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    Wondergirl Posts: 37,910, Reputation: 5430
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    #101

    May 29, 2020, 08:57 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    What did they do? Japan is not sheltering in place nor have they closed down their economy, so what did they do that was so effective that we somehow missed?
    From Wikipedia:
    The Japanese government has adopted various measures to prevent and mitigate the outbreak. On 30 January (Trump held a campaign rally), Prime Minister Shinzo Abe established a national task force to oversee the government's response to the pandemic.[7] On 27 February (Trump hailed his administration’s handling of the coronavirus saying “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.”) Shinzo Abe requested the temporary closure of all Japanese elementary, junior high, and high schools until early April.[8] As the pandemic became a concern for the 2020 Summer Olympics, the Japanese government and the International Olympic Committee negotiated its postponement until 2021.[9] On 7 April, Abe proclaimed a one-month state of emergency for Tokyo and the prefectures of Kanagawa, Saitama, Chiba, Osaka, Hyogo, and Fukuoka.[10] On 16 April, the declaration was extended to the rest of the country for an indefinite period.[11]
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,247, Reputation: 10853
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    #102

    May 29, 2020, 09:29 AM
    Japan is one of those countries that wear face masks for colds and allergies and have for years.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-...demic_in_Japan
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    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #103

    May 29, 2020, 09:39 AM
    They closed schools like we did. They declared a state of emergency and put together a council. Fine and dandy. They did not, for most of the country, shelter in place. They did not shut down much of their economy. So my question remains, what did they do that seemed to be effective? They have had 882 deaths which is really a dramatic difference. They are stacked on top of each other, moreso by far than we are. What made the difference?

    On 30 January (Trump held a campaign rally), Prime Minister Shinzo Abe established a national task force to oversee the government's response to the pandemic.
    You are aware that Trump established our task force on the 29th of January, so one day earlier than Abe did? So you'll give him an "atta-boy" for that, I'm sure?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_...rus_Task_Force
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    #104

    May 29, 2020, 11:09 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    They closed schools like we did. They declared a state of emergency and put together a council. Fine and dandy. They did not, for most of the country, shelter in place. They did not shut down much of their economy. So my question remains, what did they do that seemed to be effective? They have had 882 deaths which is really a dramatic difference. They are stacked on top of each other, moreso by far than we are. What made the difference?
    Face masks are not unknown in that country. Touching (handshakes, hugging, kissing, etc.) is not done; instead bowing to each other is the rule. The Japanese I've known are superclean and scrupulous about hygiene.

    From Wikipedia:
    By February 25, they established contact tracing and determined the high-risk environments include 1) closed spaces with poor ventilation; (2) crowded places with many people nearby; and (3) close-contact settings such as close-range conversations.[196]

    To reduce person-to-person contact, the government has instructed the public to refrain from going to high-risk environments (the Three Cs: closed spaces, crowded places, and close-contact settings) and events involving movement between different areas of the country.[197] It emphasized extreme caution when coming in contact with the elderly. The government also promoted such work-style reforms as teleworking and staggering commuting hours, while improving the country's distance learning infrastructure for children.
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    #105

    May 29, 2020, 11:16 AM
    You might have missed this from me. "You are aware that Trump established our task force on the 29th of January, so one day earlier than Abe did? So you'll give him an "atta-boy" for that, I'm sure?"

    I wonder if the democratic mayor of New York City and the democratic governor of New York state did those things by 2/25?
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    #106

    May 29, 2020, 11:42 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    You might have missed this from me. "You are aware that Trump established our task force on the 29th of January, so one day earlier than Abe did? So you'll give him an "atta-boy" for that, I'm sure?"

    I wonder if the democratic mayor of New York City and the democratic governor of New York state did those things by 2/25?
    Trump never followed through; Abe did.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,247, Reputation: 10853
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    #107

    May 29, 2020, 11:56 AM
    We don't have to wonder we can look it up and compare.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-...w_York_(state)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Trump never followed through; Abe did.
    A very crucial point.
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    #108

    May 29, 2020, 12:07 PM
    I wonder if the democratic mayor of New York City and the democratic governor of New York state did those things by 2/25?
    They were telling us to attend Chinese New Year events ;St Patrick Day parades ,ride the subways ,go to restaurants and plays . Mid March Bolshevik Bernie was planning on keeping the schools open until the teachers actually began a mutiny.

