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    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,705, Reputation: 172
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    #1

    May 30, 2020, 05:14 PM
    The manefestation of a bigger problem
    https://www.news.com.au/world/north-...2fb1e417f65f1d

    In many cities in the US there is chaos and mayhem blamed on police brutality, but it is a sign of a bigger problem. Draconian laws targetting the minority, the continued oppression of coloured and poor people and a system that relies on violence instead of goodwill and a frustration of a society ordered to shutdown
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #2

    May 30, 2020, 07:51 PM
    I think you are partially right, but the number of incidents where the police are guilty of violence against a person of color is pretty low. The real problems lie elsewhere. The crime rate of young black men is very high. The out of wedlock birth rate is VERY high in the black community. Young minority kids are frequently stuck in sub-par schools and get a sub-par education. There is a welfare mentality in much of the country that works against people. But racist policemen seem to be few and far between. Even in the case of George Floyd, it is not definite that the policeman targeted him because he was black. His treatment of Floyd was terrible for sure and he certainly should be prosecuted, but he might have done the same if Floyd had been white.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,705, Reputation: 172
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    #3

    May 30, 2020, 09:52 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    I think you are partially right, but the number of incidents where the police are guilty of violence against a person of color is pretty low. The real problems lie elsewhere. The crime rate of young black men is very high. The out of wedlock birth rate is VERY high in the black community. Young minority kids are frequently stuck in sub-par schools and get a sub-par education. There is a welfare mentality in much of the country that works against people. But racist policemen seem to be few and far between. Even in the case of George Floyd, it is not definite that the policeman targeted him because he was black. His treatment of Floyd was terrible for sure and he certainly should be prosecuted, but he might have done the same if Floyd had been white.
    As I said manifestation of a bigger problem. perhaps racist behaviour is at the root of this but so is reverse racist behaviour. If white society is racist so is coloured society but disadvantage is endemic. For two months people have been penned up and natural release behaviours have been denied, so they give vent to their anger and voice to the violence that once again rares its ugly head. perhaps it is time to root out the fanatics in the police force, those who fail to recognise that recourse to violence isn't a first response. remove the god mentality from the police force and give a mandatory death sentence to anyone who kills whether in the name of the law or not
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    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #4

    May 31, 2020, 03:02 AM
    I expected this sooner . I would say for the most part the protests have been peaceful The real problem is the outside agitation by anarchists . We all agree on George Floyd, which is why a bad cop is now under arrest. Anyone who defends looting and rioting and targeting of business owners and cops on this basis is nothing short of evil.

    https://twitter.com/jackposobiec/sta..._R4BRCWOorLC2M

    https://twitter.com/stillgray/status...24900427132928

    https://twitter.com/TKQ1777/status/1266941688972378113
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,247, Reputation: 10853
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    #5

    May 31, 2020, 04:52 AM
    How long has this been going on? How many of these triggering incidents have we had just this spring? Easy to ignore the alarm clock when you don't want to hear it. Just keep hitting snooze!
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,705, Reputation: 172
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    #6

    May 31, 2020, 08:02 PM
    Take a look at HK as a guide to how long it might go on. Violence went on for months and has started up again, different issues but obviously, people have had enough and are going to keep it up until change happens. So over to the legislature to change the laws and give more weight to anti-violence on behalf of police forces and less draconian responses to demonstrations
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #7

    Jun 1, 2020, 12:31 AM
    How many of these triggering incidents have we had just this spring?
    Four? And in the meantime, over 150 black Americans are murdered EVERY WEEK, about 90% of them by other black individuals. But that gets no traction because, after all, who gives a rats rear end about an innocent person who was merely murdered by a non-white? Hundreds of thousands of inner city minority kids are stuck in pathetic schools, but no one cares because you can't blame that on a cop. The equation is very simple. Let's get all wound up over what OTHER people should do to fix the problems of black America. It would be too demanding to expect black America to do their own fixing. That's not too surprising. It's human nature to always want to blame my problems on someone else, but it's a fool's errand
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,247, Reputation: 10853
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    #8

    Jun 1, 2020, 05:02 AM
    Vigilantes stalking and killing a guy they think is a criminal and it gets swept under the rug for months? Who made that decision. Cops with the wrong house killing a resident? Whose problem is that? Knee to the neck until death and 3 cops just watch? Whose problem is that? If you can't get the obvious stuff right then not much progress can be made on the whole problem, which is segregation and discrimination, suppression, oppression, and plain old racism.

