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    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,281, Reputation: 10853
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    #61

    Sep 27, 2020, 04:23 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    I think you are living in a fantasy world. A "narrow focus of behaviors"??? Well, in the black community, if you solve the twin problems of inferior schools and the dissolution of the family unit, then you solve the great majority of problems black Americans face. But that would take courage and self discipline, and those two qualities are not popular. So I guess, in your world, that amounts to a "narrow focus". In my world, it amounts to an opportunity to make great progress. But it's easier to continue what amounts to racism by focusing on what white cops do to black individuals who are generally resisting arrest.

    And yes, those problems afflict our culture as a whole, but we are not discussing the entire culture, are we?
    I see it as a purely economic equation. The money just doesn't trickle down sufficiently enough to enough of the population. The social safety net is a joke and hasn't been sufficiently bolstered so of course during these economic downturns and disruptions who bears the brunt of them? Do you really think those who barely have resources during good times just bounce back quickly after the economy recovers? Think about that for a minute.

    How do inner city schools get sufficiently funded when property taxes are insufficient because the people are renters and not homeowners? Multiply that by generations and see what you got. Then there is the elephant in the room you always ignore, poor people don't make or control economic policy and never have nor do they destroy economies and never will. Discipline and strong family units didn't save those ghost towns in the Midwest or anywhere else when jobs went overseas, so lets get off this advice for just for black people JL, until you listen to them because if they didn't have discipline and strong family units as you say, they would not be surviving the economic social crap that does trickle down.

    You want to solve problems step back and see who makes the rules for facilitating those problems and you'll see very quickly why Breonna Taylor should be alive today and many others. It's the policy of those that makes the rules that caused her death, and the tactics they use that you seem just fine with. You aren't listening because you're to busy dictating.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,351, Reputation: 154
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    #62

    Sep 27, 2020, 05:26 AM
    Yeah. It's a lot easier to blame it on tax-base issues and so called "trickle down" economics. Couldn't possibly have anything to do with a nearly 75% out of wedlock birth rate and the subsequent absence of fathers. How do you explain the fact that two-parent, well educated black families are doing just fine? It sure seems to have "trickled down" to them pretty well. How do you explain that?

    All those Midwest "ghost towns" you love to refer to, guess who runs them? If you guessed "democrats", you go to the front of the line. And an intact, two-parent family survives problems like that in much better shape than otherwise. "Economic social crap"??? You mean historic low unemployment figures and rapid growth in manufacturing jobs?

    When a person is not willing to face the truth, then they develop a replacement fantasy world.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 172
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    #63

    Sep 27, 2020, 06:25 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post


    When a person is not willing to face the truth, then they develop a replacement fantasy world.
    And you think that a dose of reality in allowing millions more to be born will solve the problem, ultimately you are staring collective sterilisation in the face. Jl you too live in a fantasy world, effective contraceptives have been available for decades and still babies are born or abortions happen and to leave the abortion debate and talk about poverty, less spent on the military and more on welfare might solve some of the problems but the wealthy would have to give up their cherished tax cuts because they too live in a fantasy world
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,281, Reputation: 10853
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    #64

    Sep 27, 2020, 06:30 AM
    Why do you ignore the economics and focus so much on the promotion of the institution that has such a high failure rate. Both have devastating impacts on the social structure so let's deal with both. The subject of this conversation was the needless death of a citizen at the hands of the cops which has nothing to do with either our assertions.

    Quote Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    And you think that a dose of reality in allowing millions more to be born will solve the problem, ultimately you are staring collective sterilisation in the face. Jl you too live in a fantasy world, effective contraceptives have been available for decades and still babies are born or abortions happen and to leave the abortion debate and talk about poverty, less spent on the military and more on welfare might solve some of the problems but the wealthy would have to give up their cherished tax cuts because they too live in a fantasy world
    The poverty is the issue.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,351, Reputation: 154
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    #65

    Sep 27, 2020, 11:29 AM
    Jl you too live in a fantasy world, effective contraceptives have been available for decades and still babies are born or abortions happen and to leave the abortion debate and talk about poverty, less spent on the military and more on welfare might solve some of the problems but the wealthy would have to give up their cherished tax cuts because they too live in a fantasy world.
    I have long advocated for less spending on military. We would have to tell nations like Australia to be prepared to pony up a similar amount per person to what we spend so they can count on us less, but I'm all for it. Now if you want to talk about fantasy worlds, to imagine that we can balance our budget with the current spending levels, even if we dramatically increase taxes, is pure fantasy. It tells me you have no knowledge at all of the numbers.