    As for the Democrats ? The whole month of January their only concern was trying to convict Trump on the phony impeachments charges the Dems concocted before the new year . The House of Reps only took up the matter of the virus the 1st week of February .
    I'll put the timeline on this posting too:

    January 3 CDC Director Robert Redfield sent an email to the director of the Chinese CDC, George Gao, formally offering to send U.S. experts to China to investigate the coronavirus.
    CDC Director Redfield sent another email to the Chinese CDC Director, George Gao, formally offering to send U.S. experts to China to investigate the coronavirus outbreak,Jan 6 CDC issued a travel notice on Wuhan, China, before any U.S. infection arose.

    Jan 6 CDC issued a travel notice on Wuhan, China, before any U.S. infection arose.

    The CDC established a coronavirus incident management system to better share and respond to information about the virus.


    Jan 17 CDC began enhanced screening for COVID-19 symptoms at three U.S. airports, in San Francisco, Los Angeles and New York's JFK. U.S. infections: Zero.



    Jan 20CDC opened an emergency operations center after one U.S. COVID-19 patient was diagnosed.Dr. Fauci announces the National Institutes of Health is already working on the development of a vaccine for the coronavirus.

    Jan 21 CDC expanded COVID-19 checks to airports in Chicago and Atlanta.CDC activated its emergency operations center to provide ongoing support to the coronavirus response.

    January 21The CDC sought a “special emergency authorization” from the FDA to allow states to use its newly developed coronavirus test.

    Jan 20 Trump tweeted that he made an offer to President Xi Jinping to send experts to China to investigate the coronavirus outbreak.CDC issued a level III travel health notice urging Americans to avoid all nonessential travel to China due to the coronavirus.


    Jan 29 Trump creates the coronavirus task force

    Jan 31One day after the WHO declared COVID-19 a “Public Health Emergency of International Concern,” Trump restricted travel from China. Quid pro Joe this policy “hysterical xenophobia.” CDC began the first mandatory quarantines since the 1960s. Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar declared “a public health emergency in the United States.”

    Feb 2CDC added Honolulu, Seattle and Dulles airports to those already screening travelers from China.

    Feb 4 FDAallowed emergency use of CDC’s COVID-19 test in non-CDC labs. “My administration will take all necessary steps to safeguard our citizens from” COVID-19, Trump said in his State of the Union address.

    Feb 5White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney and Secretary Azar briefed lawmakers on COVID-19. “Several House lawmakers of both parties said the administration has the situation under control,” the Seattle Times reported.







    The House Foreign Affairs Committee held a hearing on “The Wuhan Coronavirus.” This was the first time that either House of Congress addressed this . They were all too preoccupied trying to convict Trump.

    Feb 6CDC began shipping CDC-Developed test kits for the 2019 Coronavirus to U.S. and international labs.


    Feb 9Trump’s Coronavirus Task Force briefed the states' chief executives at the National Governors Association Meeting.

    Feb 11HHS expanded collaboration with Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen Research & Development division to produce a COVID-19 vaccine.

    Feb 12 The U.S. shipped test kits for the 2019 novel coronavirus to approximately 30 countries who lacked the necessary reagents and other materials.

    Feb 14CDC began working with five labs to conduct “community-based influenza surveillance” to study and detect the spread of coronavirus.



    Feb 18
    HHS offered expertise and funds to help Sanofi Pasteur develop a COVID-19 vaccine and treatments.




    Feb 26 Trump assigned VP Mike Pence to lead the administration’s COVID-19 response.

    Feb 24The Trump Administration sent a letter to Congress requesting at least $2.5 billion to help combat the spread of the coronavirus.

    Feb 29FDA let LabCorp, Quest, and other diagnosticians develop COVID-19 tests and liberated states to engage some 2,000 such laboratories. The administration discouraged travel to parts of South Korea and Italy and restricted arrivals from Iran.

    March 3CDC lifted federal restrictions on coronavirus testing to allow any American to be tested for coronavirus, “subject to doctor’s orders.”

    March 4The Trump Administration announced the purchase of approximately 500 million N95 respirators over the next 18 months to respond to the outbreak of the novel coronavirus.Secretary Azar announced that HHS was transferring $35 million to the CDC to help state and local communities that have been impacted most by the coronavirus.



    March 6Trump signed $8.3 billion in COVID-19 response funds approved by both Houses of Congress on March 4 .

    March 10Trump and Pence met with top health insurance companies and secured a commitment to waive co-pays for coronavirus testing.

    March 11 Trump restricts travel from Europe .

    March 13, Trump proclaimed a national emergency, unleashed $42 billion, forgave student-loan interest; deregulated telemedicine, interstate medical practice and the hiring of physicians at hospitals; and persuaded Costco, Walmart and other retailers to launch drive-thru COVID-19 tests. FDA let Roche and Thermo Fisher produce COVID-19 tests.HHS announced funding for the development of two new rapid diagnostic tests, which would be able to detect coronavirus in approximately 1 hour.