    The issue before us now is the culture of our cops that condone murder of it's citizens, and unrestrained vigilantes empowered to intervene where ever they please. Not saying there are not other issues to be addressed, long term inequities to be balanced, like poverty, but for now we want justice for an obvious failure to protect and serve.

    You should listen to that. You shouldn't dismiss what every body has been saying.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #9

    Jun 1, 2020, 05:24 AM
    The issue before us now is the culture of our cops that condone murder of it's citizens,
    It's a fake issue. An isolated occurence does not amount to "the culture of our cops". If you want the situation of poverty to improve, then you can forget about the "cops that condone murder" narrative. It is a minor, minor contributor to the problem. If anyone really wants to get serious about poverty in the black community, then the real problems have to be addressed. The rest is just window dressing. Not saying it does not bring a lot of emotional pain. I'm sure it does, but it certainly is not a major contributor to poverty. The very sad truth is that the glorious day arrived long ago when social prejudice against black people had been diminished to the point that it could no longer hold back black people as a whole. They have become the masters of their own destinies, and yet there are very real problems which no one wants to talk about or deal with that are now, by far, the chief offenders.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,247, Reputation: 10853
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    #10

    Jun 1, 2020, 05:34 AM
    It's a fake issue. An isolated occurence does not amount to "the culture of our cops".
    I beg to differ, as this is a recurring problem and there is a verifiable history to back that up.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #11

    Jun 1, 2020, 06:25 AM
    OK. Tell us about that history. How many cases of a black person being unjustifiably killed by a cop have happened this year? List them, please. And if you think that is a recurring problem, then how can you be silent about the fact that for every black person murdered by a policeman, there are hundreds and hundreds of black people killed by other black people. Doesn't that qualify much, much more as a recurring problem?
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,247, Reputation: 10853
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    #12

    Jun 1, 2020, 09:24 AM
    You have TWO separate issues. Cops killing unarmed or non threatening citizens, matter of public record, and black on black crime, which is a local issue. Poverty breeds crime in some places, black or white. Are the root causes the same? I'll let you verify or gather what you need to form your own conclusions.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #13

    Jun 1, 2020, 11:43 AM
    Cops killing unarmed or non threatening citizens,
    Very few in number.

    black on black crime, which is a local issue.
    Deaths by the thousands.

    Funny how the first one gets all the attention.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,247, Reputation: 10853
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    #14

    Jun 1, 2020, 01:18 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Very few in number.

    Deaths by the thousands.

    Funny how the first one gets all the attention.
    Is that the way you see it? Why? I see it in the contexts that cops should never murder abuse, or terrorize the citizen, without accountability. Just like any citizen that murders, terrorizes or abuses another citizen. Cops shouldn't be above the law. What? Their crimes should be swept under the rug and they should remain free? That's not my idea of serve and protect.

    Bad enough criminals exist. We don't need criminal cops too.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #15

    Jun 1, 2020, 02:01 PM
    Their crimes should be swept under the rug and they should remain free? That's not my idea of serve and protect.
    No one has suggested that. Certainly I have not.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,247, Reputation: 10853
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    #16

    Jun 1, 2020, 02:44 PM
    The dufus ain't happy with the protest.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...?ocid=msedgntp

    And

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/in...?ocid=msedgntp
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #17

    Jun 1, 2020, 03:56 PM
    I don't think anyone is happy with the protests, also known as riots, or at least in some cases.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,247, Reputation: 10853
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    #18

    Jun 1, 2020, 04:23 PM
    I'm for peaceful protests, not for riots, looting, burnings, or any acts of violence. I think there is a huge distinction between protests and riots, but realize one can turn to the other really fast.
    Athos's Avatar
    Athos Posts: 511, Reputation: 55
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    #19

    Jun 1, 2020, 05:00 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    I'm for peaceful protests, not for riots, looting, burnings, or any acts of violence. I think there is a huge distinction between protests and riots, but realize one can turn to the other really fast.
    Especially when the idiot in the White House encourages rioting by threatening the country with an armed military. The nutcase thinks he's in a movie as he struts around the historic church looking for a photo op. The bible he was holding is hilarious. I'm surprised it didn't burn his hand.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #20

    Jun 1, 2020, 05:51 PM
    I'm for peaceful protests, not for riots, looting, burnings, or any acts of violence.
    I figured that to be the case.

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