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    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #21

    Mar 14, 2020, 03:16 AM
    And why the irrational panic? Because our dear leader hasn't been and still isn't addressing the source of the panic and calming our fears.
    Dear leader ...a phrase associated with Kim Jong il . nice . I guess you concur with Madam Mim that the reelection of Trump poses an existential threat . Talk about hysterics .

    Leadership being like CDC establishing a coronavirus incident management system, on January 7 ;two days before China announced the outbreak ? At that time Madam Mim was in her 3rd week of delaying sending the House Impeachment articles to the Senate .

    Leadership like Jan 21 ,The CDC activated its emergency operations center to provide ongoing support to confront coronavirus. On that day the Dems were
    writing their opening arguments for their bogus impeachment trial.

    Let's talk about the increasingly popular travel bans .As you know ,the President has proposed ,tried and the Dems have found various means ,especially using the judiciary to block travel band from countries that pose a risk to the US. The President intiated a ban on travel from China in January . He announced one from Europe during his Oval office address. What were the Dems doing ? Well they hastily tabled a motion going through the process in the House called 'The No Ban Act' HR2214 trying to strip the President of his constitutional power to control access to the US . and to stop people from coming to this country that pose a threat .

    Meanwhile the Chinese have not been transparent . We have no guarantee that the virus has arched and that business is beginning the return to normal .But that is not unusual . The Chinese are never transparent . When one talks of existential threats Madam Mim should include Chinese theft of our technology ;or even the simple fact that this nation is too dependent on the Chinese supply chain.

    And who has been asking America to rethink that ? Yes Trump has warned us for years prior to his Presidency about having all our eggs in one basket . Everything he has warned us about ...border security ;outsourcing is becoming an undeniable fact .His platform is the right platform. I call that leadership .
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,250, Reputation: 10853
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    #22

    Mar 14, 2020, 03:48 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    it can be traced to a couple of hallucingen using psychology professors . They got together to form the U of Chicago Laboratory school 1894 .
    The purpose of the school was to see what kind of curriculum was needed to produce socialists instead of capitalists, collectivists instead of individualists. The school indoctrinated students from nursery school through 12th
    John Dewey was one of the instructors .
    According to Dewey, education is growth under favorable conditions; the school is the place where those conditions should be regulated scientifically.In other words, if we apply psychology to education, then the ideal classroom is a psych lab and the pupils are laboratory animals. There is much more to it . But you get the idea

    I don't think my peeps went to that school Tom, nor do I know much about this so called progressive indoctrination education you conservatives love to tout as being so bad. I suspect that conservatives feel their value system is being pushed aside and them having no way of stopping it is behind such rhetoric and they could be right, or is it the remnants of the good old fashion class system that put them and their money at the top of the food chain and lends itself to justify the great disdain for the those that don't measure up? If your god is money, then you need money to be god like, so understandable to put profit over people to serve that god. I get that considering the changes we have been through and the challenges we face now, that just don't have a completely conservative, capitalistic solution.

    We have been exposed for the inadequacies of our system and society, and really do need to address them. Not the lest of which is the abject fear that pervades the land and has always been there. Every time something happens it raises it's ugly head and keeps us stuck in memories of better times and everybody has a different better time that gives them comfort I suppose.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,250, Reputation: 10853
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    #23

    Mar 14, 2020, 04:01 AM
    Meanwhile the Chinese have not been transparent . We have no guarantee that the virus has arched and that business is beginning the return to normal .But that is not unusual . The Chinese are never transparent . When one talks of existential threats Madam Mim should include Chinese theft of our technology ;or even the simple fact that this nation is too dependent on the Chinese supply chain.

    And who has been asking America to rethink that ? Yes Trump has warned us for years prior to his Presidency about having all our eggs in one basket . Everything he has warned us about ...border security ;outsourcing is becoming an undeniable fact .His platform is the right platform. I call that leadership .
    King Reagan said TRUST BUT VERIFY, and that's still the best advice because quiet as it's kept the lack of trust and fear cuts both ways with China, and understandable since they have been used by the west before, and have no intention of doing it again, which is why the do what they do against all the rules that WE make up and IMPOSE on them to be fair. Let's separate government interest from BUSINESS interests though, because unlike the Chinese, business and government is the same, we have no such interconnection so we should not mix the business interest with the governments interest. Those are or should be two separate negotiations.