    March 15HHS announced it is projected to have 1.9 million COVID-19 tests available in 2,000 labs this week.Google announced a partnership with the Trump Administration to develop a website dedicated to coronavirus education, prevention, & local resources.
    All 50 states were contacted through FEMA to coordinate “federally-supported, state-led efforts” to end coronavirus

    March 16 Trump Announced that the first potential vaccine for coronavirus has entered a phase one trial in a record amount of time. Announced “15 days to slow the spread” coronavirus guidance.The FDA announced it was empowering states to authorize tests developed and used by labs in their states.Asst. Secretary for Health confirmed the availability of 1 million coronavirus tests, and projected 2 million tests available the next week and 5 million the following.

    March 17The Department of Defense announced it will make available to HHS up to five million respirator masks and 2,000 ventilators.

    March 18Trump signed the Families First Coronavirus Response Act, which provides free testing and paid sick leave for workers impacted by the coronavirus.He also temporarily closed the US Canada border to non-essential travel. He also announced that he plansto invoke the Defense Production Act .Also FEMA activated in every region at its highest level of response .The U.S. Navy will deploy USNS Comfort and USNS Mercy hospital ships. All foreclosures and evictions will be suspended for a period of time.HHS temporarily suspended a regulation that prevents doctors from practicing across state lines.

    March 19Pence announced tens of thousands of ventilators have been identified that can be converted to treat patients.The State Department issued a global level 4 health advisory, telling Americans to avoid all international travel due to coronavirus.Trump directed FEMA to take the lead on the Federal Government’s coronavirus response

    March 20Secretary Azar sent a letter to all 50 Governors that the federal government is buying and making available 200,000 testing swabs
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #109

    May 29, 2020, 12:17 PM
    Trump never followed through; Abe did.
    Wake up. Read Tom's post.

    No one has yet posted what the Japanese did that enabled them to do so well. Take out the typical, predictable anti-Trump rhetoric, and there was basically nothing.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,910, Reputation: 5430
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    #110

    May 29, 2020, 12:20 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Wake up. Read Tom's post.

    No one has yet posted what the Japanese did that enabled them to do so well. Take out the typical, predictable anti-Trump rhetoric, and there was basically nothing.
    YOU wake up! Reread my post #104.

    Heck, I'll repost it here:

    Face masks are not unknown in that country. Touching (handshakes, hugging, kissing, etc.) is not done; instead bowing to each other is the rule. The Japanese I've known are superclean and scrupulous about hygiene.

    From Wikipedia:
    By February 25, they established contact tracing and determined the high-risk environments include 1) closed spaces with poor ventilation; (2) crowded places with many people nearby; and (3) close-contact settings such as close-range conversations.[196]

    To reduce person-to-person contact, the government has instructed the public to refrain from going to high-risk environments (the Three Cs: closed spaces, crowded places, and close-contact settings) and events involving movement between different areas of the country.[197] It emphasized extreme caution when coming in contact with the elderly. The government also promoted such work-style reforms as teleworking and staggering commuting hours, while improving the country's distance learning infrastructure for children.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,247, Reputation: 10853
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    #111

    May 29, 2020, 01:06 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Wake up. Read Tom's post.

    No one has yet posted what the Japanese did that enabled them to do so well. Take out the typical, predictable anti-Trump rhetoric, and there was basically nothing.
    Sorry I forgot you can't read links and forgive me for typing as little as possible given circumstance, but it would seem the Japanese are more experienced and disciplined, in better health and have a far superior health infrastructure with less people. WG referenced the dufus once comparing him to Abe, and should be noted the dufus was delivering lip service while Abe and other leaders were actually doing stuff in coordination with his locals.

    Our state governors were left to their own devices pretty much, so the difference seems to be the coordinated NATIONAL response as opposed to our individual state actions. Comparing any individual state to countries is apple to oranges in this situation. I haven't seen anybody emerge with a great outcome and it's rather early to give out gold stars for success at this point. So far though some have done better than others and everyone is too unique to fairly compare.
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    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #112

    May 29, 2020, 02:48 PM
    The "wake up" referred to your silly assertion that Trump never followed through, an assertion that Tom's post clearly refutes.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
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    #113

    May 29, 2020, 03:10 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    The "wake up" referred to your silly assertion that Trump never followed through, an assertion that Tom's post clearly refutes.
    Nope, Trump hasn't followed through. He's been too busy selling himself and acting like a fool.