    What would solve the problem, take care of much of the poverty problem, and improve educational results dramatically would be a return to the two parent family. It is a simple, simple solution that is resisted because it requires discipline and self-denial.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,926, Reputation: 5430
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    #66

    Sep 27, 2020, 11:57 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post

    What would solve the problem, take care of much of the poverty problem, and improve educational results dramatically would be a return to the two parent family. It is a simple, simple solution that is resisted because it requires discipline and self-denial.
    And those two parents don't have to be gender binary.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 172
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    #67

    Sep 27, 2020, 02:26 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    I have long advocated for less spending on military. We would have to tell nations like Australia to be prepared to pony up a similar amount per person to what we spend so they can count on us less, but I'm all for it. Now if you want to talk about fantasy worlds, to imagine that we can balance our budget with the current spending levels, even if we dramatically increase taxes, is pure fantasy. It tells me you have no knowledge at all of the numbers.

    What would solve the problem, take care of much of the poverty problem, and improve educational results dramatically would be a return to the two parent family. It is a simple, simple solution that is resisted because it requires discipline and self-denial.
    perhaps we should stop wearing out our aircraft and our ships responding to your phony wars or maybe you could pony up for their replacement
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    jlisenbe Posts: 3,351, Reputation: 154
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    #68

    Sep 27, 2020, 02:35 PM
    Aircraft? Ships? If the day ever comes when we are dependent on your meager resources, then all is lost.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 172
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    #69

    Sep 27, 2020, 04:20 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Aircraft? Ships? If the day ever comes when we are dependent on your meager resources, then all is lost.
    Then you are already lost, why do you think you keep trying to rope us into your phony freedom of navigation exercises, I think it is just to put our ships on the front line and keep yours in reserve, or maybe it is because yours provide too big a target. We can't match you in manpower but we make up for it in other ways. Our SAS spearheaded your invasion of Iraq, I wonder why that was considered necessary? You see you talk a good fight, but you kill more of your own than you do the enemy
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,351, Reputation: 154
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    #70

    Sep 27, 2020, 04:28 PM
    8 frigates and 3 destroyers. Yeah boy, we are sure depending on you guys. Look, I mean no offense, but your country is a minor player from a military perspective. To suggest that we were really depending on your SAS is just laughable.

    You can't match us in manpower? You think? 60,000 to 1.4 million, so yeah, I'd agree that you can't match us in manpower.

    You see you talk a good fight, but you kill more of your own than you do the enemy
    Completely ridiculous comment. You plainly don't know what you're talking about. But again, your kind of attitude is why I want to see us reduce our overseas obligations and think more of just taking care of ourselves and and those who actually appreciate what is done for them like Israel.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 172
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    #71

    Sep 27, 2020, 05:37 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    8 frigates and 3 destroyers. Yeah boy, we are sure depending on you guys. Look, I mean no offense, but your country is a minor player from a military perspective. To suggest that we were really depending on your SAS is just laughable.

    You can't match us in manpower? You think? 60,000 to 1.4 million, so yeah, I'd agree that you can't match us in manpower.

    Completely ridiculous comment. You plainly don't know what you're talking about. But again, your kind of attitude is why I want to see us reduce our overseas obligations and think more of just taking care of ourselves and and those who actually appreciate what is done for them like Israel.
    Yes Israel appreciates you, but they don't fight beside you. We don't need a standing military of 1.4 million, we don't go around the world confronting other nations. What overseas obligations do you really have, how much restoration have you done for the countries you have devastated lately? What have you done for us in the last fifty years, laid waste to our industries while you promoted China, how is that going for you? I suppose you think we should have adopted the nuclear option like the other contestants in WWII, well we are not MAD
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,351, Reputation: 154
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    #72

    Sep 27, 2020, 07:36 PM
    What overseas obligations do you really have
    Exactly!! I'd like to see us shrink our military and tell nations like Australia to pony up and learn to defend themselves without our help. Perhaps we have finally agreed.
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 530, Reputation: 55
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    #73

    Sep 27, 2020, 07:44 PM
    Australia has been a good friend and ally during several wars. Aussie blood has been shed next to GI blood on the battlefields. Not everything is about money.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 172
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    #74

    Sep 27, 2020, 10:06 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Athos View Post
    Australia has been a good friend and ally during several wars. Aussie blood has been shed next to GI blood on the battlefields. Not everything is about money.
    Thanks athos, at least some recognise we have been a good friend to america, but, when your god is money, everything is about money. We certainly spend enough of our revenue on the military and you know it doesn't buy much these days when you buy american