    Hate to break it to you, but all those things the dufus uses as his weapons of fear have been happening for decades and solving them will take more than a big loud stick at the throats of his opponents.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #24

    Mar 14, 2020, 05:42 AM
    The role of the federal government is to provide for the common defense, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, to promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity. Beyond those, each person is supposed to take care of him/her self. It won't work any other way.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,250, Reputation: 10853
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    #25

    Mar 14, 2020, 06:12 AM
    We obviously have different views of the general welfare, which I read as take care of the least and the needy. It doesn't work for me that the definition of general welfare doesn't mean EVERYBODY, nor entitles anyone to make discriminatory laws, practice, or policies that don't guarantee equal protection under the law for EVERYBODY.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #26

    Mar 14, 2020, 06:32 AM
    It doesn't work for me that the definition of general welfare doesn't mean EVERYBODY, nor entitles anyone to make discriminatory laws, practice, or policies that don't guarantee equal protection under the law for EVERYBODY.
    I actually agree with you completely. The difference is in the word "general". The general welfare is that which benefits everyone such as a healthy economy or a highway system. It is taking money from one person to give to another which, in my view, violates this principle. If you are really concerned about the "least and needy" (I'm not convinced you are), then you need to do what many people do and go out and help the least and the needy. Spend your own money and your own time and stop trying to play Robinhood.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,250, Reputation: 10853
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    #27

    Mar 14, 2020, 07:29 AM
    I will admit freely that if I had sufficent time and funds I would get as many people all kinds of help and support, but I worry that many can suffer because of my shortcomings and that's unacceptable so I vote for those that like me see that need being filled by a more reliable source.

    Don't you also worry about the ones you cannot reach that need you?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #28

    Mar 14, 2020, 07:42 AM
    I will admit freely that if I had sufficent time and funds I would get as many people all kinds of help and support, but I worry that many can suffer because of my shortcomings and that's unacceptable so I vote for those that like me see that need being filled by a more reliable source.
    You have some funds and you have some time. Get out and help people. You can't help them all, but you can help some. If every liberal dem who wants the government to help people would go out and help others, then the government would not be needed.


    Don't you also worry about the ones you cannot reach that need you?
    Yes. That's why I keep encouraging you to put your time and money where your vote is.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,250, Reputation: 10853
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    #29

    Mar 14, 2020, 08:46 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    You have some funds and you have some time. Get out and help people. You can't help them all, but you can help some. If every liberal dem who wants the government to help people would go out and help others, then the government would not be needed. Yes. That's why I keep encouraging you to put your time and money where your vote is.
    Glad to see you have a plan that works for you. I'll just keep doing what works for me though, thanks.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #30

    Mar 14, 2020, 11:31 AM
    so I vote for those that like me see that need being filled by a more reliable source.
    from someone else's pocket . How noble !
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #31

    Mar 14, 2020, 12:35 PM
    from someone else's pocket . How noble !
    Exactly.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,250, Reputation: 10853
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    #32

    Mar 14, 2020, 12:40 PM
    Whose pocket? Conservatives are very quick to say the poor takes money from their pockets. Why do conservatives hate the least, the needy, and the poor so much?
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,705, Reputation: 172
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    #33

    Mar 16, 2020, 05:38 PM
    What I don't get is this world wide urge to stimulate economies, now where there is a lock down it might make some sense but stimulating before the impact is really felt, I don't get that. Mass hysteria and this may only last three months, that is all it has lasted in China
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,250, Reputation: 10853
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    #34

    Mar 16, 2020, 06:28 PM
    Simulus seems to be needed to get through the crisis which has already reeked havoc. By the numbers they seem to be incremental as they go rather than one huge package. The burden of states has already gotten alarming so assistance from government is needed immediately. We don't know if China nor Italy for that matter is ready to be callled healed as yet, but no doubt they have done the same infusions of capital along the way themselves. The way it's going China if indeed they are nearing the all clear stage may well have to wait on the rest of the world to catch up, if you take there word for it being over.

    That's a big if in my book.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,705, Reputation: 172
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    #35

    Mar 16, 2020, 07:14 PM
    No they need to get thier economy back on track, we don't know the level of damage yet but we will all feel it incoming months as stocks dwindle
    Vacuum7's Avatar
    Vacuum7 Posts: 47, Reputation: 2
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    #36

    Mar 17, 2020, 06:18 AM
    Need to stop reacting and keep going to work and carry on with normal activities: We don't need to allow a "virus" to put us into a recession or a depression: That is pure stupidity!
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #37

    Mar 17, 2020, 06:54 AM
    Vac, I couldn't agree more.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,705, Reputation: 172
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    #38

    Mar 18, 2020, 11:22 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Vacuum7 View Post
    Need to stop reacting and keep going to work and carry on with normal activities: We don't need to allow a "virus" to put us into a recession or a depression: That is pure stupidity!
    in a sense you are right, there is much stupidity in play, but then we haven't had anything like this in, say, a decade and so the present governments have no experience in dealing with these events. Gone are the days when we would stay the course and wait until tomorrow to make decisions, and the media is to blame, a 24 hour news cycle means politicians are under pressure to have immediate answers. Instead of shutting down the economy the media should have an isolation of 14 days
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #39

    Mar 19, 2020, 04:14 AM
    . Instead of shutting down the economy the media should have an isolation of 14 days
    Great idea!!
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,705, Reputation: 172
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    #40

    Mar 19, 2020, 05:26 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Great idea!!
    yes it is I think I will turn off the news for 14 days

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