    March 22:
    Reporter: "What do you say to Americans who are scared. Nearly 200 dead, 14,000 sick, millions scared."
    Trump: "I say you are a terrible reporter, that's what I say."
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,247, Reputation: 10853
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    #114

    May 29, 2020, 03:12 PM
    Darned federalist ideology...states rule. That's as un-unifying as it gets! Throw in incompetence surrounded by incompetence and here we are.
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    paraclete Posts: 2,705, Reputation: 172
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    #115

    May 29, 2020, 03:41 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Darned federalist ideology...states rule. That's as un-unifying as it gets! throw in incompetence surrounded by incompetence and here we are.
    Now there you have the nub of it, an uncoordinated response
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    talaniman Posts: 54,247, Reputation: 10853
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    #116

    May 29, 2020, 05:30 PM
    Dude is trying to get re elected and stay out of jail, so expect him to swing for the fences any way he can. Give the fool some more happy pills.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #117

    May 29, 2020, 05:56 PM
    Nope, Trump hasn't followed through. He's been too busy selling himself and acting like a fool.
    Really? Well, to repeat.

    January 3 CDC Director Robert Redfield sent an email to the director of the Chinese CDC, George Gao, formally offering to send U.S. experts to China to investigate the coronavirus.
    CDC Director Redfield sent another email to the Chinese CDC Director, George Gao, formally offering to send U.S. experts to China to investigate the coronavirus outbreak,Jan 6 CDC issued a travel notice on Wuhan, China, before any U.S. infection arose.

    Jan 6 CDC issued a travel notice on Wuhan, China, before any U.S. infection arose.

    The CDC established a coronavirus incident management system to better share and respond to information about the virus.


    Jan 17 CDC began enhanced screening for COVID-19 symptoms at three U.S. airports, in San Francisco, Los Angeles and New York's JFK. U.S. infections: Zero.



    Jan 20CDC opened an emergency operations center after one U.S. COVID-19 patient was diagnosed.Dr. Fauci announces the National Institutes of Health is already working on the development of a vaccine for the coronavirus.

    Jan 21 CDC expanded COVID-19 checks to airports in Chicago and Atlanta.CDC activated its emergency operations center to provide ongoing support to the coronavirus response.

    January 21The CDC sought a “special emergency authorization” from the FDA to allow states to use its newly developed coronavirus test.

    Jan 20 Trump tweeted that he made an offer to President Xi Jinping to send experts to China to investigate the coronavirus outbreak.CDC issued a level III travel health notice urging Americans to avoid all nonessential travel to China due to the coronavirus.


    Jan 29 Trump creates the coronavirus task force

    Jan 31One day after the WHO declared COVID-19 a “Public Health Emergency of International Concern,” Trump restricted travel from China. Quid pro Joe this policy “hysterical xenophobia.” CDC began the first mandatory quarantines since the 1960s. Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar declared “a public health emergency in the United States.”

    Feb 2CDC added Honolulu, Seattle and Dulles airports to those already screening travelers from China.

    Feb 4 FDAallowed emergency use of CDC’s COVID-19 test in non-CDC labs. “My administration will take all necessary steps to safeguard our citizens from” COVID-19, Trump said in his State of the Union address.

    Feb 5White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney and Secretary Azar briefed lawmakers on COVID-19. “Several House lawmakers of both parties said the administration has the situation under control,” the Seattle Times reported.







    The House Foreign Affairs Committee held a hearing on “The Wuhan Coronavirus.” This was the first time that either House of Congress addressed this . They were all too preoccupied trying to convict Trump.

    Feb 6CDC began shipping CDC-Developed test kits for the 2019 Coronavirus to U.S. and international labs.


    Feb 9Trump’s Coronavirus Task Force briefed the states' chief executives at the National Governors Association Meeting.

    Feb 11HHS expanded collaboration with Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen Research & Development division to produce a COVID-19 vaccine.

    Feb 12 The U.S. shipped test kits for the 2019 novel coronavirus to approximately 30 countries who lacked the necessary reagents and other materials.

    Feb 14CDC began working with five labs to conduct “community-based influenza surveillance” to study and detect the spread of coronavirus.



    Feb 18
    HHS offered expertise and funds to help Sanofi Pasteur develop a COVID-19 vaccine and treatments.




    Feb 26 Trump assigned VP Mike Pence to lead the administration’s COVID-19 response.

    Feb 24The Trump Administration sent a letter to Congress requesting at least $2.5 billion to help combat the spread of the coronavirus.