    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Exactly!! I'd like to see us shrink our military and tell nations like Australia to pony up and learn to defend themselves without our help. Perhaps we have finally agreed.
    Yes put america first you have not stopped doing that. MAGA what a great slogan, how much more do you have to spend to MAGA?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,351, Reputation: 154
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    #75

    Sep 28, 2020, 04:00 AM
    Australia has been a good friend and ally during several wars. Aussie blood has been shed next to GI blood on the battlefields. Not everything is about money.
    They have been a good ally. Australia is a sovereign nation with a rich history and full of capable people, and I certainly don't think we have any business trying to tell them what to do. However, the reverse is also true. I'm tired of going broke trying to defend nations that don't spend an amount of money on their own defense comparable to what we are spending, and who, in many cases, have no appreciation for what is being done or has been done. They are the kind of ally that we have too many of. They want us to maintain a super-large military that we cannot afford so they can do less than they should be doing. I appreciate good allies. I don't appreciate the kind of arrogance that accepts our help and then wants to engage in an endless crusade of criticism.

    MAGA is a great slogan. A lot of people were glad to hear it, and happy to find out that the years of the Obama campaign of "Apologize for America" had come to a very welcome end.

    "Not everything is about money." That is certainly true, but it applies to Australia as well as us. When a country is sinking deeper and deeper in ruinous debt, that country better wake up and start using some sense.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,351, Reputation: 154
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    #76

    Sep 28, 2020, 04:38 AM
    In the meantime, murders are up 50% this year in democrat run Chicago. This weekend a mother stabbed her own 5 year old daughter to death. Evidently none of the murders could be blamed on white privilege or President Trump, so they will sadly get but little news coverage. BLM has shown no interest whatsoever. How unsurprising is that?
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 172
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    #77

    Sep 28, 2020, 06:49 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    They have been a good ally. Australia is a sovereign nation with a rich history and full of capable people, and I certainly don't think we have any business trying to tell them what to do. However, the reverse is also true. I'm tired of going broke trying to defend nations that don't spend an amount of money on their own defense comparable to what we are spending, and who, in many cases, have no appreciation for what is being done or has been done. They are the kind of ally that we have too many of. They want us to maintain a super-large military that we cannot afford so they can do less than they should be doing. I appreciate good allies. I don't appreciate the kind of arrogance that accepts our help and then wants to engage in an endless crusade of criticism.

    MAGA is a great slogan. A lot of people were glad to hear it, and happy to find out that the years of the Obama campaign of "Apologize for America" had come to a very welcome end.

    "Not everything is about money." That is certainly true, but it applies to Australia as well as us. When a country is sinking deeper and deeper in ruinous debt, that country better wake up and start using some sense.
    What you fail to realise is your level of military expenditure is unnecessary and is fueling an arms race, why do you need more aircraft carriers than the rest of the world combined? thousands of planes and tanks? you think we should all do what you do, we should all share in your madness. If we followed your advice we would all nuclear armed pointing ICBM at each other.

    As to our debt level, look to your own before you worry about ours
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,351, Reputation: 154
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    #78

    Sep 28, 2020, 07:03 AM
    Well again, we are in agreement. I would cut way back and tell nations like yours that we will no longer be the world'd security agreement. Prepare to carry your own load.

    As to debt, I was referring to our debt, not yours.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,281, Reputation: 10853
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    #79

    Sep 28, 2020, 10:40 AM
    Hope we never have to ask the Aussies to join us in another military endeavor, they may remember such ungrateful, disrespectful, treatment. When we were attacked on 9/11 everybody pitched in to help, maybe not with money, but intelligence through their own networks to find Bin Laden. They didn't hesitate or cut deals either.

    Now we publicly beetch about other countries over a few bucks which just shows how small and petty we are so the dufus can look tough for you right wingers. Yeah I guess it's okay to bully our allies and ask our foes for help getting re elected as the dufus downplays the cyber war like he downplays the virus.

    Two more weeks and I get to cast my vote against the lying cheating dufus and his loony right wing agenda so he can face prosecution for his crimes. Can't come fast enough.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,351, Reputation: 154
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    #80

    Sep 28, 2020, 10:57 AM
    Did you have your coffee this morning? "A few bucks"? "Ungrateful, disrespectful treatment"? Only a liberal would think that asking other countries to undertake to maintain their own defense was in any way disrespectful. One thing I know for sure. If we ever threaten to raise your taxes in order to maintain this enormous military, you will immediately become much more conservative in your political outlook.

    Yeah I guess it's okay to bully our allies and ask our foes for help getting re elected as the dufus downplays the cyber war like he downplays the virus.
    You're back in your fantasy world again. What a pleasant place that must be for you!!

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