blind follower more an open minded scholar.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,639, Reputation: 155
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    #15

    Nov 21, 2020, 12:02 PM
    Like I said, you have no answers. One thing above all else that gets my goat on this board is for someone to make a statement and when confronted with evidence that contradicts it, they just withdraw into a shell and make silly statements about circular arguments, utterances, and outlooks. You're a scholar? Sure you are.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 342
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    #16

    Nov 21, 2020, 01:58 PM
    here are the American Academy of Pediatric numbers . As of November 12th, over 1 million children have tested positive for COVID-19 since the onset of the pandemic. The age distribution of reported COVID-19 cases was provided on the health department websites of 49 states, New York City, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, and Guam. Children represented 11.5% of all cases in states reporting cases by age.A smaller subset of states reported on hospitalizations and mortality by age; the available data indicated that COVID-19-associated hospitalization and death is uncommon in children. Children were 0.00%-0.21% of all COVID-19 deaths, and 16 states reported zero child deaths and the ones who did die had preexisting conditions .

    So the issues the teaches have is their own risks . I submit that when they compare to millions of other workers who are deemed essential ;and who report to work every day and live with the guidelines for a safe working environment . The only thing I can think is that they the teachers unions assume their rank and file is a selfish lot .
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,258, Reputation: 5430
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    #17

    Nov 21, 2020, 02:09 PM
    And those children pass the coronavirus on to not only the teachers but also to family members, relatives, and neighbors. Plus, we still don't know the negative long-term effects those children will experience in the future.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 342
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    #18

    Nov 21, 2020, 02:16 PM
    Hello NYC parents want their children in school. That means the only issue is the teachers .


    Plus, we still don't know the negative long-term effects those children will experience in the future.
    But we do have a pretty good idea of the negative impacts with children losing more than a year of schooling .
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 38,258, Reputation: 5430
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    #19

    Nov 21, 2020, 02:45 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Hello NYC parents want their children in school. That means the only issue is the teachers .
    Jimmy's grandma was in good health and lively until she caught her grandson's coronavirus. After coughing endlessly and trying to breathe, she died a week later. At the family's Thanksgiving get-together, Jimmy passed the virus to a couple of aunts and cousins. Three weeks later Jimmy's dad died of the virus.
    But we do have a pretty good idea of the negative impacts with children losing more than a year of schooling .
    There's no timetable for education and learning. The math and grammar and science will still be there to learn. What the students are missing the most is the social interaction.
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 658, Reputation: 55
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    #20

    Nov 21, 2020, 03:11 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    There's no timetable for education and learning. The math and grammar and science will still be there to learn. What the students are missing the most is the social interaction.
    That is an excellent point.

    What hasn't been discussed is the dilemma of working parents. A single-parent family who is responsible for housing and putting food on the table, or even a two-parent family who both work need assistance. One parent may or may not be able to stay at home with a young child.

    Another stimulus payment would go a long way to help such families survive. With vaccines on the horizon, the payments would not be "forever", but manageable if the Mitch McConnell crowd can see their way to help those who need help.

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