    Feb 29FDA let LabCorp, Quest, and other diagnosticians develop COVID-19 tests and liberated states to engage some 2,000 such laboratories. The administration discouraged travel to parts of South Korea and Italy and restricted arrivals from Iran.

    March 3CDC lifted federal restrictions on coronavirus testing to allow any American to be tested for coronavirus, “subject to doctor’s orders.”

    March 4The Trump Administration announced the purchase of approximately 500 million N95 respirators over the next 18 months to respond to the outbreak of the novel coronavirus.Secretary Azar announced that HHS was transferring $35 million to the CDC to help state and local communities that have been impacted most by the coronavirus.



    March 6Trump signed $8.3 billion in COVID-19 response funds approved by both Houses of Congress on March 4 .

    March 10Trump and Pence met with top health insurance companies and secured a commitment to waive co-pays for coronavirus testing.

    March 11 Trump restricts travel from Europe .

    March 13, Trump proclaimed a national emergency, unleashed $42 billion, forgave student-loan interest; deregulated telemedicine, interstate medical practice and the hiring of physicians at hospitals; and persuaded Costco, Walmart and other retailers to launch drive-thru COVID-19 tests. FDA let Roche and Thermo Fisher produce COVID-19 tests.HHS announced funding for the development of two new rapid diagnostic tests, which would be able to detect coronavirus in approximately 1 hour.

    March 15HHS announced it is projected to have 1.9 million COVID-19 tests available in 2,000 labs this week.Google announced a partnership with the Trump Administration to develop a website dedicated to coronavirus education, prevention, & local resources.
    All 50 states were contacted through FEMA to coordinate “federally-supported, state-led efforts” to end coronavirus

    March 16 Trump Announced that the first potential vaccine for coronavirus has entered a phase one trial in a record amount of time. Announced “15 days to slow the spread” coronavirus guidance.The FDA announced it was empowering states to authorize tests developed and used by labs in their states.Asst. Secretary for Health confirmed the availability of 1 million coronavirus tests, and projected 2 million tests available the next week and 5 million the following.

    March 17The Department of Defense announced it will make available to HHS up to five million respirator masks and 2,000 ventilators.

    March 18Trump signed the Families First Coronavirus Response Act, which provides free testing and paid sick leave for workers impacted by the coronavirus.He also temporarily closed the US Canada border to non-essential travel. He also announced that he plansto invoke the Defense Production Act .Also FEMA activated in every region at its highest level of response .The U.S. Navy will deploy USNS Comfort and USNS Mercy hospital ships. All foreclosures and evictions will be suspended for a period of time.HHS temporarily suspended a regulation that prevents doctors from practicing across state lines.

    March 19Pence announced tens of thousands of ventilators have been identified that can be converted to treat patients.The State Department issued a global level 4 health advisory, telling Americans to avoid all international travel due to coronavirus.Trump directed FEMA to take the lead on the Federal Government’s coronavirus response

    March 20Secretary Azar sent a letter to all 50 Governors that the federal government is buying and making available 200,000 testing swabs
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,247, Reputation: 10853
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    #118

    May 29, 2020, 06:39 PM
    All good moves no doubt advised by real experienced experts but let's be clear here, he has deviated from the plan bigtime and at a crucial phase to push this reopening thing when most of the states were far from ready. None have met anywhere close to criteria for further mitigation, as the dufus put those experienced experts on the back burner along with reasonable guide lines for the economic thing he is desperate for. That guarantees more sickness and death and some areas are just getting started with having to deal with this virus.

    Hard to have a healthy economy again when your people are sick and dying. That's just my opinion, of course based on the science and data, but maybe, just maybe we can respond more quickly and efficiently to what I suspect will be more hotspots in the short term, with a larger wave toward years end. Believe it or not I hope the dufus actually knows something I do not, and can pull this off.

    I'd be a fool though, to trust a snake oil salesman in the middle of his pitch. I got masks and toilet paper and will stay hunkered down and social distance even if everybody else says it's fine to come out and play. Traded the popcorn for crackers and added another streaming service.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #119

    May 29, 2020, 06:41 PM
    All good moves no doubt advised by real experienced experts
    At least we can forget the "Trump didn't follow through," assessment.
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    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #120

    May 29, 2020, 06:46 PM
    keep moving the goal posts . The deal was a shut down to flatten the curve so the hospitals would not be over-whelmed . Mission accomplished .We know how to act if a spike occurs . We are well aware of what steps should be taken to protect ourselves and others in the course of our daily affairs .We know who is vulnerable and should be given extra consideration . Time to get back to work America. This shut down is going to cost twice as much in lives lost in health care delayed .

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